Author Topic: Reputations  (Read 706 times)

Eneji

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Reputations
« on: May 20, 2004, 10:36:15 pm »
I thought I might throw another idea of mine up in the air, just to see what you all think. ;)
This idea is a lot more complex than my character creation idea, and would probably again cause lag, but still, let?s see what you guys think. :D

I personally, do not picture Planeshift as being just another ?hack and slash? game, and I am not really much as a person for combat myself. To me, there are enough games out there, where all you do is kill monsters, that destroy the idea of actual roleplaying, so here is my idea to prevent this from happening.

The idea?

There is one game I use to play called Freelancer. It was a 3d ship game where you have a whole bunch of different Computer-controlled groups of enemies, similar the guild system here in Planeshift. Basically, if you did missions for 1 group, you would make that group become more friendly towards you. If you attacked that group, they would become more hostile towards you. You would earn a reputation within that game that would control how certain groups would react to you.

What if there was a similar reputation system inside Planeshift? Not necessarily between the NPC characters and you, but more between everyone in the game?

Question: So how would this work?

Basically, each individual player would have their own reputation screen as to who they are friendly with, who they are hostile towards, and who they are neutral with. Any player which you have not met (or have not established any reputation with whatsoever) will not be shown.

Optionally, you could make it so that you could see other people?s feelings toward you as well, although, you don?t usually know what your neighbour thinks of you in real life, so personally I like the idea of feelings being hidden unless if there is an obvious hostility involved. You could also make the option of yourself allowing certain people to see your feelings towards them, but I just thought of that as I?m writing this so I won?t go further with that at this time.

Question: How would reputations with certain people be triggered?

In real life, you don?t usually immediately become hostile to a person unless if some event occurs which triggers this. So in the game, you wouldn?t be able to immediately become hostile to another player, unless if there was an outside source to make immediate hostility happen, such as a war between two guilds. Aside from guilds, basically, reputations between two players would have to develop gradually. It would not be right to instantly say I hate you to someone and hack and slash away at him. Likewise, you don?t usually walk around asking for friendships without people even knowing you. Such enemies/friendships would have to be earned.

Now, I?ll admit, this idea may sound simple on the outside, but the BIG question here is how could this work inside the game, especially between player to player? What sort of interface would be involved? And how would the game make the decisions in order for players to actual become hostile or friendly?

One idea could be to make players be able to control their reputations with others themselves. They could scroll down to the player they want and then tell the game to either want to become more friendly with that person or become more hostile. The amount of hostility/friendship that would be able to be developed would be determined by the amount of time actually spent with that person. Thus, making sure people don?t say ?Hi. How are you? I hate you. I?m gonna kill you! MuahahAHAHAHAH HAH!?

The same could work between guilds. Instead of guilds instantly attacking each other, a reputation has to be established between the two guilds. This reputation would have to be developed between ALL of the players. In order to gain alliances, all of the players between the two guilds would have to show friendliness towards each other, and the same would have happen with enemy guilds.

Now having said that, when I mean all of the players, I only mean roughly all of the players. There could still be small trifles between two players between the two guilds, but if that trifle continues to develop into something worse, the reputation between both of the guilds could be at stake, and a war could still develop. This could mean more responsibility for the leaders of each guild to control their members, and maintain their alliances with their friends.

Finally, I?ve been reading through other ideas within this forums and have noticed ideas on thieves etc. I think such ideas would thrive on the ideas of reputation. Such event of thievery could allow people to become more hostile towards the thief. Basically, certain events would allow one player to become more hostile or friendly to another player. Obviously, a slight disagreement when talking would not give as many hostility points as someone stealing items from you. The amount of hostility allowed would be entirely dependent on the event.

Question: Are you mentally insane?! Do you realise how complex of an idea this is?!

Yes, it?s a complex idea, and yes, I will probably be inside a mental institute within a couple of years, but I feel such an idea would enhance the roleplaying of Planeshift to a more realistic atmosphere. It would probably take a lot of work and a lot more thought than I have provided, but instead of this game becoming primarily involving combat, there would also be a bit of a storyline, being guided through reputation.

Question: I?m confused. Have you had too much coffee this morning?

(Mmmmm coffee) Basically here is a summary of what my idea is:

Make a reputation system within the game. Each individual player will be able to control their own ?feelings? towards each other, but not to an extent of where they can immediately become hostile towards each other.

A reputation between two players would be gradual, although certain events and/or outside sources, such as guild reputations, could effect the reputation between the two players in a greater way than just talking with each other and disagreeing on something.

The same concept could be applied with guilds, except the guild?s reputation with other guilds would be established through the players within each guild.

This is an idea I thought up of today, and it?s by no means complete, just a quick brainstorm. I?m interested in hearing everyone?s idea on this and will be open minded. If you have any questions on this feel free to ask me. I do have other ideas for this, but for now this is probably long enough. Also, thanks for your time and patience reading this article, it?s not exactly just a few words to read. ;)

-Eneji

Taldor

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« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2004, 10:10:44 am »
I think this would fit very good in a single player RPG, but online it could become contradicory with the real reactions of others. i.e. Someone who says (s)he\'s your friend could be very unfriendly all the time or just ignore you or ...

Draklar

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« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2004, 02:22:02 pm »
Quote
Basically, each individual player would have their own reputation screen as to who they are friendly with, who they are hostile towards, and who they are neutral with. Any player which you have not met (or have not established any reputation with whatsoever) will not be shown.

wonder how much space it\'d need to track friendship status of every character...

guild thing kills lots of situations, like when two rival guilds team up to destroy stronger one. With your idea that\'s impossible
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Uyaem

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« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2004, 03:01:57 pm »
Imagine the following situation:
Two guilds neutral to each other, but some chars of guild A can\'t stand some chars of guild B.
How do you want to (correctly) measure the reputation now?

Besides, although you did develop the idea quite far and put a lot of thoughts into it, I think it\'s basically an attempt to put aspects that are usually decided through RPing into numbers. That will never work accurately enough to be of use for someone. As well likes/dislikes are defined through conversation as well, where you notice a good or a bad vibe between you and the one you\'re talking to. This is an impossible thing to maintain automatically, and letting people configure these values themselves will be chaos.
I agree it\'s not very close to reality to exactly know how someone else feels about you. But you know what YOU feel about someone else, so why then is there a need for this system? :)

Btw. I\'m not trying to kill your idea, I\'m merely critically questioning it. :)
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Eneji

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« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2004, 02:18:46 am »
Alright, to address some of the issues you guys have stated. :)

I\'ll respond to pogo first...

So if guild A can\'t stand some of the players of guild B, that means the alliance of the guild is in jeopardy. This is how real life works really. If you have hate from the lower part of one guild, it\'s going to cause events within the alliance that will either break up the alliance or break down guild A entirely if some of the players are actually best friends with guild B.

Yes, I understand this could mean a constant shift in alliances, but the same does happen in real life.

The main reason for the system would be to create a more accurate \"storyline\". I think if there wasn\'t something like this, there could be a whole different story a day. This would at least ensure a consistant storyline throughout the life of Planeshift. Plus, I think it would also make the game stand out from all of the others. It\'s a thought anyway.

Now, regarding the reputation bars...

Personally, I think it could work if you did it right. I\'ll try to elaborate more on what I am thinking:

Say that you see someone who you want to meet. You walk up to him and the two of you start talking away. From the time you greet him to the time you say goodbye, the conversation length is recorded and a pop up screen comes asking you your opinion on the conversation. On this pop up screen, the character name appears with a scroll bar underneath. The scroll bar can move 2 ways...left (with hatredbeing far left) or right (with friendship being far right).

You move the scroll bar to whichever direction you want, but the server will only let you move the scroll bar a certain number of \"paces\" away from center. We\'re not talking friendships or Violence right away. We have to gradually move outside of neutral.

Now, to address another issue you guys stated, If you are heading towards friendship while your friend moves toward hatred, you will be warned by the server if your opinion of each other differs greatly enough to become a problem and would have the option of charging your mind about him (we can just say rumor has it your friend does not want to be your friend or something like that for now ;)). Ideally this should not have to happen, as most people I\'m sure would be a little more honest than that, but yes, I have considered the possibility of it happenening.

Another thing I don\'t think I mentioned before...if you do not talk with someone for a certain amount of time, the reputation will dwindle back towards neutral. This would be over a few months or something like that, depending on how long you\'ve been friends or enemies.

Regarding numbers being used...

In real life, how many times have you rated something out of 10? We always like or dislike something to a certain extent in real life, and if we tried we COULD put numbers to what we personally like or dislike. It\'s a bizarre thought but we could. :P So I don\'t think wether we can have numbers or not is the problem.

Finally, how much space it would need to track friendship status of every character? Baiscally I\'m thinking you could put things into groups. Friendships in one place. Enemies in another. Neutrals somewhere else. And the people who are dead neutral or even almost dead neutral unseen.

Besides, if you talked with every character of the game and became friends or enemies with them (or even just slightly away from neutral with everyone), you\'d have no life. I think that situation would be impossible. :)

Thanks for your critiques guys. I do actually appreaciate it. Gives me a clearer mind about how things could work ;) By all means, keep them coming.

-Eneji
« Last Edit: May 22, 2004, 02:21:16 am by Eneji »

quiksilver012

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« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2004, 09:24:47 am »
hehe i looked at this thread and thought \"hmm i\'m bored i think i\'ll just browse the little threads,  ooh this ones only 4 posts long\" omg that was a bit of an understatement, ONLY?!?!?! :]  8)

Cirque

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« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2004, 05:01:11 pm »
The annoying thing is that it could be ALOT smaller.

By this I mean long drawn out sentences that beat around the bush instead of getting to the point and saving the reader time.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2004, 07:37:36 pm by Cirque »

rumblebelly

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« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2004, 07:07:43 pm »
i think i will add to it then.

reputation\'s are a naturally accuring thing you don\'t need programmer\'s and script cammand\'s for it to happen it just happen\'s if you play a good char good people will like you if you play an evil char evil character\'s will like you. as for having someone in your guild that doesn\'t like someone else in another guild that your guild has an alliance with it is up to the member\'s of said guild to difuse the problem. and if the problem can\'t be difused then i guess that would be what the arena is for let them fight it out before the problem become\'s too big  :D
if man didn't take chance's the moon would still be made of cheese  8)

Eneji

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« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2004, 10:54:46 pm »
lol I know that I talk a lot, but I have to sound smart right? :D

I\'ll admit, I don\'t have a lot of experience playing a mmorpg game. I guess I just don\'t want this game to become \"loose\", where it\'s just nothing but combat and not roleplaying like Diablo 2 etc. Plus, I was thinking more for something different when it comes to rpg games.

This game will be free obviously, and because of that a lot of people will be around. The only other free game I can remotely think of being a great game is the game I\'m coming from: Subspace/Continuum. Yes, it\'s not 3d like this game and it\'s not an RPG, but considering when it first came out compared with this game, it\'s truely amazing that it\'s a free game, and has developed a HUGE following. There are a ot of players in Subspace, which shows how in demand free games are.

With the idea in mind that so many people will be playing this game, it would probably be impossible to have a REAL storyline going in my mind. Because it\'s free, it will attract players that don\'t regularily play RPG games, not enough to pay for them anyway, so we\'ll get a lot of players who won\'t care too much for storylines and THAT will be the downfall of roleplaying within this game in the future.

That\'s why I brought this thought up in the first place. I just want to try and get everyone to think about possibilties, and not have everyone saying it just won\'t work.

-Eneji
« Last Edit: May 22, 2004, 10:57:03 pm by Eneji »