PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: zanzibar on April 24, 2006, 01:10:22 am
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Xillix's guild is using shortcuts to tell newcomers to visit the planeshift website. It has been encorporated into a guild-run quest that they give to each and every single new player that they meet.
Xillix and her guildmates have been completely resistant to change. Personally, I find it terribly OOC, disruptive, and annoying.
Does anyone have any comments? Agree/disagree?
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Xillix and her guildmates have been completely resistant to change.
And what change have they been Resistant too?
And who is it that is telling them to change?
Curious,
Anfa
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I think zanzibar is trying to say that every time they see a newbie they use a shortcut to tell them to visit the forums...I wish they had a grammar translation website just for zanzibar. =P
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Well, since I added $target to the shortcuts, perhaps they could do this in /tell?
/tell $target Blah blah, more blah, visit http://www.planeshift.it/main_01.html
I'm rather curious WHY they're actually telling them to visit the site. They obviously would have gone there once already to get the client.
josePhoenix
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actually you'd be surprised. having the game doesn't actually mean that they have visited and read anything.
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Maybe someone gave them the direct link to the mirror? =X
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Ch. I agree on the annoying part. All I hear in the plaza is "Vespers of Laanx accepting donations large and small. Send us the daft bla blah."
I practically memorized it
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An old quote, MB days:
Unnamed shouts: how do you get a weapon and fight stuff?
Ampathos shouts: read the website
Unnamed shouts: yea right i pirated this off kazaa
Too much shouting is just rude, and those asking for donations (especially for a charity) are usually a lot more humble and quiet about it. When you shout, you aren't just trying to get your voice out there - your character is straining his or her vocal cords, actually shouting, for gods know whatever reason. If people are annoyed, it's time to cut down on it.
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I think zanzibar is trying to say that every time they see a newbie they use a shortcut to tell them to visit the forums...I wish they had a grammar translation website just for zanzibar. =P
Hey flame boy,
You're right in saying that they use shortcuts to communicate more quickly with new players. However, they don't just link to the forums - it's to the planeshift setting page specifically. The idea is that new players will read the history of planeshift, then return with the answer to a trivia question.
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Ok, and how is this supposed to be a bad thing again...? They use brackets, don't they? If not, then prod their asses until they do.
...'Nuff said.
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Ok, and how is this supposed to be a bad thing again...? They use brackets, don't they? If not, then prod their asses until they do.
...'Nuff said.
OOC is OOC. Brackets help, but they don't make it ok, especially when it's something so pervasive and intrusive as what Xillix's guild do.
Btw flamey, I don't see where my grammar was so horrible. You found it flame-worthy however, so do you mind pointing out the error of my ways? Thanks.
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*sigh* don't start. They're using brackets so it can be seen as OOC, and not disturb what is happening in the RP. If you don't like it, you can just kiss their asses, because that's what they're going to do, and keep doing. They're helping people, not disturbing the rp, and the only thing that could possibly be wrong is that it maybe fills one or two lines in the chat box. Big deal? Now stop getting so pissy over their helping noobs and get over it.
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*sigh* don't start. They're using brackets so it can be seen as OOC, and not disturb what is happening in the RP. If you don't like it, you can just kiss their asses, because that's what they're going to do, and keep doing. They're helping people, not disturbing the rp, and the only thing that could possibly be wrong is that it maybe fills one or two lines in the chat box. Big deal? Now stop getting so pissy over their helping noobs and get over it.
It's disruptive and intrusive. I can personally say that it disturbs me, and we've already heard from others who feel the same way. I was standing around infront of the temple the other day RPing with a few characters, and we kept getting interupted by their damn shortcuts complete with OOC references and urls.
Brackets are for OOC chat when you absolutely have to say something but you're in the presence of others who aren't part of the OOC conversation. OOC chat is still supposed to be avoided though. Sometimes it's necessary but brackets don't make it ok.
At least, that's my understanding of it.
And no, this isn't about helping new players. It's about the disruptive nature of their blurbs.
Here's a solution: Send the OOC parts of the blurb as a /tell.
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Let's all calm down. New board, hopefully new beginnings for other things too.
OOC shouting should be cut to a very bare minimum. OOC /say, if used sparingly, is fine. I don't have the exact logs of some messages you guys may be referring to so I can't offer alternative suggestions, but if something requires an OOC explanation one should try very hard to make it work In-Character first, with only a sentance or two of OOC brackets for clarification. For example, typing out the exact URL of the Settings page from the site is unnecessary. Players can't cut-and-paste from the game client, and it's a very simple matter to find that page from the main site anyway. You can explain a lot to new players without resorting to OOC text at all, too.
I'm just wondering at the frequency of use for these shortcuts. One of my personal concerns is that too much pre-typed and repeated text creates a robotic, impersonal character that plays too much like an NPC instead of a warm-blooded player.
*edit* Zanzibar made a good point - since you can use $target in shortcuts, send OOC tells - that's what the command is for anyway. So explain something IC, then target the player and click the shortcut for an OOC elaboration. It should be flawless.
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What do you want then? Do you want them to say "There is a magical place called www.planeshift.it that has all the answers you seek...it has tales of how this world came to be, and even has a reference of all the different races in this world, including their strengths, weaknesses, and physical traits"
COME ON! It's better that they do this, than have noobs run around saying things WITHOUT brackets like "ey lol how do i play dis game lol"
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What do you want then? Do you want them to say "There is a magical place called www.planeshift.it that has all the answers you seek...it has tales of how this world came to be, and even has a reference of all the different races in this world, including their strengths, weaknesses, and physical traits"
COME ON! It's better that they do this, than have noobs run around saying things WITHOUT brackets like "ey lol how do i play dis game lol"
/say "Hi! Answer my question about the history of this land and I will reward you generously."
/tell "The answer to my question is in the planeshift history section of the website, located at www.whatever.com."
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Suno, Xillix is doing a very nice deed, and I don't think anyone can deny this. It's just that no system is perfect right now and there is always room for improvement.
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Well a real suggestion would be to fill that gap in the chat box with an "OOC" button. =P
EDIT: Better yet, make the chat button an "RP" button, and make the previously suggested OOC button "Chat" =P
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Suggestions like these have been made before, and they have been ruled out for many reasons. You've participated in some of those discussions, so you should be aware of the problems such things would entail.
The simple solution is to send OOC text in tells. It doesn't require any extra work, the chat is cleaner, and it teaches new players about the proper use of commands.
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Even though it's private chat, I still think it would be ooc. Say if someone in a tavern walked up and whispered to you, they would use /tell (or announce it publically so that the person on the other side of the table can pretend they heard you with their super hearing) so for a PUBLIC ooc discussion, there would have to be a new chat tab, or just stay with the brackets which zanzibar seems to have too many problems about.
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You have all heard of a hawker?
That is what we do.
Nothing that is shouted is OOC.
I think I am completely IC in shouting for donations and that I will help the new. If one has almost memorized it they know this. To say I am resistant to changes is frankly ignorant and much of this post ignores the fact that there is another thread dedicated to making changes. I have incorporated a great deal of critiscism and made changes already. you should come through and see what we do now instead of making assumptions. :-*
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Say if someone in a tavern walked up and whispered to you, they would use /tell (or announce it publically so that the person on the other side of the table can pretend they heard you with their super hearing) so for a PUBLIC ooc discussion, there would have to be a new chat tab, or just stay with the brackets which zanzibar seems to have too many problems about.
I don't think that's acceptable. /tell is used for IC whispering if two people are next to each other, but otherwise the command is completely OOC and absolutely perfect for offering OOC explanations and clarifications. A separate OOC/RP tab is out of the question.
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Still, what about public ooc? Like a discussion? Once we get in game, newbies are going to want advice, and so on. They won't know how to use the help channel right away, so where would they ask? I doubt they would even know the command for /tell, much less who to ask. When I get in game, I always worry about staying in character, and that anything ooc would pretty much disrupt what I'm trying to set. So, having an ooc channel would help, that way any ooc thing I have to bring up (such as asking the public about a bug) won't be in brackets, and won't be in anyone's way.
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Even though it's private chat, I still think it would be ooc. Say if someone in a tavern walked up and whispered to you, they would use /tell (or announce it publically so that the person on the other side of the table can pretend they heard you with their super hearing) so for a PUBLIC ooc discussion, there would have to be a new chat tab, or just stay with the brackets which zanzibar seems to have too many problems about.
Tell's are generally OOC, especially when people use them to communicate across vast distances. Whispers are one IC use of tells, but they aren't used that often in my experience.
"/tell name /me is the name that marks the paper you find in your pocket. Reading it, you find a note instructing you to meet a Kran at Brado's in in Akkaio."
But stuff like that is hard to get away with, and the 'target' might go OOC on you anyway.
Still, are you arguing that it's better for OOC chat which is directed towards a single individual to be said as a /say rather than a /tell? A /say is disruptive to everyone in the immediate area, while a /tell is only percieved by a single individual.
You have all heard of a hawker?
That is what we do.
Nothing that is shouted is OOC.
I think I am completely IC in shouting for donations and that I will help the new. If one has almost memorized it they know this. To say I am resistant to changes is frankly ignorant and much of this post ignores the fact that there is another thread dedicated to making changes. I have incorporated a great deal of critiscism and made changes already. you should come through and see what we do now instead of making assumptions. :-*
It would be better if you walked up to people, introduced yourself, then asked for a private donation from individuals. Using /shout is just lazy since your guild does it so often.
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I think you're overcomplicating it, Suno :] If people don't know how to use the /help channel, it takes a single sentence to explain. When I send /tells to a new player as a GM, I always end them with "To reply, type /tell Bakuun and your message." It's simple and not as backbreaking as you make it sound. Zanzibar isn't suggesting a complicated system - he is just stating that after an IC conversation, if something needs further OOC clarification, /tells should be used to keep the public chat free of OOC text as much as possible.
And even though this has been beaten to death already, I'll explain one more time - a separate OOC tab of the chat window both invites and sanctifies OOC conversation. In a PlaneShift utopia that we are all aiming for, OOC text shouldn't even exist. We definitely don't need to "okay" it by giving it its own place.
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You have all heard of a hawker?
Your whole guild would have sore throats right now , the amount you "hawk" >o)
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Personally, if it is an RP I "do not wish to be interupted" I move the party to a less populated area of the plaza. Both the temple and harnquist's are known to be very busy.
I believe you don't have to go that far to be out of the "chat radius"
A very simple solution when one wants to rp without interuptions.
Cheers
Anfa
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There's more madness in this guild than what zanzibar says. Read my post in the Hydlaa Plaza board (or General Discussion, I forget) for more details. They seem to love being the center of attention. It's ok that they help people, but after catching up on this guild's history/current information, I'm beginning to get a little pissed.
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There's more madness in this guild than what zanzibar says.
Xillix is guild leader of the Vespers of Laanx...
Perhaps you should verify your facts before commenting..
Cheers
Anfa
Watcher in the Scions of Wyldewood
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I dont understand the anger.
Zanzibar, It is not lazy and they would not have sore throats because there enough of them doing it. I will have them shout no more than a certain number of times in a shift to try to soften the blow. I spend my time helping others not going from person to person asking for a handout. Honestly I feel I am doing my best to make this workable. If it helps I would request that people make the paved landing between the end of the plaza stairs a Haven for new players where they will be told vital information before being sent out to the rp world. If you want to rp try to do it below the stairs out of earshot of the temple walkway. This is in no way a demmand but a request. RP confuses new players and is difficult in their presence.
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There's more madness in this guild than what zanzibar says.
Xillix is guild leader of the Vespers of Laanx...
Perhaps you should verify your facts before commenting..
Cheers
Anfa
Watcher in the Scions of Wyldewood
Well it's been a while since I've seen her. Last time she was in the Scions. I'm not changing anything over this...
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I dont understand the anger.
Zanzibar, It is not lazy and they would not have sore throats because there enough of them doing it. I will have them shout no more than a certain number of times in a shift to try to soften the blow. I spend my time helping others not going from person to person asking for a handout. Honestly I feel I am doing my best to make this workable. If it helps I would request that people make the paved landing between the end of the plaza stairs a Haven for new players where they will be told vital information before being sent out to the rp world. If you want to rp try to do it below the stairs out of earshot of the temple walkway. This is in no way a demmand but a request. RP confuses new players and is difficult in their presence.
The temple isn't ~yours~ though. It's a place for all worshippers of Laanx to visit and pay homage. "If you don't like it, leave!" doesn't work in this case.
They seem to love being the center of attention.
So?
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I knew you would say that. Z you have no point in so saying. I did not make a claim on the temple I offered a solution to some of the troubles you had with the Vespers and a pragmatic way to deal with what happens when you have a large group of new players together in one place. Ask Einnol or Levander what can happen when the Rp and the New Players come together.
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I knew you would say that. Z you have no point in so saying. I did not make a claim on the temple I offered a solution to some of the troubles you had with the Vespers and a pragmatic way to deal with what happens when you have a large group of new players together in one place. Ask Einnol or Levander what can happen when the Rp and the New Players come together.
Your solution is for me to stay away from the laanx temple. I do not find that to be acceptable.
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You will have to read to argue with me. Now what did I say already that makes your argument invalid?
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You will have to read to argue with me. Now what did I say already that makes your arguments invalid?
You tell me. I don't see anyone taking your side in this, at least so far.
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You will have to read to argue with me. Now what did I say already that makes your argument invalid?
Im sorry for coming in so late.. but did you claim to be the Octarch? and if you did is it just for RP?
(I heard that you did somewhere.. just wondering)
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You will have to read to argue with me. Now what did I say already that makes your argument invalid?
Im sorry for coming in so late.. but did you claim to be the Octarch? and if you did is it just for RP?
(I heard that you did somewhere.. just wondering)
She claims that she was born to be the next Octarch, but that evil mages forced her into hiding and also wiped her mind until she magically regained all the memories relatively recently. There were several very large events where she affirmed her position as octarch to the objections of many (including Game Masters). Some RPed it as her being an Octarch, others RPed it as her being imposter, some did not RP it and merely dismissed her as being silly.
Personally, I RPed her as being an imposter / not Octarch. My character even made an attempt on her life, but I wasn't able to carve my way through all of her protectors.
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Here are some helpful links
I came into Yliakum with amnesia and went about the world trying to remember who I was. Months later after winning some fame for fighting prowess I posted a reward for information leading to the discovery of my true identity. Shortly after this while at the magic shop I fell into a coma. I was unresponsive with bouts of delirium. Einnol took me back to Kada El’s and I stayed in a bed there for a week or so. Then because of assassination attempts and the like I was moved to the secret fountain. I stayed in a coma and no one knew how to get me out. Until Einnol and Anfa notice the scarification on the back of my skull. At length they shaved me deciding there was some pattern to the scars. When they did they found a map that led to the stone face.
Anfa’s tale of the journey
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=22517.0
When why I awoke I took what I knew to be my rightful place as Octarch:
The rp back-story by Utm
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=22555.0
An Uproar soared In Yliakum.
Octarch
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=22511.0
More Octarch
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=22520.0
I cast aside the position of Octarch when Laanx showed his power to me by scattering the heroes of Yliakum after a lengthy discussion with some of the elder guilds. I did my charity work alone for a long while, until I felt inspired that the work could be shared and that Laanx presence should be felt in the world.
Me yesterday
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=23182.15
Me today
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=23109.0
There is of course more info than that but that should act as a primer. The website and history are soon to follow on a PS forum near you.
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Those are just stories writen about what happened. Moon's is probably the most silly. (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=22511.0)
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Great deal more than stories there in those links Valbrandr.
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Great deal more than stories there in those links Valbrandr.
Meh. Valbrandr is asking to know what happened, he's not looking to sift through probably dozens of pages of writing just to get a one sided version of fictional events.
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The Links provide a great deal about what happened both IC and OOC. The roleplaying History [as I have said in the mentioned links] is due soon. I hope it will explain the course of events from an RP perspective for those aware only through vague rumors of the events that Occurred in the life of Xillix.
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The Octarch thing is in the past, it was an attempt to add depth to the world. It was quite a bit of godrp and very much forcing others to follow her wishes and so was denounced. I doubt she had anything bad on her mind when she did it, the role was just a little bigger than she had expected but, she has learned from it.
If somebody doesn't like OOC near the temple (And many don't) then there should not be OOC near the temple...simple as that.
I don't really mind the guild, the shouting is bad, the public OOC is terrible, but they have okay goals. I don't see why you need the money though...the new players should earn that by themselves.
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The Links provide a great deal about what happened both IC and OOC. The roleplaying History [as I have said in the mentioned links] is due soon. I hope it will explain the course of events from an RP perspective for those aware only through vague rumors of the events that Occurred in the life of Xillix.
It wasn't RP. You declared yourself Octarch thinking it would be fun. Other people said "Hey, you can't do that!" while others said "Just choose a side and RP it." It's really as simple as that and you're trying to lead Valbrandr and everyone else through this little world that you've writen up when all they want are the dry goods.
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I will let others decide what they want rather than have the details of my character's history brushed aside by you. You are massively oversimplifying what is contained in those links. Also included in there is a history of who my antogonists are IC and OOC, displaying specifically who has had a problem with me and for what as well as my efforts to change my angle more to suit the omnipresence of varied ideas on the nature of roleplay. I am doing much more than acruing haters though and I hope that shines through.
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Yeah, you are also ignoring advice and going against the wishes of Talad...Good job, and it's shining through brilliantly :D
You do public OOC...a lot, hell, my chat window was full of it. If you are going to have IC and OOC then atleast have the IC outweigh the OOC.
Right now you are encouraging players to OOC, I hope you realize that.
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This is a work in progress as my other thread clearly asserts. To even remotely suggest that I have not been amenable to change it absurd. I have done countless hours of community service in this manner and despite the fact that no one is awake right now many many support my work. You fail to see the net effect of what I do entirely. You make assumptions and even presume to know what authorities in the game think about my actions. My support is not just with the players I assure you.
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I don't presume to think. Talad has stated again and again that OOC should be avoided at all costs. That is why there is no OOC channel tab.
I did not say anything about you changing, I said about taking advice. You can not use the forums as the only way to find out what the people ingame think, that would be ineffective, ignorant and all around stupid.
I also don't care about how many support your work. People are usualy wrong...If a thousand people are wrong and one is right, it doesn't change who is right :) I may have misinterpretted Talad's words...but I highly doubt that :)
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:thumbup:
I have read through this post and frankly, so what .yes shouting is annoying, But so is attacking someone just because you are to lazy to think before you decide to do some thing [RP location], you have a brain you use it if something is going to annoy you plan ahead and you could avoid your problem.
As for Valbrandr you like me give credit to the fact he has a brain and will decide for himself, based on what he sees and reads, SO please don't asume whot he will say, like me wait for his reply.
Xillix is doing a good job and indeed has asked how to improve what she does, so yes she has bent to the wishes in what she does.
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I will let others decide what they want rather than have the details of my character's history brushed aside by you. You are massively oversimplifying what is contained in those links. Also included in there is a history of who my antogonists are IC and OOC, displaying specifically who has had a problem with me and for what as well as my efforts to change my angle more to suit the omnipresence of varied ideas on the nature of roleplay. I am doing much more than acruing haters though and I hope that shines through.
I gave a simple answer to a simple question.
This is a work in progress as my other thread clearly asserts. To even remotely suggest that I have not been amenable to change it absurd. I have done countless hours of community service in this manner and despite the fact that no one is awake right now many many support my work. You fail to see the net effect of what I do entirely.
That's all beside the point.
You make assumptions and even presume to know what authorities in the game think about my actions. My support is not just with the players I assure you.
Uh, Xillix? Talad, Chaos, Karyuu, and others have been EXTREMELY clear in what they think about your actions. And no, you have players for you but also many against you.
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Suno, Zanzibar, you guys really oughta lighten up a little, if the shouts bother you so much then change the text to the same white as chat in the options or use the addignore or something. What, do you expect her to build a sigh in the plaza or something? Its really alot better than someone running around asking in a shout "where do I train strength?"
I'm sure your'e not going to take your precious time to direct newbies to the game to her, she is doing something worth while and noble and she RP's so really, consider climbing down off her back just for decency's sake huh? All this flaming sure gets old.
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Satayne, I respect your judgement...you know I do. But in this case she is encouraging shouting (Well she was, I think she stopped) and public OOC (You should see how much they OOC...by god) both of which should be used sparingly. Zanzi has a point, there are a few things she should change...Suno on the other hand just seems to hate Zanzi :P
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I do not wish to have someone come to me in game and tell me a bunch of stuff about how wrong what I am doing is and throw around Talad's authority as though it is their own, no. If you want to behave like that you can do it here where others can see it. I discuss all kind of matters in game with people every day. I doubt you have any idea how much mork has been done to get this going, or how much it has changed since inception. In the mean time call the law if you must, I have the utmost respect for the makers of the game and those that think my proactive brand of testing Is ironing out kinks. I believe I inspire a great deal of imagination in people and make for some exciting roleplaying, and during my down time in that endeavor, I gear people up to be able to take roles in those stories. What you are saying to me is you want the chance to tell someone about ooc and bracket things after they mistake it and say "I am a Noob give me a sword." It is merely etiquette unkown to the person and most are very responsive to it and take to it immediately. So they will learn to say "I am new to Yliakum." by teaching them the history. Yes I send them out of ps to do so, but they should probably not be there before having read if the world was to be as ideally well role played as you would seem to want. This is not the case many players do not read the history for weeks, even months. I dont want to defend what I do point for point because I believe the principal is sound.
Zanzibar what do you mean? Seriously none of what I said was beside the point.
Those forces have not made it clear to me and your saying so does not make it so-
Karyuu has not come out against me in a clear fashion that I recall
Waylander the spirit of what I do is being crushed out by this stange Idea that I am Ignoring Talad's wishes. My way means less unbracketed OOC and by transitivity less OOC, I teach from the start that group or tells can be OOC, but the outloud chat is to be used primarily for in character speech. I teach what that means. I root a player in the History of the land so that they can do so more effectively.
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but the outloud chat is to be used primarily for in character speech.
This is the only point I disagree with you on. The outloud chats are not just used primarily for in character speech, they should be used near-exclusively for it. You are teaching players that IC is just a cover and that your real message lies in what is between the brackets. I am glad you teach them to use brackets but you yourself use them way too much.
Outloud OOC even with brackets should be used for maybe a line of speech, at most, if it is more than that then it should be in tells or group.
This is all I am saying.
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Uh, Xillix? Talad, Chaos, Karyuu, and others have been EXTREMELY clear in what they think about your actions. And no, you have players for you but also many against you.
I Love the way you speak for others, they have a right to speak for them self's in this thread, or are you talking for them ?
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I'm sure your'e not going to take your precious time to direct newbies to the game to her, she is doing something worth while and noble and she RP's so really, consider climbing down off her back just for decency's sake huh? All this flaming sure gets old.
I have other people who I direct new players to.
Satayne, I respect your judgement...you know I do. But in this case she is encouraging shouting (Well she was, I think she stopped) and public OOC (You should see how much they OOC...by god) both of which should be used sparingly. Zanzi has a point, there are a few things she should change...Suno on the other hand just seems to hate Zanzi :P
Pretty much.
Zanzibar what do you mean? Seriously none of what I said was beside the point.
You do some good things and some bad things. The good things don't make the bad things disapear, so they're beside the point.
Karyuu has not come out against me in a clear fashion that I recall
Then our memories contradict each other and I'll speak no more of it - Karyuu can come in and speak her mind if she feels inclined to.
Uh, Xillix? Talad, Chaos, Karyuu, and others have been EXTREMELY clear in what they think about your actions. And no, you have players for you but also many against you.
I Love the way you speak for others, they have a right to speak for them self's in this thread, or are you talking for them ?
They speak for themselves. They posted when this whole thing went down, and they were very clear about it. Cha0s made an entire thread dedicated to the subject. I do not understand how there can be any confusion about this.
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Uh, Xillix? Talad, Chaos, Karyuu, and others have been EXTREMELY clear in what they think about your actions. And no, you have players for you but also many against you.
I Love the way you speak for others, they have a right to speak for them self's in this thread, or are you talking for them ?
With all due respect, if everybody who was against it and everybody who was for it came and posted the thread would be flooded :P
And Zanzi was pointing stuff out that he remembered, he was not speaking for them.
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The net effect of what I am doing is the point as I see it. always always the minutia, I will move to grouping with the new players. Find fault somewhere else for a while.
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Meh, if you use group for OOC then I am all for your guild.
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Eeee... All I was saying was that OOC should be avoided as much as possible and /tells are a better alternative. As I mentioned before, I myself have not seen first-hand what messages get sent out by Xillix or the Vespers, nor have I seen logs, so I can't provide much input.
Though if someone thinks the use of OOC text was excessive, maybe try harder to cut down on it..?
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Well did I not respond to it?
In summation
My shouts are IC I will order the guild to cut it back for the sake of those who find it annoying, but there Is nothing wrong with it.
You wanted less OOC I agreed to take my school into the group and out of the air.
Karyuu no one person will consistently satisfy everyone's idea of good role play in this or any context, I have Systematically made every effort to respond to Yliakum in an engaged and dynamic way, I has submitted myself to critique and changed by what was said.
Karyuu If you do not see how the tone of all of this might be seen as negative, accusatory, and authoritarian, not on your part, but on the part of some I am just agog.
I am all for constructive critique and people to help me figure out how to do this better and have been open to change from the beggining.
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the shouting, they don't shout very much actually, i am usually at the tavern, and i think that shouting from teh temple can be heard there. And i rarely see them, maybe you are loosing your time sense or something. And if they walked around asking everyone for money it would be annoying getting asked for money everytime, thoose who might not know xillix might even call her a n00b and say go find ur own money b3gg4r. Or something like that.
to the thing that they occupy the front of the temple, i don't mind that, praying to laanx is done inside and not outside. I like the location because you can always find it.
the ooc thing, it is nescesary to explain about the game in ooc's you can't say IC organize your spells and let the magic flow through the glyphs etc. etc. Because most new players won't even know about rp and won't be good at it, how can they translate IC to OOC then.
what's with the title anyway?
xillix continue ur work and make it progress as good as you can, it saves a lot of our time then using half of it helping newbies. :thumbup:
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Well did I not respond to it?
You did, and the beginning of my post wasn't addressed to you, but to the other posters who wanted me to be sure of my "position" on the matter.
My shouts are IC I will order the guild to cut it back for the sake of those who find it annoying, but there Is nothing wrong with it.
Except shouting is still rude, even if IC ;) If you stumble onto someone loudly yelling in the streets, you usually won't have the greatest first impression.
Karyuu no one person will consistently satisfy everyone's idea of good role play in this or any context, I have Systematically made every effort to respond to Yliakum in an engaged and dynamic way, I has submitted myself to critique and changed by what was said.
There's no need to address it to me like that :) I know that this is hard work, and one must have a strong backbone to deal with the problems such a large goal brings. I'm not criticising you - I offered suggestions based on what I felt could be improved if the shouting is indeed excessive.
Karyuu If you do not see how the tone of all of this might be seen as negative, accusatory, and authoritarian, not on your part, but on the part of some I am just agog.
Of course I notice the negative tone of many posts - it's hard to miss. But maybe their complaints have some validity too?
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Now, this may just be me, but doesn't it seem like this thread has only created MORE madness? We start with one group of players allegedly spamming and end up with a five page forum thread of quibbling :P
Just my two cents, worth less than ever thanks to inflation
josePhoenix
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I have responded to what was valid.
I hope my saying your name in a post was not bad I meant only to respond to this:
Eeee... All I was saying was that OOC should be avoided as much as possible and /tells are a better alternative. As I mentioned before, I myself have not seen first-hand what messages get sent out by Xillix or the Vespers, nor have I seen logs, so I can't provide much input.
Though if someone thinks the use of OOC text was excessive, maybe try harder to cut down on it..?
:P
I was particularly commenting on that last part. I mean if a small group of players had come out consistently critical of another's machinations I do not think it odd that one might be less than receptive to their critique. SOMEONE will always have a problem with something. I am sure everyone who has tried to do anything sizable in ps will attest to this fact. Regardless I have again changed my operating procedure to accomodate the concerns of members the community.
Except shouting is still rude, even if IC ;) If you stumble onto someone loudly yelling in the streets, you usually won't have the greatest first impression.
I still believe we are in a context where this should not be seen as rude but a "done thing," a typical mode of conducting business. The bank shouts for people, as do the gamblers, or people shouting for events. The town Crier and a whole host of other traditions that predate media come to mind. I have already said I would tone it down but I dont think I should even be pushed to in this context. The option is open to come to me in character and ask me to stop as well. Either way don't have a church bell, don't have a way to inform the new players they can come to me, I am going to shout. "Hear ye Hear ye," "bring out your dead!"
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Xillix's guild is using shortcuts to tell newcomers to visit the planeshift website. It has been encorporated into a guild-run quest that they give to each and every single new player that they meet.
Xillix and her guildmates have been completely resistant to change. Personally, I find it terribly OOC, disruptive, and annoying.
Does anyone have any comments? Agree/disagree?
Point one .. We all use shortcuts.. Even you..
Point two .. That is not true ,, She has requested sugestions and change the way she does things.
Point three .. plenty posted.. I Personally don't like shoutting but in this case it is for a good reason so i tolerate it.. She has agreed to moderat it.
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OK, yes, the shouts are spam technically, but I guess what I was trying to say was that instead of bashing her for it, maybe it would be wise to offer a solution instead. So here is mine. Maybe instead of shouting, she she should have her guild members approach each character individually and ask for donations and instead of giving them instructions in public chat, she can group them to do it. Keep in mind that we are testers and not just for the game mechanics. There are bound to be problems arising from unexpected sources. And heres something to think about, there are many cities in the world where merchants and the like stand on the street and shout about what they are selling or the local manic depressive is shouting about the end of the world. I think it adds a bit of atmosphere to the game myself.
And Zanzibar, I do think I owe you an apology for the precious time comment.
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Well i know the shout your talking about and if not for that shout i would have never kept playing the game they showed me the ropes and helped me get started. Now about the begging for tria i don't think that is true they say if you would like to donate you can but they don't beg and on the other hand i didn't say a word to them about tria and they gave me over 10000 tria just to help me get started and never asked me for anything in return.
On the other hand where i live you hear people shouting outside all the time so i think its just one of them things your just gonna have to live with. Well just a thought anyways
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I agree with Satayne with his last post. Oh and for all the complainers, how about put some of the energy towards finding a solution. You have a problem with her shouting then work with Xillix and come up with something that is comfortable for all of us. Don't look to her to just stop or come up with something to make you happy. Your the one with the issue, not her. Remember we are all testers of this game. Xillix obviously has found something that needs fixing, judging by the length of this thread. So help her come up with a solution, or tighten the lips and suck it up.
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Now, this may just be me, but doesn't it seem like this thread has only created MORE madness? We start with one group of players allegedly spamming and end up with a five page forum thread of quibbling :P
Just my two cents, worth less than ever thanks to inflation
josePhoenix
This "quibbling" is confined to a single thread that people can choose to ignore. This is not the case when you're RPing in game and suddenly this fills your chatbox:
"The first thing I have to say is that if you want my aid you must study the History of our world. [go to sewersofbabel.com/vespersoflaanx and register with your character name, and then click general, and inside there is the history of Yliakum, read it and return and I shall Reward you with another quest]"
I agree with Satayne with his last post. Oh and for all the complainers, how about put some of the energy towards finding a solution. You have a problem with her shouting then work with Xillix and come up with something that is comfortable for all of us. Don't look to her to just stop or come up with something to make you happy. Your the one with the issue, not her. Remember we are all testers of this game. Xillix obviously has found something that needs fixing, judging by the length of this thread. So help her come up with a solution, or tighten the lips and suck it up.
I've already posted a few possible solutions.
Xillix's guild is using shortcuts to tell newcomers to visit the planeshift website. It has been encorporated into a guild-run quest that they give to each and every single new player that they meet.
Xillix and her guildmates have been completely resistant to change. Personally, I find it terribly OOC, disruptive, and annoying.
Does anyone have any comments? Agree/disagree?
Point one .. We all use shortcuts.. Even you..
Point two .. That is not true ,, She has requested sugestions and change the way she does things.
Point three .. plenty posted.. I Personally don't like shoutting but in this case it is for a good reason so i tolerate it.. She has agreed to moderat it.
That was the first post of the thread, so of course it didn't take into account what was posted AFTER it, genius.
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Zanzibar you went out of your way to get that earful don't play things off as though I a courupting the world like that. I don’t see what the major trouble with the /say you lifted is.
It seems little to make such a fuss without considering the potential positive outcome.
I have already agreed to change it, I have encountered some snags as group is where I organize role plays it will take time to sort out. Just let it die already.
Snags Alleviated Thank you Josephoenix
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Where possible please respond in game IC to me as I enjoy the role play. Please do not make this thread about either the Vespers of Laanx or the Octarch; I only want advice here on how to make this work better and to let you know I am going broke.
Point two.. was referring to this from..An appeal to the guild heads and heroes of Yliakum
« on: April 17, 2006, 11:27:09 AM »
PS thanks for the complement.
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I don't see why we should respond IC to OOC issues. In fact, doing something like that is rather hazardous.
Zanzibar you went out of your way to get that earful don't play things off as though I a courupting the world like that. I don’t see what the major trouble with the /say you lifted is. It seems little to make such a fuss without considering the potential positive outcome.
I have no problem with you helping new players, but I think you should help new players in a less disruptive way.
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Alright, I looked through the post, so I will try to avoid repeating things that have already been said. In a sense, a bit of repetition would be healthy, to show that more people share the opinion that Xillix is helping people. In another, repetition is unhealthy due to the fact that circular arguments can occur. But I digress...
Many complain that the shouts are spam and clutter the logs. How many, though, have considered what it COULD be like without these shouts from the vespers? My personal opinion derived from observation is that it could quite possibly be worse. I have often heard shouts such as "Where do I sell rat parts?" or "how do I make money?" or other noobity questions (hehe... noobity). My opinion is that these shouts by the vespers curb the amount of shouts by new players, who constantly pour in. Without a single shout from the vespers once every few minutes, or whatever the interval currently is, you may have to deal with shouts from a larger number of people shouting at a far greater rate than one shout per X minutes. In this way, the occasional shout from the Vespers theoretically could vastly decrease the clutter in your logs.
Now for another issue I feel deserves attention. Before some here complain of the overuse of Shouts by the Vespers, consider the misuse of shouts by some of the more experienced players. I have personally seen where shouts are used to communicate across town instead of using tells, and I can say it is a bit frustrating, but I put up with it.
The point that shortcuts used by the Vespers makes them seem more like NPCs does have some truth, but I feel it cannot be helped. Put yourselves in their shoes for a moment, and let’s go on a journey. A new player comes to you, and asks for your help. The new player cannot understand what is going on, and seeks assistance, yet has no clue as to what he or she needs. Would you: A) give a personalized conversation lasting perhaps half an hour or more to describe the story of the game, how things work in the game, and what the player should do first; B) ignore them; C) give them a pre-saved message explaining something or possibly leading them to a site which would answer many questions they had or would soon have.
Now, imagine you have, let’s make it light, 20 players each day all coming to you with the same flabbergasted story, seeking help. B is the course I would imagine most would take. A would be inefficient, and could be quite frustrating as one answer you give only leads to several more questions. This frustration could also be compounded by a gutting of English grammar or possibly L33T. C would save the cramps in the experienced players’ hands by not having to type out the same answers again and again. C would also free up the experienced players to play the game themselves instead of taking all their time to answer the same questions over and over in answers personalized to each new player.
I tried to only write about new topics, so I apologize if I repeated too much from previous posts.
I also apologize for the long post. The consequences of its length undoubtedly will be that few will read it. :'(
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Suzuka249, two things:
1. The issue isn't that they're using shortcuts. The fact that they have it as a shortcut just makes it worse. The real problem is the OOC content, especially the URLs.
2. If two players are shouting in character, well that's how you communicate. There aren't any cell phones, and /tells are OOC except in very rare instances like whispering, or like the other cases I posted earlier in the thread.
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Zanzibar, You seem to gloss over the fact that you came over to me to be disrupted.
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Zanzibar, You seem to gloss over the fact that you came over to me to be disrupted.
Huh?
Edit: Ok, as far as I can tell - you mean that I came to the forums to disrupt you from being disruptive. In which case I'd agree, but I don't quite understand the point in pointing it out. You're entirely right in saying that I'm trying to stop you from doing something I percieve as disruptive / bad.
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Your will to oversimplify . . .
I mean that you came over to me in game to get the snippet of text you reprinted here. I have cut the shouting down but will not cease on this we are agreed. The OOC will stop as soon as the changes are made throughout my organization I have no problem with any of that. What I do not enjoy is constantly being under more acute scrutiny it this combative manner. This is the second post you have made concerning me. Many other players engage in much worse than what now goes on at the temple and you are so utterly sticking to the point of this rule and making me somehow the lightening rod for it, that you can't really see the truth that the net effect of what I have done has reduced the incidence of things you and others dislike. You seem to be good at arguing why I do not need shout for donations, you tore into the back-story created by UTM to explain one person's version of my character's history. Berated and tried to assassinate me in game, and have spoken out against me on numerous fronts. It borders on harassment. I have seen elsewhere how you seem to dangle at the edge of this place like a spider waiting for someone to make it jingle so you can feed. Attracted to poor logic and any inconsistency or lack of knowledge of the settings you seem to gravitate toward snide comments from a position of power. I will not satisfy that urge.
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The text I quoted was from someone in your guild, not you.
The reason this all bothers me is because it was a regular occurence by regulars, not just new players who don't know any better. The reason why I've made you the focus is because you're the one in charge of it. And no, my stink isn't about the /shouts. It's about the OOC text in the blurbs. It's others who started talking about the shouts. Personally, I think that going up to people and using /say is preferable anyway because people tend to dislike it when people use the /shout command unless there's a really good reason for it. And yes, I'm not a fan of the way UTM tried to resolve things because in my opinion he ignored the fundamental problem behind what happened.
As far as trying to assassinate you in game, I thought you started this whole RP based on some new god that you introduced to Planeshift asking people to assassinate you? Yeah, there was a reward in it for whoever managed to kill you. And now you're complaining about it? You can't have it both ways. Either you wanted people to try to assassinate you or you didn't. As I recall, you had quite a few people come after you and you welcomed it. So don't change your story now.
And if you think this is harassment, you're just a sillypants.
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As far as trying to assassinate you in game, I thought you started this whole RP based on some new god that you introduced to Planeshift
From the History section of the settings..
http://www.planeshift.it/setting_history.html
Guided by an ancient and powerful god, named Vodùl, god of the future events, they discovered one quiet planet with a crystal column full of energy and mystery. Together, they explored the depths of the planet where the majestic obelisk has its roots, full to the brim and quivering with the azure energy.
Cheers
Anfa
Watcher of the Scions of Wyldewood
[Xillix stated many times that she took the name of the God from the settings again perhaps more research by players before commenting would be in order]
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i'd say stop this maddness threat, it is turning into harrasment imo. Close it and delete everything else that puts up this meaningless discussion about how bad she is and going back in time and fiscuss that, have already been discussed get it over with already :@#\ X-/
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Guys, often when I come on the forum I see flaming post or people making an elephant from a mouse.
Wouldn't it be easier for everyone moral and fun to have fix the problem in private message? It could have solve that way.
It's not as if she did something VERY annoying and big, at least it was to help new members AND! I don't see many people doing so in game, well not that publicly.
I agree totally with the post of Satayne (the one that Zorbels agreed with). Those situations will happen, problems must be solve and topic like : "You agree or not with her attitude" doesn't bring anything.
Anyone that have done some basic psychology or learned effective way to solve problems surly have learned that the best way is putting solution forward and not "attacking" the people.
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The idea that this is disruptive is absurd, completely. Whoever you came up to to hear that from you still went out of your way the range of a /say is not that far. What I am doing is not disruptive many people have already stated that it is in fact far less disruptive than the alternative, which is allowing the majority of new players to work without a net. I am a sillypants btw and generally good-natured and kind friendly and fun loving. Honestly though Zanzibar you are coming off like a heckler now. Please go look for something else to get uptight about for a while.
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As this thread is starting to aggravate a lot of people, it's best to draw it to a close.
Last words: Xillix is trying very hard to contribute to the community and make the experience of new players much warmer. She is open to constructive criticism on her techniques. If there are problems, I think it would make better sense to try to discuss this with her in private first - whether in-game or through PMs or using another medium.