PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: Noriin on November 05, 2008, 02:39:33 am
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When I enter Kada El's nowadays I see this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy4FXXfSYU8).
It ¡s surprising how quick people forgets stuff like this (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32673.0) and this (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=33236.0).
I guess I won't be hanging around there much more for now.
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I thought there was a camp now outside of town for evildoers. In Kadas I was a few times these days/weeks, only to find people killing each other again and again.
For some reason I grow a feeling people wont learn by history.
This is pretty sad in my opinion, but meanwhile I dont expect any change anymore, the less since even experienced players go for hack'n'slash in midst of town as if it was some Duke Nukem, even though they should, or at least -could-, know better.
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Well as they say: if you can't beat them, get a bigger stick.
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I thought you both quit?
The tavern doesn't seem very violent to me. But I don't actually play much, so... It will change in the future.
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I dunno, maybe I'm just on at bad times, but right now it seems kinda... y'know... empty.
That being said, this issue has had no shortage of coverage. You posted the links yourself. If you're not going to go there, don't go there.
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If you're not going to go there, don't go there.
If you don't approve the war in Irak, don't go to Irak.
(http://bp2.blogger.com/_UXXtCpkeKiA/SIwpKbg7YOI/AAAAAAAADEg/O-gcRQ86xr0/s400/ostrich_head_in_ground_full.jpg)
Or pretend it's not there.
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"I'm not going to Iraq. There's a war going on there."
"Okay. So don't go to Iraq."
"That's right, CLING TO YOUR IGNORANCE! BUT I WON'T BE LIKE YOU!"
I know, I'm an ass. It's a problem, I'm workin' on it. But if you're trying to start a discussion, put a bit more effort into it rather than simply saying "I'm not going there anymore." If you've actually got something interesting, insightful, or new on the issue that wasn't mentioned in the threads you linked, then please, PLEASE, say it. Otherwise there's not really a point.
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There's so much fighting in the tavern because the tavern is where a lot of the RP happens, which leads to RP fights.
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If people feel like fighting, they should leave Hydlaa or go somewhere that the Octarch has no power.
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You just need to go out on a Saturday night to your local town to see that PS again mirrors RL. Most fights are drink fueled, people drink most in bars and taverns. Makes sense to me and it would seem wrong if the Tavern was a tranquil place of relaxation. It's a bar, bar brawls happen.
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Pizik, we aren't talking about regular brawls. These are actual... battles, usually between guilds. I have never seen a brawl in Kada El that involves intoxication.
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One could always try pinging a GM and if we have a GM4 and enough others available we can end it in an IC fashion
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I thought you both quit?
No. I don't remember neither Velh nor me having ever said we do quit. We set both -forum- accounts for deletion a while ago but nobody seems to care to delete them, so I reactivated it to create this thread.
Well as they say: if you can't beat them, get a bigger stick.
Not my style.
I know, I'm an ass.
I didn't say that. :P
In response to that same post though, I realise I mispelt Iraq so my apologies...
You posted the links yourself.
If you've actually got something interesting, insightful, or new on the issue that wasn't mentioned in the threads you linked, then please, PLEASE, say it. Otherwise there's not really a point.
I posted the links for a reason. The first one was meant to discuss about this same issue. The second one was (or felt like, correct me if I'm wrong) an attempt to adress this and other issues of similar nature. It was posted by a GM so that takes me to think that such behavior wasn't approved by them when it, earlier on, became an issue for some players.
I didn't expose the topic further because it's more than well known and a solution to it, which worked for a while, was set.
Somehow my character was attacked IN the tavern not less than ten times from saturday to monday. The last night I logged another character and the first thing I saw was a fight right before Allelia's face (meaning in front of the door, meaning in the guards' sight). I logged off.
The issue has turned up again and this thread was meant as a reminder.
There's so much fighting in the tavern because the tavern is where a lot of the RP happens, which leads to RP fights.
I don't call ignoring the setting/surroundings "RP".
You just need to go out on a Saturday night to your local town to see that PS again mirrors RL. Most fights are drink fueled, people drink most in bars and taverns. Makes sense to me and it would seem wrong if the Tavern was a tranquil place of relaxation. It's a bar, bar brawls happen.
Bar fights? Punching? Mug and chair throwing? Do it all you please! It's a tavern not the kindergarten.
That's not what I'm talking about at all. I'm talking about strong magic, about swung swords, about people dying in the tavern, about burnt up room doors, about people RPing taunting the guards twirling a sword in the air in their faces and considering that legitimate RP... I've even seen somebody RP making the barrels explode with red way magic and even though he ran away at the time, he was in the place again ten minutes later. Yes... like nobody would react if you leave there a puddle of blood or you blow up the whole building. Who cares, eh?
Well, perhaps then those "RPers" want to try to do that in RL and see how it goes.
One could always try pinging a GM and if we have a GM4 and enough others available we can end it in an IC fashion
I wouldn't mind that, but I'd usually would feel like a pain in the beep myself to go disturb a GM for something like this that players should be responsible enough to keep in order. The same way I would feel like a pain if I, instead of following the "RP" as i did, would have told those people OOC that I don't agree with their play and turned around to leave. Though I guess I too have a limit. :P
I'm obviously not aware of how many numbers/dedication are required to have GM guards eventually patrolling the town. But I can assure that it worked to stop this kind of behavior (same for the usual dueling in the plaza and so on). So if GMs are to intervene that would be my personal choice.
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I can chime in a bit here.
For one the rps made with guards included were made to answer complaints of this nature.
The gm guards are now consistent characters played by specific gms and they are permitted to respond IC as well as ooc to incidents of this nature.
It is actually favored that one should inform a gm when outrageous crap is going on. The gm can come in invisible, observe, and decide how best to handle the situation.
I encourage you you to appeal for gm aid when this sort of thing is going on.
Is it a pain in the butt? Sure. It is however something the gms sign on for.
Remember than many on the team are here because of some deficiency they perceived in the game and hoped to address if you feel dismayed at certain things, odds are there is a dev or gm that agrees.
All of that being said, we definitely have a problem covering all hours all the time with gms on patrol. There is no way around it, just hard to keep an active around the clock patrol or to get the number of needed gms to make that happen with this small of a player base.
Since we cannot cover all hours it really is important that players make some attempt to recognize that the npc guards ARE to be roleplayed as though they we GM guards, with all the powers and authority of gm guards.
Please use the petition function when you can, and everyone try to keep your rps reasonable.
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Meh, I say tavern fights aren't bad as long as it's not an epic attack squence. Even if someone throws some spells one or two, as long as they run away. Thats perfectly fine as thats real life. Evil doing doesn't stick to shady places. What happens to a bank in real life? Someone comes and threatens everyone and robs it. What happens to people in the city, even in plain sight? They get attacked.
Tavern fights aren't bad if they aren't like 15 minutes long. You seriously can't expect evildoers to wait around the banished camp all day for someone to come in looking to pick a fight. Thats silly and unrealistic. Real evil brings the fight to the people in public and it happens somewhere everyday of our lives whether you see it or not :P
Criminals may hang out in places like sewers, the banished camp, dark alleyways, etc but they also attack people in full view of others. It just makes sense.
Now I'm sure someone is going to point out the guard thing. The guard is everywhere, the guard is more powerful than you, the guard can catch you. I'm not disagreeing. However I doubt if someone attacks once or twice then runs the guards will just be there. They don't just have a 6th sense that makes them appear at any battle by magic and then end it. When they arrive they win, understandable.
If you fight for more than what would be considered 2 minutes (don't literally count 2 minutes because what make take someone 10 minutes for two attacks could only take a few seconds in a real fight) then expect the guard to take you away and send your soul to the crystal. If its just a few seconds I don't see the big deal (I obviously haven't seen all the fights you both may have so I can only speak in my opinion).
Once again, I'm going to draw from Real life. There are good neighborhoods, bad neighborhoods, and sometimes you've got parts of a town that is bad and part that is good. The tavern is right next to a sewer filled with fanatics and monsters. I can't see how people wouldn't expect fighting in that area. I could be wrong but to me it seems like a place you could expect conflict, just not epic conflict.
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Where I live, a pub where several times a day people are hurt or killed will be closed.
I think evildoers could make use of dark alleys. They can watch out their victim in the tavern, and strike outside - what I think is silly is, to attack in front of numerous witnesses (including, and I am almost tired to mention it, Allelia).
[..]and it happens somewhere everyday of our lives[..]
Again: I dont have a problem with "somewhere sometime", but with frequently at the same spot. And I have a problem with people presuming to be RPing, and even tell me they do so (i.e. "lessoning me"), while the same time they obviously arent aware of either any setting or logical sense.
they also attack people in full view of others
I am fine with that - I am sure you yourself have seen dozens of stupid fights I refer to: Have you ever seen any single one who as well took the consequences of being caught by the law? You speak of sense, to be caught is a necessary part of that sense, almost everyone seems to ignore this, "inconvenient", part.
expect the guard to take you away and send your soul to the crystal
lol Why deleting one's char if that one can just state hes a great roleplayer and ignore the setting? As that infamous criminal that he is he can just run around and kill more people? Sounds like awesome RP, no?;)
good neighborhoods, bad neighborhoods
The tavern is as well located close to an official building which, one can only imagine, should be guarded well, not to mention the discrete presence of two guards. And what about that tower right outside the tavern?
Real life may reason to commit crimes, I agree with that and I like that, but real life as well gives an idea about consequences.
All I want is, people really, make up some more thought up stuff, something interesting (or at least reasonable), instead running aroung as if you guys were all rambos - as superpowered as blunt.
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Just to add a little perspective to the number of GM's needed for 24/7 Guard Roleplay if everyone could give 4 hours a day 7 days a week we'd need at least 20 GM's, to cover illness rl issues etc and the fact that every GM is unlikely to be able to cover 7 days a week that'd push the number required to 30+, we currently have 15.
However as I said previously if we are notified either via /petition and /report irc or even forum pm/email, we will try and get online and deal with it or even roleplay an investigation at a later date. Most of us would much rather roleplay than just change stupid names or slap wrists for botting.
ps If you're over 21 and would like the opportunity to role play a guard as well as doing all the other duties that go with being a GM apply here (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=23067.0)
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I think that the Tavern has always been a place where fights got started. The problem now is I see a lot less roleplay behind it. I don't think we should so much worry about where things happen though, more what's happening. People used to complain about how everyone congregated around Harnquist's shop, it just so happened that that used to be where everyone sold their loot and where all the smiths worked. Now the tavern is where everybody goes to hang out, so that's where all the fights start. As far as the fact that the fights sound like a match full of 12 year olds on Call of Duty, I don't know, I think the age group has changed in this game some. It happens. I just don't hang out in the tavern as much... unfortunately everywhere else is deserted by anyone willing to have a conversation.
I also remember when the tavern in Oja was populated... hurmph. There's one in the Kran village too. Maybe people not looking for a fight should try less dangerous taverns :)
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Maybe people not looking for a fight should try less dangerous taverns :)
Thats pretty much the point of contacting the GM's, Kada'els can hardly be considered dangerous with 2 Guards on duty outside the door it'd be like a bar with a cop/MP/SP station right nextdoor
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Anyone who fights in a tavern (and gets caught) should be fined. If only to cover the costs of repairing their damage.
Could such a process be automated in some way? And would that reduce the number of fights?
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I also remember when the tavern in Oja was populated... hurmph. There's one in the Kran village too. Maybe people not looking for a fight should try less dangerous taverns :)
Brado's is supposed to be the violent one, though I'd assume the Gugrontid tavern would be fairly peaceful.
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the Gugrontid tavern would be fairly peaceful
Isnt the Gugrontid tavern meant to be without an owner and abandoned? Unless this has changed I wouldnt be surprised of peace in there ;D
John80sk,
your post sums up my thoughts pretty much. Maybe there has always been such nonsensical bar-wars, and I just never noticed it as much as now, since there are way less alternatives, people willing to play with more patience and passion for well thought out plots that is, than before.
Perhaps the lack of interesting stories told/played ingame is the main issue, and those silly fights only a major symptom. If people dont care about proper stuff, nothing to do about it.
Those GM guards were a good way to solve such issues in an IC fashion, and I certainly like it. In the end this approach even lowered the number of incidents. However, GMs cant be present there around the clock.
If you fight for more than what would be considered 2 minutes
If a char would kill another one right at the counter, clearly obvious to Allelia, and even if its by only one single blow, this char had to go and hide and not come back any soon - and thats why I am not sure presence of GM guards alone could solve it all.
The problem is people had to use common sense, respect to the settings and the honesty to have their chars punished at times.
Lastly: Those plays about stabbing here and attacking there, really, this is boring and just so unoriginal. Trying to remain within the limits of the setting, and the same time still figure out a good and exciting story - thats a challenge! Now will you guys take it on or will you keep on playing silly insignificant games? ;D
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Okay, first. I'm changing the thread's title and this post's as well, having created it with "light" instead of "like" ashames me. XD
I was very tired when I posted it... >:(
Now, given I'm here to do that I'll take the chance to give a few more replies.
What happens to a bank in real life? Someone comes and threatens everyone and robs it.
It happens once. You can rob the pharmacy today and rob the bakery tomorrow. Try to rob the pharmacy two days in a row and the second day you'll find a 2 meters gorilla waiting to give your pretty butt a couple of smacks, a security system with cams and probably those being connected to the police, and probably the owner having a shotgun hidden behind the counter. We only have a tavern (and obiviously many less means than nowadays in RL). I sure can't expect players to never get back in with a character that has been protagonist of a conflict there. But ten minutes later? An hour later? Two hours? Hmm, nope.
I had more stuff from your post to comment Duraza, but I think Velh addressed most of my points in the post right next to yours, so I'll leave it at that. :P
Just to add a little perspective to the number of GM's needed for 24/7 Guard Roleplay if everyone could give 4 hours a day 7 days a week we'd need at least 20 GM's, to cover illness rl issues etc and the fact that every GM is unlikely to be able to cover 7 days a week that'd push the number required to 30+, we currently have 15.
Of course, I didn't mean to have guards constantly patrolling the town but more like eventually that clamod menki Aazxh... er name, did. Or did other guards when the properly meant to be the Guards' events were finished. We've had a pretty long RP (considering GM's usual lack of time) with the guards after one of those when our chars had their place burglared and I must say that it was great to add to the feel (you can read about it in the first chapter of the story we are posting these days). That and other small apparitions of the guards helped keep the feeling there is a patrol around the town, there is no need to have it 24 hours strolling around or even 12 or 6 or 3. Simply to make players realise and acknowledge. Most of them would be feeling odd enough just to have to talk to certain people with an extra dose of respect.
Now the tavern is where everybody goes to hang out, so that's where all the fights start.
Even the levelers/duelers who are usually accused of ignoring the setting (not all of course) may -start- a fight at the tavern and take it outside the city walls to do the duel. Now what happens with the ones that claim to play properly, namely called RPers? Beaten by a noob hm? ;)
Ah, just to point out, this comment isn't meant to refer to an issue about you John80sk, you know I love playing with you... if I could find Jang nowadays I still would! XD
I also remember when the tavern in Oja was populated... hurmph. There's one in the Kran village too. Maybe people not looking for a fight should try less dangerous taverns :)
I'll head to the Gugrontid tavern... with a couple of books under my arm! And perhaps three days later somebody (who still didn't figure out there is a platinum mine right next to it) enters it. :P
Same happens, as you pointed out, with the Broken Doors these days.
If a char would kill another one right at the counter, clearly obvious to Allelia, and even if its by only one single blow, this char had to go and hide and not come back any soon - and thats why I am not sure presence of GM guards alone could solve it all.
GM presence wouldn't solve "it all" but it would make a big deal to keep people aware that they may pop up any time. Or at least that it seemed to do when it was happening.
Given though that Xillix himself recommended asking for a GM intervention if such things should happen, I encourage people witnessing such "RP"s to certainly do so.
And just to point out, none of the three characters I play most often are lawful -at all-. But you know what? If they have to kill/rob/kidnap somebody they drag the target out of the guard's sight. Sounds simple enough.
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I remember when the GM guards first made their appearance at the tavern. I was so incredibly frustrated after having RPed one of my characters going to the bar for a drink, and behind her broke out this incredibly epic battle. People were blasting spells back and forth, others were transforming into who knows what with multicolored eyes and hair and oh good god. It was the most epic l33t RP battle i have ever had the privilege of witnessing. Well, being the good citizen that she is, my character called for the guards (who presumably were just outside) several times and ended up having to just sit at the bar and listen to the noisy epicness behind her because they (the npcs and the battlers) completely ignored her calls.
Later on the GM guards made their first appearance and it was fantastic. I figured that would be the end to the end-of-the-world-omg-i-have-fire-shooting-out-of-my-eyeballs-battles in the tavern...guess not. I have been taking a break and havent been back lately but its a shame to hear that this is still happening. Mega kudos to the GM team though for implementing guards and taking the time to supplement RP in such good way. I still have hope that this will help correct the issue.
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I remember when the GM guards first made their appearance at the tavern. I was so incredibly frustrated after having RPed one of my characters going to the bar for a drink, and behind her broke out this incredibly epic battle. People were blasting spells back and forth, others were transforming into who knows what with multicolored eyes and hair and oh good god. It was the most epic l33t RP battle i have ever had the privilege of witnessing. Well, being the good citizen that she is, my character called for the guards (who presumably were just outside) several times and ended up having to just sit at the bar and listen to the noisy epicness behind her because they (the npcs and the battlers) completely ignored her calls.
This happened to one of my characters, as well. Despite countless calls for the (GM) guards, none came, and finally I had to /tell one about this, but he and his counterpart simply logged out without any call to arms. It seemed like more of a publicity thing than a method to stop these "epic" fights.
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I think you misunderstood me, at the time there werent any GM guards yet..just the regular old npc ones standing outside. My point was that even though my character was clearly hollering for the guards who were standing just outside (and likely would have heard her), they still ignored their presence. Later on that day was the first time that GM guards were "implemented" i guess you could say, and THAT was cool :thumbup:
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Provocatively I'd like to throw in, that roleplaying (thus respecting the Setting?) is not required but "only" encouraged - no need to take things that serious? :P
Btw, nice to see you around, Anu! \\o//
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Heh, suppose I did misunderstand. Regardless, the scene you layed out was about what happened when the GM guards left for the first time (that day). :P
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the Gugrontid tavern would be fairly peaceful
Isnt the Gugrontid tavern meant to be without an owner and abandoned? Unless this has changed I wouldnt be surprised of peace in there ;D
Well, if you read the description of it (I don't remember quite where that's accessed from), it said it's run by volunteers last time I read it. If I wasn't busy with my current characters, I'd have an alt go up there with an inventory full of booze and food and play a volunteer bartender.
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Just three points I'd like to touch on.
I think evildoers could make use of dark alleys. They can watch out their victim in the tavern, and strike outside - what I think is silly is, to attack in front of numerous witnesses (including, and I am almost tired to mention it, Allelia).
And I would love to use dark alleys and sewers and trust me I have tried. Currently I only know of two players that willingly allow their characters to be lured to let themselves become trapped. If you want those kind of evil deeds to take part in shady places then you have to allow yourself to be vunerable. You have to allow yourself to walk through the alleyways, backstreets, sewers, etc where you can get hurt. I've yet to see this (not to imply that you or anyone else doesn't do it already) and if it doesn't happen you won't find any improvement.
I am fine with that - I am sure you yourself have seen dozens of stupid fights I refer to: Have you ever seen any single one who as well took the consequences of being caught by the law? You speak of sense, to be caught is a necessary part of that sense, almost everyone seems to ignore this, "inconvenient", part.
This you've got a big point with. I can't say I'm any different from the number of people who do ignore the big consequences like jail time or character deletion. Truthfully though I do so not because I'm trying to make myself out to be some great super strong roleplayer as you mentioned afterwards. I do it simply to keep a character around till a plot is fully over.
It really isn't 'good' roleplay as I should accept the consequences and I'll admit I'm wrong for it. However it isn't easy to have to accept the consequences every time you try to do something evil, have to delete your character, and then start again. If you don't accept them enough then your a bad roleplayer, if you accept them too much you might as well make a new character every day.
I know someone will say 'well wait in the sewers/etc for targets'. Sometimes the privacy those places offer for a killing is the exact opposite of what an evildoer wants to achieve in a plot. Many times places where the public are together are the places ideal for an attack, not for petty crime roleplays that do belong in private but for intricate plots that may require getting the publics attention in a different way.
It happens once. You can rob the pharmacy today and rob the bakery tomorrow.
I would love to rob the bakery and the pharmacy. Sadly it seems everyone only likes to go to the bakery so the pharmacy is empty for the robbing. In other words, if people move about crime wouldn't be focused in the same place :P
Now with all of that said since it's pointless to sit around and argue as fighting solves nothing I'll make two promises. Firstly, I won't bring my evil roleplays into the tavern. No more hack and slash from any of my characters in Kada's. Secondly, when I need a public place I'll try and take my roleplays to other areas and cities. Oja is at the top of my list for this anyways. I hope this solves whatever piece of your problem I play into.
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I'm not going to get in one of those quote battles tonight.
Basically I'm going to reiterate the points that I made as I don't think people quite got my meaning
First off the guards have been there forever and as long as I can remember haven't done anything about fights in the tavern. Maybe they're lazy, maybe they don't care, maybe they're corrupt. You can't really include them in roleplay, and they do nothing via game mechanics. Don't think they can be considered part of the picture anymore.
Second off I don't think the problem is that this stuff isn't really just a problem with the tavern, it's a problem with the quality of player we have had of late in general. Not sure what or if there's a solution to that one.
Part of what I was going on about I guess was also my disappointment in the fact that nobody uses any other tavern even though we now have two. And the fact that even if the settings claim the tavern is a peaceful place, if it is not, then we can't simply ignore this fact in our roleplay. I think a rowdy bustling place is a perfectly fine fit for a tavern. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't mind seeing more fights in the tavern so long as they weren't just the result of the strange distortion of roleplay that the problems previously mentioned were creating.
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The argument that "Guards are there but dont do anything, therefore the guards aren't there" is fallacious and similar to the one used when I stopped a guild war in the plaza.
The settings decree that Yliakum is a cave inside a stalagtite, settings also has 2 guards outside the Tavern if you roleplay either as if they dont exist or dont behave as a cave or guard would then you are doing what is commonly called "godmodding".
Hydlaa is a largish town in an area rife with bandits and monsters and because of that has a large contingent of guards all sitting in their towers training and waiting if, Jefcra was to whistle he would be backed up with a squad within minutes. That is how you should be playing it, not "oh the Game mechs for active guards isnt in place yet or there aren't enough GMs so I'll do whatever I want"
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I can't wait for Jefcra to learn how to whistle.
But in all seriousness i would say that if everyone adopted to minimize to the bare bones their aggression inside the tavern then we would really only need to learn to petition. It's not hard at all. I write one every time i see someone with an inappropriate name. So why not write one when i see someone brawling i clear eyesight of the guards.
Just my two tria.
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Well actually, you'd think Hydlaa would have fewer guards (Octarchial ones anyways) because the Bronze Doors are so nearby and would need more guards for the fortress, and thus they'd drain the resources of the Hydlaa guards. I'd imagine no more than 50 guards on duty at any given time in Hydlaa. Some on patrol, some, like Jefecra, outside buildings. it is hard to imagine twenty guards in every tower around hydlaa just sitting there fully awake and alert just waiting for something bad to happen. Firstly, I believe it to be unrealistic in the first place to have the two guards outside the tavern all the time. Sure, it has a lot of fights, etc. But there are more important places around the city that need more focused protection.
I'd say, maybe 2-3 guards in every guard tower at any given time, plus about 10 patrolling the city in different areas, plus maybe another 10-15 guarding important places, including the gates, with lookouts every so often on the walls of the city in case of danger. None at all would be in the Arena, nor in the temple dungeon. Or sewers, obviously.
I'd say the response time to an attack in the Tavern would be (if Jefecra weren't there) maybe 5-10 minutes. And then we must take into account how long 5-10 minutes takes in RP.
With my characters that happen to be 'evil' or 'criminals' I happen to run away at the sound of someone yelling for the guards. I respect the power of the guards, even had to explain to someone once that it was in no way possible for a person to beat a guard, especially more than one. Not yet anyways. I believe the RP with that thief who had that staff has shown us how powerful a guard's magic staff is. It can freeze a person in place easily and just about instantly. Guards would also be some of the most trained fighters in Yliakum.
I myself am guilty for fighting in the Tavern, but my characters are generally fighting those who end up going to jail (or running away). If no one calls the guards, and the guards aren't right there, no guards are going to come, and any epic battle can take place :P However, the tavern catching fire might be a bit of a sign :)
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But I's goes there to see if I's can find my mom's. I's do not want to be's hurt. Please make the bad mans go aways so little mes is safe.
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If no one calls the guards, and the guards aren't right there, no guards are going to come, and any epic battle can take place
When it comes to battling inside the tavern, I always assumed Allelia should be the first one to be upset and call for the guards. After all its her place to be burned down, exploded, taken apart and ripped down in the first place.
You certainly wouldnt fight in front of Jefecra, saying as long as no one will call him he wont interfere, or would you? :P
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;) dont forget all the other villages and towns (Ojaveda anyone?) in the area all supplying guards to the Bronze Doors, Hydlaa as the seat of government for the Dome would naturally have a larger fixed contingent of guards, the length of the walls alone would take 20+ guards to watch.
I've estimated (and could be wrong subject to settings :p ) from the number of houses that the population of Hydlaa is @5k if only 1% (double the current US law enforcement/pop %) are guards that makes 50
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Didn't I say fifty...?
And Velh, yeah.... read the quote you quoted :P
If no one calls the guards, and the guards aren't right there, no guards are going to come, and any epic battle can take place
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I did read it properly I think. The point though is, to assume and accept NPCs are meant to act autonomously. Or would you say Allelia is that apathic that she would watch her interior gets broken and her place made a crime a scene?
I would modify it:
If no one calls the guards, and the guards aren't right there, and there are certainly no NPCs in range who would call for the guards, no guards are going to come, and any epic battle can take place
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Ignoring the laws just because enforcement is not implemented is an abuse, period.
There's not even a need to talk about the amount of guards and such things. "Godmodding" also includes the fact that Hydlaa is populated (although only a few NPCs are visible) and organised.
If a serious crime is to happen in the tavern, there would be witnesses, a call to guards, a crowd of spectators coming, and possibly arming themselves and lynching or chasing he culprit, the city gates would be closed, etc, etc. Escape would be extremely difficult, the best chances being hiding in the sewers for a long time.
So, a good plot can include killing in the tavern, but the consequences should be planned, and played as well, either a manhunt, hiding in a house, help from accomplices, etc.
A simple fight (like a brawl, no weapons and no spells) doesn't need so much planning, since the consequences are not so bad, but the brawlers should be fined, or even spend a night in jail, or something.
Now, setting fire to the tavern is just plain silly.
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A crowd of citizens arming themselves would be told to put their weapons away by the guards once they arrive, Khoridor. ^^;
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That's why I wrote 'possibly'
And I won't explore every detailed scenario.
The point is, what we see is only a representation of the setting. But the setting is there.
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Didn't I say fifty...?
Your 50 was a maximum, mine was an absolute minimum
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It was a pleasant surprise to spot a couple of GM guards patrolling the Hammers' auction.
Thumbs up. \o/
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simple fact is the majority of rp is held in the tavern. if you want to rp you go there first. saying hey if your going to be bad please go to this city over here and rp it and leave us alone. thats just nonsense. for one only bad guys would go there, or true rp'ers but still thats a small mount and its out of the way.
basically what your saying is you want all the bad stuff to happen outside of city away from everyone and it only happen to people who choose to go there and ask for it.
am i the only one that finds that ridiculous?
if we are led to believe that guards are there and we cannot do anything wrong.
then the devs must understand that guards wont be there 24/7 and that if someone wants to play the role of a thief or a murderer, then they are not going to go to a designated area and wait for someone to come by and say "please rob and kill me".
so deal with it. duraza had it right, just because there is guards doesnt mean nothing will happen there. and if you dont like real rp fights and attacks in an rp area then why rp?
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No one's saying nothing would happen there, but all the time? Come on. With how many fights go on in Kada's, guards would be stationed in masse there.
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A proposal which I think might work, although I have not clue how to program/realise it:
What about a /alarm command, players could use to alert guards? If someone for example is attacked in Hydlaa, or sees someone attacking someone, they could type
/alarm Guards! Help! Murder at Kada's!
In-game this would look like a normal shout, while the message is sent to a bot who posts the same message on #planeshift-gmtalk. This way, GMs would know directly when and where a guard is needed while the time to log in IRC, join the channel and post your request is saved.
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That's actually a really good idea, Org.
Although it would be hard to pinpoint the culprit?
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They could use the command "/alarm <culprit's first name> Guards! Halp!" Only the "Guards! Halp!" would show up in chat, and the culprit's name will be sent to the GMs.
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But that command could also be spammed with improper names and used all the time even when circumstances don't demand it :(
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And those people will be punished. It goes to the GMs, remember?