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[Ionas]

Originally posted by acraig
In a more organized structure this is possible.  At one company I worked at you had to have a peer review before you checked in any code.  This makes sense in a well organized company where you can walk down to the next office and ask for a review and have it in a few minutes.  As you can imagine this is not really an option for PS.  However, if we try to get into the habbit of fully documenting stuff as we commit the documentation will get better.

Why wouldnt it also work for PS? The points Fextina made are correct and especially in an open source project usefull. Since creating documentation about the structure of the software makes it more flexible and easier to add to it. So someone who wants to help in the project can learn the code quicker.
Of course its hard to have the programmers make documentation but the general structure thats thougt up can be documented by the leaders of the project and of those of the groups.
Another advantage of this is that it gives a better understanding of the structure and its flaws so better quality can be acquired by having a well developed structure.

Maybe this is already done? I don\'t know, but this is just my humble opinion.

[kronon]

To begin with I don\'t know what 2014 means.
The amount of classes that some one posted, is at least 2 times less, so the amount of classes is INDEAD lesser.
Also I\'m 19 and know very well how to program thank you. When you want to go mud throwing do it some where else please. It\'s so easy to say, ow he doesn\'t agree with me so he must be stopid.
The other thing is that, you don\'t even have to be a \"great\" programmer  to know that a program needs structure, cs is bloated and slow because it lacks that. CS will never be nearly so good as the ut(unreal) engine.

A pitty that no one takes the trouble to realy look at what I have been saying. Mud throwing is the easiest thing to do, bo it won\'t come to the good of this project. But you all probably know better right? Specialy non dev\'s who tell me how wrong I am.

[Cirque]

By mud slinging do you mean being in a state of denial and attacking the people spotting the problems rather than acknowledging they exist?

[tangerine]

Originally posted by Cirque
It would be a shame if some of the points raised are infact true and people are being stubborn. It would be more constructive to accept the faults and work on them.

Were we really that stubborn ? We can accept our faults and we did. What we didn\'t accept was clueless bashing of PS and CS.

[tangerine]

Originally posted by kronon
Also I\'m 19 and know very well how to program thank you.

If you think that programming PS is \"nearly imposible\", I don\'t think you can program so well.

Originally posted by kronon
When you want to go mud throwing do it some where else please.

Well you come here saying that PS code structure makes programming impossible, that CS is a \"nightmare\", that CB will probably never be released, that PS should be rewritten from scratch, and other \"qualified\" assesments of situation and you are wondering that many people don\'t like you and don\'t take you seriously ? Yes you did raise valid points, but in general it was mostly hogwash.

Originally posted by kronon
CS will never be nearly so good as the ut(unreal) engine.

Wow, who would have thought that engine done by a few volunteers in their spare time won\'t be as good as Unreal ? Thank you Kronon for telling us

[Cirque]

Originally posted by tangerine

Originally posted by Cirque
It would be a shame if some of the points raised are infact true and people are being stubborn. It would be more constructive to accept the faults and work on them.

Were we really that stubborn ? We can accept our faults and we did. What we didn\'t accept was clueless bashing of PS and CS.

Thanks for confirming that your being stubborn.

The reason I say that is because I never once accused anyone of being stubborn. I simply stated that it would be a shame if that was the case.

[Vengeance]

In fact we do have some documentation.  We mostly keep it to ourselves though.  Here is one example (work in progress) doc which may explain some things to those of you who need to get your bearings in the code.

http://www.paqrat.com/planeshift/IntrotoPlaneShift.ppt

- Venge

[tygerwilde]

19??? Yeah, uh huh, You have LOADS of experience and know better than any programmer out there [/sarcasm]

A pitty that no one takes the trouble to realy look at what I have been saying

seems to me that I have seen some of the programmers directly shooting down your arguments about the engine. if they can do that, they must have read your posts here... try again man.

Oh, and as far as I\'d heard the unreal engine wasn\'t open sourced, though I might be mistaken...

When you want to go mud throwing do it some where else please. It\'s so easy to say, ow he doesn\'t agree with me so he must be stopid.

hey man, this entire THREAD is about mud-slinging, and you know it. you were the one throwing the first handful when you started telling everyone that this is just a doomed project.

tell me, if it was impossible to code with CS, would they have managed to create MB??? Somehow I doubt it. Now with that one statement, I have proven that the first claim you made was false. if you\'re going to make accusations about the team or engine, try to show some proof.

I have a lot of respect for these people, nobody else seems interested in making a 3d MMO for absolutely no profit. And I haven\'t seen anything but a respectful attitude come out of any of the devs or programmers. so don\'t give them any ****.

[tygerwilde]

P.S. try to watch your spelling, four misspellings in two quotes might actually lead to the assumption that you are stupid. I don\'t believe you are, just that you are young rash and egotistical.

[Cirque]

Was only a matter of time before someone had a go at his age. Im sure theres people on these forums that are younger than 19 and you would think they are mature age adults and vice versa.

[jorrit]

Many people are ignoring a very important thing when they say that Crystal Space is a monster. There are indeed a huge number of classes and source files but that really doesn\'t matter because those classes are cleanly divided in seperate plugins. These plugins are really independent from each other (there are only links between them through the contracts they publish, i.e. interfaces). For example, the sound plugins are COMPLETELY independend from the engine plugin. You can even physically remove the sound plugins from the Crystal Space source directory and CS will still work and compile (the build system will adapt automatically). The same goes for all other plugins.

So you should not say that CS is one huge monster. CS is a collection of small modular plugins. Don\'t let the huge number of classes overwhelm you. That really does not matter. Look at CS as a collection of smaller subprojects that all (in one way or the other) interact with each other.

As to CS being designed with a software renderer in mind that used to be true in the past. But it is no longer true. The new renderer design (which is what the next release of PlaneShift will use) is fully designed with 3D hardware in mind and makes full use of shaders and other advanced 3D stuff. The software renderer is still being ported but it is now considered secondary and the priority is a lot lower. We also will not attempt to port all features to the software renderer. Just enough so that the people who depend on that renderer (and there still are a lot) are happy and can remain using CS.

Greetings,

[CorDharel]

Hi all!

I followed your discussion very well and it\'s really interesting. The first post scared me (comments like the game is not good programmed and other thingies). But I now see that it\'s not as bad as I expected (uhm I mean I hope so)

I myself am right now in a developer apprenticeshipment, and I would love to code for PS. But I know that I am too bad in it. I also know that I am now disturbing the current discussion, but the previous one about learing how to code made me asking if the experienced coders could give a little bit of information or tips for beginners or advanced. You never know if you could be helpful for the project or if you have to learn more.

For example if I am learning the right stuff. I can already program well in VB and I know all this stuff about IFs FORs etc. I also know the technique of objectoriented programming. I also am able to code in C. I am learning C++ right now (C# is only for windows? OMG...). I saw that I learn things fast if I just start MS visual studio and load up a sample project. Then I change some things, try to add new things and want to understand the code.
Do you think this is a good way to learn?

I hope we can continue both discussions, about CS/PS and the programming theme.

BTW: I won\'t propose C++ in 21 days... the fordummies series are much better IMO.

Greetz CorDharel

[tygerwilde]

you see cirque, it\'s not that youth is a bad thing. it\'s his attitude about being 19. There was a time when being 19, you were experienced in the field, everyone older was raised when programming wasn\'t a known art. but now, if you\'re 19, you\'re comparitively just starting out in the field.

[Levski]

but now, if you\'re 19, you\'re comparitively just starting out in the field.

 ?(

The school district in my neighborhood offers teaching C++ code in middle school (7th grade).  That means that if you pick it up then and keep at it for 7 years for you to get to 19 years old, you might get pretty darn good at it.

BTW: I won\'t propose C++ in 21 days... the fordummies series are much better IMO.

Why not?  I find it a really easy and thorough book!  Besides, I am way to far into it to switch books   .  I just have to figure out some way to make sure I don\'t forget all of this stuff 6 months down the road...

[XpYtZ]

?Might be? being the operative part of the statement. Knowledge is no substitute for skill. I, for instance, know how to do a crap load of stuff in Photo shop and Lightwave. Does that make me proficient and skillful in them? Hell no. If I was I would have tried to join the team when I first heard about the project?Well ok no that is wrong I wouldn?t by nature. But I would have got into a while ago.
I?ll freely admit that its not the cleanest structure ever but the code doesn?t look that bad, it aint textbook, but its not as bad as all that.

?forget all the stuff 6 months down the road.

Tell me about it.