PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: rumblebelly on February 15, 2009, 05:57:00 pm
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well i have been out of game for a long time i decided to see what is new and dl the game again. now back when i first played this game a person could log in shout hello to all the good folk and get fine greetings from everyone and there was allways people chatting back and forth but since i have been back i log in and shout "greetins good folk o the realm" and i don't get a single hello back :(
I have wandered arouind a bit and i don't here any roll play going on no witty banter on the chat screen and i am wondering what happened ? has the fine roll play community gone the way of the dinosaur ? or am i just logging in at the wrong time. please someone tell me that it's worth my time to get involved in this game again.
Now on a diff subject i sent a petition to a gm regarding my old char and i havent heard enything yet. how long does it usually take ? do i have to be in game for a gm to help me or can they just message me or email me.
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rumblebelly,
I understand exactly how you feel. I was given a piece of good advise and that is not to stay in one place, look for new friends and you will find role play. Things have changed, but maybe someone like you could teach people the 'old' ways and bring them back.
Have fun!!
Welcome back.
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Now on a diff subject i sent a petition to a gm regarding my old char and i havent heard enything yet. how long does it usually take ? do i have to be in game for a gm to help me or can they just message me or email me.
it can take as long as it will, we dont have gms ingame 24/7. also gms can reply to your petition, the reply will be in your petition window, no gms do no email you back on petitions.
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If you have been gone as long as it sounds it is no wonder things are not as you remembered. There was a complete wipe between MB and CB (crystal blue) and we are now in SB (steel blue) so if you missed Crystal Blue completely your character is long gone. Also there is a great deal more territory to explore and people seem to hide in their guild houses a lot. That may be why you cannot find people to play with. I suggest you make a post in this thread (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=32766.0) or at least read through it.
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thanks prolix i have gone thru that thread and as far as my old char goes i try to remake and it says char in data base allready so i am just trying to find out if someone else has that char or it's my old one. (i'm guessin it's me old one) i read in one of these threads that i had to contact a gm in game to find out
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well i have been out of game for a long time i decided to see what is new and dl the game again. now back when i first played this game a person could log in shout hello to all the good folk and get fine greetings from everyone and there was allways people chatting back and forth but since i have been back i log in and shout "greetins good folk o the realm" and i don't get a single hello back :(
Yeah. Too many people do nothing but grind mining or crafting. It's why I want to see the grind factor removed from the game.
I have wandered arouind a bit and i don't here any roll play going on no witty banter on the chat screen and i am wondering what happened ? has the fine roll play community gone the way of the dinosaur ? or am i just logging in at the wrong time. please someone tell me that it's worth my time to get involved in this game again.
RP is still in PlaneShift but it's becoming harder to find. I won't give advice on where best to find RP, because frankly I'm not sure I know the best way to find it. The tavern is probably the best place but it's not at all reliable. (It was once a place where you could always go to find RP, but no longer.) The best idea is probably to look at when RP events are scheduled. (Player-run events, not GM events.)
Btw, if you were a Molecular Blue player, then you should be able to get a ring of eternity.
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Btw, if you were a Molecular Blue player, then you should be able to get a ring of eternity.
it is ring of the past, and it is only for those that are using the same name/account as i understand as they did in MB
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i am using the same name and account but my old char isnt there that's why i put in a petition.
it has been so long i completly forgot about that ring ;D
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i am using the same name and account but my old char isnt there that's why i put in a petition.
it has been so long i completly forgot about that ring ;D
I'm glad to have helped. :)
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Rumblebelly!!!! A great big wibble, old friend! :D
Heh, yes if the last time you played was MB, I suspect it is quite a culture shock to come back now. The days of world chat are long gone...after all the world is so much bigger now. Things are much more localized. The rest of us have had a long time to get used to this. And since the world's increase in size is much bigger than the increase in population...that means a lot less density. Nowadays you have to go looking for some good RP. And even then it's hit and miss. You just have to shift your thinking a bit. People are a lot more solitary these days I think, or at least in their own small groups. Back then we could be on our own crystal hunting and still be in "touch" with the entire community. That's just not as feasible any more. A world chat now would be a bit chaotic. I did suggest to do this on the new server but that's up to the devs. The only thing close nowadays is guild chat (so if you're interested in joining a guild, look me up ;) ).
I hope to see you around in game, Rumble. We can catch up. (I hope you remember me ;) ).
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well i have been out of game for a long time i decided to see what is new and dl the game again. now back when i first played this game a person could log in shout hello to all the good folk and get fine greetings from everyone and there was allways people chatting back and forth but since i have been back i log in and shout "greetins good folk o the realm" and i don't get a single hello back :(
I have wandered arouind a bit and i don't here any roll play going on no witty banter on the chat screen and i am wondering what happened ? has the fine roll play community gone the way of the dinosaur ? or am i just logging in at the wrong time. please someone tell me that it's worth my time to get involved in this game again.
Now on a diff subject i sent a petition to a gm regarding my old char and i havent heard enything yet. how long does it usually take ? do i have to be in game for a gm to help me or can they just message me or email me.
Actually this brings up a valid point. GM's don't have a way to "update" a petition, only close it when it is solved. So, most of the times, even though your petition appears to be untouched, we're actually waiting for you to be online to discuss. If it involves other players as well, it takes even longer.
To reach the GM team out of the game, join IRC on irc.freenode.net and /join #planeshift-gmtalk
Do not idle in the channel please, only join in if there is a problem.
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does that mean it only gets assigned when it is closed? Having it marked as assigned is an update so at least you have a name of someone to try and contact.
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does that mean it only gets assigned when it is closed? Having it marked as assigned is an update so at least you have a name of someone to try and contact.
being assigned means a gm is trying to work on that petition and may try to contact you.
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I assign it to me when I work on it, then pass back to the main queue if not solved by the time I log off. There is a protocol to signal if it's been reviewed or not or how to escalate it to a higher level if needed, so that's not a big concern.
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That is what I thought then.
GM's don't have a way to "update" a petition
is a little misleading. I imagine you meant that you cannot alter the text of the petition until you close it by adding the resolution. Perhaps there is already a feature request on the tracker about this, if not might be worth making one. Ah yes, Here it is (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/flyspray/index.php?&do=details&task_id=711)
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Yes, that's what I meant. I found that Feature Request some time ago as well so I didn't enter a new one.
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well i have been out of game for a long time i decided to see what is new and dl the game again. now back when i first played this game a person could log in shout hello to all the good folk and get fine greetings from everyone and there was allways people chatting back and forth but since i have been back i log in and shout "greetins good folk o the realm" and i don't get a single hello back :(
Yeah. Too many people do nothing but grind mining or crafting. It's why I want to see the grind factor removed from the game.
Let me paraphrase Zanzibar: "I am a Cper who wants the GAME removed from the game."
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well i have been out of game for a long time i decided to see what is new and dl the game again. now back when i first played this game a person could log in shout hello to all the good folk and get fine greetings from everyone and there was allways people chatting back and forth but since i have been back i log in and shout "greetins good folk o the realm" and i don't get a single hello back :(
Yeah. Too many people do nothing but grind mining or crafting. It's why I want to see the grind factor removed from the game.
Let me paraphrase Zanzibar: "I am a Cper who wants the GAME removed from the game."
Not only are you putting words in my mouth, but you found a very insulting way to do it.
I'm surprised you think PlaneShift is nothing but grinding, especially since you're on the settings team.
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RP is a part of the game... but there is actually a game here to be played. You could just as easily "grind" quests as you can crafting, mining, combat, etc. Believe it or not, people find the "game" fun too... not just sitting around BSing over Red Liquor at Kada's...
Now, could things be made more enjoyable or less tedious... sure... but the "grind" as you put it will always be there in one form or another.
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RP is a part of the game... but there is actually a game here to be played. You could just as easily "grind" quests as you can crafting, mining, combat, etc. Believe it or not, people find the "game" fun too... not just sitting around BSing over Red Liquor at Kada's...
Now, could things be made more enjoyable or less tedious... sure... but the "grind" as you put it will always be there in one form or another.
Let's be clear though - you could go beyond taking the grind factor out of PlaneShift and remove all leveling entirely. There would still be a game to play.
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What would constitute the "game" though? I think it is interesting that Xillix said that the way they did. I do find the game fun. Part of the reason I find it fun is because just about everyone I run into will act in character, at least in the simplest manner possible. But the game itself, even if nobody did that, is still interesting. Its not nearly as bad as most people make out, and more balanced than it used to be.
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@Zanzibar... I completely and totally disagree with you. If you remove all aspects of the game that deal with achieving something... aka leveling... you no longer have a game at all. You have a really pretty 3D chat engine.
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Lets face it, it must be difficult for the 'RPers' amongst us. I mean they have to watch day in and day out as players log in and play the game and enjoy themselves. They watch as the people that 'grind' enjoy the fruits of their toil by having abilities the 'RPers' dont have. And what must be worse for the 'RPers' is when they see players 'Grinding' AND 'RPing' :o Surely this can not be possible.... Can it??
/set sarcasm off
*I actualy just wrote a whole speach here about the insessant whining from the people that call them selves RPers, but dont actualy play the game to RP anything more than godmodding and BS and try their hardest to con the real players of PS, but i decided to remove it as i know its wasted in these forums and would only give fire to the trolls.*
:oops: Too late...
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After saying that the hundreds of hours of work people have done (and inevitably will have to do to perfect the systems) should simply be removed to promote YOUR OWN PERSONAL (remember you don't speak for a radical group of people, just yourself) view of how the game should go, the fact that you can even propose that what I said was an insult is fairly laughable.
I've appreciated your efforts to try to turn away from negative commentary, but you vacillate rampantly from negative unhelpful commentary to a calmer analysis and have really proposed little to advance the game in your 6k plus posts.
I'm asking you nicely again, turn your critical eye inward and see if you can't do something more creative than critical.
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@Zanzibar... I completely and totally disagree with you. If you remove all aspects of the game that deal with achieving something... aka leveling... you no longer have a game at all. You have a really pretty 3D chat engine.
There are plenty of things to achieve that don't include leveling.
Lets face it, it must be difficult for the 'RPers' amongst us. I mean they have to watch day in and day out as players log in and play the game and enjoy themselves. They watch as the people that 'grind' enjoy the fruits of their toil by having abilities the 'RPers' dont have. And what must be worse for the 'RPers' is when they see players 'Grinding' AND 'RPing' :o Surely this can not be possible.... Can it??
Your tone is very confrontational Hanix. As guild leader of the Warriors, I know you have a different perspective on things, but I think we should be respectful of all styles of play. And even if we can't do that, we should at least be respectful of each other and allow others to have opinions that differ from our own.
Plenty of roleplayers level. I'm one of them.
After saying that the hundreds of hours of work people have done (and inevitably will have to do to perfect the systems) should simply be removed to promote YOUR OWN PERSONAL (remember you don't speak for a radical group of people, just yourself) view of how the game should go, the fact that you can even propose that what I said was an insult is fairly laughable.
I've appreciated your efforts to try to turn away from negative commentary, but you vacillate rampantly from negative unhelpful commentary to a calmer analysis and have really proposed little to advance the game in your 6k plus posts.
I'm asking you nicely again, turn your critical eye inward and see if you can't do something more creative than critical.
Yet again, you come out swinging and accuse me of saying things I haven't said.
I haven't been negative about the leveling aspect of planeshift. I've been positive about the settings and roleplay aspect. I think PlaneShift is SO GOOD that you could take leveling out and it would still be a good game! Sheesh. It's like you're looking for reasons to attack me. I've been incredibly positive, even as I'm being attacked by a staff member.
As far as my post count goes, I've been here a while. And on other forums, 6k isn't a lot of posts, especially when you're active in guilds, helping new players, engaging in discussions (both fun and serious), etcetera.
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There are plenty of things to achieve that don't include leveling.
But what, exactly, are they? Maybe this thread is not the best place for an answer to that. But I am sincere in asking.
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There are plenty of things to achieve that don't include leveling.
But what, exactly, are they? Maybe this thread is not the best place for an answer to that. But I am sincere in asking.
Quests, guilds, exploration, roleplay events, pvp, and so on.
Keep in mind that by removing leveling, people may actually mean making it easy to max out, or changing character generation so that levels are set upon character creation, etc etc. My main point is that PlaneShift is more than killing rogues and waiting for them to respawn so that you can kill them again, and it's more than moving iron between the furnace and the tank over and over again.
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Quests, guilds, exploration, roleplay events, pvp, and so on.
With the exception of roleplay, these all depend on or are affected by the skill levels of the character.
The monsters at this time don't do much. But I don't think anybody has called them finished.
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There are plenty of things to achieve that don't include leveling.
But what, exactly, are they? Maybe this thread is not the best place for an answer to that. But I am sincere in asking.
Quests, guilds, exploration, roleplay events, pvp, and so on.
Keep in mind that by removing leveling, people may actually mean making it easy to max out, or changing character generation so that levels are set upon character creation, etc etc. My main point is that PlaneShift is more than killing rogues and waiting for them to respawn so that you can kill them again, and it's more than moving iron between the furnace and the tank over and over again.
That is why using terms like "grinding" without further explanation can be misleading. Specific suggestions are easier to assess.
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@zanzibar... I'm sorry, but you are looking for reasons to be insulted here. You are not being "attacked by a staff member". I can't see where Xillix is off-the-mark in regards to your general style of commenting. You make a broad statement... which tends to be either too vague to be useful, or else inflammatory... then when people start to criticize it... you either claim that you are having words put in your mouth, that you are being attacked unfairly, or you just ignore the comments that you don't feel like addressing.
Back to your statement of PS being SOO GOOD that you could remove all leveling and still have a game... how? Get rid of stats, trainers, currency, items... and what is left? Hrm... you can go talk to NPCs... and read books... but that doesn't make a game. You can sit around and chat with people IC... great... but that also isn't a game. You can make a game of it, but that is not the same thing. Removing leveling means removing levels. You cannot "max out" if there are no levels. And it is complete BS for people to simply select the level you want to play at CC. Starting levels need some variation... but there needs to be something to achieve or it is not a "game".
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Play the victim of the evil overlord if you want, I doubt anyone's buying it.
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There are plenty of things to achieve that don't include leveling.
But what, exactly, are they? Maybe this thread is not the best place for an answer to that. But I am sincere in asking.
Quests, guilds, exploration, roleplay events, pvp, and so on.
Keep in mind that by removing leveling, people may actually mean making it easy to max out, or changing character generation so that levels are set upon character creation, etc etc. My main point is that PlaneShift is more than killing rogues and waiting for them to respawn so that you can kill them again, and it's more than moving iron between the furnace and the tank over and over again.
That is why using terms like "grinding" without further explanation can be misleading. Specific suggestions are easier to assess.
I've made specific suggestions about it in the past. I don't think it was so misleading as to warrant the reaction it got, but I'll follow your advice.
@zanzibar... I'm sorry, but you are looking for reasons to be insulted here. You are not being "attacked by a staff member". I can't see where Xillix is off-the-mark in regards to your general style of commenting. You make a broad statement... which tends to be either too vague to be useful, or else inflammatory... then when people start to criticize it... you either claim that you are having words put in your mouth, that you are being attacked unfairly, or you just ignore the comments that you don't feel like addressing.
Back to your statement of PS being SOO GOOD that you could remove all leveling and still have a game... how? Get rid of stats, trainers, currency, items... and what is left? Hrm... you can go talk to NPCs... and read books... but that doesn't make a game. You can sit around and chat with people IC... great... but that also isn't a game. You can make a game of it, but that is not the same thing. Removing leveling means removing levels. You cannot "max out" if there are no levels. And it is complete BS for people to simply select the level you want to play at CC. Starting levels need some variation... but there needs to be something to achieve or it is not a "game".
I'm just reading what's posted. And you can still have levels while also removing leveling. One way to do it is to have levels set upon character creation. Under the Moon once proposed this, I believe.
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Without some system of leveling there is not any game. Nobody has proposed a successful different system because it does not exist. The monsters will do more in the future and this will affect the "grind", for now they respawn in the same place and display little initiative.
The term RPG with regards to games was coined to describe games where your characters choices affect various outcomes in the storyline. Right there, is the factions system. Anything other than that is, in game terms, acting, not roleplaying.
The character creation process could be filled out a bit to add more choices that would let you produce a range of starting characters. But I don't think that anyone should hold their breath for a generation system that is going to let you created maxed characters and play them.
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In all fairness, there are other ways. One ways would be to substitute leveling with items. You become more powerful as you get better armor and weapons. Another way to do it would be to base the game entirely on player skill rather than character skill. Another way to do it would be to require teamwork when taking down more powerful enemies.
I'm not saying that any of these would be better than what we currently have, but they are possible.
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Then why don't we focus on finding a system that is better than the current one before we suggest that it be removed?
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I kind of like deus ex machina whereby some random-ish algorithm sets your stats arbitrarily at erratic intervals.
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I think, imho, the difference between rp then and now is rp it more about the settings then it is about the characters that play. So the idea of a gathering between two friends to gossip is not as appealing as it once was. Now it is about the game. Is that bad or good, wrong or right? Neither. It just means a player must know the settings very well now to role play now.
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That's only true if rpers are actively POLICING other players' knowledge of the settings mathy.
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Then why don't we focus on finding a system that is better than the current one before we suggest that it be removed?
I don't believe I suggested that leveling be removed. All I suggested before someone blew up at me was that the grind is removed. What I said was this:
"Yeah. Too many people do nothing but grind mining or crafting. It's why I want to see the grind factor removed from the game."
Basically, I want to see leveling be easier, more fun, and smoother. I think that if it was easier for people to max out, then people would generally spend less time leveling and more time interacting with other players. My comment wasn't about taking leveling out of the game.
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If you allow people to set levels at CC to be whatever their heart desires... then I see very little point in having levels at all. Nothing is going to set you apart from anyone else... there is no goal left to achieve... there is nowhere to go with your character. Questing is fun... sure... but outside of gaining access to a couple of different areas... and getting to know the settings better... that doesn't make PS a game. Just like RP, it is an aspect of the game... and piece... a part... but taken by itself... is not enough to be a "game".
To be fair, RP then vs now... that was not a game. RP in and of itself is not a game. This is what causes so much animosity between different factions here in PS. Players can use this game to RP and chit-chat with friends... to leave the RL behind and have grand adventures... or just to interact with others in general. These are fine uses of the game, but they do not make PS a game. PS is a game that encourages you to RP... to interact with others... but the interaction itself is not a game.
I have seen people use common things to put their hair up... like a pen or pencil. Imagine that you use a pen/pencil all the time for this purpose... and only rarely, if ever, as a writing implement. Well, the place you normally get your pens comes out with a bigger/better pen that looks really cool, and you want to continue to use it put your hair up. However, it just doesn't quite work as well... so you might suggest they take the clip off... or put a cap on instead of the clicking button so you stop getting ink on your scalp. After all, they didn't need those things before, and worked so much better to hold your hair up than this new design. This is a lot of how I see the view of PS from a lot of people who have been around for a while. It is not wrong, it is not bad. However, I think that a lot of people misunderstand the purpose of the game, just as the example misunderstands the point of a writing implement.
For the record, this is not an attempt to be snarky... :)
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I think, imho, the difference between rp then and now is rp it more about the settings then it is about the characters that play. So the idea of a gathering between two friends to gossip is not as appealing as it once was. Now it is about the game. Is that bad or good, wrong or right? Neither. It just means a player must know the settings very well now to role play now.
That's only true if rpers are actively POLICING other players' knowledge of the settings mathy.
I ask you Xillix is this how you want role to be? Again I said it is not right or wrong. I am just asking. Thank you.
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@Mathy... I think that what Xillix is saying... is that RP is only required to be settings-focused if someone is actively trying to bring the topic around to settings. I think that a lot of people are so concerned with IC vs OOC that if you don't have at least some mention of a "settings-related topic"... you must be OOC... and the policing like this is what I got tired of... and the reason I spend, what little time I currently have to play, on Ezpcusa instead of Laanx.
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I don't believe I suggested that leveling be removed. All I suggested before someone blew up at me was that the grind is removed.
Which part was me blowing up? Me calling you a cper who wants the grind removed? Me saying that the fact that you felt insulted by my saying so was "laughable?" Seriously man, I don't see how you think this is not a transparent attempt to play the victim of the evil dev. At no point did my temper raise, I am so used to this tired line of argumentation coming strictly from you that it doesn't phase me anymore. What got me to post was you trying to convince rumblebelly that the REASON no one said hello to him was CLEARLY because your doggerel was the truth of the universe.
If there is a big change in how the community acts now it is this in my view: Players used to take more responsibility for the in game experience than they do today. You can look to myself, proglin, hanix, sangwa, zanzibar, kerol, farren, satanye, zorbels, anfa, karyuu, khado, utm, and dozens of other examples that either pre-date my time or played concurrently with me for proof. I keep saying that I take responsibility for hiring several of these people to help make the game, but the rest of the rper crowd has to take their share of the responsibility for what the in game community has become and stop foisting the problems of the in game experience on the fact that we added more content and allowed people to become more powerful in game.
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I don't believe I suggested that leveling be removed. All I suggested before someone blew up at me was that the grind is removed. What I said was this:
"Yeah. Too many people do nothing but grind mining or crafting. It's why I want to see the grind factor removed from the game."
Basically, I want to see leveling be easier, more fun, and smoother. I think that if it was easier for people to max out, then people would generally spend less time leveling and more time interacting with other players. My comment wasn't about taking leveling out of the game.
The problem with this is it all has to do with YOU. YOU see in YOUR opinion that too many people do nothing but grind mining and craft. YOU want the grind removed because YOU are personally offended by this (keep in mind that this is the impression you are giving by your incessant whining). YOU think that people would want to spend more time interacting if the grind were lessened. This all has to do with YOU....in a game full of tons of other people who each enjoy the game differently.
Well my question to YOU, Zanzibar, is what about the people who enjoy the grind? Should they have their challenge taken away because YOU are so personally offended by the current system?
My advice: Get over YOURSELF.
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What got me to post was you trying to convince rumblebelly that the REASON no one said hello to him was CLEARLY because your doggerel was the truth of the universe.
I simply gave him the most likely explanation for what happened.
If there is a big change in how the community acts now it is this in my view: Players used to take more responsibility for the in game experience than they do today. You can look to myself, proglin, hanix, sangwa, zanzibar, kerol, farren, satanye, zorbels, anfa, karyuu, khado, utm, and dozens of other examples that either pre-date my time or played concurrently with me for proof. I keep saying that I take responsibility for hiring several of these people to help make the game, but the rest of the rper crowd has to take their share of the responsibility for what the in game community has become and stop foisting the problems of the in game experience on the fact that we added more content and allowed people to become more powerful in game.
I don't see anyone complaining about the addition of new content and new opportunities. In fact I think most people were happy that new levels were opened up, since there was much demand for it before they were implemented. Frankly, you can't say people aren't "taking responsibility" when they're actively involved in guilds, roleplays, and creating RP opportunities for other players. In all honesty though I don't see how this connects to anything?
I don't believe I suggested that leveling be removed. All I suggested before someone blew up at me was that the grind is removed. What I said was this:
"Yeah. Too many people do nothing but grind mining or crafting. It's why I want to see the grind factor removed from the game."
Basically, I want to see leveling be easier, more fun, and smoother. I think that if it was easier for people to max out, then people would generally spend less time leveling and more time interacting with other players. My comment wasn't about taking leveling out of the game.
The problem with this is it all has to do with YOU. YOU see in YOUR opinion that too many people do nothing but grind mining and craft. YOU want the grind removed because YOU are personally offended by this (keep in mind that this is the impression you are giving by your incessant whining). YOU think that people would want to spend more time interacting if the grind were lessened. This all has to do with YOU....in a game full of tons of other people who each enjoy the game differently.
Well my question to YOU, Zanzibar, is what about the people who enjoy the grind? Should they have their challenge taken away because YOU are so personally offended by the current system?
My advice: Get over YOURSELF.
I'm not offended by grinding, I just think PlaneShift would be better if leveling was more fun. And if people are quiet at Harnquist, it's because they're either working on crafting or they're busy with guildchat. And yes, I think that people would interact with other players more often if it was easier to max out. This is all just common sense to anyone who actually plays the game - why are you so angry about it?
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Then why don't we focus on finding a system that is better than the current one before we suggest that it be removed?
Exactly. And any other system needs to be designed to fit into the current morass of code. Its not enough to just say that there is another way. There is always another way. But is there another way that will mesh with the existing code and be obviously and fundamentally better than the system that is in place? Which is why I say, it does not exist. If it did, that would mean that someone had proposed an alternative, detailed system that worked and took all of the current code into account in that proposal.
If you want a new system, then you need to run a server, prototype it in the code, and then test the hell out of the thing. The only thing that will ever be convincing in this argument is detailed data from a working prototype of such a system. Saying, it isn't good change it, is not enough when we are talking about the entire system underlying character progression. Think about the amount of effort and time that has gone into the current system.
The only conclusion that makes any sense here is that the current system, incompleteness aside, is the good system. There is nothing in the current system that hobbles acting unless the player themselves allows it to. If it really comes down to your imagination, then the current system is fine.
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I am not angry and I don't think Anumesa is.
I just think you are flatly wrong.
I think you are guilty of all you've accused me of.
I think you make assertions as though they are common knowledge and assume against all evidence that everyone agrees with you.
I think you enjoy playing the victim.
I think you are a harm to my personal experience as a developer.
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I am not angry.
I'm glad to hear that! Sometimes it's easy to get the wrong impression.
I just think you are flatly wrong.
I think you are guilty of all you've accused me of.
I think you make assertions as though they are common knowledge and assume against all evidence that everyone agrees with you.
I think you enjoy playing the victim.
I think you are a harm to my personal experience as a developer.
I'll have to go through the thread again to see what I've accused you of. I do believe that you've misunderstood what my beliefs and opinions are, so I'm not terribly surprised if you think I'm "flatly wrong" about things. I have asserted that certain things are common knowledge, but only because I believe them to be so. I'm more than willing to reexamine any beliefs I have which someone else thinks are in error, but it seems like the biggest challenge right now is to inform others on what my beliefs actually are since there seems to be a lot of false perceptions flying around. As far as playing the victim goes, you'll have to assume that I'm being sincere and I'll have to assume that it wasn't your intent to cause offense or do harm.
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I'll have to go through the thread again to see what I've accused you of. I do believe that you've misunderstood what my beliefs and opinions are, so I'm not terribly surprised if you think I'm "flatly wrong" about things. I have asserted that certain things are common knowledge, but only because I believe them to be so. I'm more than willing to reexamine any beliefs I have which someone else thinks are in error, but it seems like the biggest challenge right now is to inform others on what my beliefs actually are since there seems to be a lot of false perceptions flying around. As far as playing the victim goes, you'll have to assume that I'm being sincere and I'll have to assume that it wasn't your intent to cause offense or do harm.
Ok, just do me a favor here. Reread what you just wrote (if you feel up to a challenge then reread ALL your posts in this thread) and pick out how many times you have said "I". If that number is more then 4 then you are in complete and total fail.
Oh and This is all just common sense to anyone who actually plays the game - why are you so angry about it?
does -this- assertion come from Zanzibar lala land as well? Because as you have stated before, if your so-called "common knowledge" is subjective to your beliefs..meaning that it is highly (and most likely completely) plausible that it, in fact, is NOT common knowledge at all...merely the result of your affinity towards being a pain-in-the-hiney (PITH).
Also, this is not me being angry. In fact I am not angry at all..Since you have stated that you are more than willing to reexamine any beliefs...which someone else thinks are in error
I, and as far as i can tell most other posters who are "hating on you" as well, are merely trying to get you to do so :)
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I'll have to go through the thread again to see what I've accused you of. I do believe that you've misunderstood what my beliefs and opinions are, so I'm not terribly surprised if you think I'm "flatly wrong" about things. I have asserted that certain things are common knowledge, but only because I believe them to be so. I'm more than willing to reexamine any beliefs I have which someone else thinks are in error, but it seems like the biggest challenge right now is to inform others on what my beliefs actually are since there seems to be a lot of false perceptions flying around. As far as playing the victim goes, you'll have to assume that I'm being sincere and I'll have to assume that it wasn't your intent to cause offense or do harm.
Ok, just do me a favor here. Reread what you just wrote (if you feel up to a challenge then reread ALL your posts in this thread) and pick out how many times you have said "I". If that number is more then 4 then you are in complete and total fail.
Xillix's comments were directed to me personally.
Oh and This is all just common sense to anyone who actually plays the game - why are you so angry about it?
does -this- assertion come from Zanzibar lala land as well? Because as you have stated before, if your so-called "common knowledge" is subjective to your beliefs..meaning that it is highly (and most likely completely) plausible that it, in fact, is NOT common knowledge at all...merely the result of your affinity towards being a pain-in-the-hiney (PITH).
Also, this is not me being angry. In fact I am not angry at all..Since you have stated that you are more than willing to reexamine any beliefs...which someone else thinks are in error
I am merely trying to get you to do so :)
Support your arguments then.
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Nothing on a forum is directed to anyone personally unless they know the identity of the poster in real life. It would be more precise to say that it was directed at your comments. Because that is the only way that we know you. I am sure that many are satisfied with that arrangement. Nothing is personal up here, to take it so is an incorrect response. If one creates an identity for oneself and then uses people's responses to somehow justify a spectre of persecution... Well, that might be what Xillix was talking about in the first place.
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Regarding my earlier assertion... we are now on the "you completely misunderstood what I was saying" phase of this zanzibar discussion...
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Regarding my earlier assertion... we are now on the "you completely misunderstood what I was saying" phase of this zanzibar discussion...
Hopefully people now understand what I intended to say, and will be less quick to judge in the future.
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Omg, nothing changes up here. Zanzi, you just ain't weird enough to pick on for very long.
I know, lets talk about that "encrusted ulbernaut" thing in, umm ... Bilbous' description from a long time ago.
Boy, was that out of setting! Hahahaha! I loved it...
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@Zanzibar... I wish that could be true. However, just like almost every other discussion I have had with you... well... this IS just like every other discussion I have had with you... it never goes anywhere. Anyone who brings a valid argument either is "putting words in your mouth"... "misunderstanding what you said"... or is getting ignored... although I admit I did forget a response... that that is to ask for more information or tell them to prove their arguments to you. Seriously... pick a topic... re-read it... compare it to any other... they all end up the same... you are the poor victim that gets picked on and nobody understands that you really just want to offer your opinions to help this wonderful game. Yeah... whatever. It is no wonder you have so many posts... :(
Oh well... I guess I am like most here... tired of your crap... but I am finding almost impossible to get upset/angry about things... and also playing a new game predicting what your next responses are going to be... and my batting average is pretty good... :)
BTW... this is plain and simple fact... not an attack... not blowing up at you... not even making fun of you... well... maybe a little on that last one...
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@Zanzibar... I wish that could be true. However, just like almost every other discussion I have had with you... well... this IS just like every other discussion I have had with you... it never goes anywhere. Anyone who brings a valid argument either is "putting words in your mouth"... "misunderstanding what you said"... or is getting ignored... although I admit I did forget a response... that that is to ask for more information or tell them to prove their arguments to you. Seriously... pick a topic... re-read it... compare it to any other... they all end up the same... you are the poor victim that gets picked on and nobody understands that you really just want to offer your opinions to help this wonderful game. Yeah... whatever. It is no wonder you have so many posts... :(
Oh well... I guess I am like most here... tired of your crap... but I am finding almost impossible to get upset/angry about things... and also playing a new game predicting what your next responses are going to be... and my batting average is pretty good... :)
BTW... this is plain and simple fact... not an attack... not blowing up at you... not even making fun of you... well... maybe a little on that last one...
I'm less interested in proving who's right and I'm more interested in simply getting along with people. If it seems like I'm ignoring someone, then I'm simply trying to protect the peace.
With arguments, it's hard to argue anything unless someone states their position. If someone says I'm wrong about something, that's great. But unless they tell me why they think I'm wrong, there isn't anything for me to really respond to. And if my reason for having an opinion is because of personal experience, there's nothing for them to really respond to either. The best they can do is share their own personal experiences. So it might seem like nothing gets accomplished when people always attack, never defend.
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I agree with what Zanzibar said about grinding. Removing the grinding isn't removing the game from the game. Grinding is doing dull and repetitive tasks over and over to get a more experienced character. Dull parts shouldn't be part of any game, or at least kept to a minimum. Zanzibar suggested ways to progress should primarily come from other sources like questing, teamwork, items and increasing player skills. Take it as a compliment. Clearly, the other parts of the game are good enough now to ease down on grinding.
Also, I don't think the divide between the roleplayers and the powerlevelers is so rigid as often suggested. There are plenty of people who enjoy leveling and also stay in character. Of people who primarily enjoy haning out in the tavern but don't mind to hunt a few beasties now and than.
And yes, I do think calling Zanzi a Cper (complaint player) is pretty offensive. As is using the staw man approach. Zanzi never said he is against leveling, he said he is against grinding, which is not the same. I can't believe this discussion is really happening; we just had a thread about how to argue in a mature way (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=34780.0). A sad display indeed, to quote the topic.
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I'm ignoring all the attempts at hijacking this thread, and let's try to focus on Rumblebelly's concern.
"If you want to start RPing again, try spending some time in the Hydlaa Tavern - it's usually the best place to get RPers talking".
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Omg, nothing changes up here. Zanzi, you just ain't weird enough to pick on for very long.
I know, lets talk about that "encrusted ulbernaut" thing in, umm ... Bilbous' description from a long time ago.
Boy, was that out of setting! Hahahaha! I loved it...
Hey I resemble that comment. Who ever said that being a crackpot was out of settings anyway?
Thanks for remembering me, the story itself was only out of setting once they decided what the settings were.
Now that was role play at its finest if I do say so (somewhat facetiously) myself.
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http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=34810.msg400303#msg400303
What happened to this idea?
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@Mathy... um... out of sight, out of mind?
@hitancrias... I don't know Zanzibar the person, or Zanzibar the in-game character... but Zanzibar the forum poster is a CPer. Topic after topic after topic is the same thing. I'm not the only one who sees it, or the only one who is too tired of it to be offended anymore. Sad, but true. If he is offended, maybe that should be a hint.
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/me munches popcorn thoughtfully *
So, how 'bout them Red Sox?
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Another 5 page thread on how to find RP ... YAY! Here is an idea. Get off the forums and get into the game ... put HALF as much energy into RP'ing as you do talking about people NOT RP'ing.
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@hitancrias... I don't know Zanzibar the person, or Zanzibar the in-game character... but Zanzibar the forum poster is a CPer. Topic after topic after topic is the same thing. I'm not the only one who sees it, or the only one who is too tired of it to be offended anymore. Sad, but true. If he is offended, maybe that should be a hint.
Calling somebody a CPer is just as bad as calling somebody an idiot. It's always offensive no matter if it's 'true' or not. It's a personal attack in which you disqualify a person (or a forum poster if you want to make that distinction) rather than his arguments.
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No argument was made.
When the terms of the argument were settled after the fact here's what came out: "The game should be more fun." <-- I just stuck those words in your mouth.
My answer: No sh*t.
Now DO something.
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Locking.