Moderation issues

[Morgy]

This is one of the hot topics, if you say the wrong thing it turns out bad for you. Still id like to say a few things about the moderation style of this forum and how i think it could be improved.

I heard more and more complaints lately, about posts or even entire threads, that get deleted/closed for no or no rational reason. At least that is what those people tell me, but i cant really talk about that matter, since i dont know the contens of those posts and threads and i dont know about the reasons the mods had to delete/close them. So the basic problem is: if a post/thread gets deleted/closed, noone knows why the mod did that, just because the mods simply dont tell.
Now here is the salvation of this problem like it is done in some other forums i happen to read occasionally: if a post is abusive,spam, against the rules.... delete the \"politically incorrect\" parts and post why they were deleted instead. Furthermore warn the poster for his behaviour, so that he will be banned for say 3(just a random figure) incorrect posts.
The deletion of threads is another, in my opinion very bad, tool for some mods. Many people think of it as a kind of censorship and once again dont understand why certain threads had to be deleted. This is why this \"solution\" should be used very, very and i mean VERY scarcely. Instead you should rather close the thread, while posting a reasonable explanation as to why it had to be done. Remember most threads contain at least a bit of useful information and should therefore remain.

Those ideas are neither new nor are they mine, but i thought id bring them to your attention, since they seemed to work very well for some other forums.

[Moogie]

Thank you for your input. Let me explain a little about how we operate and why things are the way they are.

The basic purpose of our job is to keep the forums clean and under control. Our forums are not just for fans- many prospective developers and those from other projects (such as Crystal Space) visit them frequently to check out the place and get a feel for the project. We want to create the impression that our community is happy, spam-free, and an all-round friendly place to be.

Now this is the reason for a variety of things. Firstly, we do not tend to give any reason for why something was deleted, locked or edited. Our activities are supposed to be as \'invisible\' as possible. (I do occasionally state that I have deleted or locked something, out of curtesy, but this ultimately tends to end up being bad for me, either by being told not to do it or by a member starting an argument about the decision I made. :rolleyes: ) And that is, of course, why everything we do should be invisible; so there is as little whining, challenging and complaining about things as possible.

What many people don\'t seem to grasp is that we do not delete all posts purely for them breaking some rule. Imagine there is a flamewar going on between a few members in a guild recruitment thread, for example. Some decent, mature person might come along and post \"Ok guys, please stop spamming this thread and take it to PMs.\" This is a very sensible and decent thing to post, however, it will be deleted, along with the rest of the offending flamewar. If you don\'t want your helpful post deleted, just don\'t post- report the thread to a moderator instead and let us deal with it.

The objective here is to make it look like it never happened. But I\'ve seen several people come to us, complaining that their posts were deleted for reasons similar to this example. Although they were not entirely at fault, they were involved in an incident that had to be removed, and they somehow fail to understand that it was necessary to remove their post in order to get the thread back on track.

It is annoying (for me, at least). You may agree or disagree with the way things are done, but in the end, it is you who have to abide by our rules for as long as you wish to remain in this community. If you do not like a decision we make, either come to us and talk maturely with proper reasons and opinions, or go away. We don\'t tolerate members who start complaining or posting insults to the moderators in the forum; this is unecessary, childish behavour and will get you banned, as Kiern is currently an example of.

So basically, the solution is far simpler than you think: It is for everyone to understand the rules and abide by them in the first place- and not complain about the repercussions of their actions afterwards.


[Edit: Just to properly respond to two points in your post: People are frequently warned for their behavour if they are attracting too much mod attention, and threads are already very rarely deleted anyway. ]

[Vengeance]

I\'ll add a couple of points to Mogura\'s excellent post above.

a) Posting explanations of every cleanup takes time--time I don\'t have.  Modding already takes long enough.

b) Posting explanations simply triggers more debate and endless pointless arguments instead of just talking about PS.  It makes it more of an issue of the cleanups instead of less.

c) Explanations also embarrass the people involved.  It is much more dignified if only a few people see your bad post before it disappears and newcomers are none the wiser, than if I put \"deleted for stupidity\" in a bunch of posts.

Hope that helps.  I believe our forums are as good as any forums out there.  I do not believe our mods have any \"agendas,\" \"vendettas,\" or anything else.

Thanks,
Vengeance

[bilbous]

I started to make a new thread but found this one which seemed to fit what I want to post. I inderstand all that has been posted in this thread but sometimes such as for this post too many smilies the moderator will give a reason for making an edit. It was an entirely appropriate edit and I am grateful for the explaination. What I would have liked to have seen was the explaination set apart from my comments such as within a quote. I suggest the quote as there doesn't seem to be another more appropriate tag. I admit that this is nothing too important and offer it only for whatever value it might have.

I am also aware that the moderator is listed as having made the last edit yet someone still managed to replicate the moderators comment within a quote of my text. Of course he also included his own comment within the quote so it was poorly attributed to begin with.

Thank you for your continued efforts.

[eldoth_terevan]

There should be an option to not even show the tagline that indicates an edit was made to a post, in the forum controls. I use that option myself in myBB.
 

[Karyuu]

I'm not sure SMF has that option, eldoth - our old board did, though.

Bilbous - basically you'd like to have moderator comments be unreplicated when someone quotes your post?

[bilbous]

I would just like it to be clearer who said what. As it stands in the example it appears that I made your comment explaining the reason for your edit. An example of how it might have looked follows:

post edited due to example infraction

That way if the moderator comments are replicated they are still properly attributed, or at least have the chance to be. It is still possible they will be mislaid but it will be clear who made them in the first place. Again if it is a choice between something like this and the occasional helpful comment I prefer the comment. It is just a suggestion.

[Karyuu]

I usually add my name at the end of edited comments - I do drop it sometimes however if I know the individual and know that they'll know where the edit came from, but I understand how confusing it can get in quotes, so I will keep a 'signature' on there from now on. Will that work?

[bilbous]

Ok.
 I know how time consuming it must be to moderate these forums. I would not like to do it as it would mean reading threads of no interest to me. Hopefully your interests are broader so that you do not find it as much of a chore as I would. Maybe a moderator smiley could be designed but there would have to be a way to restrict its use from the general public. That might make it problematic. Just spinning off on a wild tangent now.

Thanks for your reply.