Symbiotic Creatures

[Wormtail_]

As the discussion in the Parasites   thread diverged to a discussion of symbiotic creatures... I shall create a new thread on symbiotic creatures. The full discussion is in the link above.

The discussion, in short, decided that symbiotic creatures would give something to the player (boost stats, give blood special attributes, improve resistance to poison/magic/etc., etc.) in return for a stat(HP, mana, stamina). Symbionts would only pay in return for payment, and in combat, only retaliate when hit by anything such as the host. Also, characters could be able to support as many symbionts as their \'mana/HP/stamina income\' allows for. Or if the weight pulls them down.

If the host dies, the symbiont could wander away from the hsot or consume the host\'s body. The symbiont, as stated before, will not attack another creature for the host - that job is reserved for a familiar.

Speaking of familiars, the main difference between symbionts and familiars is that symbionts improve your own stats, and the familiar is just a companion. Empathy could be used to communicate with the symbiont, I suppose, but am not too sure about that.

Symbionts can be located in several regional areas or shops.

Comments?

[SaintNuclear]

I think this should be defined a bit more. Are you talking about creatures in sizes of leeches and stuff that can change your stats, or microbiotic creatures?
If you\'re talking about leech-sized creatures, I really can\'t see how they can raise your strength.
But if you\'re talking about microbiotic creatures, they can\'t really put much weight on you...

But I think it\'s getting too complicated. Poison, ok, magic, ok, alchemy, ok. But parasites? Symbiotic creatures? You guys are going way out of hand here.

[Wormtail_]

The symbionts vary in size, although a specific size range has not yet exactly been established. Symbiotic creatures could, of course, be magical in some way to raise strength. Microorganism-sized creatures might be impossible to capture, so the idea of giving blood special attributes might be eliminated... Unless a  symbiont similar to a leech \'manufacuters\' blood. I am operating on pure creativity here, so realism might as well have been thrown down the drain. Oh, and I do realize there are symbiotic relationships in RL, but I do not think that existing sentient beings have formed a symbiotic relationship. What I proposed is for sentient beings - characters - to form symbiotic relationships with other organisms.

I do not see how symbionts are \'out of hand.\' Parasites have been declared too similar in effect to poison, but symbionts do not, from my knowledge, have an effect similar to other things ingame. It is original, to my knowledge. They are merely another kind of creature that you don\'t have to kill in order for advantage, other kinds being NPCs (eheh), mounts, and a few others. Additional creatures cannot be harmful.

[SaintNuclear]

When I say it\'s out of hand, I don\'t mean that you can\'t find creative ways of how it could work. You could say \"it\'s magic\" and it\'d be enough in a fantasy world. What I mean is the implemention. How exactly is this thing going to be implemented in the game? It\'ll be too cumbersome.

It\'s a nice idea, it\'s creative and original, but I don\'t think it can be implemented in the game without too much fuss from both sides - the developers, and the players.

[tybrus]

I like the idea of having symibonts, however the use of symbionts should be rare and extremely difficult to achieve.  
IMO the best way to actually use symbionts ingame would be to associate them with a cult like group or a feared religious sect.  A group that was never before been known in the world suddenly appeared and began a great war.  These people were extremely powerful due to their use of the symbionts, and they were defeated only because the opposing forces used the symbionts as well.  
A story alongs these lines would be an excellent way to explain the symbionts existance in the world.

The way your are describing the symbionts is as draining a small amount of HP, MP, etc. to give you a bonus to some ressitance, magic damage, etc.  I think that the symbionts should be creatures that \"share\" the life force of the player.  They should be creatures that were brought from another plane and are unable to survive in the PS world unless they attach themselves to a person.  The symbionts then give a bonus because they understand that if the person they are attached to dies, they will die as well.

[Wormtail_]

Well, unless a developer comes here and states explicitly that this idea is far too difficult to implement, then we\'ll just expand on this idea. And all it is, I think (I have no experience with programming, so I would not know) is a creature on a character that slows down some production and adds to another type or gives some sort of special, unique ability. Of course, when it comes down to death... Well, we could use tybrus\' idea and have the symbiont die as well, to make things simpler.

Rare symbionts would be a limiting factor, which would be a plus, I suppose... Or extremely expensive. Or both.

As for cult using symbionts... Well, I\'d say that extremely powerful beings is somewhat out of my thinking. I believe that the symbionts just give and take one thing, nothing else, and that only to a moderate extent at the most. And they could exist just because of a creature just deciding to bond with another, and thus the symbiotic relationship was formed. In PS. Just my thoughts, though. But how would the religious cult have obtained their symbionts, though?

[tybrus]

My thought:
In the distant past a powerful group of dark mages opened a portal to a previously undiscovered plane.  Upon passing through the portal, they found a species of creatures with amazing magicla abilities.  Thinking that these docile creatures could be used as powerful weapons of war, they returned with them to the world of PS.  However, when they returned they discovered that the creatures could survive no more than a few days in the world.
To solve this issue the creatures would form a sybiontic bond with a being of this plane and share their life force and enabling them to survive.  When in this symbiosis the creature are in a form of stasis where their magical properties are greatly reduced, however the remaining percentage of their \"abilities\" is passed onto the being in which they share the symbiosis.

Then the story can turn in any number of ways to explain the existance of many of the symbionts.

[Xelex]

I think it would be better if we had parasites instead of symbiotes. Afterall I think it would be more better if you can actually see the think about to harm you. Maybe it should be about the size of a Scarab. I have a picture of one I made in Wings3D expect it to be in the Fan Art section tomorrow. If you like what you here click on the parasite link on the top of the page and look for my posts.

[Wormtail_]

Endoparasites would be difficult to implement, and scarab-size ectoparasites would be somewhat easy to pick off, I think... Then again, I would not know the actual size of a scarab, as they don\'t exist, except in Age of Mythology, in which case they\'re the size of two houses... Really, the discussion in the Parasites thread pretty much covers why most people dislike the idea of parasites.

As for the story... Where does it take place? The surface of the PS world, or Yliakum? Or somewhere in the Stone Labryniths, or somewhere else entirely? If on the surface, symbionts wouldn\'t be that much help. It will be a looooong time before anyone met a symbiont. If in Yliakum why doesn\'t some other group notice the portals? If in the Labryniths, it would make perfect sense, other than the slight factor of the war... Where in history does it take place, and who is involved?

According to the Setting page, the races other than the Kran and Lemur were transported from other worlds. Perhaps the symbionts could be creatures that somehow \'hitched a ride\' or sneaked through, and entered the PS world. Now comes the combining of life forces, except some do it with sentient beings, probably in secret, and others with creatures of the Stone Labryniths.

[Samoth]

Maybe some of the NPC software can be used to handle the communication between the symbiant and the host.

When the symbiant first attaches to the host the stat changes could occur.  Maybe a small physical change would allow others to recognize an active host.  A lump or color change on the host.

But there should be a big risk for using a symbiotic creatures ... say the player looses conciousness and goes to 0 HP from shock if the symbiant dies.  Or the player fatigues extreemly fast.

That way only the most desparate or radical would partake of this type of stat boost.

[Asraniel]

The idea is great.

This creatures should be small, half of the size of a football. They should be slimy, no real form, like a blob (can i say that?)

Every kind of thos creatures should have a different color, so we always know what they do.

This would also explain how they work. In the real world they are little helpless creatures normaly lying somewere on the ground, hiding from danger. They are somewhat magic, because, they dont realy have a body..

They are in the consistent form when they are lying around, but as soon as they get in the body of someone they get diluet (?) and become part of the blood of this person.


If you dont understand what im talking about, i can try to reexplain it with other words

[ShadowFish]

plus people cant really open the portals themselves especially if the two gods never had the power to do that in the first place.... the symbyoints would have had to come on another races back or something and spread through the cave or something there should be several different types with different appearances and abilities

[Wormtail_]

I agree with having the use of symbionts be risky. It makes the idea of having a magical bond more feasible, and discourages the use of too many symbionts. Perhaps the character would be extremely shocked, and depending on the character\'s endurance, could fall unconsicous, be temporarily disabled, and thing along those lines.

Symbionts could, perhaps, be divided into two major types. Solid and liquid. Liquid is basically what Asraniel described, where the symbionts are just \'blobs.\' Perhaps those creatures are more difficult to find, as they are experts at hiding, yet have more unique advantages to offer. Solid are those that dwell visibly on the host\'s skin, and are more easily found and killed/captured.

Speaking of capturing, should characters be able to pull a symbiont off another and capture it? Or monsters, for that matter?