slicker NPC communication

[Crj]

NOOOOOO!
Its good the way it is!
I love this system!
Yes, its much harder, but more fun at the same time. You have to think it out yourself not just click on some options. It gives a bigger variety. Not just kill this and bring me that quests! Or fine the murderer quests are ussualy too easy... you just go there talk to him (click 5 clicks) fight him and quest compleated.
The first quest was very fun! Too bad its not solvable right now With clicking it would suck, because there would be no challange. The second quest isnt relay hard...

[hook]

Originally posted by zinder
AFAIK the system the devs use can produce fairly believealbe  behavior. If im not mistaken they use a approach similar to this guys http://www.alicebot.org/index.html
Try it out.
It depends mainly on the size of the patternbase. And im sure it will impove greatly over the time for PS. Ie the more you try, the more examples the devs will get, how one can ask the question. Those the devs find correct, will be added as patterns to trigger the answer. In result each iteration of the NPCs will get better.
 So in 25 years, even in 5, this system will be very good. Im pretty sure it wont be a simulation of the human brain, but it dont need to. It is enough if it can simulate the talking behavior of a human for a limited number of themes.

yea, i think that\'s close to what\'s used in PS ...an almost self-learning system - the more you try to talk to it, the more possibilities it remembers, the more it understands ...the only thing is that, AFAIR, the devs don\'t change the AI untill the PS version jump - i wouldn\'t be surprised if the NPC AI in the CVS is a lot better then the one we\'re used to.

[derwoodly]

Nice to see your posts again Abemore.

This time I have to disagree with you Abe.  The point and click definately has advantages.  From a pure \"gaming\" stand point the menu options are the way to go.  It is easier to code and severly cuts down on the players frustration.  Shadowbane has the drop down menus, and as I remember DAoC has them as well.  You would like it.  BUT! quests are non-existent.  It does nothing for roleplay.  Query language gets better all the time.   I don\'t think NPC\'s will ever be so smart as to fool you in thinking that your talking to a human, but they could be made good enough.

As a compromise, NPC\'s should have a help function.  Typing, help me, or I need help, or any thing like that should have the NPC give you a speach on how you can talk to it.

As I understand it, the PS game will be aimed at the roleplay crowd.  Trying to pick up the EQ players that got bored with it because it was not geeky enough.  Most of the new MMORPG\'s are trying to make their games more flashy and faster paced.  They most likely will all have drop down menus.  PS can be different and use the retro text based style with a new AI.

[Yalzin]

I think thats a good idea derwoodly. People would find it easier to find what to type if there was some sort of help on the subject. I still favour the quicker menu-based communication, but if typing is going to stay it\'s going to have to be made more user-friendly. Maybe an auto-complete function that helps you choose which verbs etc to use. Anything to prevent people from having to type hundreds of sentences to find the right one.

The NPC AI would only be updated every version release (unless there was an update function for the program files) and so it would make the NPC s incapable of learning anything until they are updated in the next release. And I don\'t think it would be possible for the devs to go through every single line of people\'s typing that didn\'t produce a result, there would be just too much.

Maybe this typing way of communication appeals more to the \"hard-core\" RPG fans, but for me it\'s just an unecessary complication that doesn\'t add at all to the playing experience.

[Abemore]

Well put derwoodly (good to see your posts as well).
Thanks for the fresh perspective.

How could I have been so closed-minded as to have not seen the \"gameplay\" vs \"roleplay\" viewpoints.  Roleplayers want to type to NPC\'s for better immersion, where as gamers would rather just click through conversations and get to the gameplay.

This also explains why we all can\'t agree on this.
Thanks derwoodly.  I probably would not have seen this if not for your post.

[Xanaroth]

but still, i rather click \'n talk instead of typing. Not only because it is easier. If you want to ask (like said before) about the weather or so, it will always have to be implemented first, wheter you type yourself or you click. Only real difference between clicking or typing is that typing costs you more time. And really, what do you prefer more: typing typing or clicking and still have time for the game.

[hook]

typing, enjoying the role-playing AND having time to enjoy the game :]

*grunt* i knew all this clicky-pictures, rodents and \"idiot-friendliness\" will spoil our youth! *grummble* ...in MY days, we used to play MUDs and adventures with pictures you couldn\'t click!! and sometimes you didn\'t even have pictures! ...you had to type your way around! ...AND we enjoyed it!!!

some of these legends:
leisure suit larry
zork
a great number of MUDs
alice in wonderland
cave
...

> move north
> move west
> open door
> show finger to the salesperson
> shut door
> move west
> open fridge
> get cake
> eat cake

[Yalzin]

leisure suite larry?? Now that definately had pictures !!

There definately does seem to be a difference in opinion between those of us who prefer the actual gameplay and those who love the immersion and atmosphere. I like to think I like a bit of both, but on this I\'m definately with the \"get the npc communication over with so you can get onto the more interesting stuff\" crowd.

[hook]

Originally posted by Yalzin
leisure suite larry?? Now that definately had pictures !!

it depends on if you played the first versions of LSL 1-3 or the remade ones :]

larry1 had CGI graphics (mostly white on black) and was purely controlled by typing in commands - what you may think of is the later VGA-remake of the larry1
larry2 (and 3) had already VGA but were still mainly controlled by typing - but you could already move larry around with the mouse

...but the main idea is in the TYPING, not NOT-HAVING GRAPHICS
even the first king\'s quests and space quests had graphics, but you had to type your way through

[slabertooch]

Heres an old Typie, Leather Goddesses of Phebos, nothing like going though that \"Change in Life\" *wink wink*  and having a sex filled typing adventure to fill the mind\'s eye.  Also another good one was Hitchhiker\'s Guide to the Galaxy.

[Yalzin]

Hmm so what your saying is that we should all be forced to type because of the nostalgia for the old typing games. I\'m sure if there had been other ways around at the time many of these games would have used better menu based systems instead. I think we shouldn\'t dwell on games of the past and look to the future and use more slick and modern methods of communicating with the program. Typing is sadly not very practical.

[Abemore]

No.  Once again, typing to NPC\'s is for roleplaying.

You and I see it as needlessly wasting our time and energy because we are not roleplayers.
We like efficient well designed games.
Roleplayers like roleplaying, regardless of its efficiency or practicality.

Your arguments are valid, but wasted, because this game is being made by roleplayers for roleplayers.

[Icefalcon]

I couldn\'t agree with you more Abemore, but also, typing could give you many more options than just a list to choose from. I like it because it makes you think about what you are typing, part of the quest is talking to NPCs. Like Abemore said, its all roleplaying. You hack-n-slash types can got play runescape if you dont want to roleplay in Planeshift.

[hook]

look, guys ...we have nothing against you (personally or otherwise) ...it\'s just that this world IS lacking a good true roleplaying game ...and, now that we have it, we won\'t give it up ...we\'re not trying to take over the world or anything ...just let our role playing game stay a role playing one ...pretty please ...and we promise we won\'t go and try change Ragnarok, Lineage or Diablo into a true RPG :]

[Xanaroth]

looks like we are not getting out of this... so how about a poll??