implementing common sense

[Icefalcon]

Yes, I totally agree with you, I hate games where you have the one \"uber-sword\" that is the best, then you have \"lesser\" weapons like maces, spears, and axes which are basically worthless since everyone would rather use the most powerful weapon.

[SaintNuclear]

I like Samoth\'s idea. We should get experiance on each type of attack. E.g. If you slash monsters alot with a sword \\ axe, your attacks are better and better with it.

That\'s how all skills should be gained, not by experiance that goes up and than you can raise your skills, but they should go up from real experiance.

[sashok]

hmmm i kinda like that idea too samoth

[Xanaroth]

same here, i really think this should be implemented in the game. maby not totally to keep things easy, but at least some of it.

[Turkenlukz]

the skill level, would also help to limit the level at which people power level

[sashok]

well i really like the idea. as you mentioned powerleveling.  it would be impossible with this method i and samoth introduced.

All creeps and players would have certain defences against certain type of weapons and skills atrributed to those weapons.  So, fortunatelly, if this gets implemented, there would NOT be certain people, even if they are lvl 100, who can take on anyone with their sword, axe, etc..  Since their expertise would be axe or sword and if a monster or player has really good defense against axe or sword, they would have good chance against even such strong opponent.  I really like this idea.

Now, let\'s look at how one could develop weapon skills.
I think that it should take loads of time training a weapon skill.  This would be good to limit people to one or two skills per game.  
Wether it can be what kind of monsters you kill(their lvl) or just constant use of weapons, you would get experience just for the type of weapon you have.

Weapons have skills like samoth said, slash/stab/bash.  So lots of weapons would fall into category of slash or stab, numerous weapons would and depending on your skill with stab/slash/bash, it would refect how good you would hit the monster/player.

Ok another issue.  Should stab/bash/slash only increase attacking power of the player using the weapon?
I think it should be more than that.  The speed, chance of successful hit, and attack power should increase when player has increased his stab/bash/slash skill.

But that\'s the thing again, only when a player equipps a weapon for his weapon skill, then and only then he would have the benefit of attack power, speed increase, more hit chance...

Ok, so what do you think?

[Xanaroth]

i think this is something where experience you can get per monster would come in handy. That way if you defeat a monster you get a ammount of exp. All or some of this will go to you wep skill (depending of skill and wep ur using) and if you reach enough you get 1% extra, all the way up to 100%.

Tough i cant really figure out why this would stop powerleveling, since you can keep on training with all weapons, no matter how strong you are, and eventually still be able to reach max. compability with all weapons, against all weapons.

[Entamis]

About powerleveling. Maybe it should be done that after certain skill level you have to train only with that weapon type, otherwise the skill won\'t go up. I mean you can get to medium level with every weapon, but if you want to be expert of one type you have to stop training with others.

[SaintNuclear]

But what if you decide to switch your main weapon to another type? You\'ll be stuck with a max of medium level.


How about zero-sum?
You can get alot of exp in a certain weapon by using it alot (fighting, training) until a certain point.
As you use another type of weapon, your experiance in the first weapon goes down.
Some players will go high-end on a certain weapon, and almost no exp (or literally no exp) in other weapons.
Some will have one weapon strong, while others are so-so.
Some will go completely all-round, so they\'ll be good with every type of weapon, but not masters.

This will stop powerleveling, because although the player is really strong in this one weapon, what if he\'s in need of using another type to beat you? Those all-rounders, they might be able to use any type of weapon against you and be pretty good at it, but it\'ll still be kinda low.

Also, this won\'t be irreversable. If you don\'t like using that weapon type you\'re using now, just train and use the other type until you reached the level you want.

[sashok]

yes yes, bunch of questions comes up  and some things have to be clarified.

Well I\'m glad you guys agree with the first idea, but the samoths idea is a bit shaky because it involves lvling of some sort.  

Well I strongly believe an RP HAS to have some kind of experience gain, even if it\'s not straight character leveling.  If you all believe that players will just sit at spawn spots and kill monsters... you might be right, but that can be cured with changing the main attention of the game. If a newb comes to play for first time and he sees everyone litterally sitting at spawns and killing mosters, he will do same.. But if the first things he learns is that this game is quest based.. well who knows... but anyway, I think i\'m bit off topic here.

How to make weapon leveling both rewarding, but not the main attention of the game?
The point is to take away the concentration from the weapon leveling and make players forget about it.  Let\'s look first at what benefits the % of weapon improvement will bring:
This is just an example, and can be used of course:
All players start out with 0%
On the first %
+2 attack power
+3% defense increase(blocking with weapon)

then second percent gives you:
+3% increase attack speed
+4 attack power

third :
+4% increase attack speed
+5 increase attack power
+3% defense increase(blocking with weapon)
 
So ok.. how to make players forget about the % increase and focus on something else.
I believe that the way to do this is to slow the leveling process down to unbearable and hear me out now.
The last 100%  will be achieved through 1 year of playing this game, where player plays 1-2 hours a day and uses one type of weapon.
  Also the first percent  should come just as slow as 100th one, The only difference is that stronger monsters have to be fought to move up higher %s.

Why so slow?  Well because if it was fast, people would want to get it done really quick and have uber strong weapons and THEN go onto quests, or do same thing with many different weapons and not have to worry about finding friends with different type of weapons.

   But if they see that this process is slow and it  takes a week to raise even 1 %.. players will be at first faced with dissapointment, and think that this is unneeded feature and NOT focus on this.
but maybe later this will grow into future goals for many..
With the % moving up so slowly, players will not worry about keeping same weapon, and the majority of players WILL in fact have only 3-5% over most weapons, and that is fine, but very dedicated ones will perfect only certain types of weapons.
Well I\'m not a psychologist, (although I find this field interesting at times), and I cannot predict how \"most\" people will react, but what do  you think?


So what will be the final outcome.. the 100%.. WELL, I think it shouldn\'t be anything fancy, anything rediculously powering.  But would show a significant improvement, just like in real life experience.  (the more you use certain type of weapon, they more you get experienced.)

 This is just example, but I would propose something close to this

+45% attack speed with weapon type
+60 attack power with weapon type
+25% increase in blocking with weapon type

Well there I go again, writing a book again.. anyway, what u think?

[SaintNuclear]

Originally posted by sashok20
The last 100%  will be achieved through 1 year of playing this game, where player plays 1-2 hours a day and uses one type of weapon.
  Also the first percent  should come just as slow as 100th one

According to you, to advance from level 0 in a certain weapon to level 1 will take 1 year of playing 1-2 hours \\ day?! 8o
If you play 8 hours \\ day (something that many consider impossible) it\'ll take you (/me calculates) 91.25 days, just to reach level 1 in your weapon! 8o

And let\'s presume someone is so die-hard that he\'ll manage to go up to level 100 in every type of weapon, he won\'t need any friends with diffrent types of weapons (something that I think you try to avoid).


With my zero-sum idea, you can\'t possibly reach level 100 in every weapon, not because it\'ll take a long time, but because you simply won\'t be able to do it. So there won\'t be any \'uber players\'

[Entamis]

I like your idea, Saint. I\'d add that when you don\'t train in some time (counting only online-time) the skills will go down (but only with high skills, you\'ll always keep the basic abilities). It would enforce characters to train regularly. Not necessarily much, but regularly.

[SaintNuclear]

I agree that you\'ll have to train a bit to maintain skills at their current position, but it shouldn\'t be too drastic. It would really suck to have to spend 30 mins each day just to keep your skills from going down.

[sashok]

noo, it would take a year of everyday playing to get lvl 100..  that\'s waht i meant by 100%

well i just read your zero-sum idea... it\'s not bad, can definately work.
I also like the aspect of rl in it.  In rl if you don\'t train in something, your skills fade away.  I see the resemblence here with zerosum

[SaintNuclear]

Well, I agree that it should take alot of time to be a master with a certain weapon, but it should be the same with magic.

Since I\'m not sure how this whole magic thing will be, I can\'t really give any suggestions, but I think that skilling in it should be harder than skilling in weapons (any magic with fire is stronger then a strike of a sword, because it stays and burns, and I won\'t even go to how nasty sleep spells are : \\). It should be similar to the weapons skilling though.
So if the zero-sum idea is used, it should go more or less like this with magic, only a bit harder to gain skill.