PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Datruth on October 09, 2006, 03:34:09 am
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Today i had a horrible experience with a new player who had focused on Increasing his magic.
His weapon skills were terrible but his magic skills were much better than mine.
He insulted me after i spoke to a new guild member of mine, and while i was walking away. The absolute worst time.
I walked back and Challenged him.
I got ready for a duel, weapon to weapon, but as i came to find out, he ran as far as he could and used energy arrow against me.
Now, IF you are going to use magic, PLEASE specify it before you duel. I was shocked, i wanted it to be weapon to weapon but he starts using his cheap arrows.
In 3 seconds i'm down to 20% health.
Now what he did wasn't necessarily wrong, If no rules are specified you can use Magic, Even though it's cheap, But that also means, IF YOU DO NOT SPECIFY THE RULES, that the other party can use potions.
So I used 3 potions, and i chased after him, I caught up to him after 3 minutes of continuous running. I mean literally 3 minutes of running, the guy ran his butt off, he ran as fast as he could away from me.
I caught him and killed him.
He said i shouldn't have used Potions, i said he shouldn't have used Magic, it's obvious, IF you are going to use magic, SPECIFY it before the duel, or else you're calling a FREE for All.
Theme of this story, Don't be cheap and use magic without warning your opponnent, if you do you're calling a for a free for all where no rules apply.
Here are the different types of Duels and how they are carried about:
Normal Duel
1) One person challenges another, no magic or potions.
2) You duel and don't run, average time of duel about 30 seconds, can go up to a minute though..
3) Someone dies and you are done. The best man has won.
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Free for all
1) You don't warn your opponent and you use either Potions or Magic.
2) That is a signal for your opponent to use whatever he chooses.
3) Someone dies, not necessarily because of their dueling skill. Average time of duel, varies.
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Magic duel
1) You stipulate magic will be allowed in this duel and you may even specify which types of magic.
2) You do not allow Potions, this is stipulated before the duel as well.
3) You fight and the Best man wins. Average time about 10 seconds.
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There are certain people who will try and win a duel by not warning their opponent of magic.
They instinctively train Magic to it's highest point, run away, and try and kill the enemy as fast as possible.
On rare cases they meet someone like me who has Max health, and they have just enough time to heal themselves and strike back.
Then you will notice that those same people will be mad and label people like me cheats.
They are the real cheat. They do not to warn their opponent, they do not fight honorably, and they try and kill their opponent as fast as possible.
They will use the technique of accepting the challenge, running away, and killing you within 3 seconds using Arrows.
Such people do exhist, and do not understand honor.
Hope this helps everyone in their dueling adventures.
Also, don't randomly insult strangers, you will see the consequences, as this person did.
~~Datruth
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Etiquette is only for characters who like to play it nice (http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6695/happyfaicxk6.gif)
Using magic without warning your opponent is in no way cheap or bad. In my opinion free-for-alls are the default unless you both agree to something beforehand. I wasn't aware that you are now required to "decide" on a duel type before attacking someone. Being caught unaware is great sometimes - makes you go "Woah, how fun - I didn't expect that at all." So you get your ass kicked sometimes because of that, but so what? What's a game without an element of danger ;)
If someone starts complaining afterwards though, hammer-to-the-head for them. Before they challenge or accept they need to make their requests clear if they have certain 'needs.'
Randomly insulting strangers can be great IC, too.
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The etiquette is for the players themselves, not the characters. This is so everyone can have fun, and no one gets sore after a duel they saw as unfair because they 'thought' it was going to be something other than what it was. I see what the person did to Datruth as a form of greifing, if only a mild one. If your aim is to trick the player behind the character in a bad way, then that is wrong.
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I don't think that anyone should be required to go out of character and ask the other party "What kind of duel is this going to be?" If the character of one of the players wants a certain kind of duel, like using magic only, the character has to say so. Not the player. The player has nothing to do with any of these choices. If you're challenged and before accepting your character doesn't lay down some rules, you're the one to blame - because by default, anything goes.
*edit*
Moreover, how is using magic tricking the player? Did the two of them agree on using weapons and then the other player switched to magic? If the answer is no, then what happened is simply the unexpected - but in no way is it "griefing."
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Its simple really. Don't challenge people unless you are ready to expect anything. (unless agreed to specifics beforehand)
Mr Magic user did nothing wrong. He was challenged, he used the skills he had to his advantage. If you challenge someone and don't like thier duelling tactics, then you shouldn't be challenging people before first explaining what type of duel you are wanting. Anthing else, roll with the punches.
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His 'wrong' was expecting to be able to stand back and pummel someone without that person being able to use potions, or defend themselves. His death was just. :)
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Like I said, if you don't establish some rules beforehand, you don't have any right to complain :] This applies to both parties however. That includes insulting the other player's choice to use magic and "cheap arrows."
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Like I said, if you don't establish some rules beforehand, you don't have any right to complain :] This applies to both parties however. That includes insulting the other player's choice to use magic and "cheap arrows."
I understand karyuu, he has the right to use magic without telling me.
That then makes the Duel a Free for all with no rules.
Thus i can use Potions.
So he has no right to complain if i do use them.
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Magic is allowed, potions are cheap. Stop whining about someone using magic against you. He shouldn't have to specify he uses magic, just like you shouldn't have to specify you use weapons. Hiding and shooting with magic is strategy, not cheap. >.>
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Magic is allowed, potions are cheap. Stop whining about someone using magic against you. He shouldn't have to specify he uses magic, just like you shouldn't have to specify you use weapons. Hiding and shooting with magic is strategy, not cheap. >.>
There are magic duels, and there are weapons duels.
A magic duel v.s a Weapon, Magic always wins, no contest, Why, because you can shoot from far away and kill in 5 hits.
Weapon v.s Weapon, Even.
Magic v.s Magic Even.
If you want to be honorable, and if you want a fair fight, you express which duel you would like.
OR ELSE, you get a free for all.
It's obvious suno, Magic will always beat Weapons.
I used Potions to even the odds.
Why? Because it was a free for all and the man obviously didn't want a fair fight.
~~Datruth
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No, magic doesn't always beat weapons. Once we're able to have bows, it'll go both way. And even with melee weapons against magic, melee can still win. All you need to do is corner the magic-using guy. There's no such thing as a magic vs. weapon, magic vs. magic, or weapon vs. weapon. You can use whatever you want whenever you want, so stop complaining and go learn magic or something.
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What I don't understand is how insults become a mortal affair. Take off your gloves and punch it out till someone cries uncle. Just how uncivilised a place is this? Perhaps someday it could be developed that PVP unarmed combat results not in death but knockdown. Anyone using a weapon or magic in a fist fight gets some kind of negative karma effect and if it results in death becomes branded a murderer for all to see. What a bunch of bloodthirsty trolls we have among us.
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No, magic doesn't always beat weapons. Once we're able to have bows, it'll go both way. And even with melee weapons against magic, melee can still win.
You just made an assumption, you said ONCE we are able to have bows, it'll go both ways. That's not a fact, you haven't seen the bow system, and you have nothing to support your statement, it is baseless.
You admit in that same sentance than, that right now magic has a HUGE advantage over Melee, you say ONCE we have bows, THEN it'll go both ways, meaning now it doesn't and if you play the game often you'll know that this is a fact.
A MAJORITY OF THE TIME, 99%, Magic will always beat weapons, why?
1) Magic players will only use magic if it's trained very high, so it's very effective, 5 or less arrows is a kill.
2) The meelee player will not be ready for the magic and if he does not have MAX health like me, he will die alot quicker.
3) MAGIC is a ranged skill, arrows can be very effective, and you can be either close or far to win, where MElee you MUST be close enough to slash, and then again your slash could miss.
I can't believe you would argue that Magic v.s Melee, melee wins a good percentage of the time.
That just isn't true, Magic versus Melee, Magic wins a VASt majority of the time.
All you need to do is corner the magic-using guy. There's no such thing as a magic vs. weapon, magic vs. magic, or weapon vs. weapon.
How do you corner the guy? Are you aware, that people can run through other people in this game... i would think you would know that by now.
That idea is just silly, i doubt you actually re read your own post and thought about that.
And yes, Those were definitions i used and defined in my first post, they do exist, whether you choose to use those definitions or not.
You can use whatever you want whenever you want, so stop complaining and go learn magic or something.
I agree in a sense, If you choose to be like that, if you choose to use whatever you want, then that means your opponent may do the same.
Thus You and your opponent can now use potions.
You can see, this doesn't show skill and you're just wasting your time.
If you want to have a meaningfull fight, Stick to Melee v.s Melee, or Magic v.s Magic.
Don't trick your opponent and make it a free for all.
And Suno, I shoulnd't have to be forced to train anything, if i don't wanna learn magic to the max, i do not have to. To suggest such a thing shows your demanding state of mind, and i question whether you are looking at this rationally.
~~Datruth
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How are you sure that your opponent wanted a "meaningful" fight? The character started insulting yours, so there's already a small sign he may not be willing to even the odds. There is absolutely no tricking involved here, and your expectations do not dictate reality - especially when they are unvoiced. Unless you specifically agreed beforehand that there will be no using magic, why be surprised? You don't want to learn magic, and the other character may not want to study any weapons. The only real conflict turns out to be his complaining of your potion use at the end - to which you've had every right - and this is something you need to resolve with that player next time.
It's only very recently that I stopped seeing "Magic is so underpowered!" posts here. Now it's evidently the easiest way to win a duel?
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Seems to me that the dueling system isn't so much a dueling system as it is a check on rampant murder. Where were your seconds, where was the agreement to meet at dawn. did the challenged have the right to choose weapons? Perhaps what you needed to do was to roleplay it up a bit. Did you /me slaps Miscreant with my glove? Apparently not. Did you speak to him at all? Not that you mention. You just used the game mechanics to see if you could proceed and then attempted murder. Or so it appears from your story. There are no rules to murder. If you had stopped long enough to discuss the means of the dual perhaps the one or the other of you could have named a champion so that the fight would be on common terms. Personally I have auto-refuse on all my characters so that if someone wants to duel me they have to say so and I can decide at that point whether to proceed.
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There are magic duels, and there are weapons duels.
A magic duel v.s a Weapon, Magic always wins, no contest, Why, because you can shoot from far away and kill in 5 hits.
Weapon v.s Weapon, Even.
Magic v.s Magic Even.
If you want to be honorable, and if you want a fair fight, you express which duel you would like.
OR ELSE, you get a free for all.
It's obvious suno, Magic will always beat Weapons.
I used Potions to even the odds.
Why? Because it was a free for all and the man obviously didn't want a fair fight.
~~Datruth
If you seriously think that magic vs weapon always wins you need to practice your duel skills. Magic takes time to cast, and when you're casting you need to move slowly. That gives you enough time to run up to the guy and whack him. Using potions in any duel is cheating unless the players agree to it. Your posts sound as if you had the authority to rule over this when you don't. So, get a grip. You panicked and cheated and you should've lost. Next time pick your arena, state your rules of engagement before the duel and don't think that because a player "won't require any effort to defeat", you'll always win.
That player didn't do anything wrong. You did, no matter how you rationalize it.
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Using potions in any duel is cheating unless the players agree to it.
It is..? >.> To me it's just another tool.
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There was a discussion about that topic awhile back karyuu. The argument was, the way it is now, you can chug a couple hundred potions in a very very short amount of time with hotkeys, so they call it cheating. I simply call it "using a underdeveloped game mechanic" myself.
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Datruth,
Using potions in a duel is not "technically" cheating, in that you will not get kicked by a GM for using them in a duel. However, I have participated in hundreds of duel over the last 6 months (it takes a lot of duels to get 410 duel points), and the general consensus is that using healing potions in a duel is completely without honor, skill, or scruples. It takes absolutely no skill to carry 100 Greater Potions of Healing, and takes no skill whatsoever to down them with a single keypress. I've seen you around for a long time, Datruth, and you should know this by now.
I can tell you've had very little dueling experience since you think magic has the upper hand. It is very easy to kill someone who is using nothing but magic. They can't run while casting, only walk slowly, and even the strongest mages have to hit you 7 or 8 times to kill you. How hard is it to hit a practically stationary mage in the 60 seconds it takes them to cast?! I've spent many hours dueling with very skilled duelers in the Death Realm, and I can tell you quite confidently, magic-only NEVER wins against anyone who knows anything about dueling. The only time it was a factor was to pick off someone who was nearly dead from your weapons. But since 3.015, we all do much more damage, so every hit from a trained character will kill in one hit.
Now it sounds like you were not only fighting against someone who only uses magic, but also a noob. So let me get this straight... this noob was most likely using Summoned Missiles, since it takes so long to train to be able to use Energy Arrows... that means to get you to 10%, he must have hit you, what, 15 times? In all that time, you were unable to hit him just once?! Then, to top it off, after this noob clearly bested you with skill, you had the audacity and cowardice to mash your "/use greater potion of healing" key?
Yet here you are, in the forums, attacking this "horrible noob" who didn't follow your imagined rules of "no magic." You kill him dishonorably and cowardly when it sounds like he worked hard to earn a victory... then you come here and whine about it.
You seem to lump magic with potions, yet they are not even similar. Potions take a single keypress, instantly take effect, take no training to use, cost very little, and cannot be defended against. Using magic missiles/arrows takes many, many casting to kill someone as strong as surely you are, and can only be successful with a great deal of skill. Training Crystal Way is very time consuming and expensive. So what I'm saying is, potions take no skill or effort, while magic takes much skill to use, and much investment in time and trias to get even somewhat strong with.
Stop your whining, Datruth, and stop using potions in duels, particularly with much weaker players that clearly bested you any way you look at it. I'd like to know who this noob was, so I can congratulate him on his victory.
-Drahlian
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There was a discussion about that topic awhile back karyuu. The argument was, the way it is now, you can chug a couple hundred potions in a very very short amount of time with hotkeys, so they call it cheating. I simply call it "using a underdeveloped game mechanic" myself.
That wasn't the case though, i used three, that's it. I wouldn't have used a million either.
And Arrows are very fast Daehaz, after you press the hotkey on them, you can move all you want before they trigger. You do not have to stay stationary. The only part you do is the beginning and End, in between you can run like crazy, which he did.
And no, Daehaz, YOU CANNOT quickly whack a person in PVP using swords.
There is a Delay, in case you have ever dueled you know about this delay.
I agree with Karyuu though, why am i so mad at him, he could have been inherently bad and sneaky.
To tell you the truth, i don't know what his RP was, he just called me a coward outright for no good reason while i was walking away.
So again, it might have been his RP, so i shouldn't be so mad.
I'm not saying what he did was wrong, he initiated a free for all, anything goes, just like Suno said.
I reacted and used his same logic. And again, 3 potions, not a million. And i didn't hotkey them, i dragged them from my inventory. And they were only Regular Healing potions, nothing special. I used all 3 at the beginning, and then i didn't use any more.
It's not like he hit me, and i used one, he hit me, i used one. It wasn't like that. It was like this, he hit me 3 or 4 times, i was at 20%, i used 3 potions, and i went after him, he nearly killed me but i chased him down for 3 minutes.
End of story.
He choose to run away and use magic, initiated a free for all, and i responded the same way, just as suno said.
~~Datruth
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And Arrows are very fast Daehaz, after you press the hotkey on them, you can move all you want before they trigger. You do not have to stay stationary. The only part you do is the beginning and End, in between you can run like crazy, which he did.
And no, Daehaz, YOU CANNOT quickly whack a person in PVP using swords.
There is a Delay, in case you have ever dueled you know about this delay.
Yes, in case you're wondering Datruth I do duel a lot. Do you? Looks like you don't have much experience in dueling with magic either. As both Drahlian and I have explained, when you're casting you can't run. You can walk, yes but you won't go far. Worried about your timing? Then don't run up to your target and hit your attack button there. Do that at 2 secs of distance. Sure, it won't be precise 100% but the person won't be able to do anything if they are still casting, otherwise they will interrupt their cast, which gives you enough of a window of opportunity to attack a few good times. There you go, Whack 101. Now, you would know this if you dueled more but that's not the point. Using potions, be it 1 or 100 is not honorable (especially if you can one hit-kill and your opponent can't).
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Now it sounds like you were not only fighting against someone who only uses magic, but also a noob. So let me get this straight... this noob was most likely using Summoned Missiles, since it takes so long to train to be able to use Energy Arrows... that means to get you to 10%, he must have hit you, what, 15 times? In all that time, you were unable to hit him just once?! Then, to top it off, after this noob clearly bested you with skill, you had the audacity and cowardice to mash your "/use greater potion of healing" key?
He clearly used energy arrow, and his Crystal way was max. He is what i consider a pure mage, Doens't train Weapons much but has trained his magic to the full. That means CHA, INT, Crystal way, and probably END was full.
He used only 5 arrows, at most, drahilian.
Yet here you are, in the forums, attacking this "horrible noob" who didn't follow your imagined rules of "no magic." You kill him dishonorably and cowardly when it sounds like he worked hard to earn a victory... then you come here and whine about it.
I didn't just stand there smart one, I did go after him. And who keeps saying he's a noob, No one said he was. The only place he can be considered noobish is his melee skills or his Knowledge of dueling.
And what's with this aggressive language drahilian, no need to be so rude, "dishonorably, cowardly, whine about it".
Can we discuss this like humans, and not mud sling at each other. I'm sure i could call you a few words too, i choose not to though.
You seem to lump magic with potions, yet they are not even similar. Potions take a single keypress, instantly take effect, take no training to use, cost very little, and cannot be defended against. Using magic missiles/arrows takes many, many casting to kill someone as strong as surely you are, and can only be successful with a great deal of skill. Training Crystal Way is very time consuming and expensive. So what I'm saying is, potions take no skill or effort, while magic takes much skill to use, and much investment in time and trias to get even somewhat strong with.
Magic has an inherent advantage over Melee, in all cases. Imagine a fully trained Mage, starting the duel and running away from their opponoent, they are now far away from you, you turn around and you get hit with 2 arrows, you run at them and you get hit with 2 more. You are now at 20%.
PLUS, You can cast a spell, MOVE, and then when it's about to go off stand still. So NO mages don't have to stand still the whole time. I saw him do it and i myself have done that in the past to get away from NPCs.
Stop your whining, Datruth, and stop using potions in duels, particularly with much weaker players that clearly bested you any way you look at it. I'd like to know who this noob was, so I can congratulate him on his victory.
-Drahlian
Get the facts strait drahilian and stop mud slinging. We all know bad words, some choose to use them, others have a bigger vocabulary. You don't know what you're talking about, you weren't there, and this was no victory by him.
He choose to get rid of all rules by using magic, without stipulating it at the beginning. Therefore i used 3 potions at the beginning to even the odds.
And i'm sorry, but any Mage Versus a Sword fighter will have a Distinct advantage.
~~Datruth
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And Arrows are very fast Daehaz, after you press the hotkey on them, you can move all you want before they trigger. You do not have to stay stationary. The only part you do is the beginning and End, in between you can run like crazy, which he did.
Datruth, it takes 30 seconds to a minute to kill a strong player with missiles or arrows. More for missiles, less for arrows. It is obvious that you have never once used magic in a duel, as you cannot "run like crazy" while casting. The moment you run, your spell is broken, though you are still vulnerable and cannot attack while the spell finishes. You can slowly walk, but not run.
And no, Daehaz, YOU CANNOT quickly whack a person in PVP using swords.
There is a Delay, in case you have ever dueled you know about this delay.
Again you are wrong, Datruth. The speed on a short sword, as you surely know, is 2.0. This means there is about a 2 second delay from when you press attack, to when your weapon hits. Considering a missile/arrow takes around 6 seconds to cast while standing practically stationary, Daehaz is correct... A sword can "quickly" take out someone who is vulnerable while casting their pea-shooter.
I reacted and used his same logic. And again, 3 potions, not a million. And i didn't hotkey them, i dragged them from my inventory. And they were only Regular Healing potions, nothing special. I used all 3 at the beginning, and then i didn't use any more.
It's not like he hit me, and i used one, he hit me, i used one. It wasn't like that. It was like this, he hit me 3 or 4 times, i was at 20%, i used 3 potions, and i went after him, he nearly killed me but i chased him down for 3 minutes.
I have a feeling you used 3 potions because 3 potions was what you needed to heal. Had he shot you with more arrows, would you have then let him shoot you to death, or used 3 more? And then three more? I'll bet he started running right after you used potions. I think I know why... he knew it was futile to try to beat you again and again and again until you ran out of potions.
If I were in your position, Datruth, I would have /yielded when I was nearly dead, and congratulated him on his skillful fighting. But that is because I value honor above winning. I sleep better that way.
-Drahlian
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And Arrows are very fast Daehaz, after you press the hotkey on them, you can move all you want before they trigger. You do not have to stay stationary. The only part you do is the beginning and End, in between you can run like crazy, which he did.
And no, Daehaz, YOU CANNOT quickly whack a person in PVP using swords.
There is a Delay, in case you have ever dueled you know about this delay.
Yes, in case you're wondering Datruth I do duel a lot. Do you? Looks like you don't have much experience in dueling with magic either. As both Drahlian and I have explained, when you're casting you can't run. You can walk, yes but you won't go far. Worried about your timing? Then don't run up to your target and hit your attack button there. Do that at 2 secs of distance. Sure, it won't be precise 100% but the person won't be able to do anything if they are still casting, otherwise they will interrupt their cast, which gives you enough of a window of opportunity to attack a few good times. There you go, Whack 101. Now, you would know this if you dueled more but that's not the point. Using potions, be it 1 or 100 is not honorable (especially if you can one hit-kill and your opponent can't).
How many duel points do you have Daehaz?
Let's see how much you duel, I am pretty sure i have much more than you.
And no, what you described will not work because again while they are casting they can move, only at the beginning and end do they have to stop.
And have you heard of missed slashes? These are very frequent and 2 of them can cause in a loss.
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Looks like you need a demonstration. Fine, add me to your buddy list. See you in game.
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The moment you guys start to base your experience on duel points is the moment all hope is lost. Numbers are meaningless. Someone could yield all the time but know a lot more about duels than someone who kills their opponents. I think Bilbous raised a really good point in this thread however - does your character really mean to kill anyone who calls him a coward? That's rather extreme.
*edit*
Datruth, please use the quote tag. Reading one giant quoted mass like that is extremely difficult.
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And Arrows are very fast Daehaz, after you press the hotkey on them, you can move all you want before they trigger. You do not have to stay stationary. The only part you do is the beginning and End, in between you can run like crazy, which he did.
Datruth, it takes 30 seconds to a minute to kill a strong player with missiles or arrows. More for missiles, less for arrows. It is obvious that you have never once used magic in a duel, as you cannot "run like crazy" while casting. The moment you run, your spell is broken, though you are still vulnerable and cannot attack while the spell finishes. You can slowly walk, but not run.
You agree movement is allowed, well guess what, all you really need to do is move a little, remember Swords need to be within close range. And they miss often.
And no, Daehaz, YOU CANNOT quickly whack a person in PVP using swords.
There is a Delay, in case you have ever dueled you know about this delay.
Again you are wrong, Datruth. The speed on a short sword, as you surely know, is 2.0. This means there is about a 2 second delay from when you press attack, to when your weapon hits. Considering a missile/arrow takes around 6 seconds to cast while standing practically stationary, Daehaz is correct... A sword can "quickly" take out someone who is vulnerable while casting their pea-shooter.
Drahilian, you yourself said a mage could move, they don't need to run quickly away, Swords need to be in close proximity to the player to hit. You running at him and him walking to your right shoulder will cause you to miss the slash and have to turn and run again.
I reacted and used his same logic. And again, 3 potions, not a million. And i didn't hotkey them, i dragged them from my inventory. And they were only Regular Healing potions, nothing special. I used all 3 at the beginning, and then i didn't use any more.
It's not like he hit me, and i used one, he hit me, i used one. It wasn't like that. It was like this, he hit me 3 or 4 times, i was at 20%, i used 3 potions, and i went after him, he nearly killed me but i chased him down for 3 minutes.
I have a feeling you used 3 potions because 3 potions was what you needed to heal. Had he shot you with more arrows, would you have then let him shoot you to death, or used 3 more? And then three more? I'll bet he started running right after you used potions. I think I know why... he knew it was futile to try to beat you again and again and again until you ran out of potions.
If I were in your position, Datruth, I would have /yielded when I was nearly dead, and congratulated him on his skillful fighting. But that is because I value honor above winning. I sleep better that way.
-Drahlian
3 wasn't all i needed, i needed atleast 2 more but i couldn't drag them fast enough, he would have hit me.
He didn't use skillfull fighting, he was shady and didn't stay to the rules of engagement, he started his magic without warning me, which triggered a free for all.
You again assume i would have used infinite potions, in all reality i wouldn't because i would have told myself, the surprise is over now i know he has magic and now we have a fair fight.
~~Datruth
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Fine daehaz, have it your way, next time we're in game, we'll meet up in the DR, and have a best of 5 Duel.
Better start training now.
~~Datruth
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There are no "rules of engagement" - I think you keep missing this point. Using magic without warning your opponent is fine. How is it more fair when you know he has magic? You state that magic is impossible to beat anyway, and you don't train it.
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There are no "rules of engagement" - I think you keep missing this point.
There are rules of engagement, althought they arn't enforced by you karyuu, consider it player rules.
I think all the players agree with this point, although we disagree when it comes to use of potions.
I say potions are o.k in a Free for all to get over the surprise magic attack.
Using magic without warning your opponent is fine. How is it more fair when you know he has magic?
Yes, because the intial surprise is gone, when you see him running away from you, you won't ask why. You already know why and know what he is about to do, you understand his technique.
You state that magic is impossible to beat anyway, and you don't train it.
THAt is a COMPLETE LIE. I'm sorry but there is no truth to that.
Magic can be beat, if you know it's coming and you have a plan. Surprise magic is harder but still possible, just very rare.
And yes i do train magic, Crystal way, and my CHA is nearly max.
Please don't make false assumptions.
~~Datruth
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Magic can be beat, if you know it's coming and you have a plan. Surprise magic is harder but still possible, just very rare.
*sigh* I think you're taking this a bit too personal when it's not and in doing so you are being stubborn. You can't beat someone using magic? You need practice. That's all. I can't run 10k but if I practice I will. No point in claiming it is impossible just because you can't do it.
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Fine daehaz, have it your way, next time we're in game, we'll meet up in the DR, and have a best of 5 Duel.
Better start training now.
~~Datruth
Datruth,
Considering someone bested you with nothing but magic, I can easily guess the outcome. I know Daehaz, and have dueled with him dozens of times. He is no beginner, is skilled in both magic and weapons, and would never be defeated by magic alone.
-Drahlian
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I misread one of your previous posts - you said that you don't want to train it to the max.
The "player rules" you seem to hold dear aren't even agreed upon by the players, however. We have yet to see one person in this thread besides you who thinks that you should warn your opponent that you're going to use magic before actually using it.
As for your other comment:
Magic can be beat, if you know it's coming and you have a plan. Surprise magic is harder but still possible, just very rare.
A magic duel v.s a Weapon, Magic always wins, no contest, Why, because you can shoot from far away and kill in 5 hits.
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Magic can be beat, if you know it's coming and you have a plan. Surprise magic is harder but still possible, just very rare.
*sigh* I think you're taking this a bit too personal when it's not and in doing so you are being stubborn. You can't beat someone using magic? You need practice. That's all. I can't run 10k but if I practice I will. No point in claiming it is impossible just because you can't do it.
WHEN did i ever claim it was impossible, please show me that quote, i never said it was impossible. What's with this chain of ignorance here. Did you even read the previous posts?
And i'm sure i can take you down Daehaz, so next time i see you we'll do a little less talking and a little more fighting.
~~Datruth
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Chain of ignorance? You're forgetting what you yourself posted now ;P
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Fine daehaz, have it your way, next time we're in game, we'll meet up in the DR, and have a best of 5 Duel.
Better start training now.
~~Datruth
Datruth,
Considering someone bested you with nothing but magic, I can easily guess the outcome. I know Daehaz, and have dueled with him dozens of times. He is no beginner, is skilled in both magic and weapons, and would never be defeated by magic alone.
-Drahlian
Noone bested me with magic, i won that duel.
And you should watch your statements, You just stated Daehaz could never be defeated by magic alone. We could put that to the test.
I hope he wouldn't mind me getting a fellow mage of mine and having him face him 10 times. I can guarentee you a majority of those wins will be made by my friend.
And as far as me and daehaz, we all can blow off steam all we want. I'm better, your better, he's better. They are all words.
My pinky has more DP and more experience than his whole body ever will. This will be proven when we meet for the best of 5 dueling match.
~~Datruth
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ME I really don't get you at all Datruth .... you say when you started dueling he ran ... all races run at the same speed .... so why not run after him as soon as he started running .. instead of letting him get far from you? I also know that if somone begins to run I either run backwards ao they are compellty out of range or I switch to arrows and shoot them down .... or I run after them to where they have no time to cast a spell. I have been playing for nearley a year now and have only lost to magic when I was new .... somone using magic is very easy to beat.
Also no matter what a dual is free for all ... unless specified before the duel. That means it was free for all before he even used magic. If you didn't want to have magic involved then you should have specified it, not him.
Also as stated before magic is no where neer like potions .... magic take a very long time to train whee a potion can be bought in a matter of seconds. Also in all RP sense ... he is not a mind reader and knows you didn't want magic involved. Everyone has there own skills .... his skills where magic .... you decided to duel a mage so it's your fault. Do not duel unless you know what your up against.
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*Sighs again* The point is that magic is not "rarely beaten" by steel but rather the opposite. Why? Because all you need to is one lucky strike with a good blade and the duel's over whereas the caster requires 5 or more arrows to win, each requiring some time to cast and limiting their movement, making them an easier target and giving you more chances to try. You can't do it, then keep practicing. Again, I think you're taking this personal when it is not.
EDIT: Datruth, I never said I was better than you. Blow off steam? I'm trying to explain a simple fact of dueling here but you're taking it the wrong way. And don't worry. I'll approach you in-game when i have the chance to illustrate my point (and with that objective only). You say you're better than me? Fine, you are. Big time! Here, a flower for your brave pinkie toe :flowers: (well, if the DP in it leave any room).
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Yes, in case you're wondering Datruth I do duel a lot. Do you? Looks like you don't have much experience in dueling with magic either.
There you go, Whack 101. Now, you would know this if you dueled more but that's not the point. Using potions, be it 1 or 100 is not honorable (especially if you can one hit-kill and your opponent can't).
Looks like you need a demonstration. Fine, add me to your buddy list. See you in game.
EDIT: Datruth, I never said I was better than you. Blow off steam? I'm trying to explain a simple fact of dueling here but you're taking it the wrong way. And don't worry. I'll approach you in-game when i have the chance to illustrate my point (and with that objective only). You say you're better than me? Fine, you are. Big time! Here, a flower for your brave pinkie toe :flowers: (well, if the DP in it leave any room).
You clearly say you have more experience than me in dueling and you are clearly agressive. And then you say that you never said you were better than me?
Too late to play the high ground now, leave that up to the politicians.
~~Datruth
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Now, let's get a few facts straight.
Does Datruth have an inability to move sideways as he his running? Surely for this reason, his enemy could not have walked away to the side.
Is Datruth now just threatening to duel Daehaz (no rules) and started this post wanting "more even duels"
Magic is just as honourable as melee, I agree with tssthorn. Rant over.
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I see 4 faults here.
1) As the issuer of the initial request to duel, it was Datruth's fault for not not stating what type of duel it was to be before sending the request. (If it would have been to me, I would have denied it right away simply for that reason. the whole point of the request to duel and trade stuff is that you should ask in character before sending the request.) As such, a "free for all" type duel is default, which Datruth should have realised. Fault one is that Datruth did not realise this. As it has been stated, don't request to duel unless you know what you're getting into. Getting upset about the oponents tactics in said duel when no defined rules have been paved out, only makes you yourself look bad.
And this doesn't even take into the account of what happens if you were to duel a dishonset character that would agree to the terms of a duel and then simply ignore said rules once the duel began. It would all be in character, as long as that is the type of character they play. Dishonest characters don't have to follow the rules they agree to. That's why they are dishonest.
2) The fault by him was when he got mad at Dutruth for using a potion. A free for all is a free for all. Using a game mechanic is just that. As it stands right now, that means you can chug 100s of potions with a push of a button. It won't be like that forever. Use the game as it is, adjust strategies when things change. Come into the forums and state how things are now, and how you would like them changed for the future. Then wait until things change and use the current system as it was designed to be used.
3) When the magic user ran away, Datruth did not run after them. They assumed something about the magic user. There is a wise saying about assuming things. Since it has a bad word in it so to speak, I won't mention it here. Point being, when you assume things, you run the risk of things happening you hadn't planned on. Then you must learn to deal with those unexpected happenings. Much of a man's character can be revieled by the way the handle unexpected events.
4) And finally. This is a freaking game! Why do people get so worked up over something so pointless? Oh darn, your DP might have gone down if you had lost. Guess what? DP are meaningless. 32 bytes of data on a server database. They won't buy you an all expense paid trip to the Carribean, nor a ticket to the international space station, nor even a loaf of bread at the store. They have no meaning. They are just another number. They aren't even used for anything in game. Getting worked up over a game is the biggest fault of them all. Roll with the punches, react to what gets thrown in your face, and try to overcome the obstacle. Don't go to a forum and shout how you felt your duel with "sir random player guy" didn't go as planned and then declare that there are rules to how all duels must be done and you are the duel king and thus your rules are absolute. (That was my impression you were giving off after I read your first post.)
This question has been asked before in this thread and numerous ones before it: Why is it that people must automatically cry DUEL! just becuase some random joe called them a name. "Sticks and stones make break my bones, but words may never hurt me" anyone?
Disclaimer: if it sounds like I'm trying to state my points of view as law, it is not meant that way. The above is simply my interpretations of what has been said and these words are simply my view point on the whole subject at hand. Nothing more.
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neko kyouran made a great point.
I am overworking this and he wasn't totally at fault. I should have stipulated no Magic.
I shouldn't have been in the duel in the first place, so what if he called me a coward and was rude.
It seems a grain of sand was made into an anthill.
What i do want to say in my defense is that i do not deserve the blame, the only thing i can be blamed for is not stipulating the rules at the beginning which is both our faults.
I'll make sure no more free for all's take place from now on.
This seems like a good way to end the thread and thanks to neko kyouran we seemed to get everything into perspective.
~~Datruth
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not my standards...
i don't want to read through three pages... but if someone asks me to i'll gladly do it in hope of something interesting can come up and bulge my point of view a bit.
Magic is NOT cheap and is NOT cheating, it's finally back into duels.
What i think though is that potions (five in a second) which will heal you instantly while saying you are using potions as a warrior... it will be a bit unincharacter like, as no one (nongodmodders) are able to drink 5 potions in a second
also datruth... this is an unnescesary rant in the topicstart... sorry but that's what i think...
if you want to talk about this, come onto msn really late :)... i'll gladly do it
oh and @drahlian:, takes less than 6 seconds to cast energy arrow ;), the "loader" or what you can call it, the glowing circle which comes up when you start the spell has just disappeared when the arrow is cast.
edit: my bad... should'ave looked at datruth's last post >.< *hits self*
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Well i think you had more than enough right to use potions and bah to you for finally killing me last night apart from the three times you were struck down afterward ;D
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Well i think you had more than enough right to use potions and bah to you for finally killing me last night apart from the three times you were struck down afterward ;D
come smite me :F GRAAAAAAAA
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come smite me :F GRAAAAAAAA
what?
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Hello all,
I am Roahn, the guy who Datruth has been whining about. I am new, as I started playing on Saturday, the day before I met Restound. He challenged me, and I accepted, though his description said he was "significantly more powerful" than me. My dagger skill is 5, and I've barely trained my armor, so I knew I stood no chance against this guy except with magic. I did try to hit him with my daggers the moment it started, but they didn't touch him. I ran back a short distance and fired a missile. He just stood there, so I did it again. And again. Then he chased me a bit, I went around a corner, and fired again. Ran, fired, ran, fired. Now Restound, let me assure you, you cannot RUN while casting, not even one step, you can only walk. Anyway, the battle took quite a while, and it took a lot of work to hit him enough to get him down to around 10% health. I was feeling pretty good... until I watched him instantly undo all the work I'd done, as his health popped back to 100%. It was at this point that I realized it was futile to fight him. I mean, I had to hit him around 10 times with my magic, which took a lot of work. The realization that he could undo 2 minutes of hard work slowly knicking him with missiles with a simple keypress was very disappointing, and something I NEVER would have expected from someone honorable. I admit it was my fault for assuming Restound would be honorable, a mistake I will never make again. At this point, I ran and ran, never trying to shoot another missile, as it was obvious it was futile. I tried to get far enough away to type "/yield" but eventually he got to me and killed me, in a single blow.
To me, Restound won the duel, and his half a duel point. Congratulations, Restound. To me, I consider it a victory over a far stronger foe. Though I lost my life in that battle, I retained my honor. Now, let's clear up some of Datruth's incorrect assumptions:
He clearly used energy arrow, and his Crystal way was max. He is what i consider a pure mage, Doens't train Weapons much but has trained his magic to the full. That means CHA, INT, Crystal way, and probably END was full.
He used only 5 arrows, at most, drahilian.
You are quite wrong, "Datruth," as that stats you guess I have are all between 45 and 65. Isn't max around 150? You think my crystal is max?! Haha! Maybe in a few months. You know how expensive it is to train crystal?! It took me all Saturday just to be able to train it once.
Magic has an inherent advantage over Melee, in all cases. Imagine a fully trained Mage, starting the duel and running away from their opponoent, they are now far away from you, you turn around and you get hit with 2 arrows, you run at them and you get hit with 2 more. You are now at 20%.
PLUS, You can cast a spell, MOVE, and then when it's about to go off stand still. So NO mages don't have to stand still the whole time. I saw him do it and i myself have done that in the past to get away from NPCs.
You imagine a "fully trained" mage. As I mentioned, I'm NEW. I worked hard to get a couple points in Crystal Way, and you consider me "fully trained?" You assume many things, Datruth, but those assumptions are not "da truth." If you'd ever used magic in PS, you would know that you cannot run while casting any spell. You must stand still, or walk slowly.
You don't know what you're talking about, you weren't there, and this was no victory by him.
He choose to get rid of all rules by using magic, without stipulating it at the beginning. Therefore i used 3 potions at the beginning to even the odds.
I consider it a victory, and will always consider it a victory. I kicked your arse, Restound. I, a "noobie" as you called me in a /tell before I put you on my Ignore list, knocked you to 10% health, until you panicked and healed back to 100%. I have no doubt you only used 3 potions. I mean, why use another, when you're already at 100%?
I can't believe you came here and posted in this forum, complaining about me using magic against you. /me shakes his head in disbelief. I am only hoping that I will find some in PS that DO have some honor.
Farewell,
~~~ Roahn the Noobie ~~~
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Your not new i knew who you were straight away ;D
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I really fail to see why all the people in here argue so hard about these things. You are forgetting a couple of details...
Yes, the game is unbalanced, you are very much correct. It will be balanced some day, somehow, but we have to remember that this game is still in its pre-alpha stages.
And you know what? I've been beaten through magic as well. And I didn't like it. Because at the time, I didn't know that it was usable in duels again, but I got over it. I came back fought again and lost. What can I say? I'm not a very good dueller, but this time, I knew his tactics and agreed to it so he won fair and square.
About that use of potions thing, I really don't feel that you are right (that vast majority who called it cheating). Is it withing the game mechanics? Yes. Do you have a max amount of potions you can hold? Yes! Is it a free for all type of duel? Then why whine? Before you ask, no, I don't use potions in duels either, because I like the fair duel way, but I don't feel that the use of potions in a free for all duel or in a duel in which it's been agreed upon beforehand is such a big deal. Also, it doesn't mean that everything is fair and right in this world, or in any other.
Still in rant mode, I would say that in terms of game mechanics there is one thing that I truly dislike. It does concern the so heated missile or energy arrow, which can be fired at ANY range, with 100% accuracy and even through walls. Now if we are to whine, then let's talk about that. It's there that I'd love to see some balancing, since /target Ralleyon and /cast energy arrow can be done from anywhere even if I am in the other side of the plaza from my opponent. Now that's what truly needs balancing.
And another matter that deserves attention is the actual topic of this thread. What Datruth is saying about a Duel Etiquette is not a bad idea at all, but one needs to RP this before hand. Provided that this happens and that there are some common duel types, yes it would be very nice to duel honourably and choose weapons, fighting style and so on. I suggest we end this petty fight, think about some Duel Etiquette and move the discussion more in that direction, I am really curious what people think about on this matter.
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I feel the approach to potions and damage to hit points may be not very good, but i know now it is in very early stage too. What it basically lacks is gradual decrease or increase. Potions aren't to heal you while battle, but rather while you have a bit more time, but it should never work instantly. A good idea, as it is good step away from the so called MMORPGS model. There are more ideas to implement about potions, to make them reasonable.
Duels. You see, you will never convince all the people to treat the duels like a real duels. Simply because you are wrong if you think PS mehanics definition of duel word is same as the duel word you know. I already told games only imitate this what you got used to in real world. And so you have an example there.
PS duels are a way to make occasions to actual PCvsPC fight with use of skills/stats - the random factor. These fights may be actual duels if both oponents are knights, or someone with some code, but you can't except it from everyone^^.
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I'd only wish i would have recorded the duel so there would have been no debate whatsoever.
Roahn is obviously lying, he says he's a noob just because his melee skills arn't that great. Why not take a genuine screenshot of your skills and reveal to us exactly how much CHA, INT, and crystal way you have.
And explain to me why someone would stand still for 6 *10, 6 seconds per arrow, 10 Arrows, as you claim, = 1 minute.
That's total BullS**T.
You hit me with a MAX of 5 arrows, 3 or 4 to be exact. That makes alot more sense and it establishes my claim that i did run after but you were too far to get too.
I used 3 regular Healing potions, and i was at 20% life actually, you try that on a person who has FULL end and Full STR and AGI.
It will not completely heal them, go ahead and try it.
"I kicked your arse, Restound. I, a "noobie" as you called me in a /tell before I put you on my Ignore list"
You didn't kick my arse, all you did was surprise me, run away and send 3 or 4 arrows at me, to get over the surprise i used 3 regular potions of healing.
Then i chased you down, you ran like a coward for 3 minutes strait.
He also provoked the duel in the first place, I was talking to a new member of my guild. She happened to be a fenki.
He initiated a free for all and that's what he got.
And don't buy his crying of, "bad wolf".
Let's check his stats and see how much of noob he is and let's see when his character was made as well as if he has any other characters.
A 2 day old character, like he claimed, would not have been able to get an energy glyph, train crystal way to 8, and train CHA to 110.
I currently have 8 crystal way and 110 CHA, he is significantly better than me when it comes to magic, He could not have gotten that high in 2 days, as he claimed.
Or even a week. It takes time to just get the information, make enough money, and learn all this stuff.
He is only a noob in 2 places,
1) That he doesn't understand dueling Ettiquette and falsely labels people cheaters.
2) He surprises people with magic and kills them without any actual skill.
Again, i have FULL HEALTH (fully trained it all), any average character would have been dead, even a few above average ones.
Also roahn I don't appreciate people coming on the boards and lying about an incident and on top of that labeling me a cheat.
You lost because you used magic, had you fought me sword to sword I wouldn't have used a potion.
If you want to use magic, specify it, don't prounce it on players and kill them, that requires no skill at all.
And if you don't specify it, you have a Free for all, and you have no right to complain about potions.
~~Datruth
Posting chat logs is not allowed here unless all parties agree to it. -Karyuu
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I tried to be nice.
This argument is just that. An argument. Its all he say, she say. No definative proof one way or the other. We can go back and forth and back and forth all we want. You say what happens, he says what happens. You post chat logs, he post chat logs. Chat logs can be manipulated. They mean nothing. No one will win this argument. I have a picture for just this type of situation. It has a bad word in it so I always refrain from posting it. If anyone wants to see it though, PM and I'll send you a link to it.
Again, I say. Why get so worked up over something that means absolutey nill? It's already been established that both parties are at fault. Why must this continue?
If you two want to continue your debate on who is right and who is wrong, please take it to PMs.
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I tried to be nice.
This argument is just that. An argument. Its all he say, she say. No definative proof one way or the other. We can go back and forth and back and forth all we want. You say what happens, he says what happens. You post chat logs, he post chat logs. Chat logs can be manipulated. They mean nothing. No one will win this argument. I have a picture for just this type of situation. It has a bad word in it so I always refrain from posting it. If anyone wants to see it though, PM and I'll send you a link to it.
Again, I say. Why get so worked up over something that means absolutey nill? It's already been established that both parties are at fault. Why must this continue?
If you two want to continue your debate on who is right and who is wrong, please take it to PMs.
Are you calling me a liar neko?
Those chat logs were accurate and all statements he made were proven false.
Although we might not have tangible proof we have something called logic, just look at his post, it's all B.S.
And no, i'm not equally at fault. He takes the majority of the blame, that's a fact. I'm pretty sure if you start a confrontation, lie about a confrontation, and call your opponent a cheater, and then you're proven wrong, you are at fault.
Stop trying to switch the blame, the majority of it does belong in one persons corner and that's his, end of discussion, no need to be politically correct.
~~Datruth
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Why are you being so aggressive? His only problem with you was you using potions, a concern which seems to be shared by the majority here. He hasn't done anything wrong. Weren't you the one who initiated the duel anyway?
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come smite me :F GRAAAAAAAA
what?
((come fight me))
anyway
@datruth: Please don't go on with this, it really has no point, it's good if you stay on topic with what you think is right and wrong but don't go ranting about that duel, you killed him and he thinks he kicked your arse, end of story, no more to it. Please?
As neko said this argument is going nowhere, just say "I'm sorry i used potions" and be a nice guy, you will get an apoligy back.
@Ralleyon: still if you can, potions will still outdue it, it really takes nothing to mine for half an hour and fill up your inventory with greater healing potions and make a macro to fully heal yourself, and since we can't duel in the plaza walls get really hard to find :), besides before you're down to 0 you can follow where the arrows are comming from sneak up on him and ninjae him :P.
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Why are you being so aggressive? His only problem with you was you using potions, a concern which seems to be shared by the majority here. He hasn't done anything wrong. Weren't you the one who initiated the duel anyway?
What did he do wrong, k let's go over it:
1) He was openly rude while i was talking to a guild member.
2) I ignored it and started walking away, then he calls me a coward.
3) I expect an average duel and what does he do, he runs and starts hitting me with arrows, hits me with about 3 or 4 and i'm down to 20% life. While this isn't fully wrong, it is a shady tactic used by people who don't want to fight fair.
4) He initiated a free for all, so i used 3 regular potions of healing and chased after him. AFter 3 continues minutes of running i Kill him. After this he calls me a cheat, Why? Because I canceled the damage he did and the surprise he had planned.
Basically, i ruined his strategy. Was i going to use more potions, no, my intent was to get over the surprise and fight, and i did.
5) He whines to everyone and their mother that i'm a cheater trying to taint his reputation.
6) He openly lies on the forums about the facts, twisting them as well. First he says that he used 10 Arrows and i mathematically showed that was total BullS**T.
Then he points out he's a noob, when clearly he couldn't be with the amount of damage those arrows did.
7) He lies in his statement that he is a 2 day old player and i show you conclusive evidence why he can't be.
8 ) He tries to back up his story that he is a new player by referencing to the fact that i called him a Noob but when i show the chat log it shows WITHOUT A DOUBT that I said he was a Noob because he didn't know dueling etquette and that he wasn't a noob because of power, which is obviously something he has when it comes to magic.
The LIST goes on and on.
And You karyuu, of alll people, say he hasn't done anything wrong?
YOU yourself, Ms. Karyuu said it's o.k to use potions if no rules are set and if a FREE for ALL duel is made.
So did Suno. So did alot of people here.
And the finger is still pointed at me? :thumbdown:
Not only that but you deleted the chat logs which showed a MYRIAD of proof of his lies, deceptions, and whining.
I'm outraged and i have a right to be. My integrity is at stake and I have showed conclusively that I am at very little fault here.
Please feel free to disagree with me and show me i'm wrong, i challenge you to.
~~Datruth
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~~Datruth
If you're seeing this could you log on msn please
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Datruth, you are being a child. You are uptight and bellicose over an insignificant event, and even after everyone in this thread has offered you a different perspective, you insist on your nonsensical combative stance. Cut it out, seriously. You are not winning any points here, nor any arguments. This rant has gone on way past its expiration date and is now testing my patience.
1) He was openly rude while i was talking to a guild member.
2) I ignored it and started walking away, then he calls me a coward.
So you challenge him with the intention of ending his life? Had I seen that in real life, I would've thought "Is that guy completely out of his mind?" Either your character is a big bully, or totally insecure. Either way you're immediately at fault for being so rash.
3) I expect an average duel and what does he do, he runs and starts hitting me with arrows, hits me with about 3 or 4 and i'm down to 20% life. While this isn't fully wrong, it is a shady tactic used by people who don't want to fight fair.
Using magic isn't a shady tactic - the next time you start saying this, I'm going to take a mallet and beat it into your head :] What is a fair fight, not using the talents you have and instead throwing daggers at your opponent, which you have never learned to handle? Where do you get this ludicrous idea that somehow your expectation of a duel is the way all duels should be, and everyone should state what they are going to use before using it? This is preposterous.
4) He initiated a free for all, so i used 3 regular potions of healing and chased after him. AFter 3 continues minutes of running i Kill him. After this he calls me a cheat, Why? Because I canceled the damage he did and the surprise he had planned.
You seem to be ignoring what everyone else here is saying about potions. I didn't understand it in the beginning, but I realize now how unfair potion use in a duel is. There's your lack of honor, not his.
5) He whines to everyone and their mother that i'm a cheater trying to taint his reputation.
And what exactly were you trying to do in this thread? Your made up "dueling etiquette" is using him as an example of some bizarre "inappropriate behavior."
YOU yourself, Ms. Karyuu said it's o.k to use potions if no rules are set and if a FREE for ALL duel is made.
So did Suno. So did alot of people here.
Show me quotes of those "a lot of people here."
Not only that but you deleted the chat logs which showed a MYRIAD of proof of his lies, deceptions, and whining.
And you broke the forum rules. You are ignoring several replies in this thread that either prove your wrong about a certain point or make corrections about some of your statements. I don't really like that.
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Roahn is obviously lying, he says he's a noob just because his melee skills arn't that great. Why not take a genuine screenshot of your skills and reveal to us exactly how much CHA, INT, and crystal way you have.
I created my character on Saturday Oct. 7. My stats are as I told you. Melee 0, dagger 5, LA 5 (on the day of our battle), and I've only trained Crystal a small amount. I don't expect you to believe me, since you are convinced that your blind assumptions are facts.
And explain to me why someone would stand still for 6 *10, 6 seconds per arrow, 10 Arrows, as you claim, = 1 minute.
Good question, Datruth. Why *did* you stand still and let me shoot you so many times? Lack of experience dueling maybe?
You didn't kick my arse, all you did was surprise me, run away and send 3 or 4 arrows at me, to get over the surprise i used 3 regular potions of healing.
Then i chased you down, you ran like a coward for 3 minutes strait.
So you are saying that using potions to save youself from losing to a weaker character is NOT cowardly, but running from someone far stronger who will use potions to win a duel IS cowardly? Your perception of cowardice is a bit skewed.
Let's check his stats and see how much of noob he is and let's see when his character was made as well as if he has any other characters.
A 2 day old character, like he claimed, would not have been able to get an energy glyph, train crystal way to 8, and train CHA to 110.
I currently have 8 crystal way and 110 CHA, he is significantly better than me when it comes to magic, He could not have gotten that high in 2 days, as he claimed.
Or even a week. It takes time to just get the information, make enough money, and learn all this stuff.
Datruth, your myriad of assumptions only make you look foolish. I never said I had 8 in crystal way. I never said I had an Energy glyph. All my stats are low, as I told you before. I agree with your statement of "he is significantly better than me when it comes to magic," but not because of stats or training, but simply because I know how to use it. You even think you can run while casting, which you've mentioned several times. I learned that in the first 5 minutes of using magic. I'm not bragging... I suck at dueling... you just suck more than I do. Stop making assumptions when you have no clue what you are talking about.
Also roahn I don't appreciate people coming on the boards and lying about an incident and on top of that labeling me a cheat.
I did NOT call you a cheat. Read my message again if you don't believe me. What I said was that you lack honor. Your continued ranting has only strengthened this opinion.
~~~ Roahn ~~~
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Let's check his stats and see how much of noob he is and let's see when his character was made as well as if he has any other characters.
A 2 day old character, like he claimed, would not have been able to get an energy glyph, train crystal way to 8, and train CHA to 110.
I currently have 8 crystal way and 110 CHA, he is significantly better than me when it comes to magic, He could not have gotten that high in 2 days, as he claimed.
Or even a week. It takes time to just get the information, make enough money, and learn all this stuff.
Datruth, your myriad of assumptions only make you look foolish. I never said I had 8 in crystal way. I never said I had an Energy glyph. All my stats are low, as I told you before. I agree with your statement of "he is significantly better than me when it comes to magic," but not because of stats or training, but simply because I know how to use it. You even think you can run while casting, which you've mentioned several times. I learned that in the first 5 minutes of using magic. I'm not bragging... I suck at dueling... you just suck more than I do. Stop making assumptions when you have no clue what you are talking about.
that evaluation in the bottm doesn't count on skills, only on stats (str, agi, end, cha, int and will)
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Roahn was and is the cause of all this.
I shouldn't have let his whining get the better of me. He wanted to go around Yliakum saying i was dishonorable, should have been fine by me.
But it wasn't, I had to go on the forums and i had to set the record strait.
I listed the facts and i thought i was done.
I didn't want his thread to turn into a rant and a flame thread but it's shifted that way. Fingers were pointed away from me then back again , on and on.
The constant lieing by the other party didn't help either. Even after having shown proof, no one saw it in my favor.
I think there maybe a bias agianst me but that's still a theory and i have no proof to go off of.
I know the potion thing can be debated forever, i agree unlimited potions are wrong, but again i only used 3 and only at the beginning. I'm sorry if you felt it's wrong and i know better not to even use 3 anymore. I should just get rid of them all right now to save me the trouble.
If you read the last part of my thread it outlines a good Duel etiquette, I think that should be what we should talk about.
I don't want to waste another 3 pages screaming at Roahn about his lies or at Karyuu about her bias.
You can continue talking about the real question at hand, dueling ettiquette. I will have no more part in all this screaming, someone needs to step up and say enough is enough.
We arn't learning anything anymore, just screaming at each other. The more screaming i do, the more it seems no one listens. It isn't helping anything.
So Roahn, go ahead and try and ruin my reputation in game, i tried to conteract that by making this thread.
I've been told by a trusted friend that, it would have been better to let you go around calling me dishonorable or a cheat, than me making this thread.
I disagree but i trust my friends advice. He saw all the anger this thread stirred up and he wants it to end, i agree with him.
The facts have all been laid out and you can judge for yourself who is right, just read them from page one onwards.
But now get to the pressing issue, look at my first post and see how i seperated the duels, discuss that and work for a solution to this potions problem.
No infinite potions isn't right, but what about 3 to take off the initial surprise of the magic?
I'm sorry this thread turned into a flame war and i'm sorry i didn't stipulate the terms of the duel. It became a free for all that lead to chaos.
But for everything else i leave to you to judge.
~~Datruth
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my definition of a normal duel would be, both magic and weapons. no potions.
my free for all is what i would never duel, with potions
which then adds what datruth thinks is a normal duel, which i call a warriors duel, weapons only
and the wizards duel, magic only still no potions
that's about it which i think is quite fair.
@datruth: :)
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I agree completely with Peacer in his description of duels. Normal duels should be weapons and magic, but no potions. Warrior duels would be weapons only, and no potions. Magic duels would be magic only, but no healing potions.
Datruth's suggestion of "Just using 3 healing potions to compensate for the surprise of magic" is rediculous. The mage would have to hit him 7 times, then the non-magical person would heal back to 100%, and the mage would have to hit another 9 times to finish them off. Let's see... the mage has to hit 16 times then to kill the warrior, while the warrior has to hit... let's see... ONCE, to kill the mage. That would make it pretty close to impossible for a mage to beat a warrior with even the slightest skill. And if the warrior feel the need to use 3 potions, what's to stop him from using 6, or 9, or 30, until he finally connects with his blades?
Honestly I wish the devs would remove the ability to use healing potions when you're in a duel. It would remove the ability to fight dishonorably.
~~~ Roahn ~~~
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I think this has gone a bit far over one duel. :-X
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Datruth's suggestion of "Just using 3 healing potions to compensate for the surprise of magic" is rediculous.
Agreed. If you're going to lose a duel, then lose it. If the other person uses magic, then that's just how things go. If you don't want to face magic in combat, then don't duel. Only use potions if you're going to yield.
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I don't see a reason, to set any community made rules about potions. You won't convince all he people to your rights anyway. I proposed a way out already, but we have to wait for i to be implemented. Just like with everything else.
It is easy to make cmmunity rules, it is harder to enforce them and you will never know if they really fit into the setting in real 100%.
I'd say somethink about Datruth, but it has been said already.
What i don't like in general is how people come to complain about their own mistakes.
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Duels are duels. You cannot ignore game mechanics unless everyone chooses to do so. I knew right after the update that magic had activated in duels again. No suprise here...
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I don't see a reason, to set any community made rules about potions. You won't convince all he people to your rights anyway. I proposed a way out already, but we have to wait for i to be implemented. Just like with everything else.
It is easy to make cmmunity rules, it is harder to enforce them and you will never know if they really fit into the setting in real 100%.
call them unofficial?
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Peacer, its completly fine.
But no matter what title you will give to this, there is really nothing, what will make the rules working right, because in order to do so, we need everybody to act along these rules.
We were always free to do what we want in this area. I should really become more constructive and optimistic... Maybe i can't see only positive infulence from these ideas, but they may be of great help for some groups of people.
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Peacer, its completly fine.
But no matter what title you will give to this, there is really nothing, what will make the rules working right, because in order to do so, we need everybody to act along these rules.
We were always free to do what we want in this area. I should really become more constructive and optimistic... Maybe i can't see only positive infulence from these ideas, but they may be of great help for some groups of people.
well i think that these unoffocial standards will help things like this happening, with rantings about how who was wrong and who was right in a duel would be cut down pretty much, you go into a warriors duel, fine... then that's it... should be agreed upon ooc'ly too as no living creature (except gods) could pour down 5 potions in one second, which they would claim to rp.
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Just simply state your rules before dueling i always do and then if they break them rules i wouldnt duel them again.
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Here are the different types of Duels and how they are carried about:
Normal Duel
1) One person challenges another, no magic or potions.
2) You duel and don't run, average time of duel about 30 seconds, can go up to a minute though..
3) Someone dies and you are done. The best man has won.
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Free for all
1) You don't warn your opponent and you use either Potions or Magic.
2) That is a signal for your opponent to use whatever he chooses.
3) Someone dies, not necessarily because of their dueling skill. Average time of duel, varies.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Magic duel
1) You stipulate magic will be allowed in this duel and you may even specify which types of magic.
2) You do not allow Potions, this is stipulated before the duel as well.
3) You fight and the Best man wins. Average time about 10 seconds.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~Datruth
my definition of a normal duel would be, both magic and weapons. no potions.
my free for all is what i would never duel, with potions
which then adds what datruth thinks is a normal duel, which i call a warriors duel, weapons only
and the wizards duel, magic only still no potions
that's about it which i think is quite fair.
@datruth: :)
Yea, i also wanted to add one more:
Mage Warrior Duel
1) You allow both magic and weapons and discuss this before hand.
2) No potions is stipulated
3) Skill isn't usually the winner, it's whichever game mechanic works best.
~~Datruth
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amazingly enough, i read this entire post.
one comment.
Datruth, you say that you used the 3 potions to counteract the "surprise" magic attack.
isn't surprise a battle strategy?
it appears you were taken by surprise honorably and decided to cheat to deal with that strategy.
all of your arguements from that point fall apart.
you were being bested in a duel and that's that.
deal with it.
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This really needs to be entered into the wishlist. For different types of duels with different balances. Right now there is only one type of duel: Free-for-all. That is every duel you enter into. It is the uncertainty of it that makes it fun, anyway.
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No, magic doesn't always beat weapons. Once we're able to have bows, it'll go both way. And even with melee weapons against magic, melee can still win.
You just made an assumption, you said ONCE we are able to have bows, it'll go both ways. That's not a fact, you haven't seen the bow system, and you have nothing to support your statement, it is baseless.
You admit in that same sentance than, that right now magic has a HUGE advantage over Melee, you say ONCE we have bows, THEN it'll go both ways, meaning now it doesn't and if you play the game often you'll know that this is a fact.
A MAJORITY OF THE TIME, 99%, Magic will always beat weapons, why?
1) Magic players will only use magic if it's trained very high, so it's very effective, 5 or less arrows is a kill.
2) The meelee player will not be ready for the magic and if he does not have MAX health like me, he will die alot quicker.
3) MAGIC is a ranged skill, arrows can be very effective, and you can be either close or far to win, where MElee you MUST be close enough to slash, and then again your slash could miss.
I can't believe you would argue that Magic v.s Melee, melee wins a good percentage of the time.
That just isn't true, Magic versus Melee, Magic wins a VASt majority of the time.
All you need to do is corner the magic-using guy. There's no such thing as a magic vs. weapon, magic vs. magic, or weapon vs. weapon.
How do you corner the guy? Are you aware, that people can run through other people in this game... i would think you would know that by now.
That idea is just silly, i doubt you actually re read your own post and thought about that.
And yes, Those were definitions i used and defined in my first post, they do exist, whether you choose to use those definitions or not.
You can use whatever you want whenever you want, so stop complaining and go learn magic or something.
I agree in a sense, If you choose to be like that, if you choose to use whatever you want, then that means your opponent may do the same.
Thus You and your opponent can now use potions.
You can see, this doesn't show skill and you're just wasting your time.
If you want to have a meaningfull fight, Stick to Melee v.s Melee, or Magic v.s Magic.
Don't trick your opponent and make it a free for all.
And Suno, I shoulnd't have to be forced to train anything, if i don't wanna learn magic to the max, i do not have to. To suggest such a thing shows your demanding state of mind, and i question whether you are looking at this rationally.
~~Datruth
I really hate when people pick out every single sentence in a post and go on and on with some meaningless crap. Look, if you don't want to learn magic, then just live with the fact you get beat by it. But you being beat by it means you need to try and plan out your strategy more. Bows would just make it easier on you and you can shoot them from a distance, but if you actually figured out how they were moving and got in front of them while they were turning around, going this way, then that way, whatever, you could run through and get a hit in. Keep doing that and they're dead. But if they were able to stand in one place and shoot you, then that means you completely lost them and are now ranting about magic beating weapons, when you could have easily found and attacked them.
As far as I know, you have to stand still to cast a spell. While they're standing still, why aren't you attacking? (I don't know if that was changed or not, they could have made it so you can skip along shooting magic arrows at everything).
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I don't get the whole normal duel, wizards duel, weapon duel, whatever duel etc.
It's just a duel. You both accept the challenge, and use every low blow possible to kill eachother. Now, don't be a sore loser. Magic is there to be used. Potions are there, yes you guessed it, to be used. Ranting about not having concrete types of duels that just take what little fun there is out of it, not good.
EDIT: Grammarrrr
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This really needs to be entered into the wishlist. For different types of duels with different balances. Right now there is only one type of duel: Free-for-all. That is every duel you enter into. It is the uncertainty of it that makes it fun, anyway.
I disagree. There are two types of duel: Game mechanic duels where the challenge is made and accepted with barely a word and Role Play duels where there is a bunch of talk leading up to the challenge/acceptance. Gmech. duels are by far the most common.
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I disagree. There are two types of duel: Game mechanic duels where the challenge is made and accepted with barely a word and Role Play duels where there is a bunch of talk leading up to the challenge/acceptance. Gmech. duels are by far the most common.
Duels can be in character without being surrounded by massive amounts of dialogue. All duels rely on the game mechanics to work, even if you're using the /roll command.
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True enough but the RP ones tend to or ought to have more dialogue.
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True enough but the RP ones tend to or ought to have more dialogue.
Since the ones that aren't for RP purposes tend to have no dialogue at all, you're right.:)
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This whole thread was started do to what amounted to a Gmech duel. Datruth was called a coward and the fight was on. There was very little RP involved.
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This whole thread was started do to what amounted to a Gmech duel. Datruth was called a coward and the fight was on. There was very little RP involved.
Maybe, but please don't get all this started again <.<
@datruth: your mage warrior duel is the same as the normal duel i proposed ;)
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My only point I tried to make by saying that there was one type of duel. Is that there is one type of duel. The type of duel that the game allows for. That is now a duel where whatever your character can do, they will do. There is no allowance in game mechanics for any other kind of duel. Therefore: There is only one type of duel. If you enter into a duel, be prepared to accept what happens. And I think that if people would like other kinds of duels that this needs to be requested from the developers. Roleplay leading up to a duel is fine, getting the players to agree on a certain type of duel is fine, but the moment you click the Accept button all bets are off. The game does not limit a magic duel to magic or a weapons duel to weapons.
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The game does not limit a magic duel to magic or a weapons duel to weapons.
And it should stay that way. Currently not much can be done about duel mechanics to make it more real, and that't good. It means more realism and thus more RP possibilities involved.
Of course i'm saying this while any other pvp system won't work now, when there is no environment for it.
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The game does not limit a magic duel to magic or a weapons duel to weapons.
And it should stay that way. Currently not much can be done about duel mechanics to make it more real, and that't good. It means more realism and thus more RP possibilities involved.
Exactly, Nikodemus. Exactly.
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Ok, reading all that hurt my eyes... and makes me feel bad about the times i get intense & may seem childish too....
my thoughts on stuff in this thread:
ummm i consider all duel free for all unless specified [in ooc].. otherwise it is by your character's honor system...
potions: well unless you recently looted some let's face it; potions are there to be used. Just like magic. Anyone can carry potions, but not unlimited as they carry a certain weight.. but you can each be using potions as part of your own strategy, to a limited extent & for cost each use..
"But they equip too fast": an in game hour is what? 10? 20 minutes? time is relevant.
Healing Potions should be disallowed in duels: how about pie? meat? fish? bread? apples? mushrooms?....
RE what wasn't in here that i was hoping for:
GM stance on weakness.
Recently a "Friend of mine" (pronounced "alt") was seemingly randomly challenged to a duel, accepted, fought, and won, but had been blighted by weakness... This led to some item loss that another character came by & snatched... I was wondering what policy [if there is any] was on that... Personally, even tho it was my "friend" who suffered the loss, i think it seems quite appropriate, as losing strength WOULD make a person unable to carry stuff, etc...and it sort of goes hand in hand with the healing potion arguments: person using healing potions is hit with weakness>>keeps replentishing hp but loses strength & drops items>>>possibly drops healing potions... Sucky, but i gotta say its valid... Unless gms say it isn't.... ???
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I don't see a reason why doing different stuff, like drinking potions should be disallowed by game mechanics while dueling. If you tell somethink like that, provide valid reason, coz if you don't it is just not worth at all. Telling such theories, you can foul people who would normally think otherwise, and then we have loads of people with idiotic ideas. It really hurt me.
As for sudden strenght drop.... Why the hell do we drop things, if we all of sudden have more than we can weight? People, (I suppose it is more directed to devs) To drop somethink, first you need to have it in your hand. You won't drop 20 potions somewhre in your backpack, or mounted to a belt. So, first what you would drop, would be the weapons. But think, would you really drop your weapons and walk away? Hell no.
Better would be system message "you can't move because you cant wear that much" And now you have to think what you don't need
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/me hops in this thread
tadaaaaaaaa!
Ok, I do not intend to brag, but i know a thing or two about the so called duelling etiquettes since I hosted a couple of tournaments and have done quite a few duels. Duels are fun, and are meant to increase the amount of RP possabillities and increase the fun for some in PS. There's two ways you can go about when it comes to duelling.
You go challenge at random.
Most of the time, these people loose a lot and come complaining afterwards you didn't tell them you got sword level 80, a load of potions and stat enhancing weapons combined with a brand new silverweave short sword. Well people, you were wrong. It is concidered not so nice, but is far from illegal. In fact, YAY for the one that used all that stuff, he clearly is the better fighter showing his knwledge of warfare by using stronger material and taking as much as he/she can out of what the game has to offer. Clearly, he/she read Sun-tzu or Musashi.
You think before you act
Thinking before you act, yes... I know it's tough, but I assure you it's do-able. It's soemthing I had to learn, and for some weird reason, it took a MMORPG to teach me how. Someone challenges you to a duel, You decline. You send him a tell saying you would like to duel him as well, but set some rules at first. Then you and him/her start setting up a set of rules for that specific Duel. Some rules, that might be nice in order to throw an exciting, fun increasing duel might be: No potions, one shield, one normal weapon, and a certain area in which you shall both stay, as soon as this area is left, the duel is won by the other. Ofcourse, this relies on honesty and trust, but will work out most of the time. Most likely, these people will do well in a tournament.
Hoping to have given some useful information... bibble.
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agreed with prog's first part there,
but mainly this whole thing means nothing unless rules are stamped out before the battle... In a real fight with no chivalry, you will use any trick to survive (so long as it isn't out right cheating ;P)
But really, unless rules are stamped out oocly or icly before a duel, who can say anything about dueling Etiquette...
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It's a virtual world, PS. If no rules are set, the will to survive sets in. If you want to role-play your character without the will to survive, often mistaken as chivalry, be my guest. And please, don't be offended, almost everyone happely commits suicide to get to hydlaa from Oja. or the other way around.
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Hopefuly for that last part prog, it wont be around.... I can't wait until the devs make DR more of a journy then a short trip. ;)
It'll make Death more realistic, which might make people more cautious about how much chivalry they show.... wink wink, nudge nudge...
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I can't wait until the devs make DR more of a journy then a short trip. ;)
Put a lot of agressive mobs down there, make it a labyrinth, make dynamic traps and so on... triggering gates to lock up and release an ulber or something, depending on how strong you are could be cool
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If the DR were difficult, it might scare off a lot of new players who don't know how to play. Noobies tend to end up in the DR right away.
~~~ Roahn ~~~
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yeah, but thats also why they can ask for assistance... DR is too easy to escape from as is, its just a single path... with a few branch offs... for most of us its a walk in the park, and it needs to be harder other wise death is meaningless...
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But, alot of noobies get stuck in the DR alot already. Making it harder to escape from, will just ruin it for them to be honest. They will probably just leave. I mean, I knew someone who was stuck in this DR for 2 DAYS!
Anyway, The Death realm is ok, apart from the black doors that go nowhere. They should be developed into something. \\o//
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/me reminds people that the topic is about dueling, not the DR, and if they would like to discuss the DR and it's "easyness" to get out, there a few threads already made on that topic. Give em a read?