Author Topic: Silly, Unrealistic Names  (Read 7515 times)

Waylander

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« Reply #90 on: July 29, 2004, 07:55:47 am »
heh, the comics makes us look like idiots *walks away sulkily* :P

Oh go to the second day (<< then >) the elf description is perfect for...nobody >_>....<_< ....god dude....
« Last Edit: July 29, 2004, 07:59:34 am by Waylander »
<Jeraphon>oh khado
<Jeraphon>you so khrazy

Xil|sleeps: I love cadoras

Waylander, A.K.A: Cadoras, Khado, Nurahk, Armeen, Nostra ... God.

Zeraph

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« Reply #91 on: July 29, 2004, 04:48:32 pm »
Thanks for picking @ the now scavenged & rotting remains of my post (lol) :).

?lol! I\'ll write a sign with that description and put it next to the pile of ashes that was Zeraph before Fulgor!? ? That?s a great idea! lol ? but my char did survive & that?s why only 2 of his wings are visible, & all he can remember is that he has 6 wings & was struck by lightning & can?t remember anything else?

I agree with some of the stuff you said, except for the following:

?Whenever Killah is mentioned, I think of some n00bish teen who??
-That is your opinion & well some of this:

Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
I thionk toe major problem is the perception of naming in general. The fact that the player gives a name to the char leads to the impression that the name is really just a label that only affects the player. This is true in single player RPGs (but even there the other ppl. talk to the char by it\'s name, which IMO looks really dumb if the name sticks out like a wart), but in MMORPGs it\'s different: the name is part of the chars history, not a label. It is the first thing others get to know and the first thing they base judgement on. IOW, it affects everybody and if you don\'t want it to fit, why the hell are you trying to RP anyway? Remember, someone might call themselves \"Minion of Laanx\", but the fact is that this person\'s name in fact is \"Seytra K\'Haryg\" (I made up this surname this moment, didn\'t take long). So no matter what you call yourself, your birth certificate will show your real name, the one that was given to you by your parents (who certainly didn\'t anticipate your killing career, but wanted a name that they thought makes a good impression and doesn\'t make you laughingstock in school, which \"Killah\" certainly would.). That\'s what names are. The fact that there are some nutters who try to call their children \"Seven of Nine\" or \"Jesus Christ\" doesn\'t change this, and I certainly am grateful that my parents weren\'t that stupid.

Quote
Originally posted by Zeraph
?( A Name is a Label. What Would You Label Yourself? & Shouldn?t it be Your Choice? The game should get boring to hard-core-hack\'n\'slashers & 1337 people anyway & they will be shunned by society anyway, maybe it could even turn them into RP\'ers?


So why would we cater to them by allowing their n00bish names, then? And as I said, a name is not just a label, and it in fact isn\'t your choice and also shouldn\'t be that in PS unless you change reproduction to laying eggs that are left alone to hatch and grow up, in which case nobody would be there to give out names. The fact that you as the player are given the choice of naming your char in fact means that your very first RP is done by you before you even have create your character, namely at the beginning of the creation when you choose a name!

A name isn\'t like a folder on your harddrive, that can be called \"k3wlGaM3\" without affecting anything except yourself, it\'s your visiting card and in fact it is given to you by your parents, whose role you get to play on creation because no qualified person exists besides you. It gives you more freedom than IRL because you can choose an mane you like and base it on your intentions for that char, but you still need to make it something that realistically could indeed also have been given to your char by it\'s parents if they actually existed.


I do not have much time right at the moment, but the main point I want to say is, yes we need some rules such as no profanity & no numbers, but I personally think that will take care of most of all the name problems for the exception of limited cases, such as no XxXGoDXxX sort of stuff, & we should be able to filter that out on char creation before anyone ever sees the name?

Short Char Story Background: You are a Ynnwn who was brought up in a orphanage, not knowing your real parents or if they even named you. Everyone @ the orphanage calls you ?Slop Boy? because you help out serving the meals? What will happen to you if you went out into the PS world with the name ?Slop Boy? on your birth certificate?

Btw: I am sorry about this statement ?Some peoples imaginations are so limiting?? I was getting mad & must have gone to far?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2004, 04:50:36 pm by Zeraph »

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Seytra

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« Reply #92 on: July 30, 2004, 02:54:25 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Melbourne
Well my name will be A... oh wait Seytra is supposed to guess that. :)

So there is a HINT! :) Well, there have certainly been several ppl. whose names start with an \"A\", but I have a guess. ;)
Quote
Originally posted by Melbourne
Anyway, I agree with everything you put in your post, but I would also suggest a limit on the number of characters, which I think Grono already said there was one.

Yes, that would indeed be good.
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Originally posted by Melbourne
Oh that comic is hilarious, if not a bit sad.


Yes. I don\'t know if I\'m to laugh or to quit  RPG. :)

Quote
Originally posted by Zeraph
Thanks for picking @ the now scavenged & rotting remains of my post (lol) :).

You\'re welcome! ;)
Quote
Originally posted by Zeraph
?lol! I\'ll write a sign with that description and put it next to the pile of ashes that was Zeraph before Fulgor!? ? That?s a great idea! lol ? but my char did survive & that?s why only 2 of his wings are visible, & all he can remember is that he has 6 wings & was struck by lightning & can?t remember anything else?

Well, that seems to indicate that, while technically living through the lightning strike itself, your char still needs some \"professional help\", to put it mildly... :D
Quote
Originally posted by Zeraph
I agree with some of the stuff you said, except for the following:

?Whenever Killah is mentioned, I think of some n00bish teen who??
-That is your opinion & well some of this:

It most certainly is, but I don\'t get the connection to the quote of my post that follows, :( so I left it out of this reply.
Quote
Originally posted by Zeraph
I do not have much time right at the moment, but the main point I want to say is, yes we need some rules such as no profanity & no numbers, but I personally think that will take care of most of all the name problems for the exception of limited cases, such as no XxXGoDXxX sort of stuff, & we should be able to filter that out on char creation before anyone ever sees the name?

We will easily be able to filter out numbers, but the rest can\'t really be done automatically, at least not 100% (I mean, I can write \"Motarfooxor\" and no dictionary check will cache this).
Quote
Originally posted by Zeraph
Short Char Story Background: You are a Ynnwn who was brought up in a orphanage, not knowing your real parents or if they even named you. Everyone @ the orphanage calls you ?Slop Boy? because you help out serving the meals? What will happen to you if you went out into the PS world with the name ?Slop Boy? on your birth certificate?

I wouldn\'t. \"Slop Boy\" would be a nickname given to me by the others, but the orphanage itself would have assigned a proper name to me upon discovery of me, if, as is implied, my parents didn\'t leave a note. They would then have put that name in my birth certificate as it will have to be created way before me serving the my very first meal (usually within a week after my being found). So the only thing that might happen to me is when I have become king of Yliakum, some guy from the orphanage might show up and call me \"Slop Boy\" in public, but I\'d still be \"King Seytra\" (to stick with \"Boy\" :] ) or (in retrospect) \"K\'Haryg I\". And because I\'ll not be an evil king, it wouldn\'t even be embarassing. :)
If I were older, like 8 years or so, when being put into the orphanage, that still woudn\'t matter. Either I\'d have, by whatever means, acquired a descent name or, if not, they would still not put \"Sneaky\" in my birth certificate, despite all my protest. :D
Quote
Originally posted by Zeraph
Btw: I am sorry about this statement ?Some peoples imaginations are so limiting?? I was getting mad & must have gone to far?

I accept this.

Well, some ppl.\'s imagination indeed seems to be limited (I\'m talking massive Aragorns here *g*), but it may also just not work on names, that\'s where a random name generator and / or name list is required.

If this is aimed at names like \"the Wolf of Fire\" (or the non-approval of them), then I need to agree, because I didn\'t think of this kind of names, because I personally don\'t really like them (to me, they\'re more like nicknames that are given to you after some deed or after something special happened, but still in almost every case by others, not by yourself. Also, while this certainly is biased by my preference and cultural background, whether or not these names are appropriate for PS needs to be defined by the rule department, simply because these names are AFAICS not \"mainstream fantasy\" (if I may put it like this). Therefore, their usage must be specifically defined so that they will not be out of place. I always look at the example names for the race / gender I\'m going to be and then create a name based on them, but usually avoid using the preassembled names themselves, using them as a guideline only.

You see, I already made up my mind, but still it needs to be consistent, i.e., either everybody of a certain race / gender will have such a name, or nobody, because their society sets those rules, just as IRL.

Or did you mean that my imagination is limiting you? Well, as the devs create the PS world by their imagination and therefore set the rules, their imagination, however limited or unlimited it might be, definitely limits every player (to a certain extent), starting with the definition of the most basic concepts, like the setting. If the devs use my proposals, it\'d indeed be my imagination that limits you, but I doubt they will follow this 100% anyway. ;)
« Last Edit: July 30, 2004, 02:58:49 am by Seytra »

Melbourne

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« Reply #93 on: July 30, 2004, 05:20:03 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
So there is a HINT! :) Well, there have certainly been several ppl. whose names start with an \"A\", but I have a guess. ;)


Guess that\'s the second hint I\'ve given you.  Here\'s another: Don\'t get fooled by my first name, it\'s my last name that you\'ll probobly reconize.

It\'s already been said in this thread several times and I\'m going to repeat it, people, learn the difference between a name and a nickname.  Sure everyone knows you as \"The Big Mack Daddy\" but your real name will always be Richard Murdoc.  If you meet someone new you\'ll prolly introduce yourself as \"The Big Mack Daddy\" but your name is still Richard Murdoc.  Now everytime you play a game and type in a name for your character, think about whether it is an actual name that was given to you by your parents, or is it just a nickname you got when someone started calling you \"The Big Mack Daddy\"  Think people, please think.  Know the difference between a nickname and an actual, real name.
I\'m not racist, I hate everyone equally.

Black_rose

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« Reply #94 on: July 30, 2004, 04:38:05 pm »
hey melburne aulstralia! see a name could be a personal thing that you renamed yourself :]
KABLUMMPPP!

Zeraph

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Bunch of stuff:
« Reply #95 on: July 30, 2004, 05:12:57 pm »
I personally think my real name sucks; I think it is awkward sounding?
Why can?t we all go by are ?Nicknames? like we usually do in real life. Then we can gather in the forest around a fire, or @ the pub (for Dwarfs) & tell about how we got them? (oh well? never mind? probably shouldn?t have asked?)

Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
Well, that seems to indicate that, while technically living through the lightning strike itself, your char still needs some \"professional help\", to put it mildly... :D

That?s why he is so weak, like we will all be in CB? I wonder, is armor skill going to improve every time you get hit, or is it fix depending on the stuff you wear, that last one would pos a problem for Klyros, (Ops I am drifting?)

Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
We will easily be able to filter out numbers, but the rest can\'t really be done automatically, at least not 100% (I mean, I can write \"Motarfooxor\" and no dictionary check will cache this).


About the rest of ?I accept this.? Good for you :) ? some of the names I have heard like Gertrude & Buzz or Nad I just can?t see myself or others wanting that name. Yes I have seen a guy named Nad. There are always going to be parents that name their children strange things, I do not see what makes PS so different & immune from that? \"Motarfooxor\" sounds fine if it is together, but I sort of see what you mean if it was like this: ?Motar Fooxer?, anyway?

Correct me if I am wrong, being from the US, but like 300 years ago, weren?t you mostly know my the place you lived @ like ?Rose of Greenwood Estate? or something like that, so would last-names (surnames) like ?Shadyoaks? or ?Valleywild? or ?Highlander? be ok? I would like to also add, that it would be nice to have the choice to have a ? of ? in the middle o your name like ?Zeraph of Fulgor? (Seraphim of Lightning)?

Also way back, they used to take there father?s names as last names like ?Peter son of John? & thinking of stuff like this, there are some realy interesting names found in the bible: ??there arose war at Gezer with the Philistines; at which time Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Sippai, that was of the children of the giant: and they were subdued.? Others like: ?Joab?, ?Gad the seer?, ?Ornan the Jebusite?, ?The sons of Aaron; Nadab, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.? Just to name a few? :D

Looks like Melbourne & I both got dissected by Seytra this time?

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Seytra

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« Reply #96 on: July 30, 2004, 09:15:34 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by black_rose
hey melburne aulstralia! see a name could be a personal thing that you renamed yourself

Well, that wouldn\'t be a challenge now, would it (apart from not fitting into PS)?
FYI, Melbourne doesn\'t refer to the city. :]

Quote
Originally posted by Melbourne
Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
So there is a HINT! :) Well, there have certainly been several ppl. whose names start with an \"A\", but I have a guess. ;)


Guess that\'s the second hint I\'ve given you.  Here\'s another: Don\'t get fooled by my first name, it\'s my last name that you\'ll probobly reconize.

So we have the first name starting with an \"A\", but the last name is the one to be recognised. That limits it to two ppl., unless I broaden the scope of possibilities... um, your nickname wouldn\'t happen to be \"Bertie\"? ;)
Quote
Originally posted by Melbourne

It\'s already been said in this thread several times and I\'m going to repeat it, people, learn the difference between a name and a nickname.  Sure everyone knows you as \"The Big Mack Daddy\" but your real name will always be Richard Murdoc.  If you meet someone new you\'ll prolly introduce yourself as \"The Big Mack Daddy\" but your name is still Richard Murdoc.  Now everytime you play a game and type in a name for your character, think about whether it is an actual name that was given to you by your parents, or is it just a nickname you got when someone started calling you \"The Big Mack Daddy\"  Think people, please think.  Know the difference between a nickname and an actual, real name.

Yes. The following will be my final try to explain this difference, because I honestly think it should be common sense or at least clear by now.
Quote
Originally posted by Zeraph
I personally think my real name sucks; I think it is awkward sounding?
Why can?t we all go by are ?Nicknames? like we usually do in real life.


We do? Well, OK, some do, but only restricted to certain groups of ppl, not in general. But still, if you\'re going to  sign a contract, do you honestly believe you can get away with signing it as \"Zeraph\"? I don\'t think so... ;)

Quote
Originally posted by Zeraph
Then we can gather in the forest around a fire, or @ the pub (for Dwarfs) & tell about how we got them? (oh well? never mind? probably shouldn?t have asked?)

Gah! You still can! There is NOTHING to prevent you from introducing yourself as whatever you want, or doing the \"I\'m Seytra, but my friends call me \"Sneaky\"\" thing. It\'s just not your name, just as IRL. I therefore propose that there should be a nickname identify function, that is, you have a special command, like /nick that you can use when you introduce yourself. This name would then be added to the buddylist of the person you introduced yourself to (if they set the preferences to allow it). Or even better, you set your nickname and when you mention it in your introduction, the system automatically puts it into the buddylist. However, the last version would not be viable if you use different nicks for different groups of ppl..
Still, these nicks need to meet similar criteria, except uniqueness isn\'t necessary and also they can be common english words, but profanity and numbers still should be out.
Quote
Originally posted by Zeraph
Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
Well, that seems to indicate that, while technically living through the lightning strike itself, your char still needs some \"professional help\", to put it mildly... :D

That?s why he is so weak, like we will all be in CB? I wonder, is armor skill going to improve every time you get hit, or is it fix depending on the stuff you wear, that last one would pos a problem for Klyros, (Ops I am drifting?)

The reason why you\'re going to be weak as Klyros is that you can\'t wear heavy armor and also your skeleton is easily damaged, as the race description states. Nothing to do with lightning, or do you suggest every Klyros gets struck by lightning on birth? :]
Quote
Originally posted by Zeraph
Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
We will easily be able to filter out numbers, but the rest can\'t really be done automatically, at least not 100% (I mean, I can write \"Motarfooxor\" and no dictionary check will cache this).


About the rest of ?I accept this.? Good for you :) ? some of the names I have heard like Gertrude & Buzz or Nad I just can?t see myself or others wanting that name. Yes I have seen a guy named Nad. There are always going to be parents that name their children strange things, I do not see what makes PS so different & immune from that?

Because, unlike IRL, we do have the choice in PS. Furthermore, What someone dislikes can easily be someone elses favourite. I\'m sure I will come accross \"proper\" names which I think are stupid, just as someone else will be bound to dislike my name. Still, this doesn\'t excuse improper names.
Quote
Originally posted by Zeraph
\"Motarfooxor\" sounds fine if it is together, but I sort of see what you mean if it was like this: ?Motar Fooxer?, anyway?

Well, whatever it is spelt, it wouldn\'t be OK with me, because I specifically constructed it to turn into \"Motherf**ker\" when spoken. Also, it clearly is 1337 (without numbers) / chatspeak, which doesn\'t fit PS.
Quote
Originally posted by Zeraph
Correct me if I am wrong, being from the US, but like 300 years ago, weren?t you mostly know my the place you lived @ like ?Rose of Greenwood Estate? or something like that, so would last-names (surnames) like ?Shadyoaks? or ?Valleywild? or ?Highlander? be ok? I would like to also add, that it would be nice to have the choice to have a ? of ? in the middle o your name like ?Zeraph of Fulgor? (Seraphim of Lightning)?
Also way back, they used to take there father?s names as last names like ?Peter son of John? & thinking of stuff like this, there are some realy interesting names found in the bible: ??there arose war at Gezer with the Philistines; at which time Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Sippai, that was of the children of the giant: and they were subdued.?


Well, an \"of\" uses to indicate some royal heritage, which isn\'t the norm. Also, the surnames only became necessary when communities grew gigger than just a few hundred ppl. Also, nameslike \"Smith\" clearly came from these times, where ppl. were referred to by their profession as well as by their name, simply because there were so many Johns in the town that you needed to make clear you mean John the smith, thus John Smith. And yes, being given the attribute \"son of (fathers/mothers name)\" was convention, but also is only feasible in small societies. Yliakum is way too big for these rather simple naming systems and therefore will inevitably have evolved to more complex and abstract conventions (like ours) literally ages ago, even if, which in itself is unlikely, the early settlers didn\'t use such a system (since they were coming from even bigger societies that therefore will also have had different names). Therefore, the only races that might have started out with a simple scheme in Yliakum would be Krans and Lemurs, but they would still have had to change it when their own population grew and surely once the others arrived unless they had names that were exclusive to their race due to their special nature, but I don\'t think the other races and these wouldn\'t have borrowed from each other, thus removing the uniqueness.

Quote
Originally posted by Zeraph
Others like: ?Joab?, ?Gad the seer?, ?Ornan the Jebusite?, ?The sons of Aaron; Nadab, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.? Just to name a few? :D

Clear examples of the profession being used to more closely identify which \"Gad\" or \"Ornan\" you actually mean. Naming schemes in the process of becoming more abstract to scale with the population growth.
Quote
Originally posted by Zeraph
Looks like Melbourne & I both got dissected by Seytra this time?

It surely does... :)
« Last Edit: July 30, 2004, 09:22:22 pm by Seytra »

Zeraph

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« Reply #97 on: July 31, 2004, 12:17:08 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
Well, whatever it is spelt, it wouldn\'t be OK with me, because I specifically constructed it to turn into \"Motherf**ker\" when spoken. Also, it clearly is 1337 (without numbers) / chatspeak, which doesn\'t fit PS.

Oh, I see it now? I wouldn?t make a very good name police because my mind doesn?t work like a 1337 person I guess.

Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
The reason why you\'re going to be weak as Klyros is that you can\'t wear heavy armor and also your skeleton is easily damaged, as the race description states. Nothing to do with lightning, or do you suggest every Klyros gets struck by lightning on birth?

Of course I know that, & that it the reason I pointed that out? & I meant that everyone will have to start @ low skill levels & work your way up by however means?

Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
Well, an \"of\" uses to indicate some royal heritage, which isn\'t the norm. Also, the surnames only became necessary when communities grew gigger than just a few hundred ppl. Also, nameslike \"Smith\" clearly came from these times, where ppl. were referred to by their profession as well as by their name, simply because there were so many Johns in the town that you needed to make clear you mean John the smith, thus John Smith. And yes, being given the attribute \"son of (fathers/mothers name)\" was convention, but also is only feasible in small societies. Yliakum is way too big for these rather simple naming systems and therefore will inevitably have evolved to more complex and abstract conventions (like ours) literally ages ago, even if, which in itself is unlikely, the early settlers didn\'t use such a system (since they were coming from even bigger societies that therefore will also have had different names). Therefore, the only races that might have started out with a simple scheme in Yliakum would be Krans and Lemurs, but they would still have had to change it when their own population grew and surely once the others arrived unless they had names that were exclusive to their race due to their special nature, but I don\'t think the other races and these wouldn\'t have borrowed from each other, thus removing the uniqueness.

So that would be ok if my last name would be similar to the name of a place etc? Have to go now?

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Melbourne

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« Reply #98 on: July 31, 2004, 06:09:08 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
Quote
Originally posted by black_rose
hey melburne aulstralia! see a name could be a personal thing that you renamed yourself

Well, that wouldn\'t be a challenge now, would it (apart from not fitting into PS)?
FYI, Melbourne doesn\'t refer to the city. :]


Here is where I got the name from if anyone is still wondering
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/terrace/adw03/pms/mel.htm

Quote

So we have the first name starting with an \"A\", but the last name is the one to be recognised. That limits it to two ppl., unless I broaden the scope of possibilities... um, your nickname wouldn\'t happen to be \"Bertie\"? ;)


Actually I just made up the first name, you\'ll never recognize it, but if you see my last name and know your history it will be really easy.

I was going to say more but Seytra beat me to it. *sigh*
I\'m not racist, I hate everyone equally.

Seytra

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« Reply #99 on: August 01, 2004, 08:33:20 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Zeraph
So that would be ok if my last name would be similar to the name of a place etc? Have to go now?

Well, in theory, yes. However, It just crossed my mind that ppl. in Yliakum will most likely not speak english, nor will they ever have done so. Even worse, the different races wopuld most likely have had different l?anguages initially that IMO will have melted into one common language.

Therefore, even if there are names like \"smith\" (which still needs to be decided by the rules / settings team), they will not be recognisable as such because the words will be very different from \"smith\" (just like english \"computer\" and french \"ordinateur\", and these languages don\'t even originate in different planes / universes!).
Of course, you could argue that, to not have us learn an artificial language, english is \"the\" language of Yliakum, but I think this is for convenience only and therefore shouldn\'t influence naming, because there wouldn\'t be reason for such convenience. Also, I don\'t see why it would be necessary to resort to english words in names, because there are so many other viable and well-sounding combinations of letters.

Quote
Originally posted by Melbourne
Actually I just made up the first name, you\'ll never recognize it, but if you see my last name and know your history it will be really easy.


I see, or better, I will see (you in CB, then). :)