PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: Shadow1490 on March 23, 2008, 03:58:03 am
-
Firstly if this is in the wrong place I apologize.
Secondly if the blockade in question just dissolved on its own and I'm simply misinformed I apoligize.
But if I was correct why activily remove it in an out of game/RP fashion? If it was an in-game/RP method then I apogize and just stop reading here.
1. It was interesting: It made for a change and gave characters a challenge.
2. It wasn't like a player who didn't want to have anything to do with it couldn't just walk through it.
3. I'm annoyed because my character had just made a plan to try and slip through it.
Alright then and if I was wrong for any reason I once again profusely apologize.
-
Firstly if this is in the wrong place I apologize.
Secondly if the blockade in question just dissolved on its own and I'm simply misinformed I apoligize.
But if I was correct why activily remove it in an out of game/RP fashion? If it was an in-game/RP method then I apogize and just stop reading here.
1. It was interesting: It made for a change and gave characters a challenge.
2. It wasn't like a player who didn't want to have anything to do with it couldn't just walk through it.
3. I'm annoyed because my character had just made a plan to try and slip through it.
Alright then and if I was wrong for any reason I once again profusely apologize.
I think this was an in game RP situation. I was there and it was pretty disorganised, so I went mining instead.
-
to properly understand the validity of the complaint, you must first describe what happened in detail.
-
I would love to have some summary either o/
Considering these screenshots (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=26613.msg367438#msg367438) though, and (unreasonedly) presuming a big part of the people are Outlaws - Did the Outlaws sort of stampede Gugrontid? Had the few guards simply no chance to stand? If so, what will be the consequences? Will the Octarchy generally enforce and increase numbers of guards in towns now? Will the Octarchy take actions to make sure citizens are safe?
=P
(Sorry for being offtopic =x)
-
I would love to have some summary either o/
Considering these screenshots (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=26613.msg367438#msg367438) though, and (unreasonedly) presuming a big part of the people are Outlaws - Did the Outlaws sort of stampede Gugrontid? Had the few guards simply no chance to stand? If so, what will be the consequences? Will the Octarchy generally enforce and increase numbers of guards in towns now? Will the Octarchy take actions to make sure citizens are safe?
=P
(Sorry for being offtopic =x)
From what I know most people where disguised as to keep themselves from being known. Those who were not disguised or able to hide their identies know the consequnces and know they shouldn't be setting foot in the city less they want to be punished with death. The attack was oocly designed to fail and it did so ingame as well so I doubt there would be much care from the octarch but I don't speak for him :P
-
:oops: My apologies about this issue. What I had heard is that the entire thing had been shut down by the GMs which was the complaint. Know of course I've recieved some correcting information. Sorry about this. :oops:
-
The GM's never actually stepped and told us to stop. I got a /tell telling me I should get onto IRC because the talk about it was bad and once I did this and everyone started to blow things outta proportion, we all kinda backed off and stopped everything so that we could sort this out. However I do know a lot of the bandits involved are still out on BD road one pillaging/robbing/charing tolls/and just whatever so do be careful if you walk out there alone ;)
I think we had a few misunderstandings when we started and things kinda fell though on the last minute to me and I really only had the basic idea of what was to go down. I did not realize the Hydlaa Guards would get involved. that was the whole point of taking Gugrontid, and I also was willing to be punished for anything if I got caught by the players, because it was a player event created to have fun and spark role play, (mainly on the BD roads). My only hope is that at least some of you had a tiny bit of fun, I know I had blast up until I got on IRC ;). And yes, I'd do it all over again, The PvP was a bit messed up but I think it will always be like that in big events, we do the best we can, but I do *KNOW* that most of you were dying to use the skills and stats you spend hours and days training up. The good guys WANTED to be able to fight too and defend the city. thats all we wanted here, was to give people a break from mining and training 24/7. So I hope at least one other person had fun. ;)
Also..Izzabella is cunning...she's already figured a way out of her crime...the only thing she committed was kidnapping ( I was WAY to busying in OOC tells and such to do any duels xD and I was trying to get the role play aspect of the event going and not just PvP as well) And only one person that was kidnapped was there against their IC will, the rest were all decoys and just pretending. So don't worry people Izzy's not going anywhere, she's not helping to lead the outlaws cause she's dumb ;) You will see her around still. and I look forward to all the RP this event has sparked.
Oh one more thing..I really like how the Outlaws are getting all the credit for this event..when it was all the *cough* Fallen Kingdom *cough* that set this whole thing up!
/me runs off and hides from Xeonart
-
Oh one more thing..I really like how the Outlaws are getting all the credit for this event..when it was all the *cough* Fallen Kingdom *cough* that set this whole thing up!
/me runs off and hides from Xeonart
'
Shh, your not supposed to tell ;)
-
> Shh, your not supposed to tell ;)
Tell what? You speak as if it were a secret. Izzy only re-confirms what -we- already knew.
@Izzy
Why, why, why is it that most beleive that the defense of Gugrontid was carried out by "good people'?
Good people often dislike the structure and nastyness required to put up such a defense.
We need to have a serious discussion about the difference between:
good vs evil
... and ...
evil vs darkness
@all (officially labelled the Pest Control Brigade)
Kaylain salutes all those, be they evil or good, that challenged the fog of war.
The criminals will be caught.
Also, i'm organizing some group-assist duels (composed of teams of 3 or 5 players each) in order to conduct and succeed at skirmish warfare on a medium scale.
The goal is not to roleplay mass-killings, we have a duty: to protect Yliakum's cities at any cost.
-
I was there at the time of the event, and while i applaud you for your effort in trying to organise a player event on this scale, it was something that i ended up having to walk away from.
My big issue with it, was the mass of ooc shouts. I understand it must take a lot of organising, but /shout'ing bracketed ooc instructions was really quite disruptive to me.
On a side note, i found it imposible to tell who were the good and bad. Missing labels made it more difficult that i imagine it would have been if they had been visible.
-
On a side note, i found it imposible to tell who were the good and bad. Missing labels made it more difficult that i imagine it would have been if they had been visible.
Think about it like it would happen in real life. You walk onto a war scene, for whatever reason, and you see a bunch of people fighting. Not going to be easy to tell who are the 'good' and 'bad' guys. There doesn't have to even be a good or bad team. That would most likely be how the situation would happen in real life so consider how'd you'd rp when that was how it works.
-
yes I know there was problems, we had lots of confusion and I could not get anyone to tell me who was leading the defending side, so I had to shout to get people attention. at one point I was told the good guys were walking away and not doing it cause my guys did not have on auto accept I stooped it to sort this out, there was so much lag for some of them that if they had that on by the time they knew who challenged them they'd be dead, my main thing was just to be sure everyone was accepting duels, I did not want to hear about declining. and it is increadbly hard to please everyone ;)
and oh my gosh! I knew you were still around!!
To be honest guys that part of the RP is over we can't do anything about it, there was a take-over of the kran city, and we were run out and the city was safe again.
Now part two of our plans have already begin, we can't fix how we messed up the take over, we knew and planed on losing. its its all good, and now all we can do is learn from our mistakes and keep going.
I look forward to RPing with you all in game
-
Think about it like it would happen in real life. You walk onto a war scene, for whatever reason, and you see a bunch of people fighting. Not going to be easy to tell who are the 'good' and 'bad' guys. There doesn't have to even be a good or bad team. That would most likely be how the situation would happen in real life so consider how'd you'd rp when that was how it works.
Sorry, i wasn't really having a go at the lack of labels, more really the lack of being able to tell who was who.
How i saw it was that i could see the "bad" guys standing on top of the 2 towers. I could also see a mob below, which i assumed were the friendly mob coming to the rescue. However i found it impossible to tell where the chat was coming from. Seeing a bunch of "someones" trading insults doesn't help the rp. Also it made it very difficult to follow any meaningfull conversation, as all the somenes appear to talk at once, making it impossible to tell who was replying to what.
While it's more realistic than seeing the authors name before the chat comment, it really didn't help in this situation at all. In real life i would very quickly tune to certain voices and be able to to tell who roughly they were coming from, and also i would be able to recognise that voice later on if i heard it again perhaps.
Here's an example from the event, taken from my logs. Slightly edited to remove guildchat, /tells etc.
(21:04:29) Someone says: [yes]
(21:04:36) Someone says: [okies Izzy]
(21:04:37) Someone says: [you will have to find out IC when it starts]
(21:04:37) Someone says: [sorry]
(21:04:38) Someone says: [auto-accept for duels?]
(21:04:44) Someone says: [yes for duels]
((21:04:53) Someone says: [there WILL be fighting eventually]
(21:05:32) Someone says: [do you all have a group?]
(21:05:36) Someone says: There will be fighting when Edath shows up !!!!
(21:05:51) Someone says: oh ... wait .. Edath can't fight
(21:05:54) >Marthron Decksar takes a seat.
(21:05:58) Someone says: nevermind
(21:05:59) >Marthron Decksar stands up.
(21:06:22) Someone says: [if your on the bad side..and you need
an invite tell me xD Izzabella ]
(21:07:47) Someone says: [and thanks to those that introed]
(21:07:51) Someone inoocently asks: what is going on?
(21:07:53) Someone says: [lol who's shaking behind Maulus xD]
(21:07:57) >Mordaan greets Zetsumei.
(21:07:59) Auction from Someone: Buying platinum ore. 1k each. [Muday]
(21:08:43) Someone feels a wet warn liquid travel down one leg
(21:08:45) Someone says: ooer
(21:09:13) >Hulla greets Akashani.
(21:09:49) >Grizzlyus greets Perlan Cernun.
(21:10:07) >Zetsumei greets everyone.
(21:10:40) Someone shouts: [okay people if you're here cause you've here for the event you need to stop acting OOC and do something in town that your char would NORAMLY be doing here...if your on the good side you probaly dont know about what is about to happen!!! so go do something!]
(21:12:19) Someone shouts: [and put auto accept on--and rember you still will have to send a challenge itts not gonan be an open PvP]
(21:14:10) Someone shouts: *yells madly*
(21:14:55) Someone shouts: SO WILL WE SEEK DEMISE BY BORING EACH OTHER TO DEATH??!!
(21:15:21) Someone shouts: [TURN ON AUTO ACCEPT DUEL]
(21:17:50) Someone shouts: alright you miners! drop your picks!
(21:18:00) Someone shouts: this is war!
((21:19:11) Someone shouts: STOP put down your weapons!!!
(21:19:54) Someone shouts: I DONT WANNA DIE!
(21:20:06) Someone shouts: /me screams
(21:20:07) >Zetsumei takes a seat.
(21:20:26) Someone shouts: ahhhhhh
(21:21:02) Someone shouts: i'll give you anything PLEASE!
(21:21:08) Someone shouts: FIGHT!!
(21:21:36) Someone shouts: attention citizins of Gugrontid!!
(21:22:18) Someone shouts: My name is Izzabella and I am taking over this city of stone!
(21:22:41) Someone shouts: get out If you want to live!
(21:22:42) Someone shouts: I have hostages and I am NOT afraid to kill them!
(21:22:52) Someone shouts: GO AHEAD!
(21:22:57) Someone shouts: please!!! stop!!!!
(21:23:03) Someone shouts: I WANT TO LIVE!
(21:23:11) Someone shouts: Don't let me die!!
(21:23:11) Someone shouts: SOMEONE HELP!
(21:23:12) Someone shouts: NEVER!!!
(21:23:21) Someone shouts: I am not afraid to shed innocent life for the gain of my power!
(21:23:32) Someone scratches his head
(21:23:48) Someone shouts: swords for hire...
(21:23:57) Someone says: [looks like this is a waste of time]
(21:23:58) Someone shouts: does anyone want to negotate with me?
(21:23:58) Someone shouts: YOu are only someone
(21:24:06) Someone shouts: PLEASE DON'T KILL US!
(21:24:10) Someone says: ooer
(21:24:38) Someone says: methinks time to leave
this place
(21:24:44) Someone shouts: PLEASE!! DON'T!!!!!!!!!
(21:24:59) Someone shouts: SPARE US!!!
(21:25:01) Someone says: hehe, who is your target?
(21:25:18) Someone shouts: SPARE ME!!!!! I HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG!!!!!!!!
(21:25:21) Someone shouts: Heeelllppp
(21:25:28) Someone shouts: [uhh guy your skipping the RP part of the event..stop fighting yet!}
((21:25:34) Someone shouts: *guys
(21:25:41) Someone says: yup
(21:25:52) Someone rolls his finger at his head and looks at the crowd
(21:25:57) Someone shouts: STOP!! PLEASE!!!!
(21:26:24) Someone shouts: stop it!!
(21:26:28) Someone shouts: does anyone dare to negoate with me? or you hand this city of stone over to me and my gang?
(21:26:55) Someone shouts: charge!
(21:27:18) Someone shouts: stop!
(21:27:27) Someone shouts: MOve and they die!
(21:27:31) Someone shouts: my name is Izzabella and I am going to take over this city!
(21:27:44) Someone shouts: help me someone please,I'm a hostage
(21:27:46) Someone shouts: [stop fighitng! you have this is suposed to start as a RP evetn first!]
(21:27:56) Someone shouts: we have hostages and we are not afraid to kill them!
(21:28:06) Someone says: and who are you to claim it?!
(21:28:11) Someone shouts: I don't care who I have to kill to make you people listen!
(21:28:14) Someone shouts: boring!
(21:28:16) Someone shouts: PLEASE HELP!!!! I've not done anything wrong!!!!!!
(21:41:42) Someone shouts: help me help me help me
I'll skip a bit to near the end...
(21:41:58) Someone shouts: [I dont care if you have auto accept on or whatever but if are you challenged then you MUST accept]
(21:42:42) Someone shouts: [STOP!]
(21:42:50) Someone shouts: [SHUT THE TRUCK UP EVERYONE]
(21:43:12) >Mordaan greets Maanahr Ilde.
(21:43:18) Someone shouts: [wait! stop!]
(21:43:21) >Maanahr Ilde greets Mordaan.
(21:43:26) Someone sighs "i'll be in the bar..."
(21:43:34) Someone says: ditto
(21:43:39) Someone shouts: Screams to her death
(21:44:01) Someone shouts: HOW COULD YOU!?!?!?!????
(21:44:23) Someone shouts: Easy, all I had to do was push her.
((21:44:53) Someone shouts: HOW COULD YOU BE SO CRUEL??????
(21:45:16) Someone shouts: Come on...don't fight...let's leave peaceful life on this world
(21:45:31) Someone shouts: [stop EVENT paused!}
(21:45:38) Someone shouts: leave each other a long
(21:45:51) Someone shouts: [ok]
(21:45:53) Someone shouts: [we have run into a problem and stop!}
(21:46:03) Someone shouts: [Izzy, what is it?]
(21:46:03) Someone shouts: stop
(21:46:05) Someone shouts: [what problem be that?]
(21:46:07) Someone shouts: [lack of realism?]
(21:46:22) Someone shouts: [okay I dont care if you have auto accept on or off..but if challenged you HAVE To accept!!!}
(21:46:37) Someone shouts: [a gm is on]
(21:46:38) Someone shouts: We want peace!!!!!
(21:46:41) Someone shouts: We want peace!!!!!
(21:46:42) Someone shouts: {I can't make everyone do..some are lagging to bad and they need to knwo who is after you]
(21:46:43) Someone shouts: We want peace!!!!!
(21:46:45) Someone shouts: We want peace!!!!!
(21:46:47) Someone shouts: [and why cant i kil ??? whats this crap]
(21:46:49) Someone shouts: {GM's ahve nothing to do with thie event]
(21:46:53) Someone shouts: We want peace!!!!!
(21:46:55) Someone shouts: we what pease
(21:46:59) Someone shouts: We want peace!!!!!
(21:47:03) Someone shouts: we what pease!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(21:47:03) Someone shouts: We want peace!!!!!
(21:47:04) Someone shouts: we what pease!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(21:47:05) Someone shouts: we what pease!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(21:47:06) Someone shouts: We want peace!!!!!
(21:47:08) Someone shouts: We want peace!!!!!
(21:47:10) Someone shouts: we what pease!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(21:47:10) Someone shouts: We want peace!!!!!
(21:47:11) Someone shouts: you said we should have one izzy]
(21:47:13) Someone shouts: We want peace!!!!!
(21:47:19) Someone shouts: KILL THE SPAMMER
(21:47:35) Someone shouts: we what pease!!!
(21:48:48) Someone shouts: [Kaerli STOP!}
(21:48:58) Someone shouts: [a frontal clash of the armies would be more realistic, by the way how did you manage to penetrate the city defenses, you just placed yourself inside an rped a raid?]
(21:49:15) Someone shouts: [PAUSE STOP KILLING!}
(21:49:31) Someone shouts: [I AM OUT OF THIS CRAP]
((21:49:42) Someone shouts: /me waves off and laughs "YOU WILL COME DOWN...AND WHEN YOU DO....."
(21:49:55) Someone shouts: RETREAT!
(21:49:56) Someone shouts: [I'm confused here, everyone needs to accept challenges = ought to be obvious]
(21:50:11) Someone shouts: [shout Kaerli we were PAUSED]
(21:50:16) Someone shouts: RUN!
(21:50:23) Someone shouts: retreat!
(21:51:27) Someone shouts: [i expected a better event. what a waste.]
(21:51:53) Someone shouts: [this sucks grand scale]
(21:52:49) Someone shouts: We want peace!!!
((21:54:04) Someone shouts: We want peace!!!
This log isn't intended to embarrass anyone, it's only as an example of how confusing it can be when your character doesn't know many people. Also i didn't seem to be able to /introduce myself to anyone that day either possible compounding my issues. If anyone (someone ;)) has a problem with their name in this log (I don't think there are many), let me know and i'll remove them.
-
Yes I have said MANY times things went haywire when we were in the city. I had some trouble getting the event started I wanted to ask the leader of the defenders questions and get you guys in a bit OOC group as well but no one would tell me who was leading you all so I could not contact them then they could tell you all in your OOC group, however it did not work that way. so I had to work with what I could.
and all those 'someone ooc shouts were not me! lol
and if you'd stayed around it seemed many more had more fun once the retreat was called and we pulled back..
and yes I agree the someone was pain in the butt xD lucky I had most of you intro'ed on me ;)
anyways can we stop compiling about it already? most of us had fun and the RP that it intended to spark afterwards has been accomplished. We know mistakes where made, we learned a great deal from this trust me.
-
I believe I speak for everyone when I say that I, too, what pease.
-
well at lease we all know now who that someone was ;)
-
That the Someone-problem prevents me from rping even works in the forum... I didn't really read the chatlog :-X
But about the confusion and oocishness (Hmm, I like that word) I think all players just have to bear with it. Even small events are hard to organize and since players are free in their action things rarely go as planned. This is really difficult for those who organize, even more if the participants are impatient or can't wait for some reason.
For the rest I cannot really say much because I wasn't there. Just how much I apppreciate events like that *bows before those who made the event*
Sen
-
Thank you SO much Sen for you nice post. I really appreciate that. Even tho this was in no way my idea, I just ended up taking the fall for it ;)
And I know Paveroch and Xeonart are discssuing how much they can get if they turn in Izzy and make up lies :P
*big hugs for Sen*
-
From what I know most people where disguised as to keep themselves from being known. Those who were not disguised or able to hide their identies know the consequnces and know they shouldn't be setting foot in the city less they want to be punished with death. The attack was oocly designed to fail and it did so ingame as well so I doubt there would be much care from the octarch but I don't speak for him
If the Octarchy wont react on something like this since it is to be taken oocish, so no one is ought to know about that "mess" icly? So it never really happened? lol
Either it took place and the government should make some decisions here for this wont be able to happen again, or it did not take place since it was too occ. And if something big like that really would have happened, then the rulers should move butt;)
Just asking since I wonder if my char will know of it or not when I am able to login next time o/
Still wondering, and one asked for that in ooc brackets ingame lol:
Outlaws strolled into town, put on their disguises and did their ambush? Did they also control no one is going to leave the area for alarming other guards? Was considered that other armies will come and arrest/sentence to death everyone disguised?
All in all.. although I have some certain feeling here: Wasnt it more some pretty much "isolated" event without considering much realism? From what I could read so far I would prefer to chars wont know of that whole (ooc-)mess lol - no offense Izzy, you know I love you=P
-
Well been reading the book on law.
Lets see now. What laws you may have broken.
Lets start with low laws.
XXV. No aggressive spells shall be cast inside of the town unless used in the defense of the town
XXVIII. Kidnapping when not at war is illegal.
XXVIX. Providing false testimony is illegal.
XXXI. Disruption of commerce or farming is illegal.
XXXII. Defacing a temple or place of assembly is punishable by imprisonment. Other vandalism is punishable by fine.
Lets now look at some high lows that may have bee broken.
XXXIII. Murder is a high crime. One shall never move to put another to death. Too many become lost in the Realm of Death. Anyone caught manufacturing or distributing poisons which cause the permanent death shall be cast into the crystal. Anyone who shall murder another, be they infant or elderly, shall face justice determined by the Octarch of the level on which the murder was committed.
XXXV. Fire is a bane to all inhabitants of Yliakum. Anyone caught starting a fire with the intent of destroying property or depriving people of life or property shall be guilty of a high crime.
XXXVII. When the Octarchy is challenged by the pressures of the labyrinth it will be considered treason to try to do harm to anyone else without their consent. This applies to men, women, kran and children.
Would not like to be in there shoes. Would you?
-
Wow, give the bad a chance - we already have too few good bad ones in ps :P
Sorry for :offtopic:
-
lol aslong as its figured more properly ;)
However, that whole thing makes me think of what I was told once, for some reason:
An Outlaw whose name I wont mention told me oocly in tells that he was granted permission to kill some famous evildoer in front of the official Hydlaa Guards. That permission also made him untouchable by the Guards, means they would neither imprison nor punish him, at least he said this was permitted to him by the DE leader Sangwa lol.. Of course in the end he refused to be punished at all.
Either that player had no clue of rping, or his char was fooled badly xD
Point is, I wonder, with all the broken laws, how many players will rp this whole blockade to be ic-ish valid? I doubt every single Outlaw would have escaped unrecognized in a serious rp at all - few maybe but by far not all!
So how are you folks handling it? Fun oocish not affecting rp's at all, or do most people run around rp'ing a huge blockade and robbery in Gugrontid lately, and the Octarchy only watches, leaving the platinum-miners and the entire Kran-town up to their own fate?
-
Hmmm. From the logs I have seen, my complaint would be all the idiots who thought it necessary to shout their idiotic, OOC, rude, and unintelligent opinions that the event sucked and announce that they were leaving (also in shout).
My advise to those morons: Do as I do. If you find yourself in an event you do not like... quietly walk away. Or in your case, that would more likely be: run away with weapons in both hands.
-
Well been reading the book on law.
Lets see now. What laws you may have broken.
Lets start with low laws.
XXV. No aggressive spells shall be cast inside of the town unless used in the defense of the town
XXVIII. Kidnapping when not at war is illegal.
XXVIX. Providing false testimony is illegal.
XXXI. Disruption of commerce or farming is illegal.
XXXII. Defacing a temple or place of assembly is punishable by imprisonment. Other vandalism is punishable by fine.
Lets now look at some high lows that may have bee broken.
XXXIII. Murder is a high crime. One shall never move to put another to death. Too many become lost in the Realm of Death. Anyone caught manufacturing or distributing poisons which cause the permanent death shall be cast into the crystal. Anyone who shall murder another, be they infant or elderly, shall face justice determined by the Octarch of the level on which the murder was committed.
XXXV. Fire is a bane to all inhabitants of Yliakum. Anyone caught starting a fire with the intent of destroying property or depriving people of life or property shall be guilty of a high crime.
XXXVII. When the Octarchy is challenged by the pressures of the labyrinth it will be considered treason to try to do harm to anyone else without their consent. This applies to men, women, kran and children.
Some of those crimes were done by Outlaws. Before the attack, all have been told by Orgonwukh to cloak themselves in order to not be punished for those crimes. If, however, the danger of being caught would arise, the order was to fight to death, because escaping the death realm would be preferred instead of being put to perma-death by the government's executive. Izzabella was an exception since she said her name (which could be a feint by someone else to blame her for a crime she had not done). However, she murdered noone, caused no fire and did no harm to anyone without their consent. Additionally, no witness for the crime of kidnapping has been found yet and hence I see no reason why she should fear any punishment.
Nevertheless, Izzabella is hiding outside town until 'negotiations' ensure there will no witness at all.
In my opinion it is very hard to play the bad guys when even the good guys constantly violate low and high crimes without being punished (for example XXXVIV by entering the stone head caves or XXXVI by droping slags, animal parts and items, see also http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32009.0).
-
:offtopic: Isn't XXXVIV improper nomenclature? Is it meant to be XXXIX i.e. 39?
-
Point is, I wonder, with all the broken laws, how many players will rp this whole blockade to be ic-ish valid? I doubt every single Outlaw would have escaped unrecognized in a serious rp at all - few maybe but by far not all!
Everyone who signed up for the event knew the risks and the laws they could potentially break. A lot of precautions were taken in order to stop people from getting found out. For the most part it worked but there are a few people who have been spending their time outside the city from what I've seen. None of us are trying to break laws and say "Well I don't have to be punished or try to hide." If anyone did do that I'd personally hit them myself :P
Take it like this, you can niether claim that a specific person was revealed nor can you prove they weren't. You'll just have to take their word for it and our word OOCly that we aren't trying to act as if we are immune to laws. Whether you trust or not is up to you.
However, that whole thing makes me think of what I was told once, for some reason:
An Outlaw whose name I wont mention told me oocly in tells that he was granted permission to kill some famous evildoer in front of the official Hydlaa Guards. That permission also made him untouchable by the Guards, means they would neither imprison nor punish him, at least he said this was permitted to him by the DE leader Sangwa lol.. Of course in the end he refused to be punished at all.
Either that player had no clue of rping, or his char was fooled badly xD
I know exactly who your talking about and I can't say I know why he's doing that. Has nothing to do with me or this though, I suppose just leave him in his own imaginary world. :P
-
Wow are you guys seriously going to pull this card?
Are you saying that there are to be no Evil guilds, no PvP because someone might die and if you win then you get perma-death. Oh and devs, don't bother implementing back stab or pick pocketing, cause if we use em we are in big trouble! You can't create a perfect world, the RL governments have been trying that for years and yet people still get away with crime all the time.
I am not saying I did not think about the Otcarcd and settings before I agreed to have Izzy participate in this event, what I did think about was how the hero's and the bad guys could actually use their skills and PvP and RP and have FUN! It was a player event, therefore I was and still am willing to accept any punishment that a player willing to put upon me, we stayed away from hydlaa because it was heavily guarded. If they were all sleeping at the time of the attack, no my fault, I am not going to God mode the NPC's and say they all came running to help. To be honest we KNEW we were to fail and get run out of town..that was the POINT! the idea now is that we are hanging out on the roads, sparking ROLE PLAY ( you know the point of the game) out on the roads and not just in town (which has even been scarce lately as well).
and I am sure there is not ONE of you who has ever been 100% correct with the settings and the laws. so give us a break. we've learned a lot from our mistakes on this event, thats also a good thing you know.
Quote from: Janner on March 25, 2008, 04:42:11 AM
Well been reading the book on law.
Lets see now. What laws you may have broken.
Lets start with low laws.
XXV. No aggressive spells shall be cast inside of the town unless used in the defense of the town {izzy never cast spells she only uses two and usually just heal even at that]
XXVIII. Kidnapping when not at war is illegal. [first off all but one ere decoys, fakes, and the one that I did nap said her char never knew who did it or a name and she's just glad to be alive and safe with her baby and won't press charges because she's a bit too scared and would rather just let it drop...and we had kinda declared war as well yeah :P]
XXVIX. Providing false testimony is illegal. [name one char or person that's never lied...not to mention you have to prove we lied ;)]
XXXI. Disruption of commerce or farming is illegal. [we never said they had to stop mining...just that should give us the ores...and even so we did not take anything from anyone actually]
XXXII. Defacing a temple or place of assembly is punishable by imprisonment. Other vandalism is punishable by fine. [yeah yeah I've done this in the past, again if you get caught ;)]
Lets now look at some high lows that may have bee broken.
XXXIII. Murder is a high crime. One shall never move to put another to death. Too many become lost in the Realm of Death. Anyone caught manufacturing or distributing poisons which cause the permanent death shall be cast into the crystal. Anyone who shall murder another, be they infant or elderly, shall face justice determined by the Octarch of the level on which the murder was committed.
XXXV. Fire is a bane to all inhabitants of Yliakum. Anyone caught starting a fire with the intent of destroying property or depriving people of life or property shall be guilty of a high crime. [how did we start a fire...uhh we did not..]
XXXVII. When the Octarchy is challenged by the pressures of the labyrinth it will be considered treason to try to do harm to anyone else without their consent. This applies to men, women, kran and children. [and we had the consent of all kidnapped..hence why we used fakes..and the one I did not have ic premisson I never harmed her..in fact izzy gave her baby food, did even tie her up. and in theory we had the consent of anyone killed cause they stepped up to defend the city, as we wanted.]
I don't know what you all want me to do now..okay so I messed up, I made a mistake and now you're saying I can never enter Hydlaa again? fine, then but I tell ya its boring and all get out on the roads, I can kill some mobs, when the are pervious but why? I can't get to my trainers. And so after a while of being bored, I'll stop Playing Izzy and just disappear so that the good guys can have their peaceful perfect world and not have to worry about anything or have anything to fear. My bad for trying to put some realism into the game and trying to spark some Roleplay.
So forget this event happened if you'd like I don't care. go back to your digging for platinum and gold 24/7 and your intense power leveling for whatever reason you might need it for. I have leaned my lesson, its too hard to make everyone happy and you can't follow all the rules and play a bad guy at the same time and I don't see how its fair that now after the hours and hours or time I've spent developing Izzabella ( I don't mean her stats...screw them strip them from me wipe I don't give a rats tail about that, yes I worked hard for that but I worked harder on developing WHO she is in hours of role play) you all now seem to want me to delete Izzabella (again). We've thought long and hard of ways to wiggle her out of this, and we've come with good ideas too but it seems this community wants me gone, so they can have peace....However I challenge you: If your char has ever explored the caves inside the stone head on BD road one..you are not allowed to ever enter hydlaa or a town again, you've been bannaised because you committed the crime of entering a burial well and apparently even tho no players saw you we all KNOW an otracarhd was sitting there watching you.
Relax people its an unfinished game, atm all your doing is driving some of the decent role players away. I know in the future there will be more guards and blah blah blah blah but atm we are working with what we have... and again it was a player event we never wanted the GM's to get involved like this. I am more than willing to go to a trial if you players want to set that up---if you can find and catch izzy and organize it well but you have to ROLE PLAY it, because that's what I love about this game and thats what I was trying to create with this event, and its already started to work! I've role played out on the roads these last few days more and seen more people doing it than I have in my entire time playing PS. So yes punish me I am sorry I created Role play in an RPG.
Now I am sorry if I have offended anyone I am bit ticked off myself and probably should not hit the submit button and take a few days to think about it, but oh well my char is already facing perma death why should I care anymore? and it seems nothing anyone has thought up will save me from this, so its stay in the BD roads and hope no otrcahrd or good guy finds her or I'm gone, You know I even had a guild mate that looks like Izzy say she'd turn herself in and say she was Izzy for me, that really touched me, but I can't let her pay for my mistakes, not to mention I'd still have the name Izzabella and so even if she said she was me and was put to death for it , it just would not work.
But you know what..even if you all say I can never enter hydlaa again: fine, I won't let you run me off that easy, I am not going anywhere. I love this game, the community and the devs, the GM's all of you. I WILL stay in BD roads and role play my heart out and I will bring my guild events to me (we've done several small scale ones in the past few months and have more panned) I even had 'good' guys coming out yesterday to check on Izzy and make sure she was okay and ask about her son and try to make her behave from now on, they believe in forgiveness and that people can change. and maybe if someone makes enough good points to Izzy she will change, if anyone gives her that chance.
I guess that's about all I have to say..oh wait, one more thing @ Velh buddy..you are safe [in here] but you just wait till Izzy finds you in game ;)
-
Planeshift discussions about these sorts of things always make me think about the three blind men and the elephant.
-
Wow never expected this many replies. :sweatdrop:
For the sake of RP DOWN WITH THE PLATINUM MINE! (Or at least surround it with aggressive Ulbernauts)
-
Hmm, looks like 2 weeks out and I've lost interesting things around. ::|
(Or at least surround it with aggressive Ulbernauts)
NO, It would be a danger for the gugrontid population! :o Well I think the kran living on it, will kick those ulbers out of there as fast as we got 2 platinum ores. Doesn't interest for the village, the caravans come from that pass.....
I think that mine will start to have much less the platinum that was before, until the mine.. you know..... goodbye platinum :devil: then, the platinum fever will be almost gone and we will have the good old gold fever, until someone finds a new platinum mine.........
-
Wow are you guys seriously going to pull this card?
Are you saying that there are to be no Evil guilds, no PvP because someone might die and if you win then you get perma-death. Oh and devs, don't bother implementing back stab or pick pocketing, cause if we use em we are in big trouble! You can't create a perfect world, the RL governments have been trying that for years and yet people still get away with crime all the time.
Okay, I am dumb. I've been playing an evil char for over a year until now the book of law hit me with suprise. But I said 'Hey, this is a part of the game and the laws are the most important thing, an Outlaw should know about.' So we started discussing the laws with our guild members (The Outlaws that is :P ). I think we can put more life into this game by including the laws, but please:
Can we do this slowly? If we now say that everyone who ever broke a law in PS should be punished for it now, I think 95% of all chars would have to be deleted (I include Orgonwukh, here to. And It hink the Outlaws guild would be completely erased, too.). Noone really cared a lot until now. People fight inside Hydlaa daily, for example. I do not say that we can ignore this, but could we change our common way of roleplay step by step and not all of a sudden? Maybe some announcements in game or on the city message boards?
There are still a number of things unclear to me. And hit me if I should know that, because I play PS since so long, but I have no clue about these points at all:
- Who is the judge?
- Is there a court?
- Is there a jury?
- Has a suspect an advocate?
- Who is the executive?
- What punisments are given for breaking laws that don't specify the punishment (some say only that it is illegal)?
- What age is the threshold between child and adult?
- Is banishment forever? If not, how is the time period determined?
- Where do you report crimes?
- What is necessary to sentence somone? Does 'in dubio pro reo' count?
I think a 'witch hunt' on everyone who might have broken a law in the past is destructive and will make evil chars disappear. Can we turn this into a constructive discussion?
-
Wow are you guys seriously going to pull this card?
Are you saying that there are to be no Evil guilds, no PvP because someone might die and if you win then you get perma-death. Oh and devs, don't bother implementing back stab or pick pocketing, cause if we use em we are in big trouble! You can't create a perfect world, the RL governments have been trying that for
WHO ? I see no GM post in hear.
I also read a load of ooc [] in that posted log, so not very role play. [First thing for a ragtag group is to do just that, to stop this]
I also see not everyone was having fun.
1 Lesson I hope you have learnt from this, is if the one responsible for this can not be there to run it, postpone it.
2 Group before even thinking of starting, and lay down ground rules.
3 You broke some high laws, expect there to be a not so pleasant outcome. [So now role play within the setting]
4 GMs do not get involved in player events.
-
Wow are you guys seriously going to pull this card?
Are you saying that there are to be no Evil guilds, no PvP because someone might die and if you win then you get perma-death. Oh and devs, don't bother implementing back stab or pick pocketing, cause if we use em we are in big trouble! You can't create a perfect world, the RL governments have been trying that for
WHO ? I see no GM post in hear.
I also read a load of ooc [] in that posted log, so not very role play. [First thing for a ragtag group is to do just that, to stop this]
I also see not everyone was having fun.
1 Lesson I hope you have learnt from this, is if the one responsible for this can not be there to run it, postpone it.
2 Group before even thinking of starting, and lay down ground rules.
3 You broke some high laws, expect there to be a not so pleasant outcome. [So now role play within the setting]
4 GMs do not get involved in player events.
1. TOO many were involved and moved RL stuff around to be here for event and would have been disappointed.
2. We had a group and I had the bad guys on the same page in our ooc group, I kept sending tell and asking several people to start a good ooc group and tell me who was the leader so I could communicate. my only other option was ooc shouting. and yes I am sorry, it was uncalled for and I should have just gone with it, won't happen again.
3. I AM hiding out and RPing with the settings, I've not set foot in the city even tho no one will turn in izzy for her kidnapping.
4. Then please stop telling me if I go to hdylaa you'll log in and perma kill my char with a NPC guard.
Serisouly now, people had fun! get over it. I am sorry if not everyone had fun, YES I know we made mistakes, and we've learned a lot, sorry if we did know everything to know to being with. And after logging in I've gotten SO many OOC requests to help other good guys by ambushing their events and giving their good guys something to defend and fight for. I am sorry to those people but I just don't think I am going to be doing anymore events for awhile because I don't wish to go against the settings and their creation of a perfect crime free wold.
besdies it seems according to this thread no one had fun. so why bother to RP anymore. Like I said just go back to grinding mobs, and digging ore.
-
I'm with Izzabella on this. But y'all need to stop bickering like little girls. It's already happened, so stop complaining.
-
I believe we get the clue and this deserves to be locked..... Its going to end in a total flame war, and why focus on her why not investigate the other ring leaders besides Izzabella?
Either way there is no such thing as Utopian Society.
-
/me smiles soflty
Thanks.
-
besdies it seems according to this thread no one had fun. so why bother to RP anymore. Like I said just go back to grinding mobs, and digging ore.
Izzy stop looking at this thread before you get mad and actually start encouraging this :P
I also see not everyone was having fun.
1 Lesson I hope you have learnt from this, is if the one responsible for this can not be there to run it, postpone it.
2 Group before even thinking of starting, and lay down ground rules.
3 You broke some high laws, expect there to be a not so pleasant outcome. [So now role play within the setting]
4 GMs do not get involved in player events.
I understand where your coming from but I believe someone before mentioned a piece of advice I believe everyone should take. No one forces you to rp, no one was forced to be apart of the event. You don't like it then leave. Don't hang around and make it harder for everyone else to rp because you have a pissy attitude. What I think didn't help this event is that so many people went there to cause trouble for those running it by not being cooperative.
1. I asked Izzy to continue the event anyways. I had major problems IRL so I couldn't come but we had it set and a lot of people moved things out of the way so they could come. I wouldn't want to have them all do that for nothing. Even if I were there I think things would have ended up the same. It was a lack of cooperation, not a bad event or bad people running it.
2. There were ground rules that we layed days ago. Sadly two things messed it up. Lack of cooperation and the fact that from what I heard many of the people there showed up OOCly. I already had a good idea on who would most likely show. From what I heard a lot of people decided to come for kicks.
3. As mentioned many a time before and as I've said over and over again in this thread we know. When finding people to help me take care of this event I specifically told everyone that we were risking perma death for our characters if things didn't go right. We were planned to lose anyways, it was only perma death/punishment we were trying to avoid, ICly might I add. Izzy's attempts to avoid that fate are IC as are any attempts from any of our characters. The fact that everyone seems to think they have the right to OOC complain about IC actions I feel ridiculous. Izzy, as does everyone else, knows that if she gets caught there will be severe punishment. Those I know of who took part in the event have been sitting around in the road areas for the past few days. I've been with them so I know this for a fact.
Now, I think this topic has been discussed to death and in my opinion no one is going to be satisfied no matter what we say. The same points have been mentioned over and over agaisnt us. While I don't believe that I should have to repeat myself at least once on each page it seems that is what's going to happen if this conversation continues :P
-
Any event that aims big has a big chance of a) upsetting those who didn't think of it or find themselves bothered by RP when they're trying to level up; b) bringing up the discussion about the limits of what should be allowed for players to do (like taking over cities that are supposed to have guards or inhabitants who would defend it); and c) getting swamped in OOC spam in the process. You did your best and you learned from it. Don't get discouraged if things didn't go as planned or if you're getting a whole lot of negative feedback. It's bound to happen, even when things go great. What you need to do is take in as much as you can and not take it personally. Most of the posts were constructive, even if they pointed out the flaws.
So chill. Nobody's getting their char deleted because of this. What happens IC has nothing to do with OOC punishments and I know those behind this RP are being consequent with their IC actions. And I wouldn't expect anything less from them.
-
Since I kinda started this on IRC I guess I better have my say.
First at no time have I nor any of the other GM's said we are going to log in and start killing (perma-death) the ring leaders
This all started because I pointed out that if you are going to have some fun and play an evil/unlawful Char then you also have to be prepared for the obverse, the Octarchs Decree has been out there for ages with the penalties for infringement in plain sight.
Therefore if playing an evil char that tried to take over a town, killing its guards one shouldn't expect to be able to wander around as if nothing had happened. Several people have mentioned "ahh but we were all cloaked so no one will know who we were" in combat there is no way you could fight wearing a hooded cloak it would destroy your peripheral vision and you be a sitting duck for anyone behind you, not only that but a hood will not stay up during vigorous combat.
Now if everyone could leave Izzy alone, she may have been running it but it was planned by others and there were a considerable number of other players involved.
-
/me coughs sneaks in and mentions :
[19:07] <GM> News to me, starts cleaning guard uniform.
anyways guys just move on...get in game and ROLE PLAY!
Thanks for all those who've stuck up for me. And said nice things to me elsewhere as well, and I'm not at saying Izzy was in the right or getting away Scott free ;)
And I've also been defending the GM's to all I to as well..I think we all just need to calm down relax and enjoy the game. and go Role play :P
-
I have to agree, stop the bickering. Start being constructive.
In any event, the attack on Gugrontid was a test from which much was learnt.
That means we have work to do.
I'ld really enjoy the RP and strategies that combat groups would bring to the game.
I suspect that it is not in the Octarch's interest to punish blindly those who ignored the laws of Yliakum.
At least thats how my character views it.
There should be punishment, however, and those that contributed to the raid should also suffer.
If law was applied to the letter in this unfortunate event, then raids might occur more often (bannished and isolatited barbarians on the loose). [ Oh my! i just called Izzy a Barbarian! ]
@Mordraugion
you are right on the button: You can't fight cloaked.
Lets have fun.
-
This is not a utopia, it is a "Totalitarian Regime" death, death, death!
what order there is in Yliakum was established and is maintained through harsh laws and punishments.
In the modern era order is maintained largely through memory of the harshness of the government (which has laws for the mutual protection of all citizens) but while this is true, the Octachy is NOT above making examples of people.
Remember good old Fertedian Dalko?
That said, let this one drop folks, poop happens, people learn.
-
I agree with Xillix and several others that you should forget it, and stop arguing about the laws, and who broke them, and why they don't work, and who killed who, and why everyone hates the bad guys, and BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. Honestly, I don't give a sh-HOO-t about it anymore, all I want is for us to SHUSH, LEARN, and TRY AGAIN. (Later, that is, because I'm not up for this again X-/) I have seen countless other events go the way of this one, and the only thing that has changed afterwards is the fact that less and less people are RPing, and more and more are playing the game to level up and then uninstall. And WHY do you think this is? It's because every time someone messes up an event they get the BAN card, or the N00B card, or a topic on these forums specifically dedicated to FLAMING them. Well I have to say I'm tired of it, and I'm also losing my direction with this post, and I'm beginning to forget where I was going in the first place....
So please just hush and go roleplay, and yell at me in PMs. >:(
-
One thing that really disturbs me about these player run events is that every time it doesn't work out there is a long thread usually crabbing about how the event sucked and one person is targeted with the negitive feed back about the event. Izzabella has said over and over how she realises that there were mistakes and some things could have been handled differently. Not only that but she wasn't the only one to hold this event. So lets keep that in mind before we target poor Izzabella with all of our frustrations.
Another thing I would personally like to see is people in this community problem solving the issues that come up time and time with these events. This isn't the first time this has happened. So ask yourselves this ....... and if you have an answer post it.
(1) What can we do better in these events to distribute information to new players that may join the event that might be well under way?
(2) How can we get rid of the confusion that seems to accompany these events?
(3) What should and should not be done with the event? (killing gaurds, etc) Note: Might be best to figure this out before throwing the event.
(4) Are the events we are encouraging within the settings and realistic?
(5) What is the best form of communication for this event?
(6) What are the rules that should be followed in this event? (Would be a good idea to post them a week before the event if possible)
(7) Who is in charge of the event? (If there are several people in charge then it would be best to communicate their positions in the event and what they are in charge of. Having everyone doing the same job may cause confusion and conflict if it is not agreed on before the event, thus making the event look poorly planned)
(8.) If the event doesn't go well what could I as a player suggest that might help?
(9) Ask players, Gm's, and Dev's questions about the event you are thinking of throwing and voice any concerns you may have that might arise from your player made event. Find out if this event is something the community would be interested in? Or if they even agree with it? (This way you will be prepared for negitive feedback and it will probably help the maker of the event take it better.)
(10) Use the information and sources that provide information about the PlaneShift world. (PlaneShifts main website, etc.) Will this information help my event run better?
(11) Is this event player friendly?
So on and so on....
If you guys want to have successful events, we as a community need to step up to the plate and start making it happen and stop blaming others. It isn't easy running huge events. I have spoken with many of players in this community that have run huge events and they find it exhausting to make them happen, even a little intimidating. (couldn't guess why that is? ::) There are always going to be better ways that you see that would make the event better. Start voicing them!
-
One thing I think this all points out, perhaps a bit obscurely, is that there has to be some way to bypass those cities where one is not welcome. Are the octarchs of one mind or do they compete with each other? Are all towns slavishly loyal or do some hide stuff from the local detachment of octarchal troops? It seems likely that most anything can be bought for the right price in the right hands including a blind eye for a moment or two.
-
Okies last point then I'm going to lock this if you have anything valid to add pm me
[19:07] <GM> News to me, starts cleaning guard uniform.
seems to me to be an attempt at humour not an "I'm logging in now to ban your a**e" statement
-
I have always admired the passion of the family that plays Planeshift. The arguments here in the forums are very entertaining to say the least.
Yet this situation has greatly bothered me. As a role player I was glad to see the someone had the guts to make a grand role play event, especially now when the game is so hard to play with introduction system being so quirky.
In the traditional PS way there was much to do over it. Arguing over it, taking sides, and just voicing all your opinions. I think we have something to learn here from Zorbels. She gave us ideas of how to improve an event like this rather then complain about it. Let us learn from that.
Now to address one other point of personal interest to me; Izzabella. To be fair she is my friend. I care very deeply for her and thank her for all the time she has been there for me when I needed her. As far as I am concerned, she should be applauded for doing this event. I am sure it was not easy. Knowing her as I do she just wanted everyone to have fun. Instead of berating her I think we should thank her for trying to do something that she wanted all of you to enjoy.
To conclude I wish to thank Zorbels for her wise post here and I hope everyone understands what she is trying to tell us. Mostly I want to say to Izzie that I think you are a wonderful person. You again show how you put yourself second to others and how much you care. Izzabella I am honored to be your friend. You did a great job here and I for one admire your role play abilities. You might be one of the greatest role players that PS has ever had. Keep up the good work. Thank you.
-
merged topics, and will unlock, as I don't see this thread having cause for locking just yet, and I'm interested to see responses for zorby's post, as i think it will do good to have those thoughts discussed and worked out and learned from for when future events are being planned.
life is one big learning experience. what doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger, so to say. :)
-
Well, I was not involved in the event but here are my ideas about this:
Having events like that is important for an interesting experience with the game.
They should be organized appropriateley and with the help of officials. This would inlcude sombody playing NPC guards, creating chars (and possibly building stats) just for the event of which some get punished and are not used for a while afterwards. If they were specifically made and the stats were set directly for the event (no month of leveling) then it wouldn't be a problem to let them disappear again. Just like creating monsters, only that they are controlled by persons.
I don't know exactly, but I think this is tecnically already possible. I mean there are already events, but for such big events one problem might be, that we don't have enough GM or trustworthy people to steer these created bandit chars.
Doing these events with a char you invested quite some time and then trying to play with it as a main char afterwards is difficult. Yes, you have outlaws in real life, but the really bad ones normally get caught after some time.
This is no real complaint about Izzy or something, rather how I would like big events like that to be handled eventually. You can't just do things like as player events because NPCs etc. have to be ACTIVELY involved.
-
Thanks Leama. that was sweet, and I am far from the best role player PS has ever had :P
Zorbels thanks for your positive post as well, you make several good points.
Okay first off The GM's don't have time to get involved every time a player decided to start a big event... and they can't pick and choose who's to get involved with because that's favoritisms. This was a player event designed to spark RP and get the players involved in the punishment, and I am not going anywhere near any guards anytime soon, I am not stupid ;)
Secondly flame me, I don't care, I am not going anywhere ;) and if I Have to take the fall for this and move into the roads so that the rest of the people involved can continue to play and enjoy the game, so be it.
-
Good post Zorbels. As usual, you make a very good point. Ok, I'll try to answer some of your questions (I had little to add or comment on the ones not quoted since your suggestions are pretty clear).
(1) What can we do better in these events to distribute information to new players that may join the event that might be well under way?
One thing I can think of for an event like this is to have people from both sides involved (the ones raiding the city and the ones defending it). Guild communication is a useful tool and posting a teaser thread in the in-game forums is a good way to catch the community's attention and post some ground rules.
(2) How can we get rid of the confusion that seems to accompany these events?
Whatever the situation, keep the main tab clean of OOC at all costs. Groupchat does wonders for this but also try to keep that channel clean as well. I've noticed some players like to chat while they RP making IC and OCC entries as the event progresses. There's nothing wrong with that (since mostly they do keep those OOC entries private or bracketed) but it can be confusing if you are managing a really big crowd with players joining in at different times. If the group was made for OOC coordinations, it's better to keep idle chatter away from it and even have a shortcut for the instructions. This means, planning is the most important thing to minimize chaos.
(3) What should and should not be done with the event? (killing gaurds, etc) Note: Might be best to figure this out before throwing the event.
Do not godmod. Do not assume that there is no government or no law because there is no way yet for them to react to player actions. Do not force other players into your RP. Do not write the whole script. Leave open ended scenarios so that there can bring surprises and players can actually feel that what they do is what defines the outcome (as it should be). People are not joining in to watch a movie or a play, but to get involved and affect the situation one way or another. Since that is a possibility, set your objectives so the outcomes do not end up being godmoddish (like, in the event that the raid on Gugrontid had succeeded, the city would have been lost and all players would have to RP that... which is obviously taking it too far). I know you intended to leave the city from the beginning, but you still gotta plan for a prize for the raiders should they win (maybe not taking over the city but stealing a stash of weapons or something kept in the city). Finally, always ask (a GM or a settings team member) if what you're planning to do might go against settings or game policies.
(5) What is the best form of communication for this event?
Forum thread. Allows preparation, feedback, summaries, etc. Many players do not check the forums and events are a good way to direct them here. There is valuable information here that all players should be aware of. And for those who do not like forums or forum communities, you can always only read or post in the sections of your interest.
(6) What are the rules that should be followed in this event? (Would be a good idea to post them a week before the event if possible)
Set them up. Test them. Correct them. Communicate them. Think about how players can join, how the event is supposed to affect them and what kind of reactions you expect from them. Give them options to react in a way that suits their character's personality/history and make it easy for them to learn the ground rules for PvP and RP (such as if they are supposed to RP traps have set around, etc.). The rules you set up have to allow the event to unfold naturally, that is making it possible for any side to win so nobody feels they joined the losing side. Have a rehearsal, spot potential problems and plan ahead.
(7) Who is in charge of the event? (If there are several people in charge then it would be best to communicate their positions in the event and what they are in charge of. Having everyone doing the same job may cause confusion and conflict if it is not agreed on before the event, thus making the event look poorly planned)
For an event like this, someone in charge of the raiders, someone in charge of the defenders and who takes over in case of absence. Always be aware of who's the current group leader. Make sure the first to join the group are those who are behind the event so that if the leader crashes, the next player in line has an idea what to do and how to handle the invites.
Finally, GMs do not get involved with the execution of any player events but we can certainly give our point of view since running events is one of the things we're here for. PMs, or a visit to #planeshift-gmtalk on IRC will do. And when it comes to plots, the settings team has the final word on what players should be allowed to RP.
-
I would like to point out that we did do this. Duraza talked to Xillix first and asked if this was passable and our catch was we had to lose and be run out of town. which we did.
-
Secondly flame me, I don't care, I am not going anywhere ;) and if I Have to take the fall for this and move into the roads so that the rest of the people involved can continue to play and enjoy the game, so be it.
I'll remove any flamey posts made, soooo that isn't an option, publicly at least.
i unlocked the thread for people to make constructive posts :)
-
3 You broke some high laws, expect there to be a not so pleasant outcome. [So now role play within the setting]
4 GMs do not get involved in player events.
Okay, this is why I asked this:
- Who is the judge?
- Is there a court?
- Is there a jury?
- Has a suspect an advocate?
- Who is the executive?
- What punisments are given for breaking laws that don't specify the punishment (some say only that it is illegal)?
- What age is the threshold between child and adult?
- Is banishment forever? If not, how is the time period determined?
- Where do you report crimes?
- What is necessary to sentence somone? Does 'in dubio pro reo' count?
For the sake of realism, a short sketch of how a criminal is punished in RL (feel free to correct me for deviances in RL and PS):
1. A person commits a crime.
2. Someone observes the person committing a crime (not necessarily recognising the person's identity).
3. Someone reports the crime (and maybe a person) to the executive.
4. The executive identifies and probably imprisons (not necessarily the correct) suspects.
5. The executive starts investigating the crime and collects (not necessarily all) evidence.
6. When enough evidence is gathered, the executive gives all evidence to the judiciary.
7. The judiciary decides if the suspect is guilty by looking at the evidence.
8. The suspect is convicted if the evidence is sufficient.
9. If the suspect is found guilty, the suspect is punished.
How do we roleplay this? In the case of Izzabella, she roleplayed it without steps 3. to 8. and finally punished herself for the crime by banishment (because it is a low law she broke, stop speaking about pearma-death, btw).
I think noone can expect this kind of roleplay from us. No player would break a high law anymore, because you instantly would have to delete your char.
And I repeat: I don't want to complain. I expect some answers from GMs and settings team, because we Outlaws leader really want and have to know how to roleplay the consequences of crime.
-
(1) What can we do better in these events to distribute information to new players that may join the event that might be well under way?
One thing I can think of for an event like this is to have people from both sides involved (the ones raiding the city and the ones defending it). Guild communication is a useful tool and posting a teaser thread in the in-game forums is a good way to catch the community's attention and post some ground rules.
this somehow made me think of a old war rp we had back in the days that worked pretty much the whole time :)
here's a link to it if anyone want to look or want to remember the "good" old days ;)
maybe it can even be used as a guide in the future.
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=26159.0
-
Yes Elvi but I'm learning you can't stat a war, the Otchard would have stopped that.
But yes it looks like it was well planned out in advance, I think we did not post anything here cause we wanted to keep it as IC as possible and did not want people showing up OOC'ly as they did. I had chars standing around in a huge group saying lets flight! but they had NO ic reason to be there seeing as nothing had started IC'ly ;) However I do know some were there because they were told IC'y something was going to go down..but those one were waiting around quietly for something to happen first before they took action.
-
Raa, see this: http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/funny-pictures-fighting-cats-constructive-feedback.jpg
-
- Who is the judge?
- Is there a court?
- Is there a jury?
- Has a suspect an advocate?
- Who is the executive?
- What punisments are given for breaking laws that don't specify the punishment (some say only that it is illegal)?
- What age is the threshold between child and adult?
- Is banishment forever? If not, how is the time period determined?
- Where do you report crimes?
- What is necessary to sentence somone? Does 'in dubio pro reo' count?
From the Ortarchal Decree:
Hand of the Law
I.
When issues of legal contention arise it shall fall upon the guards or the nearest military office to settle such disputes. When the dispute requires justice, such as disagreements over land, possessions, or other serious issues, they shall fall under the jurisdiction of the Vigesimi.
II.
The execution of these laws is to be handled by the authority of the Vigesimi in charge of each town or region. The Octarch of each level shall be the final arbiter of justice for his or her sovereign lands. Preservation of the Octarchy means the preservation of all living sentient beings under its reign. The Octarchal decree shall be followed by all who wish shelter within Octarchal borders.
This doesn't answer all your questions but remember that despite their importance, the settings team has a LOT to do and some things have to be done first. Your questions at this point would get the same answer as asking "How does alchemy work?" or "How do I use the backstabbing skill?". They are all valid but the answer is that it may be a while before they are implemented in-game. And don't think there's no interest in it, it's just that there are priorities, and they are set in part based on what the community wants. Remember this poll? (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=30659.0)
Nobody will have to delete their character if they didn't break any game rules, and even if they did, it would have to be an extreme case to take such harsh action. Breaking IC laws is meaningless when it comes to enforcing game policies. It's only RP and we encourage it. We would never punish you for roleplaying properly.
So yes, there are gaps in the settings and lots of things to do before the game is complete. That's not new. My advice is try to work your plots around those gaps and use whatever info is already available, using common sense and specific queries to settings or GMs to fill in the rest. We might not be able to answer ALL your questions but maybe put some thought into little bits you can nibble on while the rest is cooking. Just be patient.
-
First, I want to state that despite all the problems with this event, I had a blast! I seldom see anything in-game that can keep more than 3-4 people at a time occupied for more than a few minutes, so this was quite entertaining, kinda like the carnival coming to town. Whether it worked "correctly" or not, I would hope that there are in the future other attempts to involve people on this scale. Practice makes perfect.
On to the constructive...
(1) What can we do better in these events to distribute information to new players that may join the event that might be well under way?
(5) What is the best form of communication for this event?
These two go hand in hand IMO. My RP background is largely based in real-time, spontaneously evolving events (I do renfairs where maybe five of us are coordinating 20-30 passer-bys) and getting the story disseminated to newcomers on the fly is critical. I think the chats are the best way, because it allows a chain of command; i.e. the event originators are using say guild chat, but each guildie forms a group of non-guildies and clues them through group chat. If the group gets too large, divide and form a new one, with group leader being up to speed and in touch with other group leaders. Newcomers dropping by can be quickly incorporated and brought up to speed (and if they don't like what they see, they are free to leave). Most importantly, it keeps all the workings out of main.
Unfortunately, the current situation with introductions and unknown/someones makes this difficult.
(2) How can we get rid of the confusion that seems to accompany these events?
Keeping all the workings out of main... main should reflect what is happening ICly, since that is your progress bar... when main gets full of gibberish, confusion is the only possible outcome.
(7) Who is in charge of the event? (If there are several people in charge then it would be best to communicate their positions in the event and what they are in charge of. Having everyone doing the same job may cause confusion and conflict if it is not agreed on before the event, thus making the event look poorly planned)
This is where the chain of command has to be laid out before the event starts. And someone will HAVE to volunteer to take the probably less fun parts of leading the groups. They will likely miss some of the action because of this, but if you don't have someone doing it your event will likely disintegrate quickly.
And as you probably note, none of these work without PLANNING. Think out all the likely outcomes, diversions, sabotage (yes, people will deliberately try to be jerks just because they like being disruptive), etc, and have your responses planned out as well. You will never think of everything, but every bump that is negotiated smoothly leaves you more freedom to focus on the ones you didn't forsee, and deal with them on the fly.
*edit*
Ok, got interrupted before...
So to tie what I said above to the gurgontid event;
chain of command - this event was top heavy (not critisizing, just observing). There were, as near as I could tell, only about three people trying to direct everything. As a primary organizer and also a central figure in the RP, Izzy had far too much on her plate that could have been delegated... When we do a renfair event, even though there might be 5-6 of us conducting the action, to an observer only a couple of us are visible. The rest are making sure the RP keeps moving, dealing with hecklers, organizing (inciting?) the crowd, directing traffic, etc, all while blending into the background. When the RPers have to do it all, the pace gets slowed and the even starts to break down. Ideally it should be more like, Izzy works out a general outline of how her side of the event is to unfold with an assistant, then she just plays her part while the assistant, through chat, directs the (evil) gang as needed. Likewise for her (good) counterpart. That way the main window shows a consistent progression of the storyline, so everyone knows what is going on, and they can refer to their group window for more specific instructions as the event unfolds.
I think lack of that coordination was a big issue here, because it was impossible to tell from main what was happening. Even those who knew in advance about it were confused, and those who just came along without prior knowledge were completely lost. I even at one point tried to form a group with several who came along so I could clue them in, but without something in main I could point to for reference, it fell apart quickly.
I was pleasantly surprised by the number of passer-bys who really wanted to join in (and not just the handful who were simply looking for a PVPfest), so I think it was a good idea, but it got too big and lost control. Nothing that couldn't be fixed with a little more planning and organisation.
-
It's a tough call. You want to attract as many people as possible so they don't feel they've been left out. One of the most frustrating parts of events is it seems like it's mostly luck...you just have to be in the right place at the right time...which I rarely seem to be. :P I was happy I heard "something" was going to happen so I could finally get in on something. But the down side is, when you have that many people expecting something, a lot will jump the gun. You are always going to have your share of hecklers, spammers, and wisecrackers. I just don't think there's any way around that, unless you have a GM muting everyone. I think the suggestion that was made of going and doing something as if people just happened to be in town was a good one. That's all that could have been done. Whether or not they listened is another story.
Even if it had it's share of problems and maybe didn't work as well as planned, I applaud the attempt. Yes, it's always better to have an event overseen/run by GMs but players should be able to do this on their own too.
Yes Elvi but I'm learning you can't stat a war, the Otchard would have stopped that.
But yes it looks like it was well planned out in advance, I think we did not post anything here cause we wanted to keep it as IC as possible and did not want people showing up OOC'ly as they did. I had chars standing around in a huge group saying lets flight! but they had NO ic reason to be there seeing as nothing had started IC'ly ;) However I do know some were there because they were told IC'y something was going to go down..but those one were waiting around quietly for something to happen first before they took action.
-
This doesn't answer all your questions but remember that despite their importance, the settings team has a LOT to do and some things have to be done first. Your questions at this point would get the same answer as asking "How does alchemy work?" or "How do I use the backstabbing skill?". They are all valid but the answer is that it may be a while before they are implemented in-game. And don't think there's no interest in it, it's just that there are priorities, and they are set in part based on what the community wants.
Thanks for your reply. You are right, I still miss a lot of answers, but now we know at least that you are working on it. Keep going :thumbup:
Nobody will have to delete their character if they didn't break any game rules, and even if they did, it would have to be an extreme case to take such harsh action. Breaking IC laws is meaningless when it comes to enforcing game policies. It's only RP and we encourage it. We would never punish you for roleplaying properly.
Finally a clear statement we can rely on :)
So yes, there are gaps in the settings and lots of things to do before the game is complete. That's not new. My advice is try to work your plots around those gaps and use whatever info is already available, using common sense and specific queries to settings or GMs to fill in the rest. We might not be able to answer ALL your questions but maybe put some thought into little bits you can nibble on while the rest is cooking. Just be patient.
I just started nibbling here :P
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=25642.msg368038#msg368038
-
(2) How can we get rid of the confusion that seems to accompany these events?
I think many issues can be solved by using 'event guilds'. In case of 'good' vs 'bad' guys, those two groups can be represented by two guilds which can be created for the event (in the case of the Gugrontid take over, it could have been 'Thugs' versus 'Gugrontid Defenders', for example). Anyone who wants to take part in the player event can join the corresponding side. The two groups can be organised by two group leaders, including muting people who annoy with spamming or even kicking them if they are just nuisiances and no support for the event. Fighting, too, is easier, because it is simply done by starting a guild war. No more auto-accept problems and 'who challenges who' problems. If it is required to sort things out, the guild war can be interrupted and all the fighting would stop immediately. It would also be helpful to make the guilds public, so everyone is able to recognise an enemy instantly.
The only drawbacks I see at the moment:
- participants who are already in a guild have to arrange the comebackto their guilds (when the event is over)
- communication is only possible within the guild, so an overall group with the two guild is still necessary