Human Races

[Xanaroth]

I was scrolling trough the races a bit yesterday, thinking of what good race/skill combinations there were. Then i found that each race has at least 1 extra: night vision, underwater breathing or skill advantage.

When looking at the humans they did not have anything, no improved vision, no bonusus, nothing. I believe that is a bit unbalanced. Who would choose humans, when elves are almost the same, apart from the nightvision and perhaps even underwater breathing.

Now, i would think that the SIMPLE 2 mana points are useless to a magician, who has no real difference in 40 or 42. If you are playing warrior-like mana points are also useless cause then you will be using none-almost no magic.

Thus i would recommend some extra\'s for the humans to make them more attractive. Not to much, but something like an additional 10/10 hp/mana extra.
Another thing is extra skill points, but then to use at your own choice (not like the enkidukai for example who get 4 lvls free, but can only choose the martial arts skill for those) but more like 5 extra points to the pool, to be divided by your choice.
A third option is to give all their abilities (str, end, agi, etc.) 1 extra point, giving them  better starting skills.

Any comments/suggestions?

[Seytra]

Well, I believe the statement \"no restriction on skills\" will be what you are looking for. It does seem like that the other races, as usual, will not be able to pick certain skills at all, or combinations, which already is a pretty big disadvantage. I don\'t refer to the \"Limit 8th rank for magic. Limit 8th rank for thief abilities and martial arts.\" of the Kran or something like this, these most likely will be _additional_ disadvantages.

I, however, do not like this scheme very well. I\'d prefer to give humans some additional specialities as well and have every other race have the same choice of options to pick from, not restrict them to make up for humans not having specialities.

I mean, why make other races deliberately unappealing when you can as well make humans more appealing?

After all, why must humans in a fantasy world be exactly like the humans in the real world? They can already do magic, so why not have nightvision or something? Or give them Empathy, or, if you must stick to the real world, give them +5 chance of successfull bartering or deception or whatever.

[Kiva]

Humans are, have been, and always will be the all-around race. Humans simply are capable of adapting to any role, and that\'s why they have no \"nightvision\", no \"extra magic abilities\". They can be anything they want, thus making them great characters to start out with and try things if you\'re unsure what to be. Besides, the no skill limitation makes them ideel for crafting jobs, right?

You have the Ylians and Krans who are big and strong, and good for fighting purposes. You have the Nolthrir and Lemurs who are good for magic purposes, and the other races do what they\'re specialised in. Humans however remain neutral to gain more power, and are capable of doing anything.

Oh and they don\'t need any extra skills. That would just be unfair for the others. Besides, why make humans something they are not? It is the human nature to adapt to new situations and get whatever we can out of our current situation. Giving them the ability to fly would be silly. They have no wings. Giving them the nightvision skill would be silly too. Humans have nightvision, yes, but they just aren\'t as good at seeing in dark as others, but they can! Humans have natural anti-magic abilities like Kran too, they just aren\'t so developed that it needs to be listed as an additional feature (Kran are made of stone, humans are not. That\'s why they have additional resistance).

I\'m sure you get the point.

[Xanaroth]

well, just as an exmaple, when choosing between humans and elves for example, what would you do? elves have better vision, elves dont have the -2 mana points, 1 elf even has underwater breathing, and also they have no restriction, cause if there were it was wriiten there.

The reason why i know elves also do not have any restriction, is by reading: all skills will be unlimmited(have no top number, you can alsways keep growing) Thus dwarves you know that they can cast almost no magic (only lvl what is a restriction. So either elves do not have any restrictions as well, or there hasnt been tought up by anyone.

I mean, why would you play human, while elves are almost the same, except for having better advantages, and no disvantages.

[Kiva]

The reason why i know elves also do not have any restriction, is by reading: all skills will be unlimmited

Please direct me to whatever post said that, as I\'m very sure it did not come from a dev. If it did, you must remember Paxx and Talad are the only devs in control of that as they set the rules of the game. Noone else does. Besides, neither Paxx nor Talad have said anything regarding no limitations on skills. Things aren\'t always as you read on random PlaneShift boards, Mr. Xanaroth... They\'re diffrent. Very diffrent.

(Especially if \"things\" are posted by people who have no influence what-so-ever on the dev team. Then they simply remain ideas, suggestions and oppinions, and should be treated accordingly.)

[Seytra]

I think this is what Xanaroth was referring to:

from PS about page
Unlimited professions through skill system

This can be read to mean
\"because there\'s no cap on skills, everybody can become everything if they play long eniugh\". Adding to that the clear limits expressed at some races\' descriptions and the missing explicitly stated limits on others this can indeed yield the impression that there are no limits unless stated.

As for the question of human adaptibility: what is the reason other races would NOT adapt that well, or even better? And why must humans be exactly like IRL? I mean, if they _really_ were, they would not possess magic either... I repeat: no magic for humans.
That said, this \"humans are the only really flexible race\" business sounds much like the XDD rules, which by this difinition, justify the existence of humans in spite of the other races. However, if this really would be the case, how could other races then create a society that is so much like the one of humanity? Thus, I find this definition to be a dirty rule-\"hack\" without any real basis and would therefore rather not have it in PS.
AT LEAST I\'d like not to absolutely exclude any possibility for any race to advance in any skill. If you must, make it considerably more expensive (in terms of XP) to advance beyond a certain level, but there really is no reason why an individual who persistantly keeps practising a skill would not eventually get better at it, even if it\'s race is generally not good at it. While physical limitations can be a real reason (well, Kran and martial arts), but even here will be some individuals that just are more \"gifted\" than others, and be it only due to continous practice. This is especially true if you have an open ended skill system in which even the average human can limitless increase any skill. This probably is necessary to ensure long-term playability, but it also means that it is even more unreasonable to fixedly limit any race to any level.
I wonder why this approach was chosen.

[Saphire]

Originally posted by Xanaroth When looking at the humans they did not have anything, no improved vision, no bonusus, nothing. I believe that is a bit unbalanced. Who would choose humans, when elves are almost the same, apart from the nightvision and perhaps even underwater breathing.

But the humans DO have a advantage... and guess what it is:

They.
Have.
No.
Disadvantage.

In every game [and NOT just Dungeons and Dragons; all sorts of games from the computer to pen and paper], humans have been the baseline character because they excell in everything equally with decent rates across the board. Not spectacular learners at one thing, but moderate learners across the board. Not super-power fighters [with \"Weapon X\"], but decent fighters [with any weapon].

A human character can just as easilly weild a sword as he or she can weild magic... or science.

THAT is their advantage.

[Really, i dont know why you didn\'t see that and insist on giving the human race any more of a advantage. If you want a advantage, fine. remove their magic capabilities and replace it with science; bombs, guns, and gadgets. Problem solved; too bad that\'s not PS.]

[Xanaroth]

lol, now there is the funny part: they indeed DO have a disvantages, tough it is not a large 1. Read my whole popst: humans have a -2 mana points cap at creation.

That is why they are so unbalanced. All races have a extra thing apart from normal (even if it is only nightvision) and some have a extra advantages and 1 or 2 disvantages. While humans only have a disvantages, altough it is verry small, in the beginning of the game it will be noticable.

But where is the advantage?? in the skill system? If it is in there, then what is the downside to that for the other races, or where lies their advantage then? I dont see anything that clearifies it, so i concluded that elves and others that do not a have specified skill cap, also have a unlimited grow.

That is why i believed that the humans are the worst race, and need some extra, even if it is a small one, to make them have a better balanced position between the other races.

[zinder]

Read again please. Its a +2 mana bonus at creation. The dwarves have the -2 malus.

From judging the race descriptions, I think, there will be modifiers for the skills to make them fit the descriptions(either in XP for a certein level or effect of a level). For example the Nolthrir look like they get a malus on fire way (whichever color) and gain a bonus on the water way. Also judging from the nutrition text it seems to me similiar effects will occur on use items.

[Xanaroth]

ha... ahaha.... ah... lolz....


*goes to pearl and buys himself some glasses*