PlaneShift

Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: SovHed on April 15, 2008, 05:31:33 am

Title: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: SovHed on April 15, 2008, 05:31:33 am
(http://www.ad-sl.com/files/guildhall.jpg)
[OOCly] we should like to inform you all of the following: Yes the Elemental Light guildhall was cleaned out by a force of The Thieves of Yliakum and The Outlaws. We would like to thank all involved for taking part in this wonderful theft, which yielded a great number of lovely swords, sets of armor, helmets, plants, food, cabinets, closets, shelves, boxes, boots and the list goes on for quite a way.

Thank you all once again and we hope to see you all very soon in game.

I myself am back in Planeshift and am now back leading the ToY.

On the same note: I personally feel sorry for those who got robbed by us, you indeed have my sympathy, however leaving a guildhall unlocked and unattended with a few million trias of stuff is never a great idea.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed
Post by: Izzabella on April 15, 2008, 05:34:53 am
/me smiles and takes a bow then smacks Sov "you're lucky there is no way to pin this on us IC'ly or I'd come kick your butt, and you know I can do that" :P
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed
Post by: Velh Krome on April 15, 2008, 05:38:25 am
Quote
great number of lovely swords, sets of armor, helmets, plants, food, cabinets, closets, shelves, boxes, boots and the list goes on for quite a way.
While I have to say I share the sympathy for the victims.... WOOT! great strike! \\o// Keep it going, rogues!
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed
Post by: Izzabella on April 15, 2008, 05:40:58 am
Oh yeah.. not to mention the tiny fact that I heard you only get like 8 guild house keys...perhaps you should give them to responsible people that know how to re-lock the door...that was a once in a life time thing for us.. again thanks, I know my guild had a blast.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed
Post by: Sihien on April 15, 2008, 06:07:53 am
What EL does know IC has not been revealed. There has been evidence beyond this :whistling:


Sihien Sigir ---- Ulber Tamer  Elemental Light


Those known to be involved will be dealt with at a time of our choosing. This is regarded as an IC admission of guilt.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed
Post by: SovHed on April 15, 2008, 06:26:03 am
Well I'm glad you think you have something :) In the meanwhile I hope you enjoy my tapestry :)

~ EL: This is not IC. As I stated this is OOC. So please don't confuse the 2
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed
Post by: Izzabella on April 15, 2008, 06:28:00 am
well you have to find it, us and prove it.

and this post is strictly OOC and you can't take it IC and use it for evidence...

to be honest the only evidence you'd have it was anyone would be the book someone left but he did not sign it and the dec that says who did it is kinda ooc same as 'this item is guarded by' :P
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed
Post by: Maulus Octir on April 15, 2008, 06:28:38 am
What EL does know IC has not been revealed. There has been evidence beyond this :whistling:


Sihien Sigir ---- Ulber Tamer  Elemental Light


Those known to be involved will be dealt with at a time of our choosing. This is regarded as an IC admission of guilt.

No.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Velh Krome on April 15, 2008, 06:37:33 am
Wasnt there a little piece of Izzy's shirt missing - perhaps ripped off in that guildhouse while doing the break? And what about that bum that often sits around there in a close corner, drinking - may he have noticed anything that night? :detective:
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Maulus Octir on April 15, 2008, 06:43:27 am
/me pulls out his fingerprint dusting kit  :D
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Prolix on April 15, 2008, 07:26:54 am
Hmm doesn't one of the Ways theoretically include scribing magic? did any of you thieves think to cast any obscuring magic? You may not have gotten clean away as you think! By the way, how did you dispose of your loot? The fact that it disappears tracelessly when sold to an NPC is kind of OOC, don't you think?
Such a large job rarely goes unnoticed.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Izzabella on April 15, 2008, 07:37:25 am
Hmm doesn't one of the Ways theoretically include scribing magic? did any of you thieves think to cast any obscuring magic? You may not have gotten clean away as you think! By the way, how did you dispose of your loot? The fact that it disappears tracelessly when sold to an NPC is kind of OOC, don't you think?
Such a large job rarely goes unnoticed.

Sorry I'm not a magic user--your gonna have to explain that more scribing magic? ;)

And we are not totally stupid..its not like one person went and sold off all the stuff.. most of it we laundered or are storing for latter use.  Not to mention more than one NPC will buy the items..you think we sold it all to the same one ;)
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Prolix on April 15, 2008, 07:43:16 am
Scribing magic: think crystal ball that lets you see the past the present or the future, location spells that allow you to find lost or hidden objects or whatnot. :)

Not to mention that gods know everything and sometimes help their followers through their priesthood.

Kind of sounds like a good story for some GM or two to interfere in ... create some kind RP event with uncertain results.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Izzabella on April 15, 2008, 08:05:52 am
Well that spell is not yet implemented..and if you ask me thats just god-modding :P

and no, GM's don't interfere with player events, they'd be swapped with requests and accused of favoritisms .
I told you posting this was a bad idea sov...

I've sent the EL a solution this and am waiting a reply.

What we did was purely IC as thieves and outlaws we noticed a house was unlocked... we snuck in took what we could and ran off, no one saw us. We got away clean. Trepor dung happens, live and learn, lock your guild houses, there are chars that are not all that honest ;)
Besides apparently EL was not using all that stuff anyways..it was all over the place..we put most of it to good use, thanks for the donations. And like I said before from what I understand only 8 people can get a key..so you better give them to people you can trust. ;)
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Prolix on April 15, 2008, 08:24:39 am
Hey, I am completely uninvolved. I am just posting stuff on the forums. The only guild any of my characters ever joined was the Fuzzy Buzzards, or something like that. Heck, I haven't even been in game for a week or two. Going around crowing about your successes in an OOC manner could be seen as poor sportsmanship or whatever.

Not that I care overmuch.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Sihien on April 15, 2008, 08:40:07 am
Well that spell is not yet implemented..and if you ask me thats just god-modding :P

and no, GM's don't interfere with player events, they'd be swapped with requests and accused of favoritisms .
I told you posting this was a bad idea sov...

I've sent the EL a solution this and am waiting a reply.

What we did was purely IC as thieves and outlaws we noticed a house was unlocked... we snuck in took what we could and ran off, no one saw us. We got away clean. Trepor dung happens, live and learn, lock your guild houses, there are chars that are not all that honest ;)
Besides apparently EL was not using all that stuff anyways..it was all over the place..we put most of it to good use, thanks for the donations. And like I said before from what I understand only 8 people can get a key..so you better give them to people you can trust. ;)



We have more than 8 keys. More can be requested. So few keys isn't practical with a large guild. Our reply to your "solution" will come soon.... You are correct in that it was a bad idea to brag about this in the forum.  bad sov   :whistling:
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Velh Krome on April 15, 2008, 01:49:40 pm
While I agree, showing off like this, saying "its all OOC and you cant get us anyway" might not have been the smartest way, and perhaps some intentionally left vague evidence might have been better since roleplayong could have continued seamlessly, I dont like it as much to see now OOC knowledge taken as reasons for roleplaying to know about the burglars.

Okay, other threads use narrated form, Sov here used an image. Other people post played out stories, be it a manic dermorian who thinks he could conquer all Yliakum, or the cutest couple of all Yliakum got married, Sov told about a successful break! When I first read this initial post, I mostly took it encouraging for nasty chars in PS indeed have a chance, despite people may not think so, due to (still) lacking mechanics of pickpocketing etc.
I hope the thieves will come away with their loot!

/me gets dragged into a dark corner in a misty alley and gets handed a sack full of trias by a cloaked figure with a fenki tail sticking out under her cloak
xD
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: citizen on April 15, 2008, 01:59:23 pm

/me gets dragged into a dark corner in a misty alley and gets handed a sack full of trias by a cloaked figure with a fenki tail sticking out under her cloak
xD

In later news, he was found together with that fenki, who was killed with his guts :)
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Mordraugion on April 15, 2008, 02:19:41 pm
Going around crowing about your successes in an OOC manner could be seen as poor sportsmanship or whatever.
Have to say for pure RP purposes a well written post in the IG roleplay section would have been more fitting
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Earl_Listbard on April 15, 2008, 02:40:32 pm
May this thread serve as a warning to all who own a guild hall.


Lock thine doors!
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: SovHed on April 15, 2008, 03:16:09 pm
Scribing magic: think crystal ball that lets you see the past the present or the future, location spells that allow you to find lost or hidden objects or whatnot. :)

Not to mention that gods know everything and sometimes help their followers through their priesthood.

Kind of sounds like a good story for some GM or two to interfere in ... create some kind RP event with uncertain results.

So by scribing magic you mean... know everything that has ever happened everywhere anytime.. that sounds totally non-god-modding.... not.

So let's drop that before I get irritated with all this again.

I'm sorry I didn't write a boring 240 page novel describing every facet of my life leading up to this event. I will make sure I do in future, this was just meant to be a lighthearted, "we did it, good on ya for not crying to your mum" kinda thing... But obviously people didn't take it as such.

Quote
bad sov

Quite.. there was much discussion before releasing this and I'm personally now disapointed.

Also while we're on the topic of godmodding my gods would smite down anyone who even dares accuse us, because im a priest you know.... jeez get a grip..
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Velh Krome on April 15, 2008, 03:35:08 pm
Hm.. I think theres not really a need for going sarcastic, since there are not really reasons to be disappointed at all. Of course the victims now complain, since they actually cant strike back icly. They surely will try, with more or less valid approaches, and I think its quite natural, after all they were fooled. You didnt expect to post this and have everyone, including the victims to cheer, did you? If so, think twice next time, otherwise just face it.

Quote
boring 240 page novel describing every facet of my life leading up to this event
You pretty much got it: I personally, for one, am not interested at all to read over 200 pages about a boring life (or 200 boring pages about a life.. take it as you wish=P) - a few lines describing an exciting break would have done;)
(lol of course kidding, Sov.. I just couldnt resist :flowers:)

If I may be appearing to be on the burglars side, then its due to the simple fact, that I like how they made use of mechanics icly, while the victims, instead of simply making proper use of it, now go and shout for even more mechanics. Think about it: Having your suggested marking on each item, will the next step be to implement one more instance that requires any prove of being the righteous owner every time you want to use it (like for instance every time sending a request to the stated crafter..)?
Get over it, folks, mechanics will never protect you from committing mistakes, if you wont make use of it.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: SovHed on April 15, 2008, 03:48:13 pm
Thanks Velh

The book thing, I could never do, nor would I have the heart to subject you to my horrible writings for more than a page :P

No I didn't expect many people to cheer, I really should have expected crying and calling for protection from gods, i forgot thats just a part of PS Rp :)

I'm happy again now. :p

Also, ready for any IC / OOC mixup people can throw at me :)
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Izzabella on April 15, 2008, 03:52:18 pm

/me gets dragged into a dark corner in a misty alley and gets handed a sack full of trias by a cloaked figure with a fenki tail sticking out under her cloak
xD

In later news, he was found together with that fenki, who was killed with his guts :)

/me coughs "hey! stop god-modding me!  just cause that's something I *would* do!"

More or less we posted this OOC'ly as a warning to other guilds, make sure you door is locked. And ToY is back in town, badder than ever.
No matter how many keys you get, you should only give them to people you trust and as a key holder you have a responsibility to lock up after yourself. ;)

And honestly I don't feel that bad for you..I mean you *did* have millions of tria to buy a house with anyways :P and you still have that ;) And really aside from the crafted weapons (not many above a 150q mind you) over all I think we got away with about 150k-- oh no a day for you guild at the mines, I think by the end your guild has leaned a
valuable mistake.

Oh and don't pick on just Sov, there was about 8 of us or so involved even though technally he made me do, I was too chicken he begged :P So don't rip him apart for wanting to warn other guilds he's back and prowling the streets of Hydlaa once again. ;) /me gives Sov a big hug "welcome back buddy, don't let them get ya down'
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: SerqFeht on April 15, 2008, 04:02:49 pm
I can imagine better places to drop loot  ;)

All in all, I thought this was a good lesson. I feel kind of bad for the Elementals for losing so much, but the door wasn't locked. I hope they don't become childish and have a witch hunt for the person that left the door unlocked. If so, I feel bad for the absent minded member...

+1 for evil!
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Velh Krome on April 15, 2008, 04:05:48 pm
/me adds 1 to SerqFeht for giving intruiging ideas
 ;D
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Donari Tyndale on April 15, 2008, 04:06:26 pm
This thread is in the wrong part of the forum :P. It is good to see that there are still thieves, but let's look at it from an IC point of view. How did the the robbers transport their loot away? In their inventory, apparently. Do you think it is realistic that thieves drag tons of loot from a guildhouse without anyone noticing? I don't really like neglecting the presence of NPCs, as if they were not there. I bet the thieves went in, took the stuff, and went away. If it was well roleplayed, I am ready to be convinced otherwise.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Izzabella on April 15, 2008, 04:07:53 pm
uhh yeah we never went to one NPC till we were done and outta there for sure. we did make several trips. trips to other players or locations :P
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Dajoji on April 15, 2008, 05:01:10 pm
I don't think the ToY and the Outlaws had the plan to just get away with it and rub it in the EL's faces... I don't think this was a pwnage move but a "let's see what they do now" one. So, I hope the thieves have thought of some IC clues for the EL guys to follow (after all, the perfect crime does not exist) so that RP can happen around this and they have a chance to recover their valuables. Maybe they all wore gloves but maybe they didn't notice that drunk guy in the dark alley who saw them taking away the stuff and would be willing to speak for a fresh pint of ale. Or maybe they couldn't help themselves and vandalized the hall with a "The thieves and the outlaws was here!!!" message. Hehe...

:detective:
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Izzabella on April 15, 2008, 05:07:35 pm
Actually be honest we watched out backs. We had people in east hydlaa on the look out for anyone and it was pretty empty aside from us. face it..we covered our tracks IC..

Sov and are not leaders of evil theft guilds because we dunno how to RP... ;)
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Zan on April 15, 2008, 05:25:56 pm
Without reading anything but the first post ... two things to consider.

Did you guys know that there have been bugs reported that unlocked guildhouse doors automatically? Criminals be careful about committing crimes without OOC approval. The  game does not support stealing at the moment, in fact it tries to prevent any possibility of doing so, so your actions can be seen as grieving.

Secondly, a huge bust like this always draws attention and some of you should get caught. If you all get away with it, it's bordering very closely to godmodding from a roleplaying perspective.

Keep in mind, this is a game. A game should be fun for everyone involved ... that guideline comes before the one that tells you to stay in-character.  ;)

Personally I think you all went overboard and clearly didn't do this to make a point. You reacted like true outlaws/thieves. Saw an oppertunity and went for it. The making a point is a nice excuse afterwards. You guys would have made a point by stealing just a few things and throwing everything else upside down. Unless you plan on giving the Elemental Light a chance to recover most of their goods .. then I'm wrong here. :P
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Prolix on April 15, 2008, 05:37:43 pm
Just a note here. The type of magic I referred to is more properly called scrying, not scribing. It is extremely common in magic based fantasy literature and table top rpg's. It is likely to be too difficult to implement properly in a computer game so you probably won't see an "Eyes of Laanx" glyph, for example, in the game. That said one should take particular note of this description of blue way:
Quote from: http://www.planeshift.it/guide/en/guide-magic.html#guide-magic-ways-blue
Equally inestimable are the divination spells that can provide very useful information on the past, present and future.
and plan your actions accordingly. It is theoretically possible within the settings and if you can role play unimplemented thieving actions in the game -- say picking pockets -- you should also be able to role play unimplemented magic actions. Although my example is not perfect as picking pockets is known to be in the plan and such a spell is less certain. Other ways to get the information magically would be to kidnap minor thieves and interrogate them under a truth type spell.

I am mentioning all this, as much as anything else, because it should not be news to thief organizations and they should consider whatever precautions will be necessary when plotting their capers. Magic changes everything and if you do not consider it you will be less effective.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Izzabella on April 15, 2008, 05:55:45 pm
Yes Zan your right, we godmodded because they left it unlocked and unattended. and no I've been told that EL has been complaining about their noobs leaving it unlocked ;P Its not my fault that no one else was in east hydlaa at the time eaither.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: SovHed on April 15, 2008, 06:04:23 pm
Did you guys know that there have been bugs reported that unlocked guildhouse doors automatically? Criminals be careful about committing crimes without OOC approval. The  game does not support stealing at the moment, in fact it tries to prevent any possibility of doing so, so your actions can be seen as grieving.

Secondly, a huge bust like this always draws attention and some of you should get caught. If you all get away with it, it's bordering very closely to godmodding from a roleplaying perspective.

Keep in mind, this is a game. A game should be fun for everyone involved ... that guideline comes before the one that tells you to stay in-character.  ;)

Personally I think you all went overboard and clearly didn't do this to make a point. You reacted like true outlaws/thieves. Saw an oppertunity and went for it. The making a point is a nice excuse afterwards. You guys would have made a point by stealing just a few things and throwing everything else upside down. Unless you plan on giving the Elemental Light a chance to recover most of their goods .. then I'm wrong here. :P

Quite a large mis-assumption there..
Firstly:
It was not a bug, it was left unlocked, unluckily for them a keyholder wasn't very reliable.

Secondly:
It may draw attention however if theres no one there except the owners who return hours later, its quite unlikely anyone is caught.. applies to RL as well. UNless theres CCTV which im pretty sure there isn't.

Thirdly:
It was highly fun for everyone involved, those who got robbed were not involved as they weren't there, which was actually not our fault as it would be rather foolish to stick about till they did arrive....

Fourthly:

Why steal 1 sword and call it a victory when you can steal the whole hall and call it victory. Ok they lost everything in there, I don't see a thief in RL say.. Ohh well I could steal this TV AND this PC but that wouldnt be fair so ill only take the monitor.. :P I don't at least..

Prolix: as for that magic. It seems that with that nothing could possibly ever be hidden so if indeed that spell was implemented all actions against the law in game would be impossible to commit without death ensuing. hence why I think that can be considered incorrect.

Thanks for listening  :)
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Prolix on April 15, 2008, 06:51:12 pm
Just as in the world of espionage there is counter-espionage tactics, in a world of magic there is counter-magic. If you have no mages in your ranks, or on hire, then indeed you have no protection from mages.

Of course I have made no mention as to the mechanics of the spells as there is much diversity in literature and games. I have merely mentioned the possibility in the broadest most general terms. It is not for me to specify how the setting envisions these abilities though clearly they have contemplated them. I will say that traditionally such abilities have ranges from obscure hard to read portents to crystal clear tv like images and counter measures have ranged from non-existent, just have to know what you are looking for, to extremely effective, have to be more powerful mage to penetrate. Also there is the further consideration as to what toll, physical and mental, the magic takes on the practitioner, from wake up in the morning with a slight headache to three weeks bed rest needed per casting or in some cases even death. And then there are the possible dangers of the magic including possible detection of the scrying attempt resulting in a long distance wizards duel through the magical connection.

The last thing I'll say in this post is that you concluding it cannot happen is just as much god modding as my saying it might be possible, more so because you make definitive claims and mine are conditional. I suggest you ask for clarification from the dev team as you are intimately concerned with cloaking your actions.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Izzabella on April 15, 2008, 06:56:55 pm
The outlaws have mages. I may not be one myself but we do have some, in high ranks even.

how about you Sov? any of your guys know magic? ;)
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Earl_Listbard on April 15, 2008, 07:06:36 pm
The outlaws have mages. I may not be one myself but we do have some, in high ranks even.

how about you Sov? any of your guys know magic? ;)

Thats classified.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: SovHed on April 15, 2008, 07:20:17 pm
I'd say we have a fair few.. I myself am rather skilled..
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Sen on April 15, 2008, 08:44:02 pm
Hmm... I usually don't like people don't read the whole thread and comment but Im going to do just this...

This is indeed a nice contrast to boredom in ps. But to be honest I think such a thing should be agreed before in ooc manner in general at least. Apart from I wonder how you carry all the things out of the house of a well known guild without being seen ic imho it would be better to speak with the victims to not scare them off oocly - because the game should be fun for _all_ players.

Apart from that... *cough* I hope not more start to use this forum as place for commercial advertizing ;)

Sen
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Zan on April 15, 2008, 08:51:43 pm
Izzy, the stealing part isn't godmodding .. the "assuming you aren't noticed, carrying a pile of stolen goods through a busy city and then selling those goods" part is what I call godmodding. :D I also have a very hard time believing that not a single player passed through east hydlaa during that whole time you guys were there. Even if it's true, NPCs are also witnesses as pointed out by others before me.


Sov, I didn't assume a bug was involved here. I merely asked a question to make you all think about the possibility. If you already had before I asked the question, good for you!

Secondly, even if there is nobody there: Picking up and moving large quantities of goods makes a lot of noise. A lot of noise raises suspicion. Shady looking people walking around with a ton of goods raise suspicion .. especially in medieval times. Shady looking people selling loads of equipment raise a lot of suspicion. Large stashes of equipment, with specific crafter marks on them can be tracked. Honest or wimpy NPC merchants will tell on you when the guards ask questions. I'm willing to bet that most characters involved are known to hang out a lot on the 'wrong side of town'. All this helps lead to the almost-fact that you aren't just going to get away with it.

Thirdly, when things from someone are being taken, that someone is involved. It doesn't matter if they were online at that time or not. They're involved.

Fourthly, thank you for making my point! You did it to steal, not to teach someone a lesson.

It saddens me that you fail to see my point but maybe that's my fault so I'll say it very simple.

Keep things fun, even when you're evil! If you know for certain that people will be pissed, then don't do what you're about to do.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Velh Krome on April 15, 2008, 09:09:14 pm
Considering the current situation, why not offering the EL a fair chance, by maybe offering any fictive evidence you burglar guys are meant to have dropped there accidentally?
Could be a fair gesture, and a chance for some interesting plot to come, hm?;)
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Sen on April 15, 2008, 09:19:26 pm
I very much agree to Zan here (now read all posts ;) )

Now to the minor points: people watching your backs was a good point, but how did you forward the information about someone coming? Shouting? Suddenly start to run?
Furthermore, the door being unlocked doesn't mean nobody is supposed to be in the guildhouse icly (and of course not for being welcome to do what you want ooc!)... there are more points in that direction, but well... to sum up this whole action can hardly be taken as icly without having you spoken to at least the victims before about some circumstances.

I try to not say more because I was one who complained about too little bad characters in ps. But I think this is not the best example, sorry to some of people involved and whom I like and respect very much.

Sen

*edit* To add at least one point _for_ the robbers: That the door was unlocked could be a point for you - not to do as you wish but when speaking to EL ;)
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Caarrie on April 15, 2008, 09:26:13 pm
Just one more example of a reason why you discuss things like this ooc before you do them ic, Lets say EL Tamers have decided that they really hate the outlaws and the theives that robbed them, they had ic determined that they did the dead, they found a Bounty Hunter to go and kill off the people that robbed them. This being that it was not agreed upon ooc means that EL wants all chars involved in this to face perma death and not to play anymore. There is no way anyone can force something like this on anyone else without the ooc agreement made in advance. I wish that people would plan rps like this ooc first and make sure all involved know what is going on and everyone agrees to how it should be done, there would not be a thread this long if all of this was done before hand, also EL would not have had to involve the gms in the matter or anyone outside these guilds.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: SovHed on April 15, 2008, 10:10:59 pm
Hmm... I usually don't like people don't read the whole thread and comment but Im going to do just this...

This is indeed a nice contrast to boredom in ps. But to be honest I think such a thing should be agreed before in ooc manner in general at least. Apart from I wonder how you carry all the things out of the house of a well known guild without being seen ic imho it would be better to speak with the victims to not scare them off oocly - because the game should be fun for _all_ players.

Apart from that... *cough* I hope not more start to use this forum as place for commercial advertizing ;)

Sen

Ok so saying that we should plan it first... So we are meant to say to EL. "Hi, we'd like to rob your guildhall for everything you have, when would be a good time to do it, when you have lots of guards around to make it nice and fair?"

Forgive me if you think i'm stupid... but I think thats pretty stupid :p

People don't even agree to be robbed for 1 circle. How in the hell are thieves meant to survive if we can't do somthing on the spurr of the moment without OOCly asking. in advance.... Thats just stupid. Ok if we killed someone yeah we'd probably arrange that with the person.

Also permadeath is not even an option so please no talk on that.

As far as we are concerned the EL still have no evidence against us at all and until they have that I'd appreciate them not chasing us OOCly or insulting/referencing our RL & OOC lives in game.

Thank you

[PS: Sorry if my sig offends you. If it is against the rules then you are welcome to ask me to change it, I will do. The mirror is hosted by my company, which is part of me, and thus I think it is related to myself. Not IC of course :p]
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Izzabella on April 15, 2008, 10:11:36 pm
first off there was NO ONE in the sector NO ONE Saw us.. we looked around.. not our fault thats not god modding that no one was there.

they left it unlocked. their fault we did IC what we would do IC

And no Caarie you other players can't make us perma dead for a RP.
epically with NO EVIDENCE!

But now I am being chased OOC'ly and challenged by EL members..yeah really smooth. Not to mention the OOC harassment I am not reciveing. I was told "peh! whatever - you should have grown up by now:P Being a mother of two and all..." I am sorry..however but my IC actions have nothing to do with my OOC maturity level or life what so ever. I am sorry if your char is pissed at me. but don't take it out on me OOC.

we RP'ed this.

I offerd you guys a war if you wanted to set it up like this one http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=26159.0
 (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=26159.0)
 I did not hear back..my idea was to be IC with this..because we did it IC. but all I Got was OOC random challenges and chased down.

Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Donari Tyndale on April 15, 2008, 10:13:52 pm
It seems your behaviour was roleplay wise correct. So feel free to use /ignore on the idiots that think they can harass you OOCly.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed
Post by: Waylander on April 15, 2008, 10:21:17 pm
Those known to be involved will be dealt with at a time of our choosing. This is regarded as an IC admission of guilt.

To be honest, even if EL members were standing there shouting at them while they were stealing the loot (I know this didn't happen), what they did still would have been better than what I quoted :P

I don't see anything wrong with what they did.  There are a few things that you can argue (EL members sleeping in the guild house, NPCs noticing and whatnot) but, there are those for every RP.  I saw let EL, Outlaws and ToY figure it out between them.

On a completely unrelated topic.
Izza: Don't you owe me tria for something... yeah :P
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Cyl on April 15, 2008, 10:25:11 pm
*me cheers for the Thieves of Yliakum and the Outlaws*

Awesome move.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Caarrie on April 15, 2008, 10:43:11 pm
And no Caarie you other players can't make us perma dead for a RP.
epically with NO EVIDENCE!

It was just an EXAMPLE
Just one more example ....
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Dajoji on April 15, 2008, 10:48:46 pm
Any act of harassment will be punished. Period.

That said, it disappoints me that you're not giving EL a chance to react IC. It's true that if they left their door open they were sort of "asking for it" and your actions were completely IC and coherent with your characters. However, this is the part in which you should ponder what kind of player you want to be: the kind whose RP is enjoyed by the community or the kind that takes advantage of loopholes and doesn't care if others are having fun. If someone is not having fun with your plot, then it's not working out. Someone is going to lose, but let that be the characters not the players.

Ok so saying that we should plan it first... So we are meant to say to EL. "Hi, we'd like to rob your guildhall for everything you have, when would be a good time to do it, when you have lots of guards around to make it nice and fair?"

Forgive me if you think i'm stupid... but I think thats pretty stupid :p

People don't even agree to be robbed for 1 circle. How in the hell are thieves meant to survive if we can't do somthing on the spurr of the moment without OOCly asking. in advance.... Thats just stupid. Ok if we killed someone yeah we'd probably arrange that with the person.

By not letting them react IC (discovering evidence at the crime scene, seeing some of their goods in the Ojaveda market or whatever) your are that guy who won't let the thief rob him a circle. Don't you see it's the same kind of "untouchable" attitude? It is not about who gets away with it but giving all players a chance for their characters to react to the situation.

first off there was NO ONE in the sector NO ONE Saw us.. we looked around.. not our fault thats not god modding that no one was there.

they left it unlocked. their fault we did IC what we would do IC

And no Caarie you other players can't make us perma dead for a RP.
epically with NO EVIDENCE!

Whatever you sold can go back to them if they are willing to find it. The fact that they were sold to NPCs and therefore OOCly untraceable is not relevant. They can ask the merchants if they saw the items. If they did, they can get a description from the person who had them. This is the part in which you share a few clues. If they can't figure it out IC, too bad for them, but throw them a bone. Don't kill your own RP by not letting others join in.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Sen on April 15, 2008, 10:56:42 pm
[...random things about stupidity...]

People don't even agree to be robbed for 1 circle. How in the hell are thieves meant to survive if we can't do somthing on the spurr of the moment without OOCly asking. in advance.... Thats just stupid. Ok if we killed someone yeah we'd probably arrange that with the person.

Also permadeath is not even an option so please no talk on that.

[...]

I was robbed several times. And not as the only one. I see the problem with being evil, but you risked to piss people off maybe even seriously - and I mean the people, not their chars. That's why I say you should speak with them before doing something like this.

I agree fully about all permadeath discussions to be dropped and especially not want to hear again such concerning Izzabella since last time was really bad enough.
And same for ooc challenges... whoever does this should stop it.

Sen
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Izzabella on April 15, 2008, 11:14:53 pm
I would like to point out once again I contacted them Via PM saying if they wanted to fight over this or whatever and if they had talked to me we could have come up with an IC reason for them to pin us that was reasonable to everyone.

the did not respond instead they started sending me query's in ICR, ooc tells in game..ooc chat in main in the tavern telling me I was wrong I should feel bad I should be more mature I should give it back. and challenging me.

Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: zorbels on April 15, 2008, 11:23:45 pm
In all fairness to Izzy she was trying to do right by the game and take advantage of the situation and RP out a robbing.

Izzy the reason you are getting so many angry responses in game from the other guild is this ....

Imagine for some wierd reason that your character somehow is on the server. You have gone to bed for the night in RL and think you have logged out. Something happens with your inventory and people are able to click on you and remove your belongings.  When you return the next day you find out that all of your belongings are gone and worst yet it was people who you roleplay with frequently that took it. Are you telling me that your not going to be upset and feel violated? Are you telling me that if your fellow roleplayers tell you it was all done IC that your just going to be ok with that?

This is how these people who you took from are probably feeling. Even if it was done IC that isn't going to make them feel any better. Obviously the people are angry OOC and feel cheated. This is what we need to concentrate on. How to make it better for both parties. Both IC and OOC. If either party is not willing to bend and try to rectify the problem then there will be hard feelings. Those issues will carry on and may complicate future RP's and relationships with these people in game.

So I guess the question should be "what do we do to make it so that both parties are satisfied and how can we in the future make it so issues like this don't come up again?"  


[Edit] Fixing the problem also takes the Elemental Light Guild taking part and working out the issue. It isn't all up to Izzy.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: kiaerulf on April 15, 2008, 11:29:06 pm
I feel it is time for me to speak now as one of the "victims" ...

No, this has absolutely not been fun for us. We discovered the theft 18.12 GMT this sunday. When we did nobody had a clue on what was going on ... was it a RP or was it just somebody that just went there to get our stuff for the money. Yea, i petitioned a GM at that time, 'cus we had not been informed at all that we suddenly were a part of a RP. Noone in EL had a clue... until around 33 hours later we we find this thread on the forum. Honestly that makes me suspicious about your intentions with robbing our house - did you really do this for a RP and IC?

If you had contacted us (or at least one of us) in advance and agreeing on a set of terms I am quiet sure we would find a RP like this fun ... I think i would "accidentally" leave the GH open if i had knew ... but now ... no i don't think its fun to be taking hostage like this forced to do something and on terms you don't know. You could at least have left a clue in the note you left that this was a RP and also given a contact person which we could contact to agree on the further development... But honestly i feel we are past that stage ... 33 hours after are too late ...

I wonder how you can say so certain that it was one of our members that left the door unlocked. We have had this problem before where it turned out to be a bug ... I trust our members that they are capable of locking a door. Every one of us that have a kay have been instructed carefully in what to do and what not to do. I find it very unlikely ...

Regarding god modding: You are god modding big time by saying you got away clean and nobody saw you. Not even the NPCs just outside our door. There is noway you could have carried a big closet through Hydlaa without being noticed. Not to mention the people sleeping in the GH. We have around 100 members. Not everybody sleeps under the sky. I knwo at least 4 persons that were inside the GH. You really haven't left us with any options at all. That seriously bad RP'ing.

Izzabella: how can you jump conclusions like we don't have any use for our stuff? The swords in there definitely have a purpose. Also some members had emptied their inventory in there because we were going to have a guild event sunday night which required big loading capacity.

Yea true Izzabella: you pm Sihien a solution ... probably the only solution you wanted: a guild war and asking if we could agree on that. Again: not leaving us with many options.

Some questions you are requested to answer:
1. Do you intend to return our stuff?
2. Why did you wait at least 33 hours to inform us that you were doing a RP and we don't really have any option than to accept and follow the rules you have set?
3. You don't considering involving us in a RP like that without even asking one of us and set up a set of rules is god modding?
4. How can you claim we left our door open when we know it might as well be a bug? We instructs the members that have a kety for the GH carefully how to enter the house you know.
5. Do you think we find loosing all our stuff in the GH fun without knowing why it is gone and having no chance of knowing who did it?
6. wouldn't it have been possible to do this just by taking our furniture or some other unimportant stuff and leaving a note saying you have been robbed instead of ripping us completely taking stuff that there was a purpose why it was there?
7. Do you intend to leave us clues somewhere so we have a chance of tracking you down (IC)?
8, will you be willing to negotiate a set of rules for this that alters the way you have acted so far?
9. did you consider that this might actually course a lot more harm than fun?
10. why did you not contact at least one of our members before you did this? That would have helped a lot on how we feel about this
11. Did you leave chars in our GH which could steel even more stuff from us?
12. How did you manage to steal everything when there were around 100 Elemental Light members sleeping in there and a few others which have been granted access?
13. How can you say for sure that the NPC outside our door didn't otice anything oh and also the NPC at the entrance into the Plaza?


I will not accept a RP like this on the basis you created by doing it without even asking us first if we would be interested. I can't speak for everybody but i will highly recommend others not to take part in an event like this that have upset an entire guild (old and big) not only IC but OOC too. This is extremely bad RP.

- Kiaerulf
Ulber Tamer of Elemental Light
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Dajoji on April 15, 2008, 11:30:02 pm
No act of harassment will be tolerated. File a petition and /report those who are resorting to it. We will deal with them.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Duraza on April 15, 2008, 11:33:50 pm
By not letting them react IC (discovering evidence at the crime scene, seeing some of their goods in the Ojaveda market or whatever) your are that guy who won't let the thief rob him a circle. Don't you see it's the same kind of "untouchable" attitude? It is not about who gets away with it but giving all players a chance for their characters to react to the situation.

Don't kill your own RP by not letting others join in.

Firstly let me say I agree with Dajoji fully heartedly here. It isn't right if you do not give them a chance to respond back, leave some kind of weakness or way for them to create a conflict with you. There doesn't have to be a definate winner and you could still suceede in the end but make sure there is a chance that they could as well win. If they don't seize the chance then it is their fault  :P

the did not respond instead they started sending me query's in ICR, ooc tells in game..ooc chat in main in the tavern telling me I was wrong I should feel bad I should be more mature I should give it back. and challenging me.

I have to say if this is the case than I would not worry about it. Try and explain to them that your willing to give them a chance at winning. If they don't take the chance or aren't willing to be fair about the situation then I'd just ignore them. It isn't worth the time if they aren't willing to cooperate.

Edit:

One thing I disagree with you on Kiaerulf is this:

If you had contacted us (or at least one of us) in advance and agreeing on a set of terms I am quiet sure we would find a RP like this fun

I feel rp should always be random. Things happen in the real world and they take you by surprise. Sometimes for big events it is easier to plan such things out ahead of time. This however was a robbery, something that players often rp without warning. I don't feel that it is necessary for them to have to warn you. They started an rp with you. Now it would be your turn to react. Planning these things in advance really takes away from the realism of the roleplay. When random you truely have the chance to test your rping skills, to force yourself to react how your character would react.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Kaerli on April 15, 2008, 11:41:22 pm
My 2 Tria:  How were they supposed to coordinate this ahead of time?  It's kinda hard to predict when somebody's going to leave the guildhouse unlocked...btw...RPing leaving clues behind for the long-term is difficult without extremely close coordination and/or some form of support from the game-mechs.  Also, people tend to have OOC emotions over their characters, unfortunately.  (some more than others)  So, if you feel like settling this through coordination, go ahead...I personally do not think of it as right for GMs/Devs to get involved AT ALL though, considering that the thieves did not exploit anything in order to enter.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Izzabella on April 15, 2008, 11:41:38 pm
And I'd like to point out I am NOT the only one involved Sov made the post. Yell at him too! ToY was in on it as well! why do I get all the blame? it was not just me. it was several other outlaws and a few ToY as well.

I am not making any further comments at this time.

Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: kiaerulf on April 15, 2008, 11:57:16 pm
One thing I disagree with you on Kiaerulf is this:

If you had contacted us (or at least one of us) in advance and agreeing on a set of terms I am quiet sure we would find a RP like this fun

I feel rp should always be random. Things happen in the real world and they take you by surprise. Sometimes for big events it is easier to plan such things out ahead of time. This however was a robbery, something that players often rp without warning. I don't feel that it is necessary for them to have to warn you. They started an rp with you. Now it would be your turn to react. Planning these things in advance really takes away from the realism of the roleplay. When random you truely have the chance to test your rping skills, to force yourself to react how your character would react.

All I ask of is if they at least left us with a clue that this is a RP event. I am not asking for a detailed agreement just something like: you will not loose anything of importance, like quest objects, crafted weapons and other stuff that can't easily be recovered. Second: No, our entire guild didn't have to know or agree about this until it actually happened. As i said: if they contacted me asking if we were interested in doing such an event i would most likely accept and "accidentally" leave the door open.
All i ask of is some clues of what is going on: is it a noob that needed money and just went and sold everything or is it a RP. I don't like being told something like that 33 hours after it had happend. Oh, and I definitely don't like being told that there are no clues what so ever because we covered our tracks very well.

This was only possible to do because of the way the game mechanics work. This wouldn't have been possible IRL. Not with a guild of over 100 members.

I know what i really think of this but I will not tell 'cus you will not like to hear that. Yea, Im furious about how you did this, and so is pretty much else of the EL.

And Izzabella: You can't expect people to sit in front of the computer 24x7. At least give us a little time to find a way of reacting. And btw. I suggest you ignore whatever comments you get from my guildmates. Don't take that any further. I have asked them just to leave it and the Tamer group will come up with a solution. But i can't restrict them in what they actually write.
I ask of you walk careful here. You are in a mine field right now (mixture of emotions and other stuff). You kinda started this in a bad way. So give them some slack.

- Kiaerulf
Ulber Tamer of the Elemental Light
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: zorbels on April 15, 2008, 11:58:03 pm
With all of the term oil that has been brought to light with this RP I don't think a guild war would be the wisest of ideas. There are people upset here and a guild war will only make it worse. It wouldn't be done purely in RP because of the people who are pissed off OOC. I think another solution is in order. Hope you guys (ALL WHO WERE INVOLVED) work it out and set a good example for those who will land up in this situation in the furture. 

[Edit] spelling error :P
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: SovHed on April 16, 2008, 12:03:48 am
I'd like to point out that it isnt JUST IZZABELLA.. I posted this thread and I am responsible as well, so please don't direct all your abuse to her.

Quote
1. Do you intend to return our stuff?
Nope, we sold it already
Quote
2. Why did you wait at least 33 hours to inform us that you were doing a RP and we don't really have any option than to accept and follow the rules you have set?
I think you realized the moment one of you tried to get into the guild hall and warning you would really have ruined our stealth don't you think?

Quote
3. You don't considering involving us in a RP like that without even asking one of us and set up a set of rules is god modding?
Setting up rules for robbing.. thats a contradiction already. Theres not really a way to make a theft "fair".. and theres also no way of planning you leaving your door open.... go figure.

Quote
4. How can you claim we left our door open when we know it might as well be a bug? We instructs the members that have a kety for the GH carefully how to enter the house you know.
Obviously one of your members forgot to lock it as every other house is locked and has been locked since that time. Also, when you lock your own house don't you check its locked properly?

Quote
5. Do you think we find loosing all our stuff in the GH fun without knowing why it is gone and having no chance of knowing who did it?
No I shouldn't think it was terribly fun for you but being robbed is never fun. It is gone because you left the door open and we did it. <<still ooc btw :)

Quote
6. wouldn't it have been possible to do this just by taking our furniture or some other unimportant stuff and leaving a note saying you have been robbed instead of ripping us completely taking stuff that there was a purpose why it was there?
As I mentioned before thieves don't take your underwear they take your TV, thats completely illogical

Quote
7. Do you intend to leave us clues somewhere so we have a chance of tracking you down (IC)?
We have left lots of clues but you obviously haven't seen them so what more can we do?

Quote
8, will you be willing to negotiate a set of rules for this that alters the way you have acted so far?
Like what? we return your stuff and surrender to the town guard suffering a permadeath? or prewarn you in advance next time so you can say no?

Quote
9. did you consider that this might actually course a lot more harm than fun?
It's a robbery, it isn't fun. Next time will break into your guild house and tidy it up and maybe leave some nice things for you.

Quote
10. why did you not contact at least one of our members before you did this? That would have helped a lot on how we feel about this
See question number 2

Quote
11. Did you leave chars in our GH which could steel even more stuff from us?
No, we left after cleaning you out I think, but you'll never know will you?

Quote
12. How did you manage to steal everything when there were around 100 Elemental Light members sleeping in there and a few others which have been granted access?
100 people in your guildhouse? do you sleep on the windowsill? Pretty cosy I would imagine ;)

Quote
13. How can you say for sure that the NPC outside our door didn't otice anything oh and also the NPC at the entrance into the Plaza?
After the event I asked Fholen Medraa about it and he said: 
Quote
   
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about robbery
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about thieves
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about guild house
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?

So I think that about covers all your questions. Please let me know if you have more...
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: kiaerulf on April 16, 2008, 12:06:23 am
My 2 Tria:  How were they supposed to coordinate this ahead of time?  It's kinda hard to predict when somebody's going to leave the guildhouse unlocked...btw...RPing leaving clues behind for the long-term is difficult without extremely close coordination and/or some form of support from the game-mechs.  Also, people tend to have OOC emotions over their characters, unfortunately.  (some more than others)  So, if you feel like settling this through coordination, go ahead...I personally do not think of it as right for GMs/Devs to get involved AT ALL though, considering that the thieves did not exploit anything in order to enter.

I dont' ask for much coordination just some kind of notice and agreement. But doing it like this not leaving us any option on how to act is bad RP IMHO.
And as I said: You could have asked me and i would have forgotten to lock the door. Now I will never participate in a event like this.

If at least one person in EL knew this and could ensure us that nothing "bad" would happen yea, then I would feel a lot more possitive about this. Right now I dont' see any way out of this RP-wise.

The GM's got involved because nobody in EL knew this was a RP. Whether or not they exploited anything i don't know and have no way of telling.

- Kiaerulf
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Duraza on April 16, 2008, 12:08:37 am
Kiaerulf: I know what you mean but take this situation to understand where I'm coming from as well.

Two players plan to have a one on one fight, a good guy and a bad guy. What the bad guy doesn't expect is that a few other good guys randomly appear at the scene (not knowing it was to happen) and help defend the good guy and beat the bad guy. Now if your the bad guy and you start complaining that what happened wasn't apart of the planned event you'd be the one being a bad rper. The good guys could claim that they were acting in character, responding to a situation. They are noble and would not just stand and watch as someone beat up on another they felt equally noble.

That situation happens often to players like me who like to start trouble. Plenty of players get involved and go agaisnt me but I don't get mad because I know its rp and that is the risk you take. If I did people would find me silly and a bad rper.

Whatever thieves were involved in this event did the same thing. They responded ICly to something their character realized. Complaining about it happeneing is just as bad as if I were to complain everytime a new good guy wanted to kill me. In situation one I'd be losing the argument so what should make situation two any more different?

I'm really going to wonder how the community is going to act when lockpicking and pickpocketing are actually implemented and these things can happen without any warning. It is going to happen eventually so learn how to react to it now in an rp manner.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Izzabella on April 16, 2008, 12:12:00 am
My 2 Tria:  How were they supposed to coordinate this ahead of time?  It's kinda hard to predict when somebody's going to leave the guildhouse unlocked...btw...RPing leaving clues behind for the long-term is difficult without extremely close coordination and/or some form of support from the game-mechs.  Also, people tend to have OOC emotions over their characters, unfortunately.  (some more than others)  So, if you feel like settling this through coordination, go ahead...I personally do not think of it as right for GMs/Devs to get involved AT ALL though, considering that the thieves did not exploit anything in order to enter.

I dont' ask for much coordination just some kind of notice and agreement. But doing it like this not leaving us any option on how to act is bad RP IMHO.
And as I said: You could have asked me and i would have forgotten to lock the door. Now I will never participate in a event like this.

If at least one person in EL knew this and could ensure us that nothing "bad" would happen yea, then I would feel a lot more possitive about this. Right now I dont' see any
way out of this RP-wise.

The GM's got involved because nobody in EL knew this was a RP. Whether or not they exploited anything i don't know and have no way of telling.

- Kiaerulf

We did not exploit anything but an unlocked door. and think about if you went to work one morning and left you house unlocked. your house would be empty when you returned so yeah...bad things happen..move on. you guys still have each other and your house and hard lesson learned to lock your door.



Edit---also as far as I know no GM's are involved other than the comments on here. I did not report anyone for harassing and yelling and guilt tripping me OOC. I am not like that, OOC, I deal with it myself and talk to you if you want to reasonably but stop trying to make me feel bad OOC for my char's actions. My char is a thug, she feels no guilt, sure I do OOC..in fact OOC I had to be talked into doing this! I was telling them no... so cut me a little slack people I was merely RPing. again I've not used the /report feature, contacted a GM or used /ignore (in fact I've never used the /ignore command before other than to test it once and remove the name after :P)
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Velh Krome on April 16, 2008, 12:18:31 am
Quote from: Sov
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about robbery
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about thieves
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about guild house
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Ouch, own goal - please tell me you consider NPCs are meant to be smarter than that, and please tell me you didnt do the break in front of Fholens nose...  :-X

Quote
No, we left after cleaning you out I think, but you'll never know will you?
A proper and honest "No of course not" can be expected, instead of provoking more  ::|

I cant help, but with that your post I am starting to wonder a bit..
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Izzabella on April 16, 2008, 12:21:21 am
Quote from: Sov
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about robbery
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about thieves
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about guild house
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Ouch, own goal - please tell me you consider NPCs are meant to be smarter than that, and please tell me you didnt do the break in front of Fholens nose...  :-X


No Velh that was a joke. we had a an outlaw talking to him at the time about some questions on Laanx and how to better serve Laanx himself. ;)

or maybe he was doing this as taken from one of my char's logs...
-Fholen sinks to the ground as his legs fail him and wracking sobs shake his body.-  -don't anything else was on his mind at this point ;)
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Velh Krome on April 16, 2008, 12:23:13 am
admitted, nice counter!=D
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Noriin on April 16, 2008, 12:24:37 am
Think NPCs are dumb? Click here! (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=29353.0)
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: SovHed on April 16, 2008, 12:27:36 am
For all those who didnt get it *sigh* it was a joke..

Check if you are silly by going here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU)
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: kiaerulf on April 16, 2008, 12:34:23 am
I'd like to point out that it isnt JUST IZZABELLA.. I posted this thread and I am responsible as well, so please don't direct all your abuse to her.

Quote
1. Do you intend to return our stuff?
Nope, we sold it already


Well, then we don't really have anything to discuss ... You have an entire guild on your backs now ... and i kinda have a feeling that we got a few supporters in other guilds too.

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2. Why did you wait at least 33 hours to inform us that you were doing a RP and we don't really have any option than to accept and follow the rules you have set?
I think you realized the moment one of you tried to get into the guild hall and warning you would really have ruined our stealth don't you think?


Well, I think there is a reason why we filed a petition: Nobody had a clue of what was going on. You could at least have written in the note [this is a RP: for any further details contact: XYZ. But please note that XYZ do not participate in this event as an actor just as a supervisor]

Quote

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3. You don't considering involving us in a RP like that without even asking one of us and set up a set of rules is god modding?
Setting up rules for robbing.. thats a contradiction already. Theres not really a way to make a theft "fair".. and theres also no way of planning you leaving your door open.... go figure.

Did you even consider the possibility that we might actully like such an event if we had a clue?
Yes, Im telling you: You should have contacted one of our Tamers. Ask him to act as a supervisor just so we know what was going on and what to expect.
I don't really need many rules for such an event except for one: People will get the stuff back that matters to them.

Quote
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4. How can you claim we left our door open when we know it might as well be a bug? We instructs the members that have a kety for the GH carefully how to enter the house you know.
Obviously one of your members forgot to lock it as every other house is locked and has been locked since that time. Also, when you lock your own house don't you check its locked properly?


Oh well, this is not pretty anymore so i might aswell write this:
Since you are so certain about this I can only guess on you had an insider that have gotten a key somehow.

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5. Do you think we find loosing all our stuff in the GH fun without knowing why it is gone and having no chance of knowing who did it?
No I shouldn't think it was terribly fun for you but being robbed is never fun. It is gone because you left the door open and we did it. <<still ooc btw :)


I don't understand the smiley there. You are ruining the pleasure for a lot of people with playing PS and you find it funny?
This is a game pal. Its supposed to be funny FOR EVERYBODY.

Quote
Quote
6. wouldn't it have been possible to do this just by taking our furniture or some other unimportant stuff and leaving a note saying you have been robbed instead of ripping us completely taking stuff that there was a purpose why it was there?
As I mentioned before thieves don't take your underwear they take your TV, thats completely illogical


So thieves steal all furniture plants and everything else of absolutely no value? NO
This looks more like a vandetta against a guild than an actual fun RP event.

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Quote
7. Do you intend to leave us clues somewhere so we have a chance of tracking you down (IC)?
We have left lots of clues but you obviously haven't seen them so what more can we do?


We had absolutely no idea if we should look for clues.

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8, will you be willing to negotiate a set of rules for this that alters the way you have acted so far?
Like what? we return your stuff and surrender to the town guard suffering a permadeath? or prewarn you in advance next time so you can say no?


Well, At least return the stuff that matters to people. Stuff thats not easily replaceable. But I guess you didn't think that far as this would actually affect a lot of people alot.

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Quote
9. did you consider that this might actually course a lot more harm than fun?
It's a robbery, it isn't fun. Next time will break into your guild house and tidy it up and maybe leave some nice things for you.


ITS a game. But if you like it that way I am now (or at least my alt is) an assassin looking out for "random" people to kill ... is that fun? Tell me if its fun when you have been killed 10 times in a day when you just want to mine platinum. Yea, it might seem meaning less to you, but its great fun for me ... so i guess its ok.

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10. why did you not contact at least one of our members before you did this? That would have helped a lot on how we feel about this
See question number 2


You still don't get it do you?

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11. Did you leave chars in our GH which could steel even more stuff from us?
No, we left after cleaning you out I think, but you'll never know will you?


If you did, that highly OOC and will definitely get reported and expected to taken action upon. There is absolutely no way you would be able to hide in there IC.

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12. How did you manage to steal everything when there were around 100 Elemental Light members sleeping in there and a few others which have been granted access?
100 people in your guildhouse? do you sleep on the windowsill? Pretty cosy I would imagine ;)


You didn't answer the question. Or did you not think that was possible?

Quote

Quote
13. How can you say for sure that the NPC outside our door didn't otice anything oh and also the NPC at the entrance into the Plaza?
After the event I asked Fholen Medraa about it and he said: 
Quote
   
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about robbery
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about thieves
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about guild house
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?

So I think that about covers all your questions. Please let me know if you have more...

Oh yea, thats RP at its best ... i see that ... NOT
Thats just taking advantage of game mechanics again.


Find a reasonable solution to this OOC quick, one that benefits us.

- Kiaerulf
Ulber Tamer of Elemental Light
[/quote]
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Noriin on April 16, 2008, 12:39:09 am
For all those who didnt get it *sigh* it was a joke..

Check if you are silly by going here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU)
.
I like the tone this thread is gathering.
I was up to defend the thieves here since they've always had a hard time to play they chars.
Every time I was about to post.. realized there were already 5 more in there...
However this shows off, no need to say more.
Both parties are wasting their time so Kiareulf.. I wouldn't bother trying

Thank you all for bringing the show up, was fun.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: SovHed on April 16, 2008, 12:48:31 am
1: Your guild still doesn't have anything pointing to us as a guild... that im aware of.. so no ic action should really be taken agaisnt us unless you have a firm IC reason for agression non-related to this event.

2: you filed a petition because you got robbed? o.O wow ok... .

Stuff that is valuable to you? small potted plants? some crafted swords, some npc bought swords, a couple of empty sacks, a couple of sacks with daggers in, and a few bits of armor.... Nothing terribly personal in that, nothing that can't be replaced.  I'm terribly sorry if you did lose something of emotional value to you, but if you have OOC emotions for an item IG..... detach RL from IG.

A laugh? No :) is a smile.. not a laugh..  ;D is a laugh... not :) see the difference?

a vendetta against you? no... not really, just saw an open door and thought we'd have a look, if it was my house I'd understandably be annoyed, but mostly with myself for leaving the door open..

No we didn't have an insider, thats OOC and we don't do that, thats against my guild's philosophy and i'd appreciate you not suggesting it. you left your door open, we walked in. Thats it.

The parts about the character in the guildhouse and the npc quotes at the end were intended as a joke... [humor] adding light heartedness to a nasty situation... sorry if you didn't read that from it.

A solution that benefits you? Hmmm well we could stop calling eachother names.. that would benefit us both. If there is something in particular you lost that is IRREPLACEABLE.. I mean you cant get it back, no matter what, and we still have it, I will return it. as i understand what it is to loose something very very special...

Other than that. Theres not really much else other than that, If you want some other sort of recompense, I suggest you take it up with an insurance company, you have insurance don't you?

I also second what Noriin just said and please can we let it rest already, I think we've both made our arguments clear.

also as an afterthought.. remember: even if you are in a little fantasy world, someone can always burst your bubble of perfection. Good guys DONT ALWAYS WIN
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Izzabella on April 16, 2008, 12:52:36 am
Noriin we were tying to lighten things up ;)

And no we did not plan this, a Char simply was walking around checking doors like a thief would do and got lucky, damn lucky, he then left and got his friends to come help him. we moved quickly and skillfully.

I am not going to ask my next neighbor in RL if I can break into his house next week and take his stuff. Get real people. we acted purely IC and did as our chars would do who stumbled upon  an unlocked house. I am sorry for your loss. you've learned your lesson, and let it be a good one.

Once again we had no spys in your guild to unlock it for us..talk about ooc :P and we did not exploit any bugs.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Karyuu on April 16, 2008, 12:53:40 am
Sov: They filed a petition because they had no idea what happened - if they experienced a bug, if someone deliberately broke in for OOC reasons, etc.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: ThomPhoenix on April 16, 2008, 12:57:33 am
Meh, reading through the thread I have mixed feelings.

There's the "exploit" argument. Last release, there were issues with guildhouse locks. These issues should be fixed, but new ones might pop up, you can never know. Concerning unlocked locks, I advise caution. There's always the possibility of a problem, so be gentle and don't act rashly.

Of course, thieves should steal. Stealing isn't fun, but where's the fun for evil characters if they are not allowed to inflict damage since it's "not fun"? I agree however that roleplay should always give both parties an opportunity to respond. Roleplay goes both ways.

Then, the entire guildhouse was cleaned out. One could ask yourself how that's done since the house would unlikely be deserted (no players around is no excuse, since your character becomes invisible when logged out). Dumb NPCs is no excuse either. Also, thieves would steal valuable goods and I don't see thieves running off with tables, chairs, bookcases, potted plants and entire closets. Such a theft would surely not go unnoticed by either random folks, guards or merchants.

This situation is hard to fix, since the items are already gone. Because of some hostile feeling I'm sensing here I doubt a good follow-up roleplay will come from this too. I think both parties have learned, better leave it at that. The first guildhouse robbery was bound to happen, and it was bound to go wrong.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Izzabella on April 16, 2008, 12:57:48 am
Thats why we posted here OOC'ly to let you know it was not a bug or an OOC attack.



what would you do in the RL if you came home and found your house cleaned out? ;)
It was pretty obvious you were robbed.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Velh Krome on April 16, 2008, 12:59:27 am
Quote from: Sov
1: Your guild still doesn't have anything pointing to us as a guild... that im aware of.. so no ic action should really be taken agaisnt us unless you have a firm IC reason for agression non-related to this event.
Not even now proving "size" to reach a hand by offering them a chance.. I have to admit that disappoints me a bit. If there is the slightest chance the door was unlocked not due to having forgotten to lock it, but by a bug, to agree on an ICish hint to be found within the house by the EL would be quite fair. Instead of being stubborn and saying "We are untouchable", you could come along with something like you can keep a part of it (Yes, I know you already sold it, but items arent unique).
No?

EDIT:
So, is it without any doubt that lock had to be unlocked since people forgot to lock it?
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: ThomPhoenix on April 16, 2008, 01:03:40 am
Even if somebody actually clicked on the button saying "Unlock", it could be considered a bug. Right now it's far too hard to see if a house is locked/unlocked and it's far too easily unlocked by accident. I would really like to have a big red message saying "You have unlocked your guild house!" pop up when you unlock it. The interface is far from finished and leaves way too much space for user mistakes.

The character should be the one to leave the guildhouse behind unlocked by accident, not the player.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Dzyan on April 16, 2008, 01:04:54 am
Ok first of all sorry for my bad english.

I would like to point out a couple of things about this robbering to the EL guild house.

I do agree with the people is saying in real bad things hapen and you are robed and so, i think people is the same at any place they do evil and good stuff, they steal they kill.
So i really feel perfect about robberings and killing by evil chars, because that makes more interesting the game.

But the game has a big flaw that is always favoring the evil chars, and goes against the interest of real fun.

I do agree as i said in REAL you can being robbed without being told, but in REAL too if you want you can go against anyone you
find in the street and kill it because that one took your stuff.
So is unfair, the bad guys has advantage, the conditions of the game don't go in detriment of evil characters, is producing lack of heroes.

There was someone saying that each day the game becomes more barby's world like, because now things are guarded when you leave them on the floor, so noone can took them, i never had anything against someone can took something from the floor, what is unfair is that they do it for free, they have not punishment, soo we have this situation:

      -Evil people can RP evil actions and DO evil actions
      -And Good people all what can do is RP good actions, with not actual efect if the evil people doesn't agree to RP.

If i shouldn't need to ask for killing somone "can i kill you" and that someone should say "yes" (of course they will not)
No one ever would took sooo easily thigns from the floor of other people because they would have consequences.

Yes someone would say then the strong characters will steal everything of everyone and kill evryone, hello??
is not that REAL? if someone want to kill someone in REAL should ask to do it? what for are cops then?
IF somethign like that would hapen, i mean a Strong character harrasing weak ones, there we would need heroes,
other Strong Characters that will kill the Evil ones to safe the weaks, and guilds would have even more meaning for players
because that would be a brotherwhood against evil, or for evilness.

So is not fair that people is saying "this is what hapen in real" "you are robbed without being told", because noone can give a
"real" answer to such "real" like actions.

Now pointing to this like and IG actiong to roleplay, just admiting this is just RP, well is not bad RP just because all the things have been say.
This thiefs demostrated a real lack of logic or maybe a REAL big desire of anooy because they took EVERYTHING, not just Usefull things that they can sell, like a real thief would do, What the hell someone wants a book saying like "here is my stuff"?

So as a player that always helps others and is polite to the others as one of the messages of PS says, i reclaim a correction action from GMs, or allow us to kill everyone we want. Or this actions should be limited to just RP wich means not "real" stuff of game involved.
I think is the logic thing to do.

Someone else said that a RP like Kiaerulf pointed out would need insane amount of work, hem? i think RP means that you will work on it, is not for free, you are acting.
Its meant work.

Now i saw a gm or so said that not harrasment acts or such will tolerate in game, so the fair is that people should suffer bad things and then not do anything to correct them?
Or we are a complete barby's land like world, or we are completely REAL like, so we should be able to punish, or be regreat.

And all the fun that has been done in forums about this and about EL memembers, is not IG is OOC, so there is not RP.

We have suffered and evil action, we can not complain because there is people doing fun, we can not do a correction actoin because we will be punished, and even if we do this "correction" action will not be more than say "HEY You roobed me" and tht is all that is not compared to we have suffered.

Is about the money? or the stuff? no that has nto sense, is a game and is meant to be enjoyed this action is just unfair and just give pleasure to the thiefs that seems people really interested in meaningless things, because after all what is a tria? is somethign? worth to loose your good name for it? And people that enjoy comiting actions
that can not be punished.
Finaly this proposition of a Guild War in my opinion is not more than a distracting action, to say all was about an RP when was just a bad meant stealing.
Posts with images like "crime scene".

So just to end and repeat, i reclaim an answer a LOGIC answer from the team of PS.

Dzyann.-

PD: any weird expresion you can not understand i will explain happily.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Arcline on April 16, 2008, 01:07:20 am
My 2 cents,

ICly, even if NPCS or players saw us, they had no idea who we were or what we were doing with the "huge shelves" etc..  We could have been movers. I have been robbed in RL and our neighbours were told that they were "Aluminum collectors" They cleaned our house out.

Secondly, TECHNICALLY "IC" There is no log off button, so if your character is not visible *He just _isn't_ there* So sorry.
If anyone noticed Outlaws or ToY in that vicinity they should come forward, then you might have a reason IC to investigate.

Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Velh Krome on April 16, 2008, 01:16:57 am
Well, that may be, but I now wonder if that door was truely forgotten to be locked, or if the burglars access was possible due to a bug..
Given that doubt, and consdering the length of this thread: Why the heck cant you two parties come along and agree on a certain and defined evidence? Perhaps even agree on a fair process to decide at some point over the loot? In worst case.. whatever, roll a fricking dice!
But if things wheel on like this there wont be an agreement and both parties will stay upset.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Izzabella on April 16, 2008, 01:18:10 am
We are talking out things in private.

Neko I request a lock to this thread please.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: zorbels on April 16, 2008, 01:24:03 am
Meh, reading through the thread I have mixed feelings.

Then, the entire guildhouse was cleaned out. One could ask yourself how that's done since the house would unlikely be deserted (no players around is no excuse, since your character becomes invisible when logged out). Dumb NPCs is no excuse either. Also, thieves would steal valuable goods and I don't see thieves running off with tables, chairs, bookcases, potted plants and entire closets. Such a theft would surely not go unnoticed by either random folks, guards or merchants.

This situation is hard to fix, since the items are already gone. Because of some hostile feeling I'm sensing here I doubt a good follow-up roleplay will come from this too. I think both parties have learned, better leave it at that. The first guildhouse robbery was bound to happen, and it was bound to go wrong.

My thoughts on this whole situation exactly. Though I really can't get over the potted plants being stolen!
/me falls over laughing "What kind of theif steals a plant?"
/me looks at her strawberry plant, stops laughing and looks around suspiciously

Oh and heres a brain fart I had. Did anyone put thought into the possibility that the familiars can be trained to be gaurd pets? Perhaps one of them bite one of the thieves on the leg? This could be a clue for the EL guild? At any rate I am in agreement with people in the thread who are not bying the "no one saw us" answer. It is just impossible to not be seen at one point.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Dzyan on April 16, 2008, 01:26:52 am
Why private? I think this is public as concern and the way PS is played and the way players relate.


Yes they stole the plants too, cleaver thiefs, hehe.

Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: kiaerulf on April 16, 2008, 01:28:05 am
My 2 cents,

ICly, even if NPCS or players saw us, they had no idea who we were or what we were doing with the "huge shelves" etc..  We could have been movers. I have been robbed in RL and our neighbours were told that they were "Aluminum collectors" They cleaned our house out.

Secondly, TECHNICALLY "IC" There is no log off button, so if your character is not visible *He just _isn't_ there* So sorry.
If anyone noticed Outlaws or ToY in that vicinity they should come forward, then you might have a reason IC to investigate.

Yea, like an NPC suddenly comes forward without any GM interaction? I am quiet sure Floren have noticed you he was there all the time (Im 99.9% certain of that). He would be able to describe you.

You are taking advantage of game mechanics like its not possible to see you carry an huge loset around, npcs can't say anything but what they are programmed to do and you ignore the fact that that at least 4 ppl were in the house sleeping in the beds you carried away without anyone waking up.

Had this been RL yea i would have been a sleep in house when Im no where else in the world. And since we are a guild of at least 100 ppl, there is a really good chance that at least someone were in there. Yea, and i don't always lock my door when Im at home sleeping.

I will still claim that our guildies doesn't unlock the door for the GH. Its not needed for entering and they are aware of that.

You just can't expect us to be online 24x7.

You keep saying this was a really awesome RP ... I dont' see any RP at all. You leave us no possibilities what so ever to participatesince you say yourself that you left no traces anywhere and nobody saw you. How can we react otherwise than being pissed? There is simply not such a thing as a perfect crime in RL.
To me this is has nothing to do with a RP.

Oh, and to those involved in this: Don't complain about random violence and back stabbing in Yliakum is OOC and no fun. An alt of mine have just found a new way of living. And when i have killed you, you better turn over all your money and your entire inventory or else you are OOC because you have just been robbed.

I would really like the GMs to state if this kind of RP is accepted... both the one just mentioned above and the GH theft.

- Kiaerulf
Ulber Tamer of Elemental Light

*edit*

Well, that may be, but I now wonder if that door was truely forgotten to be locked, or if the burglars access was possible due to a bug..
Given that doubt, and consdering the length of this thread: Why the heck cant you two parties come along and agree on a certain and defined evidence? Perhaps even agree on a fair process to decide at some point over the loot? In worst case.. whatever, roll a fricking dice!
But if things wheel on like this there wont be an agreement and both parties will stay upset.

As far as i am concerned a "continued RP" is not possible.

I can't think of any good way they can make it up for us except helping us at least getting some of it back and give us an apology for the way they played this.

- Kiaerulf

*edit*

We are talking out things in private.

Neko I request a lock to this thread please.

You are the one that took this public. We will end this in public. Or do you start to feel you were mistaken and runs out of arguments?

- Kiaerulf

[edit: sorry for the triple posts not the best debating technique i know.]
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Arcline on April 16, 2008, 01:36:36 am
If you want to get technical I've heard of people having the clothes robbed off of their bodies while they were asleep. and secondly, everyone that was robbing the house was cloaked. We learned from our mistake with the Gug takeover, you guys learn from yours. lock your door.
No more responses. Izzy has told us to hand over loot to her.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Izzabella on April 16, 2008, 01:41:28 am
We would like to find and OOC solution that will benefit both sides we are talking with moderator (someone not for either side) 

But you if want to continue the childish accusations of abusing bugs and flaming we can continue that here if you'd like.

We are tying to come up with a solution for both sides atm that we can do IC and still be okay with everything

/chill pill all!
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Velh Krome on April 16, 2008, 01:43:33 am
Quote
we are talking with moderator
Quote
/chill pill all!
sounds good! \\o//
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Under the moon on April 16, 2008, 01:46:27 am
Now if it was me, I would go around to NPCs who buy things and 'ask' them about who dumped a load of belongings on them not so long ago. Do this by going to the NPC, asking your questions, getting no answers, then sending your logs to the folks who were on the other side of the robbery to fill in the "I don't know what you are talking about." parts with what they would have realistically said. A good roleplayer will be glad to fill in this information, and perhaps give you a lead. If you can prove the items were yours (by telling the NPC what you had and sending the logs to the robbers to respond to), then the NPC can 'give your items back' by the robber OOC giving you the items instead of the NPCs.

But then, I am an uber roleplayer. ;)

Edit: In addition- very few NPCs will buy things from secretive cloaked figures, so that is not a valid answer. The cloaks would have had to come off.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Dzyan on April 16, 2008, 01:53:23 am
I am totaly with you Under the moon, that would be very enjoyable i think, that is why i am for both extremes real RP or be able to really punish. What hapen is in an ankward middle.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: zorbels on April 16, 2008, 02:00:18 am
I think underthemoon's suggestion is awesome. It would provide some great RPing and maybe even mend the hostility that has formed from this RP on both sides. :) You never know it might be fun to RP and turn out to be bigger than it is already.

Does no one like my familiar suggestion?  :'( :P
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: kiaerulf on April 16, 2008, 02:39:48 am
But to do that we need to know who we can send the logs to right away ... not 33 hours after we found out.
That would have been ok. But it requires a moderator/supervisor that doesn't take part in the RP othan acting as a pipeline to the right persons. But they didn't leave us with an ootunity like that.

This is what i would call a guild event with an external victim.

- Kia

[edit: Since you will not allow me or anybody from EL tell you whether we agree or not I will do it here: You can't end a discussion like you just did on IRC: we did NOT tell you we could agree on those terms. This is not a TV show or dictatorship ... Thats not how RL disagreements are settled in a democratic world. I agreed to leave this alone if Sov, Izzabellea or somebody else that was involved would admit they didn't leave us with any opportunity to act agaist this within reasonable time (meaning right after we found out). But they didn't accept that ... so we didn't get to agree on anything ... this didn't not end with a settlement as far as EL is concerned]
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: Caarrie on April 16, 2008, 02:47:08 am
The guilds involved have OOC agreed to settle this. This thead maybe locked now. No more information will be given on how it was solved. I request no more posts being made by either side on this issue or from others as this has been solved.
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: neko kyouran on April 16, 2008, 03:14:40 am
as requested...

(i'll keep my thoughts to myself since it won't help, nor hinder the issue at this point.)
Title: Announcement: Relationship between The Outlaws and Elemental Light
Post by: kiaerulf on April 18, 2008, 05:24:04 am
Hi everybody

Considering the last couple of days events i find it appropriate to announce that the relationship between The Outlaws and Elemental Light is now back to normal.

Izzabella and I had a good conversation about this issue and I think we both understand how each other feel and I think we both agree on that we have learned a lot from this.I just hope for that everybody else also did so this will not be repeated again.
I think i will leave it to Izzabella if she wants to go into any further details about this. As far as EL is concerned we are back on track with the Outlaws.

[edit]
Regarding those other people involved, like Thieves of Yliakum, nothing has been settled yet.
[/edit]

And to everybody else: bear with us if we try to steer clear of some RP events for a little while, please. Emotions got pretty high on this one, so we need a little time to settle down.

And to those who have expressed their sympathy with us: Thanks a lot. Its nice to know that we have a lot of friends out there. We really appreciate it. It has really warmed our hearts.

Have fun everybody.

- Kiaerulf
Ulber Tamer of Elemental Light

PS! Remember this is a game. What you do have to be fun for all parties

[edit: corrected a typo]
Title: Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
Post by: neko kyouran on April 18, 2008, 02:56:53 pm
threads merged.