They're at it again

[Davis]

I was on Yahoo, checking my stock in Apple, when I saw this: http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/040324/tech_microsoft_eu_21.html

As you can probably tell by my investment choice, I am not a big Microsoft fan. I think they consistantly fail to provide quality, care little about intellegent users, release buggy products, punch security holes in everything, blah blah blah. But this is ridiculous.

I look around each day and see all these small inconviniences the government causes, little laws, stupid things you can\'t do. But it\'s not that bad. On a corperate level, however, everything is different, it seems. What gives the Europeans the right to do this?


It sounds stupid enough when you are reading it, but think about this: Microsoft has released a competitive product, and therefore, they are violating anti-trust laws. Stupid. And being legally obligated to reveal their source code, for \"compatability purposes\", the most secret of trade secrets? They\'ve already been forced to give their competitors confidential information.

Look at this quote from another article:

RealNetworks Inc. (NasdaqNM:RNWK - News), which makes the digital media software at the heart of the EC\'s ruling, applauded the EC decision, with deputy general counsel Dave Stewart calling the decision \"fundamentally significant because the Commission has clearly ruled that Microsoft\'s strategy of bundling Windows Media Player into its software is illegal.\"

Yes. Of course it should be illegal to put your own software in your own operating system. Tomorrow it\'s going to be Pinball.

Only now does it occur to me that Microsoft used to be a great company, and maybe all this interference from various world governments is what has ruined them. Bill Gates had a vision, and he made it reality. Why is everyone so afraid of that?

[KwartzTheKran]

heh, used to be a good company?? Even though Mr.Gates stole the windows design in the first place? lol

[Icefalcon]

Haha are you serious? I never heard that...thats funny

[zabeal]

Originally posted by KwartzTheKran
heh, used to be a good company?? Even though Mr.Gates stole the windows design in the first place? lol

Windows design? Bah, even the founding of misrcosft was from thievery- the first product it sold had source code taken line by line from a printouts bill gates found in a dumpster while at college. That same product was what got microsoft into a deal with IBM to offer software for their new PC, and microsoft got a very lucritive offer for their software which was identical to a competitors, but at a reduced price. The next step was that the OS supplier for the PC dropped out, and microsoft offer they could supply one- if the same contract was extended, which would give them exlusive rights to be the only OS supplier for the PC. They then bought a copy of DR.DOS and repackaged it, and the rest is history.

[KwartzTheKran]

What I said earlier, how it was told in my media class a few years ago;
The first windows style GUI was developed by apple, because of microsofts ties with IBM, at the time the largest of computer companies, the idea was presented to Mr.Gates and Mr.Allen of microsoft, who simply took the idea instead of purchasing it.

[lynx_lupo]

Yes. Of course it should be illegal to put your own software in your own operating system. Tomorrow it\'s going to be Pinball.

It\'s the same as with the browser war. Anything that you put into your OS makes hard time for the competition - a too hard time, so it\'s been banned.

And did you hear that the #$ they\'ll have to pay doubled after the visit of M$s director to some EU institution? Take a guess.

[Monketh]

Originally posted by KwartzTheKran
heh, used to be a good company?? Even though Mr.Gates stole the windows design in the first place? lol

It\'s called: \"Bill Gates is a business genius.\"

Sometimes I wonder if what you Europeans are doing is going to hurt you in the long run.  We\'ll see in a decade or so.

[snow_RAveN]

they just want their small companys to be able to produce a better software than the crap bill gates churns out without loseing invested money

but with out them europeans we wont have welfare services like pension ( so we dont have to keep old people in the house LOL)

[hook]

i ususally don\'t even take a glimpse on MS related topics anywhere, because i think it\'s just a waste of time ...but this time i\'ll make an exception.

MS started off in a garage, and their first breakthrough was that they bought the rights to DOS from a student who wrote it for himself and sold it to IBM for a lot more money then they bought it for.
the first MS DOS was called QDOS - Quick and Dirty Operating System (no shit!) ...and i think they\'ve pretty much reinvented the Q&D bit with the win95+ systems ...but that\'s maybe just me

how did the (MS) Windows(\"tm\") start? ...weeeell, window systems weren\'t new in the IT, but weren\'t really known to the broad market. most people know that Apple had windows that you moved around on the desktop in their operating system, but a few less know that it was actually Xerox that invented the windows.

anyhoo, long story short: i agree that Gates is one of the most successful buisiness men and that his funds may have helped some people, but as a \"computer guy\" i think that MS\' code is sloppy to hell and that their tactics are more then unmoral in most cases ...oh, and let\'s not forget that there\'s only a limited amount of money on this world (that\'s how and why economy works!) - so for every ritcher man there\'s a poorer one somewhere else ...weeeell, in Gates\' example probably a lot more then one -_- ...but just to be fair, he\'s neither the ritchest man (AFAIR) nor is he the biggest arsehole on this world ...but he\'s pretty much high ranking on both :/

[Davis]

And Window\'s windows were not at all like Mac\'s windows. They did not overlap.

[Grakrim]

I take it few of you have seen Pirates of Silicon Valley? Great movie, I definatly recommend it.  Although it was a made for TV movie on TNT years back, so availablity might not be great (although I think there\'s a DVD release, finally).  Shows Gates in his true light, and it doesn\'t cast Jobbs in a favorable light, either.  Its actually quite educational, I think...

Anyway, like all great inventions, the GUI was independantly invented.  However, XEROX PARC has the honor of inventing the first modern GUI and the mouse, both of which Apple got its hands on first.  So, while Apple didn\'t create the GUI, the Mac was the first commerical computer to feature one.  As Hook said, now that I look back...

Microsoft was never a good company in terms of the quality of their products, although MSDOS was passable.  Windows 1.0 is where it all started to go downhill.  Microsoft\'s success only comes in that it was \"first on the scene\", so to say.  Its more of a branding issue than anything else, this is why Linux will never take off as an average-user desktop operating system.

Davis:
And Window\'s windows were not at all like Mac\'s windows. They did not overlap

That\'s a look and feel issue, not to be confused with the concept of a windowing GUI itself, which was quite revolutionary back then.

[Axsyrus]

Only now does it occur to me that Microsoft used to be a great company, and maybe all this interference from various world governments is what has ruined them. Bill Gates had a vision, and he made it reality. Why is everyone so afraid of that?

Whahahahahaha, where the hell did you get that idea?

Here\'s a nice history on both windows and linux, it\'s not even that long, but very informative: some link.. don\'t ask me where I got it


And here\'s what I think is pretty nice quote from vengeance, showing their strategy against OSS applications.

[03:46] <@Vengeance> orogor: You don\'t know M$ very well then
[03:47] <@Vengeance> Step 1) Use open standards
[03:47] <@Vengeance> Step 2) Extend with proprietary features
[03:47] <@Vengeance> Step 3) Withdraw support for standard features
[03:47] <@Vengeance> Step 4) kill market for open version

That should be enough to explain about M$ being a great company I think

[Davis]

You know, Windoze isn\'t their only product. Their stuff used to be worthwhile. Also, there was a time when it was worth it to use Windoze for compatablity...

Now all their products are crap, and you can probably get something for free that\'s better than what you have to pay for to get from them.