PlaneShift
Gameplay => Guilds Forum => Topic started by: lordraleigh on November 19, 2006, 10:58:49 pm
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Moderators: After some constructive criticisms I ask you to get this topic trashed away. And my post on the Guilds List as well. Also I'm afraid it may open space for useless discussions about IC/OOC secrecy and even flame wars.
Sorry for the inconvenience...
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Interesting structure but... What do you do?
PS: The Empire dosen't have a rank by that name. :)
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If it is so secret shouldn't you just recruit in game surreptitiously without public comment? Is it possible that this is just a ruse to cover for the recruitment of a completely different secret society, one in which only the top echelon really knows what is going on? Are there secrets within secretsand enigmas wrapped in riddles swabbed wit a coating of conundrum? Enquiring minds have no right to know!
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hahaha FreeMasons of the PS World, I love it :)
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If it is so secret shouldn't you just recruit in game surreptitiously without public comment? Is it possible that this is just a ruse to cover for the recruitment of a completely different secret society, one in which only the top echelon really knows what is going on? Are there secrets within secretsand enigmas wrapped in riddles swabbed wit a coating of conundrum? Enquiring minds have no right to know!
As a member of the Ministry of Doublespeak, I neither confirm nor deny your conspiracy theory.
[Now we will have conspiracy theorists in the PS community!]
Interesting structure but... What do you do?
"To work towards progress of Yliakum, so future generations may live in a better world" [You can make "conspiracy theories" out of game though, but if you make any new topic, don't forget to put that OOC disclaimer]
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I found the post to be to hard on my eyes to read. :) You would think the words being huge would help but actually each letter is like a huge light bulb in my face. Sorry, I would read it further if I could but at this moment I can't stand the layout of the post and now I have a headache trying to read past the disclaimer.
I will try to find out about it in game I suppose.
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*Matt, with a dazed little man on his shoulder.*
Meh, what was the purpose of posting if you can't tell us what you do? Why would we care you exist? Frankly, this sounds like boasting to me. Some newbie feels the need to lord it over everyone else by informing them that they've been left out of a so-called "secret society". If I started a secret society, I would keep it secret.
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I'm afraid I had to remove your post from the stickied Guild List - it consisted of nothing but "classified, classified, classified" and therefore is, unfortunately, not useful information for the community. The Guild List is there for players to have a quick look for a guild that may pique their interest, with information on how to contact guild leaders about joining. If you're posting with "We cannot reveal this," then just... don't post :}
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It would sound nice if any of Bilbous "conspiracies" were right. Probably they aren't. And that would mean you would have failed the first rule of "secrecy" just to feed an attention craving.
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Hmmm.
It atleast intrigues me.
You said it was an Organisation, am I to assume you will not be using the guild system then?
I don't exactly understand it, probably due to the overuse of -classified-.
You are relying heavily on everybody's Roleplay skill. Granted their characters may not know but, they will be more tempted to make them find out now.
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Your choice though.
Opinion: -classified-
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I found the post to be to hard on my eyes to read. :) You would think the words being huge would help but actually each letter is like a huge light bulb in my face. Sorry, I would read it further if I could but at this moment I can't stand the layout of the post and now I have a headache trying to read past the disclaimer.
I will try to find out about it in game I suppose.
Nope, the disclaimer says it wells: "No one beyond invited members knows about it in-character" and any respectable roleplayer will know about it"
*Matt, with a dazed little man on his shoulder.*
Meh, what was the purpose of posting if you can't tell us what you do? Why would we care you exist? Frankly, this sounds like boasting to me. Some newbie feels the need to lord it over everyone else by informing them that they've been left out of a so-called "secret society". If I started a secret society, I would keep it secret.
I see you know how real-life(OOC) secrets and roleplaying(IC) secrets are just the same thing.
And do you think the disclaimer is too simple for you that you simply avoided reading it?
[Ironies apart, one of the reasons this topic was made is to see how mature is the PS community.
The other is so players know that if they are good RPers their characters may be invited to either
join us or other secret organization]
I'm afraid I had to remove your post from the stickied Guild List...
Sorry, I just posted about it as incentive for serious roleplaying. Didn't know it was just for IC public guilds
You said it was an Organisation, am I to assume you will not be using the guild system then?...
You are relying heavily on everybody's Roleplay skill. Granted their characters may not know but, they will be more tempted to make them find out now...
Well, the Dark Empire is an organization but still uses the guild system for example.
About the "make them find", we have safety mechanisms. It is a way to increase our challenge and to see if we can stand the pressures as well[And to motivate players to RP seriously too. Anyway I don't think no one knew or suspected about top secret organizations in Yliakum before and this topic won't change it]
Tell me. Exactly who are you to decide who is, and who is not, a good roleplayer? Also, if you're secret IC, but good roleplayers might get invited, that seems wrong. It should be that even if I'm not a fantastic RPer, if my character is the type who would be valuable to an organisation such as this, then he would be invited. You're saying that if I am a good roleplayer(which is OOC), then my character(which is IC) might get invited...
[ I have no grudge against you, just like a bit of irony sometimes. Anyone can decide if one is or not a good RPer as long as one have some roleplaying experience, if your character are one, and needed, it will get invited]
It isn't just for IC Public guilds, it's for OOC public guilds...
[ I wouldn't like to risk that the more sensitive information about OLP "leaks" through a bad RPer. The knowledge of its existence won't disrupt it if the bad thing happens ]
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Tell me. Exactly who are you to decide who is, and who is not, a good roleplayer? Also, if you're secret IC, but good roleplayers might get invited, that seems wrong. It should be that even if I'm not a fantastic RPer, if my character is the type who would be valuable to an organisation such as this, then he would be invited. You're saying that if I am a good roleplayer(which is OOC), then my character(which is IC) might get invited...
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I'm afraid I had to remove your post from the stickied Guild List...
Sorry, I just posted about it as incentive for serious roleplaying. Didn't know it was just for IC public guilds
It isn't just for IC Public guilds, it's for OOC public guilds.
And posting a bunch of -classified- will not interest serious roleplaying.
In short, the post was useless.
And don't tango with Phinehas, he tends to win.
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I found the post to be to hard on my eyes to read. :) You would think the words being huge would help but actually each letter is like a huge light bulb in my face. Sorry, I would read it further if I could but at this moment I can't stand the layout of the post and now I have a headache trying to read past the disclaimer.
I will try to find out about it in game I suppose.
Nope, the disclaimer says it wells: "No one beyond invited members knows about it in-character" and any respectable roleplayer will know about it"
Hmmm, well seeing as I am not a "reaspectable role-player" or "Invited member" guess I won't be finding out. ::)
Anyway Phinehas has a point. How can you judge if a person is a good role-player vs bad roleplayer? Do you have expereince with this sort of thing? Enough to feel confident in making those decisions? Not only that but he is right to say it isn't fair that you over look a character just because they don't role-play to your standards but their character is fit for the job. That isn't seperating IC and OOC and makes me wonder about your role-play skills and what you see as a good enough role-player to join your "secret club".
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I found the post to be to hard on my eyes to read. :) You would think the words being huge would help but actually each letter is like a huge light bulb in my face. Sorry, I would read it further if I could but at this moment I can't stand the layout of the post and now I have a headache trying to read past the disclaimer.
I will try to find out about it in game I suppose.
Nope, the disclaimer says it wells: "No one beyond invited members knows about it in-character" and any respectable roleplayer will know about it"
Hmmm, well seeing as I am not a "reaspectable role-player" or "Invited member" guess I won't be finding out. ::)
Anyway Phinehas has a point. How can you judge if a person is a good role-player vs bad roleplayer? Do you have expereince with this sort of thing? Enough to feel confident in making those decisions? Not only that but he is right to say it isn't fair that you over look a character just because they don't role-play to your standards but their character is fit for the job. That isn't seperating IC and OOC and makes me wonder about your role-play skills and what you see as a good enough role-player to join your "secret club".
You misundertood what I have meant. I mean only invited members should have knowledge about it from a RP perspective. What I have meant by saying any good roleplayer would know about it, was that any good roleplayer would know the fact that his character won't have access to this kind of information.
Also I don't make the roleplaying standards, I've read the RP guide and have made "my" standard based on it : http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=10310.msg125203#msg125203
Too much misundertandings I guess :(
Anyway my "standards" aren't so restrictive and even lower than the ones in the RP guide. As long as one don't shouts anything like "Woohoo, I've joined a secret 1337 guild" and is willing to improve his roleplaying skills I won't mind lack of experience in the matter. Guess I should have used less drastic words.
Off topic: I have played some roleplaying games based on D&D universe before PS, so I have some experience with RPGs
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*Matt, with a dazed little man on his shoulder.*
Meh, what was the purpose of posting if you can't tell us what you do? Why would we care you exist? Frankly, this sounds like boasting to me. Some newbie feels the need to lord it over everyone else by informing them that they've been left out of a so-called "secret society". If I started a secret society, I would keep it secret.
I rarely agree with phin, but i have to say i agree, The best secret societies would be the ones that are known throuought Yliakum, but hidden from our forums.
I don't mind though, thanks for posting and sharing some info with us, hope that organization goes well.
/me slips my jacket on, running through the alleyways back to my own secret hideaway.
lol :)
~~Datruth
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:) Ok fair enough lordraleigh. You have answered my questions, and I did indeed misunderstand certain words. Good luck with your "secret" and may your organization prosper.
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@miadon: There's nothing to say that this guild is similar to Free Masons. Already, there are some differences - Free Masons don't claim to have an overarching plan that their organization works towards, and the Free Masons are not at all a secret society. They are secretive, but not at all secret.
@lordraleigh: You haven't included any details on the history or purpose of your guild. If you expect people to discover such things, then you haven't really given anyone a way to start. You've said "Hey, here's a guild you're not supposed to know about!", but you haven't said why this guild is important or how people can interact with it. Also, you shouldn't use the word "classified". Classified means that you admit that the information is there, but you can't reveal it. I'm not sure that's what you mean to say.
Good luck with your guild. I'm fond of secret organizations when they're done well.
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I think the reference to the freemasons had a couple points, one of the ranks is that of a mason who will be building their clubhouse. The other was a riff on my talking about higher orders that ordinary members know nothing about and purposes of which they are also unaware, both of which have rightly or wrongly been said of the Freemasons.
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Ok, I just noticed the post in the guild list, and now I'm really confused. So basically what you're running here is a public secret guild? Public OOC, but private IC?
Not to be cynical, but I'm thinking it's not going to last too long.
In my opinion, a secret organisation should be known only to those whom the current members have deemed worthy to join.
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I think the reference to the freemasons had a couple points, one of the ranks is that of a mason who will be building their clubhouse. The other was a riff on my talking about higher orders that ordinary members know nothing about and purposes of which they are also unaware, both of which have rightly or wrongly been said of the Freemasons.
Lower levels are aware of higher levels, they just don't associate with each other.
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Officially there is no order higher than 33rd in the Scottish Rite as can be seen from their own websites. There are stories that there are higher orders where the real purpose of Masonry is known. It was to these stories I was referring. I make no claim for the stories veracity, I just mention their existence.
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Officially there is no order higher than 33rd in the Scottish Rite as can be seen from their own websites. There are stories that there are higher orders where the real purpose of Masonry is known. It was to these stories I was referring. I make no claim for the stories veracity, I just mention their existence.
Hmm. News to me.
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The best secret societies would be the ones that are known throuought Yliakum, but hidden from our forums.
Wouldn't really be a secret socity if it was known through out Yliakum would it?
So OOC we know it exists but we're not allowed to know its function or goals? Seems a tad silly to bother posting then to be honest.
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The best secret societies would be the ones that are known throuought Yliakum, but hidden from our forums.
Wouldn't really be a secret socity if it was known through out Yliakum would it?
So OOC we know it exists but we're not allowed to know its function or goals? Seems a tad silly to bother posting then to be honest.
There is a goal and function: "To work towards progress of Yliakum, so future generations may live in a better world"
(Clear the cache of your browser. There isn't anymore "classified" stuff. Or read its lasts lines it is there also a way to contact me),
Giving more details would be something like telling "The ending of the singleplayer RPG X is this way: ...". In other words: it would be like a spoiler. How would be fun to join a organization where your character was invited if you as player already knew all its details and secrets?
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There is a goal and function: "To work towards progress of Yliakum, so future generations may live in a better world"
It dosn't say that in the first post. Seems pointless posting without it.
New guild, information is as follows: -classified- :P
Giving more details would be something like telling "The ending of the singleplayer RPG X is this way: ...". In other words: it would be like a spoiler. How would be fun to join a organization where your character was invited if you as player already knew all its details and secrets?
I wasn't asking for all its secrets, just for a bit more detail than 'classified.'
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And you still haven't given a way that your guild can interact with the community and a way the community can interact with the guild. Right now, it's just "out there".
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I think it's perfectly legitimate for a secret guild / organisation to advertise on the forums. As long as people keep OOC and IC separated there's no harm done. Of course there will always be people who can't separate both, but that's a risk he takes at his full mind.
Only to invite good roleplayers is an other right you have. To be in a guild / organisation together it has to work out both IC and OOC-ly.
Some say: "you should have kept it secret OOC-ly" while others said "you should give more information on the forums". To me it seems that a road in the middle is just as arguable. Why not try to use a forum thread as a teaser? I'm not sure if the key words "secret" and "good alligned" alone can do the trick, but there's no harm in trying. In fact I think that a recruitment threads rarely ever work, but that's an other discussion.
Maybe it would be nice if you provided your in game char name, so people can contact you ingame?
Any way... good luck. You're gonna need it. Launching a good RP guild is not an easy thing.
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Another thought... what would a secret society possibly be able to do unless the members themselves are quite powerful? However, this doesn't seem like the sort of thing that all sorts of guild leaders are going to jump at and what-not... I know that it's probably still a valid idea, but Phinehas, for one, wouldn't want to join a secret society full of crafters and random useless individuals. He would want to know that the society had some real power, and therefore a point.
*The little man on Matt's shoulder nods his head emphatically.*
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I know that it's probably still a valid idea, but Phinehas, for one, wouldn't want to join a secret society full of crafters and random useless individuals. He would want to know that the society had some real power, and therefore a point.
Hmm. That seems to me OOC knowledge leaking into Phinehas. What "real power" is, I mean.
Is it money? Is it skills? Is it the ability of earning PPs fast? Just game mechanisms. The game may be somehow unbalanced, now... 20 levels in the Blue Way aren't as effective as 20 in the Red one? (I don't really know, just making examples) 20 levels in metallurgy won't make you earn money faster than 20 levels in sword? A top warrior is currently more "powerful" than a top crafter? All this is OOC knowledge. A top metallurgist would be highly respected in Yliakum, just as a top sword maker, and no less than a top swordman. Phinehas should consider a secret society made by top crafters as quite powerful.
More about it... There's a lot of fighting action in game, now, but Yliakum is supposed to be a civilized world. Highly skilled professionals, including crafters, are expected to be very rich, and overall considered very successful in life, even more than skilled warriors. And in a RP world, in theory, there's no need to earn any PP or money. You could play a nobleman, or be rich, without carrying a single tria. In fact, rich men usually don't need to actually carry money at all. Most of the time they don't even need to display any skill. I said "in theory" of course, because playing such a character would need a lot of cooperation (and agreement) by other players. But imagine an organization like a Bank backing such a character up. He would be able to buy top weapons, and to pay top warriors and mages as bodyguards/mercenaries. He could create a "personal army". He would be "powerful" as long as money is power in the real of Yliakum.
Whether to cooperate or not, is entierly up to you, the player. But if you decide to accept that setting, well Phinehas will have to comform, somehow. And what if the rich man is a member of that secret society?
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You obviously have no idea who I am or what I'm like. I don't level, I don't place a lot of emphasis on the game mechanics at all, and probably won't until they're at least somewhat completed. I AM talking RP. Power could be many different things. In my opinion, right now the only true RP power in-game is influence, whether this means being a guild leader, or simply well-known and respected, etc. etc.
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Hmm. That seems to me OOC knowledge leaking into Phinehas. What "real power" is, I mean.
Is it money? Is it skills? Is it the ability of earning PPs fast? Just game mechanisms.
I think Phinehas meant powerful as in "having influence". The ability to move people into a certain line of action.
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You obviously have no idea who I am or what I'm like.
That explains nothing. And it's rude, at least. I don't know you but I know your words. And I judge them, without judging you. It happens when you write in public.
Btw, you don't know me either.
I don't level, I don't place a lot of emphasis on the game mechanics at all, and probably won't until they're at least somewhat completed. I AM talking RP. Power could be many different things. In my opinion, right now the only true RP power in-game is influence, whether this means being a guild leader, or simply well-known and respected, etc. etc.
That's exactly the same of what I wrote. I must have misunderstood your previous post, if you meant that. Still you leave me with no ideas on how Phinehas would judge the "power" of that secret society, since he knows nothing about its existance.
A secret society by definition has obscure influence and no one exactly knows the limits of its power. Not even the members maybe.
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Secrets cannot be ultimately kept. No matter how hard you try someone finds out. Perhaps they overhear you talking do to peculiarity of acoustics when someone accidentally speaks in main when they think you are alone. Also things do not happen on their own so if something significant happens that has no obvious cause people will tend to speculate and/or investigate. One thing about societies is that people can see who associates with whom and characters get matched. If you think you can get away from this by never being together and doing all your plotting/conversing in a guild channel then you are taking OOC advantage of the game system. The men from U.N.C.L.E., CONTROL, CHAOS, all had secret clubhouses and all had ways to identify their members which could be discovered by a careful observer.
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Secrets cannot be ultimately kept.
Sure thing. But looks like it would take quite some time before someone gains enough IG knowledge to name an organization "a secret society full of crafters and random useless individuals." That's why I thought some OOC knowledge was leaking in.
I still wonder how good RPers (a requirement for members) can run characters who are "random useless individuals" IG. I still wonder why "random useless individuals" seem to go in the same group with "crafters". That's why I assumed that "useless == not powerlevelled".
I've been proven wrong, enogh for me.
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My main character is known by most people as a random useless individual and I'm having fun just fine. O--)
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My main character is known by most people as a random useless individual and I'm having fun just fine. O--)
Who is your main character? We've gotta RP sometime :woot: :thumbup:
~~Datruth
p.s Mines Restound by the way, incase you didn't know.