PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xillix Queen of Fools on March 03, 2008, 06:05:59 am
-
Ok weigh in.
-
It is an absolutely USELESS feature and should be removed immediately There is no logical use for it and the only one that people have come up with RARELY happens. It is totally impossible to keep it as it is. It MUST go.
-
In real life, unless someone introduces you, you are unlikely to know who they are.
Perhaps some of the more 'famous' people ingame should be on everyone's 'I know who you are list."
That is all.
-
I totally agree with SovHed. It's so damn USELESS! The devs got lost between being realistic and being enjoyable. Wrong direction guys, its a game!
-
I remember this as a feature that was requested by many players for years. So this wasn't fabricated off the top of some dev's head for your general displeasure.
-
As they are, and limited only to what they do... no, I do not like them. I found myself speaking to a crowd this morning. Ten or so people. It was quite an ordeal to introduce my character to each and every person there on an individual basis, when normally you would just proclaim your name to the entire crowd.
Another issue came up when people started introducing back. The people without intro's were lost in the crowd, and it becameanother ordeal to make sure everyone was intro'ed to my character. I think I did miss at least one or two. (there was a reason for needing to see the individuals)
Let's also take into account two more things. One, you never say anything when you intro, mechanics side, so you have to still RP "Hi, I am <name>". Two, if you did intro, and there were folks near you, they would also hear your name, and know your name as well.
Last, you must take into account those you have met, seen before, or had someone else say "That is <name>". The first two you can know, but not know the name of. I give the example of a Klyros I met coming on my way back from Gugrontid. He asked for directions (in a very good RP manner), and I responded alike. If I met that Klyros again, I would not know his name, but I would know him. If someone points at another character and says his or her name, then everyone is also going to know that person's name.
So, as a stand-alone feature, I find it hard to use and distracting. It feels very unnatural. As a single feature in a larger system that would account for the examples above, it would be a good start.
In addition... >.> <.<
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=28003.msg321194#msg321194 ;)
-
Another thing I notice. Action messages such as /me waves to $target" show the player name regardless of whether i know them or not. It is so bugged it really needs removing/completely changing. Removing gets my vote.
Also I'd like to point out a convo at the mining points can go horribly fked .... if "someone says" a whole conversation to "someone"... Who the heck are you talking to? I'll never know as Im not introducing myself to 50% of the online pop.... who appear to be addicted to mining
-
I know it is still a system in early development, so it needs a chance to grow into itself. I actually prefered the short-lived 'say NPCs name' sytems, and think it would have been a lot better in the end, but it was never given a chance.
If there were layers of knowing someone, such as seen once before, talked to before, know first or last name, know full name, know very well, etc, the system would be rather enjoyable for me. Take out the awkward /introduce and replace it with a text parser that knows when you say your own name (or someone near you does), and those around you will automatially know your name. That would be my perfect system. And also not expected to happen for some time.
If this can happen:
Hyuken says: Hello Einnol! Nice to see you again. This is my new friend Kunguev. He is a miner."
-and all the names appear automatically, that would make me very happy. :D
-
Hehe I would also be very pleased if this could be so. However I think this is quite a long way away in reality. Something to think about however :)
-
Maybe I missed something but I spent the day looking at peoples names, can't say I talked to many though. The one guy I talked to introduced himself forthwith though I did not bother to do the same. Sadly I re-installed the game after that and lost the logs so I never noticed "someone says" though I seem to recall hearing someone specific talking in the tavern but perhaps they were just taking an action and not actually saying anything. I do not recall seeing any chat bubbles either but I may have them turned off. The only time I saw <unknown> was when I targeted someone and it showed up in the target status bar.
One thing is sure to me and that having gauged the community before introducing introductions this thread is extremely premature. Now that it is here it should be given at least a month's trial unless it is one of the systems that is known to be causing instability. Many people have disliked any number of previous implementations but have come to accept them over time. You still get the occasional carp session but that is about it.
-
i think it's a good feature, _when_ you can't see the other names ;D
at the moment you see over the players head his/her name. but only when you select him/her, then you see under your health,stamina,mana, etc. display <unknown>. yeah... it's quite funny, because you still see his/her name over his head ;)
so it's buggy and atm useless, but when the bug is solved, it's good. ;)
-
This is a game, in real life you would recognize people but hence you look like another 100 people in the game this is a useless feature.
The introducing is tiresome and if you introduce twice or someone logs out the introduction is lost? i find myself just reading the description of people to find their names because you introduce yourself and not often does someone introduce themselves. I say either remove or at least leave people first names. All the dwarves should have their name on their back anyways due to the fact that theyre wearing a football jersey :P... nah it looks great...
Edit: set ur names to visible on mouse *wink wink*
Edit: plus it is seriously bugged atm, i introduced myself to someone earlier and now i cant see his nametag or re introduce myself.
-
I do not think this is an useless feature at all. In fact it leaves many possibilities open, especially for the more shady characters.
You can now keep your name a secret or even lie about it and use different names without OOC contradictions by the label tags. It also allows you to spot people you know from further away .. since they're the only ones with a label tag over their heads now.
I do agree with some statements that there should be more options for introducing. For example it should be possible to introduce someone else that's already been introduced to you. Also a mass introduction, something that targets everyone within hearing range is very handy for public icons.
All in all, tis a good feature but still a lot of perfection is needed.
Edit to add:
Maybe there can also be an option to forget about certain introductions. People keep introducing themselves to me while I really don't want to bother remembering their names (read: seeing their labels.)
-
I'll have to go with a mixture of Zan's and Mooney's opinions on this one... It's a good idea, and it should stay, but only in the sense that it's the beginning of a better system... not in the sense that it's perfect and shouldn't be changed ever.
-
When i heard the system was going to be introdiced i though it was a good idea.
Now that i've experienced it i'm not so sure. It's a a bit awkward, and it kind of hindered RP as has been stated before. I suppose it might get better with time as the people on your "introduced" list grows.
-
I don't like it at all, so i voted "NO". The whole system is terribly bugged and it makes (at least my) RP very hard if not nearly impossible. The reasons have already been stated by others ...
-
Noobies introduction spamming isn't helping the experience either.
-
I agree with Phinehas. Zan's statements are good, but the system needs to grow like UtM says. It's shouldn't be removed anyway, SovHed is being a bit too rash ;)
I'm sooooo happy I can now walk around without seeing labels above everybody's heads all the time without "missing" the people I actually know. And I'm also very happy people don't randomly start talking to me while they actually just read my name on a forum. People can recognize me by my roleplay anyway.
I think one good addition would be replacing Someone with "A $gender $race" like the wishlist thread suggests, to prevent confusion. But until then, if you actually look around instead of staring at the chat window, you can see who is talking by chatbubbles. :)
-
I have to say I really like the beginnings this displays. I think it's wonderful that if you want to "know" someone you actually need to take time to introduce yourself. Not five minutes into the new world and I made two new friends whom I probably would not have made if one nice fellow hadn't introduced himself, therefore getting my attention. It was only natural that I introduce myself back and that led to a conversation! Think it has great rp potential, especially when sitting at the bar and "someone" is telling secrets :whistling:
and for those who don't want to be known, it's wonderful!
-
I do not think this is an useless feature at all. In fact it leaves many possibilities open, especially for the more shady characters.
You can now keep your name a secret or even lie about it and use different names without OOC contradictions by the label tags. It also allows you to spot people you know from further away .. since they're the only ones with a label tag over their heads now.
I take the exact same example as point against the introductions.
As shady character I can now NOT spot people from further away, or listen to their conversations. Worse, this is true also for people I watched maybe for years.
With the introduction system I would now have to go to my targets and say "Hey, Im the one who is secretly watching you. Please introduce youself so I can continue" (Ok, this is IC-OOC mix ;D )
In general I think the introductions prevent more roleplay than it supports.
I do agree with some statements that there should be more options for introducing. For example it should be possible to introduce someone else that's already been introduced to you. Also a mass introduction, something that targets everyone within hearing range is very handy for public icons.
I hope the introduction system won't remain in game, but if it will, this would at least help.
Sen
-
I had both more than once, foreigners who lied about their name, and lied about my own char's one either. This feature is just for taking responsibility off players.
Since I presume that feature will remain anyway, that point suggested somewhere else is a need no doubt: Instead of "Someone" please make it <gender> + <race> (like someone suggested somewhere else). After 1-2 hours of playing yesterday all of a sudden the names of all people who already had introduced themselves to me were lost again. I found myself in a round of people and not being able to say if a voice comes from a female or a man, yep not even from what direction made me feel unnaturaly blind.
Additionally, having to introduce to 2 people separately, although theres not more distance in between than half a meter is a joke. At least make it a certain range the /introduction works within.
But however, having to make sure that technical matters worked and support what would be a sure thing within a second by nature, like UtM pointed out, is disturbing and interrupting the flow.
I vote for "NO, it's useless and annoying!", mainly due to the responsibility thing.
-
As I mentioned in the Wishlist thread, I haven't actually gotten to see the new system in person yet, (alas, shiny Apple computer, you fail me again), so I reserve the right to do a 180 on my opinion later, but I admit the system seems like major overkill for a minor nuisance. I think it could be clever if it was refined considerably - I like Under the moon's suggestions, and I'd like to add that for player convenience it would be nice if there was a simple way to establish in one go various people you already know and would rather not have to use the /introduce system on, or people you've been mass-introduced to, like a "/know Bob, Hugaboo, Flim, Whatsiface, Jim" or something.
The way it's set up, it looks like the minor annoyance of bad RPers being all "Hi, <your name here>!" to perfect strangers has been replaced by the major annoyance of people introducing themselves to people they realistically wouldn't, or coming in and introducing themselves en spammy masse before, or without, bothering to actually RP, etc. etc.
I don't vote it be completely scrapped, but I would like to see it maybe rolled back while the devs refine it a little to make it more usable.
-
I voted yes because it works exactly as I expect it to. I introduced myself to Marqsaynt ten or so times the other day and he couldn't remember who the heck I was.
-
Overall, good idea. But, I shouldn't need to introduce myself to my own guildmates. Maybe a notorioty system too, so some people will be recognized by all (saw that already posted), obviously this kind of system couldn't be made overnight.
-
Sen, that is an OOC case you mentioned. If you already knew the people before the introduction system then you clear that OOCly. This system allows the use of disguises and prevents OOC abuse that was so common before.
You can't always recognize people if they wear revealing clothes. So now you're at the mercy of a player's description whether you can recognize them or not. Sure it can be abused in an unrealistic way but the abuse is much much smaller than before the introduction system. The introduction system allows more realism and prevents poor roleplayers from using OOC information.
Also on a general note, completely disapproving of a feature because of temporary bugs isn't a strong argument. Bugs will be fixed. Disapprove of the bugs, not the feature.
-
Now that I have spent a little more time in the game with a fresh install it seems that this functionality is accomplished with files in the options directory. When I copied this directory from the previous version it broke a number of things, this being one. I still think it needs time but I have my own suggestion for an improvement, easier said than done. Allow multiple character selections either in the realm or in the chat interface and have the introduction apply to all selected.
-
I voted yes because it works exactly as I expect it to. I introduced myself to Marqsaynt ten or so times the other day and he couldn't remember who the heck I was.
duh....you're not a fenki. Those are the only names he remembers. ;)
I think it's still too early to tell whether or not it should be taken away. It makes sense in terms of RP but not in terms of game mechanics, and since this is a mostly roleplaying game, having to introduce yourself to everyone again makes sense.
But in light of what others said, say if you're doing an event and everyone needs to know your name, individual introductions doesn't make sense. After all, if you were at an event in RL where ppl needed to know your name it would be done publicly and en mass. If not, then you press the flesh and greet everyone individually. it works for politicians, why not PS? :P
-
I would propose replacing the introductions system. Instead of having to type /introduce, no name tags are shown, and you can fill other's people's name in by yourself.
I'd like to keep the current one if that isn't possible though.
-
I still like the idea of it, but it is not working properly for me. With two out of three people I exchanged introductions with yesterday it didn't "stick". Asides from the actual introduction which revealed their name, there was no label and they remained "unknown". It did work for the very first introduction, however.
-
i dont think a lot of people understand how they can use this to their benefit. Thieves and rogues, for example, can choose not to introduce themselves to anyone and remain anonymous to everyone,just change their description so it reads "cloaked figure...etc" and everyone would be like "There is that cloaked figure that robbed me!" instead of "Hey look, there is Sov, he robbed me (after never actually learned his name)"
Also, having to be introduced to all your guildmates is OOC if you have just have met them through the chat. Meeting them face-to-face is IC and therefore that is the only time you should be introduced to that person. Otherwise, your character doesn't actually know who is who, or really who is even in the guild ICly.
The problem that i'm sure a lot of people feel they don't like this system is the timing. It was implemented after people have, well, already introduced themselves and met more than half the people in yliakum. This system would have been better if implemented after a character wipe, BUT I still think it is a good thing to have in the game.
-
Besides the valid advantage for rogues, lets not forget the disadvantage for victims.
The example may be a bit unrealistic, but not more than the whole thing:
One ylian comes to ambush me, his description says ".. wears a brown leather suit". I see his face and he runs off escaping me. The next day I see an ylian who "wears a red velvet suit". My char could recognize his voice and his face with determination, but since the ylian is "Unknown" I got no chance.
Also, I can only ever have a certain person different to others if he wants it himself! That cant be true. Like discussed to extends I cant check descirptions of people constantly only to know whos around.
We have some plot being played at the moment, and I am not sure how can we continue it at all now. Secretly finding out details about persons and gathering knowledge about groupings becomes unrealistically difficult if not impossible now.
So: Add an option to tag people, or mark them, or give them an own description, an individual name!
-
good roleplayer doent need it, and the powerleveler dont need it.
i would prefer it if the tags are only in a different colour, for example green for the one i already was introduced and red for the others.
the secret stuff is not rp for me, cause in rl i could remember perhaps the face.
-
Not if the assailant is wearing a face-covering helmet or a mask.
-
What I like about it, is that you can see at once, whether there are people you know in a crowd. But on the other hand, normally you would remember faces, even without talking to everyone, and this feature makes it pretty hard to look for someone you were only told about. And in the beginning, it's a bit ennerving to have to re-introduce yourself to all the people you know.
-
i enjoy it. my grumpy social outcast character finally has the ability to not have everyone and their kitchen sink come up to them as if they knew them just becuase they could see the name label.
I find it to be a great start that will continue to be improved on.
-
Aye, it feels like a good solid feature that just needs time to be perfected.
There should be an indirect object form: /introduce playerA to playerB. playerA doesn't have to know about it :D
-
There should be an indirect object form: /introduce playerA to playerB. playerA doesn't have to know about it :D
Yep, as long as the player introducing someone else, knows that someone else they are going around intorducing to others, they should be able to go around introducing them to other people all they wanted. makes perfect sense to me.
-
I had a bit of a problematic experience with the introductions system today.
I was playing my merchant character and was trying to sell an item to the highest bidder through the auction tab. However as you can imagine : Someone bids 500 tria, someone bids 800 tria made it next to impossible to complete the auction without first asking everyone interested to introduce themselves to me first.
I really can't think of a way round this without excluding the auction tab from introductions. Unless there was a mass introduce command, but i'm not sure i like the sound of that.
P.s. On a side note, i found my introductions didn't always stick. I frequently had to reintroduce myself to people i had met earlier that day. :flowers:
-
I am just wondering how you are going to parse the poll data. The current 10 option 3 voters may not be the only people posting. I guess you are just looking for a rough idea.
-
It is an absolutely USELESS feature and should be removed immediately There is no logical use for it and the only one that people have come up with RARELY happens. It is totally impossible to keep it as it is. It MUST go.
You don't even play planeshift you noob...
Ahem... I voted yes... the feature just needs tweaking, but.. I like the basic idea.
Aye, it feels like a good solid feature that just needs time to be perfected.
-
I like it, though there are smiple ways to see the name ;) Still it's more difficult then with character labels and I'm pretty sure the 'other ways' are going to be fixed soon(tm) it's a great improvement for characters that don't want to be known publicly
Though perhaps at a big Event, the host should be able to 'mass introduce' the audience to her/himself, that's just a side note ;)
:lol: :flowers:
-
I feel more comfortable without introductions.
As I told someone earlier today, people using fake names have a hard time keeping those fake names because of this system. People who like to roleplay using game mechanics, for whatever reason, will think that when you /introduce yourself to them (but you're using a fake name in your actual roleplay) they know your actual name, which can get confusing.
-
Don't /introduce yourself if you want to use a fake name. Use /me shakes X's hand "Hello, I'm mr. fakey!" :P
-
The only problem I have with intoductions is all the "someones". otherwise, I like it
-
oh um one problem...if you go to someone's description where it says "You evaluate that <name> will not require any effort to defeat" it still says their name. It also says their name when using emotes like /greet, /laugh, /sleep, etc
-
Don't /introduce yourself if you want to use a fake name. Use /me shakes X's hand "Hello, I'm mr. fakey!" :P
But then people will just run right by you and not recognize you, since no one bothers to read descriptions.
-
I do!!! lol
-
Here is a thought: find a way to allow the player to specify the un-introduced label, have it appear differently, say italicized so it is fairly obviously not the official name. Certainly the player could set it to his actual name but the only people who can be certain they are talking to who they are talking to are those who have been introduced. Introduced people would have the standard font name. Alternatively to italic the font color could be different but the font background remain as is. That way fewer sombody says and more fakename says
-
Now that I've gotten to use it a few times, I have to give the introduction system one major prop: it's definitely an RP spawner. I've had conversations with people I probably wouldn't have without it, since it gives an added bonus to being social.
I'm still not thrilled with the "Somebody" thing, and I think it needs a lot of fine-tuning to make it less burdensome for players, but I definitely won't mind it sticking around.
-
I'ld suggest a concept where one might have the choice to go incognito or become anonymous to all but guild members and buddies. Such a toggle would need to be transparent from both an OOC and IC perspective. So that when a character does switch on a hidden-identity flag, he/ she/it is still recognized by guild members and buddies - albeit as one who is hiding their identity for whatever reason (and the same character is then displayed to all others as completely anonymous until an IC exchange occurs, if any). let the players deal with introductions IC then.
Extroduce vs introduce? You've seen me before but never like this.
Just some thoughts,
Eila
-
Now that I've gotten to use it a few times, I have to give the introduction system one major prop: it's definitely an RP spawner.
I personally would be interested in details, since it spoiled mine so far. I assume it is _not_ that you introduced (yourself) the first time to strangers now with that feature, so I'd like to know how to use this feature for additional roleplay, too :P
-
All right... I was always against it. And still I am. I dont have possibility to investigate much about how it looks or works, but got some basic info so.. here are my thoughts.
I dont consider the global idea as wrong. Otherwise, the idea is great, just game is not yet in state when it can be used.
Right now, its more then annoying.. In time, it can be great feature.
I'd like to bring some cons and pros in this so... Lets go.
CONS:
1) First and most annoying and unrealistic thing is that there is no other way to recognise person you once met again.
-You really can't recofnise his/her voice? (Didnt see voiceshifter yet. And I'm not up to check everyone's description I meet... really not.)
-Clothes? (ok, those can change in RP, but still...)
-Shape? (99% of male characters is V shaped ^.^)
-Are all races exactly same look (plenty of characters has no description, and if do, then its pretty bad to put it in memory. Realisticly, is way easier to remember someone's look then text, which is even pretty often missing, or similar to eachother.)
-Making notes of description of everyone I meet to roleplay "characters memory on faces" and compensate player's "lack of text memory".... nuuu, wrong isnt it?
-Any other sign, you can recognise others... Smell for Enkis, magical auras anything.....
2) This system brings up constant reading of others descriptions... It not exactly bad things, but checking 'everyone' who passes around you.
-For example tell someone "Hey... I saw you a lot of times in tavern... you like drinkiong?"...Thats void now. Your characet can recognise someone even from glace, especially if he sees him/her often, even without introduce, or speciall attention (again, I wont check everyone's description. Constant desc. reading is game experience spoiler.)
3) Abuse of this system is... more then clear.
-"Bad guy" runs in tavern, do mess and then, without introduce he disappears, changes description completely and tada... We have great roleplay here and many pissed players with spoiled mood.
4) Where are the other ways of getting someone's name?
-You are standing besides two talking people: "Hi, I'm Grbobuban". Reply: "I'm Plubumaba." And you still stares at them, confused without knowing a simple name.
-Many other ways as well, I wont state them all. Asking someone else. Yeah, labels works sometimes as well. Signed letters...
5) Very important thing are logs....
- I'm sorry, this will spoil MANY stories. When I'm writing story, I'm using log. And RP can start way sooner before we are introduced (in case of foe, he will unlikely introduce at all) to the one we playing with and... eh... wait. In logs are only SOMEONES?!?... damn, I dont remember exactly what he did and said.. Could be any someone of those. So... what that mean? No story, yeah. Maybe you can poke the player for his logs, combine it and get dicouraged with a lot of more work then you really need.
-This point I'm taking as one of very important. You want more nice stories? Remove introduces, now. I've written some and yes, it IS a great issue.
6) "Who from crowd said it" issue.... or.. it was the one behind me? Seems my ability to recognise voices direction is lost.
-I know, weak point, but its a point. (eh, are chat bubbles still active?)
7) Imagine... someone gives you description of someone really well recogniseable (large scar on face, glowing eyes, pink robe, uncommon height....)
-You know race, description of this very easily noticeable thing, gender... And you will run around, clicking everyone's description like mad to find as player who the heck is it, even if your character whould notice him at very first glance in crowd. So you will miss him by Harn, even if he will pass in front of you. Sorry, point for realism down.
8) Your cheracters hears hassle of shouts, or even talks out of his sight. He wants to go and help there, perhaps someone wants rob someone. Example:
-Poor guy:"Leg me go!", Robber: "No way, give money", Poor guy: "No, please, I dont have any.", Robber: "Come on, done be silly", Robber: "Yeah, all wealthe you has.", Poor guy: "Here... take all.", Robber: "Nice... thanks, clothes too 'please'."...
Your character runs there!.... to stare then at 5 robbers, against which he has no chance. How so... Well, how namy voices it was? 1 same? 5? Strange.
(yeah, this is just closer example of nr1, sorry)
9) I fear introdues spam....
- You will be spamed by introduces of random people.... I think even the best point of for example ThomPhoenix stated will go void, cause he will be soon introducespamed by many and will miss those who knows anyway... With unknow names in brackets (+maybe different collor? Just dont make too many collors and mess in it, we will need one collor for afk status as well ^.^) others wont be so interested in spamming you to make everyone "know" you. Right?
10) Its true, that when you see someone around many times, you are tempted to talk to him. Thats void now. Minus towards RP in PS. Sad.
11) All right, this shoudl be all. Last point I'll give to some statements and conclusion, what cons brings this system.
-Constant annoying with introduces constantly to everyone
-Constant annoying with reading everyone's description (slower then character's glance, lag makes you miss a lot of people, abusable a lot)
-Spoiled roleplay of spies (they are used to get a names in else ways and its easy to lost someone in game mechanics in crowd) and hearing gossips in taverns for example.
-Messed text, like: Who says what? Did you answered, or its still talking this one guy.
-Easy abuse of ability to stay 'unknown' all the time. Wrong RP bad guys paradise.
-Overall more real feel of the game is lost. Players attention is gone from the experience towards many different ooc things.
-Newbies and noobs introduce spam.
-Ruined storywriting..... :''(
So.... and now some PROS.. :) The idea is nice, like I said.... but not yet.
1) Like stated here already, without introduce, you are kinda ignored by random people, which is realistic (if its good for RP in game is nother question, but I'll keep it in pros)
2) Player now can as well ignore ramdom passing people, knowing he will not miss friends without constant attention. (works for some time, before you gets spammed by others introductions...)
3) Your name label will not be abused and used as IC knowlidge (Its most reasonable point I see why to have this system)
-I'll miss situations like: Random newb: "Hey Miaua.", Me: /me frowns "How do you know my name?", Newb panics and is learned a bit about RP.
4) Better concentration on chat with those you knows in crowd (you can simply ignore someones)
5) Though discussable, it might rise some a litlle more realistic feeling.
6) Sorry... thats all I can invent. Someone help? Conclusion then:
-Prevents some abuses of knowlidge your name and using it for bad RP.
-Good for recognising those you know and dont know faster in crowds (not sure how this evolve in time... introduce spam anyone?)
-Soon(tm) will this system work well... My opinion is that this soon is really not here yet....
....Well... overall I'd say just this:
Its soon for this system, its maybe good system too soon, or wrong managed.
I would like to see kept the simple way for players how to racognise all others better then player can with description reading. I already suggested names in brackets. So will even newbs after going through tutorial, that its OCC information and they shouldnt use it IC. Roleplay and storywriting will stay unharmed and main point of those who are for this system will stay as well (they still will know who introdused himself and mainly... you wont be constantly spamed by introduces)
For what I see till now, it brings a little good, but a lot of bad. And even those good things will fade in time, while bad will keep staying.
I guess many agrees with me. I would like to hear some reasonable statements why yes, which will beat this issues... Then, I'll agree.
With regards.
Miaua :)
-
When I tested just before the release, I thought it was good, because I play with labels set to "on mouseover", and with that setting I could see anyone's labels, the name in the description window, and so on. I did not realize that with the default setting they were hidden, as they were all that originally, then they were changed, and I'd heard they were working as intended.
But after reading what Miaua said, and seeing the "someone" confusion when in big groups in game, I'd suggest to solely have the information window show [unknown], and maybe the description, all other places would show the name. This way it is only a RP aid, in my opinion anything more is getting silly.
My guess, is that the more the game treats all players as irresponsible, the more likely it is to happen... and if there is no way to find out someone's name without them introducing themselves, the /report and similar commands are useless (by the way, how usefull is "/add_ignore someone"? :P it works that way) so it does not work well as something to stop bad behavior.
Also, as stated somewhere else, to aid conversations in big groups, I suggest making the introduce command introduce you to all players withing hearing range as well, or maybe a slightly shorter range. This is more realistic: you heard the name said, whether you choose to remember it next time you see them, is up to you. Though a complement to that could be the "/introduce forget John" command or something similar.
-
Although I find it interesting and fairly entertaining, there are a few drawbacks.
Watching people in Auction, it's sometimes difficult to really know what to do. You'll have someone advertise, not know their name, nor a location, and that's confusing. So, to fix that, I decided to advertise with my general location and race. That's what you'd be looking for, right? But apparently, someone thought it was a dumb idea and gave me grief about using race.
And then the people who run up and introduce themselves to everyone. That's nice. You're trying to be friendly. But don't run away until I ask you why in the world you wanted to talk to me in the first place.
Finally, the large group setting someones. That's painful sometimes. Race and gender, maybe?
-
It might be "more realistic", but how realistic does a game need to be, to enjoy it?...
It is not bad for new characters, but really annoying for characters who know each other for years already.
And introducing your char to anyone in sight is not realistic either...
__
It is nothing wrong. Just something overestimated.
-
It is not bad for new characters, but really annoying for characters who know each other for years already.
flaw in your logic: technically, due to the game being in developement, time as it were in game is at a stand still, and therefore, anything that transpires in game now, technically, in an IC way of thinking has technically never happened.
now, players knowing other players for many years, that be a different story, since then you are dealing with RL time.
:)
-
so that is why some people complain about their introductions not taking...they never happened! :P
-
hey guys,
just close your eyes, let yourself be controlled by rules and and orders and... yep! you will be ending up with.. the /introduction system LOL! xD
seriously, this stuff is useful for beginners no doubt! =O
it will take away the.. "ooc'ness" of newbies who greet you with your name! yeah, no need to show them them things anymore , cool!=o
the whole lame atmosphere will be taken away! aww grand, yay! newbies wont be calling you by name anymore!
you never .. icly told one your name, and are fed of being adressed with your name by strangers? cool! now this nuisance will be gone!
neither you wont have to care about thinking about whose name is whose! the new system will take off all mental capability! wait a bit more and you can run around with your eyes closed! the game's mechanisms will do it all for you! lmao xD...
am i praising myself? not at all, my memory is too bad anyways to remember everyone, for such i got my best friend for (*winks*)..=P
fact is, this new system did not also take away many chances on intruiging gameplay, it also took away excitement, since it took responsibility from you. give the thought of that .. /introduction-system consequence and you may end up somewhere where you dont even have to be awake to be within the.rules =O (*yep, exaggerated now*)!
PS: I think its necessary to mention my post as being influenced by cynism, huh? xD
let the game rule you!.. until your personal opinion wont be asked for anymore;);)
-
One thing I found incongruous was that while I have never introduced myself to anyone an npc called me by name and said I was becoming known throughout the community. Now I realize the introduction facility is player to player and it was the fourth quest for the same npc, fifth counting the second time I did the first one he gave me, but if the introduction mechanism worked similarly it would be good. What I mean by that is if you interact with any given player character for any significant amount of exchanges -- say five or six conversations of three "say-reply" each you would get to know the name. I, personally, do not want to ask someone who they are unless I really need to know but I might ask someone else like an npc if I am curious. The reason for this is that knowing who they are without their knowing I know might give me an advantage in any negotiation we may undertake. Kind of far-fetched maybe.
-
me hiding in shadows, following constantly for days, overhearing friends of my target's calling it by name, i want to see my target at once, and not missing it when it is standing next to me for 5 (rl-) mins, missed by me only cos i wasnt quick enough to check and read the description (descriptions i would have to read for every other character i could see to not miss the same chance..)
i personally would prefer to have people commit mistakes, while the same time you have a choice on how to act. the /introduction-"restriction" though could be the first step into a direction to take away any freedom on cost of players' wont be able to commit mistakes.
instead of players now teacing or showing newbies what its about, its the game to show and teach by restriction. thats boring and most limiting, while avoiding errors done by players the same time.
-
Simply put: I hate the introduction system! I think (at least in its current state) it is a complete failure and even avoids in-character-gameplay.
My reasons:
1. It is annoying because it is far more OOC seeing just an introduction-message than having a newbie asking you in an in-character style without introducing him-/herself (imho).
2. It is annoying also, because instead of having an in-character introduction like someone saying "greetings, I am ..." you only see an introduction message that gives you no clue at all about the person itself. It takes away a lot of individuality from the process of meeting new people.
3.It is inconsistent, because consequently you shouldn't even be able to see a players name floating over the character or its history without introducing yourself. But that wold be even more annoying, imho.
-
In my opinion the whole system is completely nonsense, let alone useless
There is very few roleplayers that will call another character by his/her name without knowing or having met before or overheard that name.
This reminds me of a schoolclass.. somebody misbehaved unseen and as the teacher doesn't know who the one is.. everybody gets punished!
It's exactly the same thing, the only difference is not all of us are 10yo kids :p
A player who can't understand that the labels are OOC won't understand anything else about roleplaying anyway, hence why the introductions won't help them. In fact.. introductions are OOC too!
See:
Player A approaches a group
Player A says: Hello
Player B says: Hi
Player B introduces him/herself so Player A can see who within the group of people is talking to him/her (there is no other way!)
Player A automatically calls Player B by his/her name...
Wrong! Player B still never told the name, yet Player A (the newbie whom this system is meant for) takes it as an IC introduction and uses it nonetheless.
What has player A learned? Nothing.
When the noob is a very new player it becomes worse. Before /introduce I would have to go OOC and tell the person I didn't tell my name, now I need to jump OOC anyway.. to explain how /introduce works AND to explain that he/she should still introduce IC.. typing and that, you know ;)
This new feature is much more disrupting than the old situation...
It STOPS RPing! Friend characters just walk past you since they can't see it's you, group talks are a nightmare unless you spam-introduce to everybody and they do the same with you (even though you may not know each other!), auctions are just funny (and don't tell the auctioner the name should be shouted too.. I have been shopping in the same place for years and I have no idea what's the shopkeepers' names), people you never met introduces for no reason... the system is a barrier to RP and an invitation to OOC. Let alone the bugs: I must have introduced to Zwenze at least 10 times by now.. but he still can't read my name. We have posponed our roleplay until his char can tell who the heck I am....
Now if /introduce is meant to be IC then it is even more blameable. Characters aren't mute, they can talk! And I want my char to.. I won't roleplay knowing a name unless my character heard it or knows the person, I don't care if somebody has introduced to me.. 50% of the names I can see are of people I never talked to since they just spammed the new command on me. Those, my character will still not recognize...
All in all, a big big annoyance and no help at all, even though I agree that maybe having names shown everywhere but having the label be of a different color would be handy to many people's memory ^_^'
-
Player A approaches a group
Player A says: Hello
Player B says: Hi
Player B introduces him/herself so Player A can see who within the group of people is talking to him/her (there is no other way!)
Player A automatically calls Player B by his/her name...
Wrong! Player B still never told the name, yet Player A (the newbie whom this system is meant for) takes it as an IC introduction and uses it nonetheless.
What has player A learned? Nothing.
wrong line of thinking.
As soon as player B use the /introduce command, it should be interpreted as player b going through the process of typing in "hello, my name is _____"
the command is a shortcut to help reduce typing, such as all slash commands and are there to facilitate RP. So IC'ly, when Player B uses the /introduce command, Player A's character has then learned Player B's character's name.
-
OK, I thought this was a great idea. But now I've had a bit of time to see it in action. It's troublesome.
I despise the intro spammers.
Anyone I already know is free to just /intro at me, and I'll return the favor.
Anyone else should RP an introduction, then use the feature.
Of course, it is quite buggy, and the repeated need to introduce myself to members of my own guild is getting old fast.
Players wanted it, and I think it's still a good idea, but it definitely needs some work.
One way to distinguish the invite spammers would be for their name to appear in one color (I don't know, purple?) until I returned the intro, then turn it green.
-
Players wanted it, and I think it's still a good idea, but it definitely needs some work.
I doubt they ever pictured it as it works now :p
Player A approaches a group
Player A says: Hello
Player B says: Hi
Player B introduces him/herself so Player A can see who within the group of people is talking to him/her (there is no other way!)
Player A automatically calls Player B by his/her name...
Wrong! Player B still never told the name, yet Player A (the newbie whom this system is meant for) takes it as an IC introduction and uses it nonetheless.
What has player A learned? Nothing.
wrong line of thinking.
As soon as player B use the /introduce command, it should be interpreted as player b going through the process of typing in "hello, my name is _____"
the command is a shortcut to help reduce typing, such as all slash commands and are there to facilitate RP. So IC'ly, when Player B uses the /introduce command, Player A's character has then learned Player B's character's name.
Then as I said, to me it is even worse. How is that meant to help RPing? It plainly denies it.
Following the same rule, I don't see why life stories would be wrong in a description. Next command that could be implemented is /explainstory and we could save a lot of typing! ..so we.. have more time to go around and PL?
I can't consider typing a console-like command roleplaying.. if I wanted to reduce typing I would play Quake 3, hm?
A well typed introduction can be very rich, it shows about the kind of character you are talking to.
Some will tell you about their jobs, some about their hobbies, some about their family tree and their ancestors.. all that is gone now then? No thanks. I may be wrong, but I will keep demanding people to talk to my char, not to the game's interface.
-
I never took the time to post so now I will :P
For the most part, I agree with Noriin and Velh on this one. I was talking about how bad the idea of the system would be when the idea was first presented to us. Fact is while I understand the wanting to have game mechanics this is just like that whole charisma argument we have going in another thread. It is a mechanic that limits rp, especially so by saying the /introduction takes the place of a player actually introducing themselves. Not only that, people run around randomly introducing themselves to anyone they see. You could argue that there are people in real life that would do this but we all know it's not what the person is most likely trying to do in this case.
Though I don't like the system I did vote yes in the poll. The reason why is while I find it to serve no purpose currently I figured that would be true no matter what because its the first time the system was implemented. I think in the future with some tweaking the system could actually help in some way. I can't think of anything at the moment but I'm sure there are ways to tweak the system in order to help. As it is right now, it seems like something that would be implemented in a PLing game where there is little rp and mostly hack and slash. Not something I'd see in ps that stresses the RP part of MMORPG. ;)
-
Your complaining has been listened to:
-If you use just "/introduce" without any added target, you will be introduced to anyone within /say range.
-If you use your own name, for example in the sentence "Hello, I am <playername>", you will automatically introduce yourself.
-
:thumbup: That's like very very Nice :sorcerer:
:flowers: :lol:
Now i hope we all can enjoy this new feature \\o//
-
Those are great news, specially the second one!
I assume the second works also for the /say range?
Thumbs up o/
-
Your complaining has been listened to:
-If you use just "/introduce" without anything added behind it, you will be introduced to anyone within /say range.
-If you use your own name, for example in the sentence "Hello, I am <playername>", you will automatically introduce yourself.
You guys are the best :)
-
That is awesome!
-
mmm well if its too OOC for you , why not scrap the labels all together..... :P
-
-If you use just "/introduce" without anything added behind it, you will be introduced to anyone within /say range.
What happens if you put something after the /introduce? Do you only introduce yourself to someone you have targeted or whose name you include? I was going to suggest that anything put after the /introduce be printed as the introduction i.e /introduce Greetings, friend, I am the grand Wazoo, sovereign of the Nation of the Fools! Greetings, friend, I am the grand Wazoo, sovereign of the Nation of the Fools!
>you have been introduced to SillyPutty
-
I actually meant "with no target". So if you target SillyPutty and do /introduce, you will introduce yourself. If you just use /introduce with no targets, you will introduce to all within hearing range.
-
See folks, as I said, the system will evolve. I was not expecting it to do so so soon, so I think the coders deserve a big thanks.
Next up "Hello <name of person you know>, this is <Name of another person you know>."
Double intro by third party! *hopes*
-
I greatly appreciate the effort of devs, and sure not only in this introduce system, but in PS allover. :)
I still think its more harm then good, with this system so soon, but your effort and improvements in it will make it acceptable even for such protestant as me. =^.^=
Well... my thoughts are posted already, I hope you will consider if its worthy yet, but however you will decide, PS will stay a peace of great MMORGP :D
By the way.. um.. som though.
...how do I recognise to whom did I already introduced? Or its on 'player's' memory?
Anyway... :D
Good work team, I hope I'll get back to PS soon. :flowers:
-
Okay, thank you developers (honenstly). At least this is an improvement. But there is more, suggested by others, more or less). What I would like to see is:
1. a more detailed text for speech of not-introduced characters. The least thing should be something like "an Enkidukai says ..." or even better "a male Enkidukai says...". The best (imho) would be even more real-life. Something like "the Kran right from you says ..." or "the Ynnwin behind you says ...".
2. some kind of "memory" for introduced characters. I know it is impossible to have statistics about how often you talked to someobdy in the main chat upto now, as this can be heard by everybody. But I think it could go like this:
- I choose another player by clicking on him/her
- I just type something in the main chat and, no matter that everybody hears it, the system knows that I talk to the selected player. This way a statistic about how often/how long I talked to a specific player would be possible. And an even improved version of that could include a log about what you was talking about. There's a log anyway, so why not save conversations with specific characters in a specific file, so they could be seen in some way from within the game?
The reason why I ask for this: Too often, I see players saying just "hello" and begin to talk to me as if they know me. I am sure they do, but I don't know wherefrom. It could be that I helped them a year ago or something completely different. So I think such a function would help roleplaying greatly, as you even could refer in your conversation to something that was mentioned sometime before in another one.
-
Everytime I go near anybody or a group of people, there is a flood of "xxx has been introduced to you" messages !
As it stands, it totally defeats the purpose of RP for which it was intended and instead makes it annoying & utterly pointless. :'(
Instead of changing the game mechanics to "force" role play on the players, it should be left to the players to decide/evolve their RPing.
i.e. keep the game with open ended mechanics, RP is left to the individual.
-
Wow, bare people asked for this ages ago, and now everyone has it they all turn around and bitch about it?
Oh noes you can't see everyones name! Shock horror, and extra click!
Come on guys, pull your fingers out eh? I think it's a cool little thing, it actually surprised me, I generally havn't been in game for so long so I loaded into the game and remade my character, did the tutorial and then walked around the new Kran city and I was just running aorund looking at the NPC's when someone introduced themselves to me. It was kinda surprising. but I think it's quite cool. I'm very glad I don't have a hundred thousand names of random people I probably won't talk to floating around.
I really don't understand what some people are annoyed with.
-
Not everyone, Ichaas. Only a little over 50%. With a few more improvements, I think that number will drop. :)
-
ever time i come out of a loading screen witch takes me around 5-15 minutes i get sent atleast 5 introduction
-
Now you're just overreacting. I play this game too, and people don't introduce that much. Most are just apathetically about it.
-
Itll probably be fixed soon enough there has been a lot of discussion of it among all concerned parties.
-
Wow, bare people asked for this ages ago, and now everyone has it they all turn around and bitch about it?
Yes, I seem to recall a few threads about it. Seems to be the way things work around here with the community. It is human nature I guess. Annoying little critters aren't we. :P
I am not to fond of the indroduction. I can live with it though.
-
Wow, bare people asked for this ages ago, and now everyone has it they all turn around and bitch about it?
Well, raising your opinion after being asked isn't bitching. And my nick is Zwenze and not People. I dislike /introduce and here is why:
I played Planeshift with this feature one week, and in that week only one player roleplayed an proper introduction to me. All the others just whacked their introduce short cut and took this as roleplaying. If you ask me this feature doesn't help roleplaying, it hinders it, as people now think all they need to do to introduce is to hammer a shortcut and run around.
People who used the ooc knowledge of the names do this for two reasons.
1. The are no role players and dont want to become one. You cant fix this by coding.
2. The are no role players but want to become one. They have to learn by roleplaying and making mistakes. In the old releases they went to an old player, use the knowledge from the label and name him ny his name and get told thats ooc knowledge and get aware of the fact, that there is ooc knowledge you shouldn't use in your char. Well, thats the way it was. Now both players use /introduce on each other and take it as they are introduced now. That no role playing!
/target Player
/introduce
whohooo, I am a roleplayer :@#\
There are allways people starting to play planeshift that have no idea how to roleplay and have to learn by doing. You can not code it in a way that they cannot make mistakes unless you mute all players and implement a /roleplay command ;)
Having people using the knowledge gained from the labels was slighty annoying - but it was also a chance for them to learn that they have to separate ic and ooc knowledge. Now they will use ooc knowledge in other situations and in the long run /introduce isn't help full at all.
-
Strong point Zwenze.... I'm behind you with everything I've posted earlier.
And I still didnt get 'good' reason why the introductions are benefit to game experience. Or at least no stronger reason then why not to have them. I agree there is something good about it, but still more bad.
/introduce $target
/chat $target
/goodbye $target
...and yeah, I'm missing as well that "How the hack do you know my name?" reactions.
-
<quote>
/target Player
/introduce
whohooo, I am a roleplayer Cursing
</quote>
Or even worse..without any target selection
/introduce
<you have been introduced to all around you> For the love of laanx ?? why ?? :-[ :thumbdown:
I remember as a n00b (and I am still), I was gently introduced to the concept of RP/IC/OCC, IC RP introduction etc by the more experienced players
It worked very well, without having to use a heavy hammer !.
What problem does this /introduce solve ?.
More RP=>No, will just become an excuse to get past the "unknown player" label.
Suppress OCC info=>Yes, but like using a cannon to kill a fly. Is this OCC info so critical that keen RPers cant correct the syntax/info while RPing..??? :o :detective: Lighten up !!
(I may not like your look, so I DONT want YOU to introduce yourself to me) Atleast with real RP, I can tell you to go way nicely, here I am force fed introductions !!
While even I dont like to see the labels on all the players, its stilll a player choice to only show labels on mouse over.
-
It's a little weird to have people come up to you, /introduce, and then . . . run away. And this seems to happen to me a lot - I dunno if I'm just not typing out my "/me smiles, 'Good morning!'" fast enough? It feels like people are just playing Pokemon with /introduce and trying to catch 'em all, rather than using it as a roleplay tool.
-
Or even worse..without any target selection
/introduce
<you have been introduced to all around you> For the love of laanx ?? why ?? :-[ :thumbdown:
/me makes a grand entrance to the room
"Hear ye Hear ye people You are most privileged to be in the presence of the grand adviser of Octarchs: Prolix! (that would be me)"
<You have been introduced to all around you.
It makes sense to me as other people are unimportant but everyone must know my name.
-
Or even worse..without any target selection
/introduce
<you have been introduced to all around you> For the love of laanx ?? why ??
Hmm, I'd say that walking up to someone, saying "Hi, my name is Vornne" and then everybody in hearing range now knows my name, is fairly realistic. As Thom said, it now works when you say your name in chat. Note that nobody is introduced to you if you do that, so there is no way anyone will find out the secret robber in the background's name, unless that person says it.
Still, I'm not a huge fan of the idea, for some of the reasons posted earlier, but don't go over the top in hating it... give it time.
I read something about another MMORPG, that they don't allow forum posts asking for a feature to be removed until a month after it was added, to give people a chance to get used to it... might be a good idea.
I'm not trying to attack anyone, but try see it from another point of view, namely the people doing the coding ;)
-
Well, am now officially back to PS (try to get out a true addict and you'll figure it is impossible :P) and so my first post after a long time will be a statement in this thread.
Lets see, I have not read the whole post, but got some opinions about it from what I read.
As I see it, players have asked for that feature some time ago, the feature got implemented and now everyone is bitching about it. Sorry guys, it is not that easy in my opinion.
The feature itself is new and with everything new - you should already know that - it needs fine tuning, which the devs are doing.
It is meant to encourage RP, not to enforce it, however, it is about us players to make the best out of it,
I am slightly annoyed by everyone introducing to my chars without any RP too, just go to a prominent mine, where everyone hangs around these days and you will get to know a lot of people without them even saying a single word...but whose fault is that? the devs' fault? no! it's our fault. We have to learn how to use this new feature to it's best and I think in time, with some more fine tuning about it (perhaps preventing /introduce without saying the name, so people are kindof enforced to at least tell their names would be helpful - also a yesno box could appear to the target if /introduce is used plainly (to introduce to players you have known for ages already))
Anyways, I think bitching and complaining about a feature is not very helpful for everyone, on the other side we could explain to above mentioned newbies that /introduce is not rp and that they won't see our names when they introduce to us.
Even tho I have yet only noticed the negative sides of this feature, I am still PRO introduce.
PS: hope I didn't step on anyones toes with my words, if so...well, get used to me :)
Cebot
EDIT: i just got told my post sounds like if I'm saying that everyone who is contra about this feature bitches around. thats not intended. As mentioned before, I have not read the whole thread, and from what I've read I get that some people are more attacking each other with words rather than giving a constructive opinion (and from earlier feature implementions I know already that some people actually are bitching :P)
So, if anyone thinks I'm calling them bitching around - I am not!
-
Let say it like this. I loke the idea of introductions. It's a great way to keep track who you know and who you don't know, but I absolutely hate the 300 someone's in main chat and that is when it is working as it should. I mean if in a group there are two people who didn'introduce themselves it's almost impossible to follow who of the two is saying what unless you keep track of the bubbles all the time.
Well sure I'm not the first to say this but felt i should explain why I voted NO. I always used tags as we would faces in RL. Just becuase I don't know the name IC it's strange I can't recognize the person later. Knowing it's not just another someone. Makes random Rp rather frustrating aswell seeing people don't like introducing all the time whenever someone new walks in.
I fell that introductions should be optional and optional for parts. i for example would like the introducions so tht it doesn't effect chat but that it does affect tags. that way things like guild are gone but I can actually keep track who is saying what after the first bubble search.
I still think it's a rather OOC solution for people not behaving IC.
-
I agree. the lots of "someone"'s are kinda confusing, but I think I have seen it somewhere that someone mentioned to replace "someone" with "<gender> <race>". this could perhaps help with the confusing chat a little (except you're in a group of fenkis :P)
Recognizing people by their labels like if you remember the face was actually cool too, I did that as well and many others probably too. Perhaps "someone" could bring up an idea on how to have both, the recognition of known faces and the introduction system?
I still say give this feature some time to develop further, to get used to it and get adjusted so that it'll really encourage rp instead of hindering it
PS: would also be great if the actual names of the chars would be written into the log files, since you are not able to figure out who said what elsewise (like reading the logs a week later you probably won't remember who stood where and said what, but with the names in the logfiles you could remember at least who "someone" was)
-
What adds to the feeling of "being blind" is, that of course not everyone who appears to be familiar to you you know the name of. Given you arent spending most of your ingame-time to read/update description windows, the complete anonymosity took away many features of persons. Take that one old hoppling man who passes Harnquist with a wave everyday the same time. While before you could recognize him easily by the name-tag, now its just a ghost passing, one that could be anyone.
I also cant see how does this feature emphasizes RP. Before newbie passed by mutely, now they run by hitting the introduce-shortie.
So, my question: Like you have your locally stored list of aliases for your buddylist, isnt same thing possible for custom name-tags? Ultimately the custom names could even show up in another color, say.. orange? With that you could create a custom alias "Hobbling old man".. ;)
-
Hi,
another idea I had is this (if you want to keep introductions as a necessity to know a players name): To "enforce" roleplaying, why don't you just remove the command "/introduce" itself? If one could only introduce himself by saying his/her name, this would enforce even newbies to use some kind of roleplaying to make their name known to someone else.
-
I just went into the only place people seem to roam nowadays.. you got it, the platinum mine. I tried to interact with people, but all I got was a "Who is Someone?" - followed by a "Just asking, because I ignore people I dont recognize" and some more smilie-including replies concerning anonymousity. Whats that?
To me this is one of the newbie-reactions upon this new feature. Instead of at least something one could play with, its going that ooc straight taway? I may understand it to a certain degree: The newbie can not see your name, doesnt know who is he dealing with, so he denies any contact (although some of the people involved were not really newbies (not to mix with "n00bs"), at least not considering their time already being around).
Did anyone say this "feature" is providing or emphasizing more, roleplaying? This is getting tedious..
-
I do not believe I have seen this suggested but here it is: The race-gender thing is ok but it does not go far enough. This should be combined with enhanced player description idea where you have a list of standard categories to be filled in. You would need only two or three Significant Feature fields which would describe readily apparent attributes of your character. Then you could have "the kran with the star-shaped birthmark says..." or "the stonebreaker female in the blue and white leather dress says...." If the fields are left blank you would get "the non-descript Ylian male says...." These fields would appear at the top of your description to aid identification.
-
I do not believe I have seen this suggested but here it is: The race-gender thing is ok but it does not go far enough. This should be combined with enhanced player description idea where you have a list of standard categories to be filled in. You would need only two or three Significant Feature fields which would describe readily apparent attributes of your character. Then you could have "the kran with the star-shaped birthmark says..." or "the stonebreaker female in the blue and white leather dress says...." If the fields are left blank you would get "the non-descript Ylian male says...." These fields would appear at the top of your description to aid identification.
I agree fully, Im just not sure if this would make the chat a bit bothersome when longer (and always the same) 'identification strings' are in front of sentences; especially short ones 'The Kran with the star-shaped birthmark says "Hi"' :P
Just a thought that came to my mind when I read this - in general very good and right - suggestion.
-
:( This is getting really wicked...
..Just put names of characters you dont know in brackets. Solves all issues and doesnt harm any or the 'great' RP features you probably want to achieve.
It removes spam-introducing from noobs and all newbies knows from tutorial that in brackets is OOC info, so they won't use it.
And bracketnames removes nearly all the issues, or even all of them I stated in my post ( dont say they are not important or irelevant ).
By this both sides will be happy and milion clones of someone will disappear finally too.
Or there are any issues with names in brackets I dont see? I'll be happy to hear. ::|
-
I have not read all the post, however but today specifically the /introduce system is EXTREMELY buggy...
I log in..I see peoples name if they do an /introduce to me however they become someone, and then after about 5-10 minutes of being logged in everyone becomes someone.
It makes it VERY hard to RP with a group of "someones' it frustrating to say the least.
I was trying to do a guild event today had 7-9 of us in a small group, I spent most the time confused trying to figure who was saying what or re-logging.
Its not a bad idea fully...I just don't think its helpful when its THIS buggy, it makes me not want to even role play. I can ignore the spam intros and the occossainal re log but this is just too much!
I can live without attacking NPC's for a while, but this not being able to RP just sucks.
-
hmmm names in brackets. That is really a great idea I think. Something you have to come up with but now that I am running it through my mind I think that would be the perfect midway if you want to make sure people notice the introductions without it spawning a whole bucket of someones. Think the bugs have shown just how annoying it gets fast. I think even the ones in favor of introductions think the system should be tweaked atleast.
-
Well, so far I have not found it realistic or helpful at all. In RL how many people do you know that you have NEVER been introduced to? A lot! Anywhere you have people gathering together frequently you have acquaintances being made by repeat association. No intro is needed. But this 'feature' requires an introduction to every player before they are recognised.
And it hampers RP badly. One of my characters likes to sit in the tavern and just listen in to ongoing gossip. He might occasionally introduce himself if a particular RP interests him, but whether or not he does, usually he will know all of the regular tavern crowd's names, simply because of repeat association, and he will be able to track even multiple RP threads going by listening in. This is no longer possible, because everyone in the tavern is now named "someone". Bad enough for my own RP, absolutely kills my ability to track someone else's RP, much less join in.
I would suggest making it an option to the player if they want to use it or not, and to also provide an option of how their introduction is presented. And I think it should be two options, not one; separate inbox and outbox so-to-speak. After all, I may want everyone around to know who I am, but I may not neccesarily want to know all of them. (or vice versa)
In RL I always have options in a crowd. Currently, in PS, I do not, its all or nothing.
-
Hmm, I've also noticed something. When you introduce to some players, they seem to think that you've told them your name, even if you haven't. Like, no one knows who one of my chars is right now, and she can just walk into a tavern, and people will immediately greet her by name.
This introduction system does nothing but hamper roleplay. I haven't seen it help at all yet.
-
How you mean Raa?
If a char (player..?) comes and /introduces to my char, shouldnt he take it as knowing his name?;)
-
Depends if he said his name. You could recognize the other character by appearance, voice, whatever. The introduction message pops up in system, not in main, nor as speech, so you can assume that the other character hasn't said anything. It's just a terribly OOC way to recognize someone.
-
Oh, really? For me it's a green message suddenly floating over my screen.
-
Please cease hostilities :)
The devs do not want to ruin your game ;)
The way I see it, this is an incomplete feature that needs to be rigorously tested and discussed.... calmly. I'm sure a few releases from now everyone will have gotten used to it and it will be a unique RP-enhancing feature that works flawlessly.
Personally, I very much like the concept but it is a bit annoying atm because it is incomplete. I think the 'Someone says:' problem needs to be solved... race is a very clear descriptor as is hair colour/length. Talking animations would also help.
-
I wasnt meaning any hostility Oo
What I wanted to say is, like was said from official side, /introducing means you know names icly. If a noob comes and introduces the rushing and shortie-hitting way it wont make a difference - practically.
Of course, I am making exceptions, like when I notice anyone around my char does know, I will target him and /introduce, since that target did know my char already before. Such action I wont require any direct interaction that moment.
-
I wonder if this has been fixed yet (or made more user friendly) . If it has, can someone explain to me exactly how it works?
-
I would rather spend the time explaining to people about RPing a first meeting than have to suffer this feature, at least I get to meet a new char and help someone on thier way. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE remove this awful introductions thing it is choking my RP.
*edit*
In fact put in a box with chat bubbles and bury it.
-
/me agrees with Eurac's comments.
I do not believe you are alone in your thoughts. Maybe it can be made more user friendly so when I go into game I can actually see you to give you a hug.
Eurac does make a good point. I think the chat bubbles could be ditched also.
-
hmmm the bubbles are a station passed I think but these introductions really are making random RPs annoying. I always like stopping if i see a group of people and see what they are up to and join in with RPs, but the annoyance it is causing now I am noticing I am talking to new people a lot less.
It's an OOC solution that gives OOC annoyance and a solution in my eyes that isn't being a solution at all as I only see people roleplay less becuase of it.
Give people the option to hide their tag unles introduced first. Please edit the chat but pleeeeaaase don't leave it like this
-
hopefully something new.
because of introducing system you have completly no idea who say what.
You don't know where from is the voice coming and the system doesn't recognize different tones. Many people may be screaming out loud and you think it is a single person.
When you hear many of "someone" at the same time, it should be someone, someone else, another one and so on. The more the better. It is unacceptable that 10 people speak and you can't recognize their voice.
And a lot a lot more adjustments.
You need to give players a way of knowing that "another one" is that Kran standing in front of you and not the dermorian 10m away. This needs to be fast.
And given the fact how much trouble there is with targetting and mouse operation, delays and visual effects for recognition, I propose devs to withdrawl the /introduce system and fix the other bugs before the system will be tested and developed.
You can fix the other bugs without the /introduce system being in game and when they are fixed, try again with /introduce.
-
I hear many complaints about this system. People have trouble with change and I admit I do also.
What I want to know is how it works, if it does, or does not, if it going to be changed in some way, how? I just want to role play like I used to though now I cannot figure out how.
-
Now I can't even work around it. The introduce button has disappeared when I right click, and typing /introduce does nothing at all. But unfortunately, the side effects are still there, namely someone/unknown. So now I'm wandering about a world full of someones and unknowns, and no way to fix it.
Worse yet, I don't know if its a problem in my settup or what, since for some of my guildmates it seems to be working, while others are having the same problem. So if its not working because the devs removed it, then please remove the someone/unknown as well.
-
I've notice you no longer get a message and if you've intro'ed to them you can't see the icon.
But it does appear to be working, more effectively. You just don't get a message saying you've done anything.
-
um, chat bubbles can be turned off can't they?
if so . . .
shut yer pie holes.
if not we can try to make them optional.
-
as far as i'm aware. the chat bubbles are only able to be turned off if you edit the xml files. didn't hear of an in game option to turn them off yet.
-
as far as i'm aware. the chat bubbles are only able to be turned off if you edit the xml files. didn't hear of an in game option to turn them off yet.
it is in the works :D you will see it soon(tm)
-
I liked introductions at the beginnig, the idea itself seems to be realistic and good. But after playing for some time with it I hate it. It's really annoying to rp with 2-3 people that you dont know. What I see now is for example:
* Somebody hisses "I hate this guy!"
And I dont know who hates the guy! In real I would perhaps not know the person's name, but I would hear who said that. In case of PlaneShift lack of name causes only confusion :(
-
Some devs watching? :/
...I pretty wonder if devs created the topics about it to actually learn something, or just for fun, or just a try to convince players that its a good thing (I hope not)...
Maybe I just missing some feetback.
I gave there more then 10 GOOD reasons why the system doesn't bring good.
And I didnt find there more then 2 GOOD reasons why to keep introdictions. (which will actually stay when you change the system with my idea)
I quess you have pretty much of reasons to remove the system, or at least change it in comfortable way...
(brackets... noone even noticed it? It removes most of the bad results introductions caused and keeps the points with which all others waving around and shouting that it is good thing)
Only 28% players likes it, there is many reasons why is ruins RP and game experience in this topic and decreased RP (another topic) is quite to do with it imho as well...
What more you need to accept that it was a wrong step and change or remove it? Or its like devs can't do a mistake?
Yeah, sure players will get used on it.. but why? One get used on bad smell in a room as well in time. Does it mean he shouldn't try to get the smell out?
Anyway... still a lot of thanks for patiance and effort with PS, devs.
-
I understand the reason for the feature, but the current implementation is flawed beyond usability. I vote for removing it for the time being and reattacking in a later release if it is something that the DEVs REALLY feel they need to have in the game.
-
Yes, the Devs are watching. But in saying 'Get rid of it now' you are discounting both the people who said 'Yes' or those that stated their opinions.
The step is not a wrong step. It is merely a first step. And it is something you personally don't like while others do. The intention is not to make players 'get used to it', but to test the feature and see how it can be improved so everyone can like it.
Also, a lot of the 'No' came from folks who like the idea, but voted no because it is buggy. It has already changed a lot since this thread started.
-
Yes, the Devs are watching.
I'd suggest a little more feedback. Could help maybe. But no hard feelings about it I guess. :)
But in saying 'Get rid of it now' you are discounting both the people who said 'Yes' or those that stated their opinions.
I quess you have pretty much of reasons to remove the system, or at least change it in comfortable way...
I like the idea and point of it a lot, but some pages back you have 10 reasonable (I think) points (outcluding bugs), why the system makes a lot of bad.
The step is not a wrong step. It is merely a first step. And it is something you personally don't like while others do.
Not every step can be in best direction. Developement goes on though and may change the step into better way. And personally, I have nothing to do with the system. I stated just facts about this feature. And I still waiting for the good reason why is this introduction system so great thing. Maybe its something I dont see. X-/
The intention is not to make players 'get used to it', but to test the feature and see how it can be improved so everyone can like it.
I already stated one idea which keeps introduction's good sides and removes most of the bad ones. No response from any dev yet though.
Also, a lot of the 'No' came from folks who like the idea, but voted no because it is buggy. It has already changed a lot since this thread started.
As well there is a lot of yes from people who doesnt think about it properly and doesn't see the introduction's conseruences and effects. :D
But I agree, the system might be nice... someday, Right now, its for me something what discourages RP, makes a lot of confusion and OOCism.
I'd welcome if someone points me to 'good' sides of this system, or proove mine points about it wrong. I like discussing about pros and cons in reasonable way. :detective:
My posts are not that offensive as they looks... :flowers:
-
All I can say is that it is being worked on. If a Dev does not respond, it is because they are all busy working on the game. ;)
-
Greetings!
Well, I think it is a good thing that a stranger is a stranger to you until you have some form of introduction. The problem is, that there aren't many distinctive features in the models to recognise a person again, that you have once met. In the game Illarion, which has the same drawback, this was solved by showing a unique number instead of the name and allowing players to assign "names" to that number. An intruduction would replace the number with the correct name.
So, in principle I like the system but it definitely needs some improvement, e.g. that should be no way to get around the introducton system by placing the mouse point above a person and see his/her/its name.
With kind regards
Kaityra
-
Someone else mentioned the idea of description fields to differentiate characters. I think this is a good idea- I play a MUD every so often that does this. You type in a short description phrase for your character and that's what everybody sees before your sentences and in your emotes. Something like that might be good for PS.
-
Siteri, that's a really curious idea. How long is the field? I'm wondering if it ever gets overwhelming.
-
Siteri, that's a really curious idea. How long is the field? I'm wondering if it ever gets overwhelming.
I've seen this in MUDs as well. Several of them, in fact. How long is the field, usually? Two words, plus an indefinite article that's added automatically, usually in the form adjective noun. "A muscular warrior." "A pudgy herbalist." "An attractive metallurgist." or whatever.
-
I'm thinking that might be a lot of fun to play with.
-
Essential here is that you can make a distinction between different 'strangers' in main chat. Whether it's done by giving different people different text colors, self-chosen labels like: old dwarf or redhaired dwarfette .. or whatever other idea you can come up with, doesn't matter but the confusion needs to be cleared up.
I like the idea. :P
-
Essential here is that you can make a distinction between different 'strangers' in main chat. Whether it's done by giving different people different text colors, self-chosen labels like: old dwarf or redhaired dwarfette .. or whatever other idea you can come up with, doesn't matter but the confusion needs to be cleared up.
I like the idea. :P
Me too, I want to be Vagabond dwarf! xD
In all seriousness, yes I agree with zan's idea, differentiating between strangers is a good idea. true we have descriptions for that reason, but one should be able to tell a difference just from a glance aka, title of strangers "old dwarf, young dwarf", etc etc....
I really like that idea of people choosing (from a selection) what their 'stranger title' is.
-
Some IRC clients have a function where every unique person automatically gets his own colour. Makes chatting with one person easier "in the mass of messages".
-
Someone else mentioned the idea of description fields to differentiate characters. I think this is a good idea- I play a MUD every so often that does this. You type in a short description phrase for your character and that's what everybody sees before your sentences and in your emotes. Something like that might be good for PS.
Its great one.
Although I'm under impression that people should use something simple for these descriptions, not a name, but some kind of appearance, many people will use there their name or pseudo. I think this shouldn't be allowed. I think people can be enough creative to think up something simple about their appearance, though I have no idea how it come out in reality.
IMO, duplicates should be allowed, unlike ow it is with names. Yes, you could see once 5 "stranger"s at once, but if it will be disallowed we will run out very fast of good short descriptions and this will be big annoyance.
At char creation there should probably be a field to enter that 'name' - with an explanation what it is.
And there should be a box to change it while playing at any time.
And GMs will have another bunch of names to moderate.
EDIT: Also about the direction the voice came from:
I think the area around your character should be divided into 4-6 zones, which won't rotate at all, but be binded to the map coods axis.
Each zone would have diferent pastel color and one would see them all uppon holding a key.
Then if we don't want the whole line of text colored differently in the chat (I don't, because i want differet colors only depending from its type [shout, tell, guild... and so on), Then I assume only the name should be colored, or just first letter, or a background color of the line (not supported as for now)?
The color will be accordingdly to the zones colors (which i remind, appear only when holding a key).
-
For the Siteri's idea about some kind of 'little descriptions'..
I think its great idea, I actually had some similar as well, but a little different purpose the recongising characters.
My thought was about those first lines in descriptions people are using as 'actuall state'.
For example when your character is very drunk, or wounded, or has bloody clothes (states which differs pretty often).
That might help to prevent situations when you meet someone, greet him happy and ask how is he and then when you manages to open his description (people are not doing it too often) you find out that he has bloody eyes, wounds and he is barelly alive. Then after calm greeting your character scares, which is funny unrealistic.
So... the though is about smaller window with place for some shorter text (few lines max) which appears for each character after you targets him. Its few kb server trafic and it may help a lot.
The idea here about players using the small description instead of 'someone' is imho a little awkward and abusable... not sure about it.
Then about you making 'notes' to each character.. I'm not sure here either. Its a lot of work for players and again and again it quite spoil the RP mood while having plenty of typing to do just to recognise passing people. (who'd like to write stuff about everyone who is around in tavern, just for a chance he might see him more often, while usually people are diappearing and appearing fast.) Feels like your character will ICly take out notepad and note something about each passing person. I still think that players glance at name is most close to character's glance at face and appearience. Feels most realistic. (and I still feel pitty when you writes a story with badguy who didnt introduced to you and you are unable to differ his actions in you log file, which means ruined story. :'( )
I still think that OOC names are same as OOC info about your skills. You as well know your exact level, its ooc, so I dont see any much trouble knowing other's names OOCly before introducing.
Why is the idea about OOCish names still ignored, nearly even banned? It has some great disadvantage I dont see?
And add to Nikodemus's idea about collors by directions.. um... I feel that would cause more mess then good. 10 collors in one sentence, for directions, different types of message and player will be more then confused from the collor rainbow in his chat window.. But the idea isnt that much of bad acually, but maybe for me a little too much of complicated and unnecessary.
OOC names please!! Brackets! Response please! Ideas? Thoughts? :surrender:
-
And add to Nikodemus's idea about collors by directions.. um... I feel that would cause more mess then good. 10 collors in one sentence, for directions, different types of message and player will be more then confused from the collor rainbow in his chat window.. But the idea isnt that much of bad acually, but maybe for me a little too much of complicated and unnecessary.
Read again ;P
there will be 10 colors if devs would make 10 zones around your character. But i was proposing 4 to 6 max. So you can roughly know where to look for someone saying someting.
Again, color in chat window coresponds to the zone color. max 6, pastel colors, which you can probably set by yourself - all same grey if one wish ;)
+ it doesnt have to be font color, but its background.
PS. I still wonder why devs couldn't take some xhtml, css ibraries or someting for the GUI, but instead create everything from scratch.
No idea how hard it would be, but would make the GUI so much better looking.
-
Well, a while back I made a small mod (http://www.pastebin.ca/979004) to the server and client, to change "Someone says: Hello" to something like: "A red haired male stonebreaker in front of you says: Hello". I showed it to a dev, but he didn't like it, and the dev in charge of changing the introduction system has not been around for a while. So, they might have another better idea planned, I don't know.
This is not my personal favorite solution, but I saw the idea in this thread and coded it for fun... this is only a demo, it would need cleaning up and maybe shifting around to be used, and the trait part will not work without the server change.
Having said that, I like the idea of a player configurable short description :) I just posted this in case anyone else wants to try follow it up, because I've lost interest in it.
-
I do like the base idea of it. However, the way it's implemented renders that idea to be a real pain.
Someone says: Hello
Someone says: Hello there.
Someone says: How are you?
Someone says: Hello there!
Someone says: Greetings to you too.
All of them can't have "exactly the same voice".
One idea would be to change this way too generic somone to: "Female Enkidukai", "Kran", "Male Enkidukai", "Male Ylian", etc..
This would at least make the "voices" distinquishable to some extend. But then again, if there are two or more of the same kind, it's being hard.. but unless you "watch" (listen in real) you'd probably not know who said it anyway (unless they have really distinquishable voices)
Female Enkidukai says: Hello
Male Ylian says: Hello there.
Female Enkidukai says: How are you?
Kran says: Hello there!
Male Ylian says: Greetings to you too.
Another idea (which I like less) is to simply put the name between brackets if they didn't introduce yet.
[Yadili] says: Hello
[Arerano] says: Hello there.
[Yadili] says: How are you?
[Distubu] says: Hello there!
[Arerano] says: Greetings to you too.
But when this system gets changed in a way that "introductions" are still used - just differently, lets say in an useable way, the current data ought to be reset. (So many, I never heard the name of, just used /introduce to "show their name", without ANY IC reason)
A User-defined "short description" or "short name" as suggested by Vornne also game into my mind once.. but I now focused on having "little effort to get at least something useable out of it".
It could be an "extra field" in the char description. Nothing longer than 25 characters maybe. And using existing or banned "char-names" must be forbidden of course. (and to distinguish it from "char names" it could be put between brackets [] in the chatwindow)
-
I do like the base idea of it. However, the way it's implemented renders that idea to be a real pain.
...
Female Enkidukai says: Hello
Male Ylian says: Hello there.
Female Enkidukai says: How are you?
Kran says: Hello there!
Male Ylian says: Greetings to you too.
I'm not totally sure what you were speaking of there, but that is what the patch was planned to do, just need to check only the boxes for race and gender in the options.
I had heard of having the name in brackets too, and that is the idea I thought would probably suit ps best ;)
-
Female Enkidukai says: Hello
Male Ylian says: Hello there.
Female Enkidukai says: How are you?
Kran says: Hello there!
Male Ylian says: Greetings to you too.
We, in real world are all Female Human and Male Human.
...and still, you are able to recognise nearly all voices as different. Right? ???
I think its way better then milion somaone's, but still imho not enough. All Ylians doesnt have same voice, same as all Enkidukais.
And still, there is not a question of only voices, its overall appearience which is playing role in labels.
I still feel about this as about a push, which is forcefull way to make noobs Roleplay. (togeather with some more not really strong reasons.)
Noobs won't ever learn roleplay X-/... And for newbies... they are able to learn to RP without such force. :flowers:
This system only makes it harder to good roleplayers, I'd say.
But the global idea isn't bad, point is nice.... Just like I said, it has some disadvantages, which even actually kills good RP (its always good to have some ooc info, to be able to give best RP) and makes harder times for good playes (and still the storywriting from logs killed :(). The good, which this system brings, is not really effective, from what I know and what I can think off, but maybe can actually provide better IC feeling, which is only reasonable good point I see (still, I personally preffer the feeling that there are individuals around me, and not hunderts 'same' people..).
Is optional way between this two Arerano's ways of displaying labels possible? Everyone will be satisfied then...
Devs (and everyone), please consider ( ^.^ and share thoughts) this option about selectable way of labels view (and in logs... Better always the brackets way, dont kill storywriting *beg* :'(). OOC info for players is nothing bad, and when you says its not, remove all stats, all system tab, all hud, all.... you get the point, right?
:surrender: Miaua
-
based upon presonal creativity or lack there of
as to how people put 7 & 10 together to get the result they yeild
-
based upon presonal creativity or lack there of
as to how people put 7 & 10 together to get the result they yeild
Sorry but I dont see your point and please refrain from reopening 6 month old threads about a topic that is no longer relevant