PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Phinehas on March 23, 2009, 12:39:33 pm
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How is the community these days? Are people still around? Is there anything meaningful going on in the way of RP? Replies from people who I've known or who've known me would be particularly appreciated, though anyone with an opinion on the current state of the community is welcome(especially if comparing it with previous or future states).
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Only been around for just over 4 years but imho the community is the same as it ever was, sure some people have moved on, some have even returned and there are a lot of newcomers but its still basically the same, I still have a wide variety of people I know going all the way back to when I first started.
Still have the naysayers and doom merchants but ultimately the game is healthier than ever with a lot more rp going on than the oocchat/rathunt it was when CB first came out.
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There is absolutely no one like you Phinehas. That might answer your question. Still, there are the good and not so good lurking. I have been too busy in real life to be involved too much in anything, though I do pop ingame every so often to mess up some 'evil mastermind's' plan or another. It is still fun for me when I have the time. When things get a little less hectic here in the land of real life, we will see what happens.
As always, there is too much digging going on ingame. Money and training still rule.
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Hey, Phin 0/
Go away.
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Well I am here.
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Are people still around?
No, there are no people around.
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huhu phin,
dunno if you remember me but im quite long around with ps.
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Hi there!
The game feels a lot different than it did in 2007. I'm not sure what changed, but it feels like people are more "spread out".
The Dark Empire guild is in a bit of an interesting state... Sangwa quit, and Nurahk took over but then disappeared, so now Donari is trying to claim leadership. I'm staying at the sidelines since my current RP characters serve but don't lead.
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I hear they have an 'anything goes' server these days though this could just be an insidious lie.
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Hmm... well, doesn't sound like too much has changed... That's sad... And here I was getting all nostalgic and crap. Ah well, I guess I'll just have to hunt you down one at a time and say hi when I'm in the mood as opposed to attempting to "play the game" again. If RP begins to dominate the realm once more, someone had better hunt me down and drag me back, kicking and screaming even.
@Parallo: I see how it is... I'm gone for a while and you get all independent and revolutionary and what-not...
@Mooney: Awww... Heh. My most recent outlet for my need to RP has been by starting a D&D group and DMing it. It's quite amusing.
@Everyone else: Thanks for the replies everyone. You gave me a good feel for how things are going.
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Hmm... well, doesn't sound like too much has changed... That's sad...
Phinehas, the check is in the mail. bro'. And, one more slogan: you've got to be in it to win it. ;D
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@Parallo: I see how it is... I'm gone for a while and you get all independent and revolutionary and what-not...
An absent king cannot expect loyalty from a bored vassel.
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Hi Phin :) ltns. It's cool to see familiar faces stil,l even after all this time.
Vengie occasionally gives me little updates about goings-on in Planeshift, but I never really check back here anymore. After all, if zanzibar is still here, it can't be any better, can it? :) (Just kidding zan, don't throw your twisted panties at me!)
Good to see the place is still alive though, at least. The reason I visited today was because somebody showed me a game called Mortal, and it reminded me of Planeshift. Mostly in that the movement looks kind of awkward and clunky... but I'm sure that's been improved since half a decade ago when I last played. :)
Ah well, time to drift back to Whirled again. See you all in a couple of years as usual! ;)
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Wow, we have Phinehas and Moogie responding in the same thread! Quickly, capture this moment! :D
Phinehas, you better get back sometime and spread your awesomeness yet again ;)
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/me latches onto Moogie and doesn't let go.
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/me latches onto Karyuu and doesn't let go.
(This must look weird by now)
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The next version of PlaneShift will apparently be MB again. (Moog's Back.)
You've been gone for a while. Like you said when you quit the game, the place is always changing with new faces coming in and out. But thanks for showing some things don't change. ;) Cya sometime.
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The people change in an evoloutionary cycle, quite interesting if you step back from it. A replication of how the world changes in a watered down sense. I suspect Karyuu could start playing as her Karyuu character with the majority of players not bowing down and revering her like they should ;op
Wonderful how the world works, and PS is a nice microcosm.
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Moogie: Please check in more often.
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The people change in an evoloutionary cycle, quite interesting if you step back from it. A replication of how the world changes in a watered down sense. I suspect Karyuu could start playing as her Karyuu character with the majority of players not bowing down and revering her like they should ;op
Wonderful how the world works, and PS is a nice microcosm.
That's a very positive spin, don't you think? I can't entirely agree.
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Yeah... tempting to come back and not be hailed as incredibly awesome, except I'm afraid I'll always be recognized for what I am - better than most people :)
Communities remain basically the same - the only change is in their fluctuating size, and therefore the volume of their obnoxious little voices. There are the same disgruntled oldbies, though they may now have different names, the same clueless newbies with their same questions and requests, the same emotionally unattached and same hot-blooded developers, the militant moderators, the melodramatic voices of dissent, the weird let's-all-be-friends hippies, all of them. And here's the kick: it's not special to any one community. What happens when you step back from it, Pizik, is that you realize how very unspecial this cycle really is, and how dreadfully boring it is to witness it on a miniature scale over and over again. The people in the cycle think it's awfully exciting, of course, and that they're witnessing something wonderful that must be noted and remembered. Except they're not, and it's not.
This pessimistic spin brought to you by The Association Of People Who Tire Of Other People. :D
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That may be true, but I also think that changes to the game itself can lead to changes in the community and the community culture. When changes were made to PvP to make it less of an arcade game, we saw an exodus of players. It might have been a small exodus, but it was definitely in response to changes to the game. I think the developers have a lot more power over the face of the player community than they think.
Economics students will love this post.
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Well, the developers know how much power they have over the community - some more than others. (When I was involved there was a wide gap between the team members who cared not at all about this, and cared too much. I suspect that this gap still exists to some degree.) What would make PlaneShift an interesting object of observation long-term, is the fact that no one knows exactly where it's going. The developers who worked on PS 8 years ago could not have expected it to change the way it already has: features previously
crossed out in bold red being implemented, certain mentalities and attitudes in community leaders being supported, etc. While Luca oversees everything and definitely has a master plan for a general direction, a lot of little things are malleable. Little things that add up.
So if there's an interest in following a real change rather than a cycle, from an outside perspective, that's what I would look at. The rhythmic rise and fall of the community isn't as intriguing.
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Things definitely change around here, and there's some pretty big changes going on too. It just takes time, and most people don't have the patience. I have stopped caring about people leaving a long time ago, I usually don't even read "I'm leaving" threads anymore, because they're always the same. If you don't like stuff, go away and do something you do like. Come back later and check things out. PS'll still be there.
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/me beats Thom off of Karyuu
Mine :P
It's actually really interesting to watch people go through the stages of PS. As time goes on the characters become people and friends. There was a time when Ayshe was nothing more than a name to me, a character who knew a character that my character knew. Now I talk to him quite often and never think of him as an enkidukai. I'm actually in Karyuu's house now and there was a time when she was just a friend of my character (Albeit a very short time, she's a special case).
So yes, the game is fun at times and terrible at others. The community is very much the same... except for maybe the fun part :P But it's the people that make it all worthwhile.
I still have plan to egg Venge's house one day... Only now I plan on bringing Sep, Karyuu, Jose and Link along with me :P
/me goes back to barely lurking
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Does Sep = Seperot?
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Does Sep = Seperot?
Since Waylander is "barely lurking" I hope he doesn't mind I'll answer that question: yes.
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/me is still around too
i may not be as OLD as you guys ;D but i'm getting there :P
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Nope! :P They'll just keep aging, Elvi.
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Those beloved by the gods grow young. Like me.
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Those that are gods, never age. Like me
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Therefore: Parallo is beloved by Neko!
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I was online last night, and two of the names on my buddy list were green. Woo-hoo!
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That's a real accomplishment :p
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I was online last night, and two of the names on my buddy list were green. Woo-hoo!
I'd say that's pretty good!
I'm new, so presumably the people I've met are current players, and I usually hover around two green at a given time.
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you guys are crazy, i have space issues with my buddy list, because i don't want to have to scroll down in order to see all my online friends. :P
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Not very exclusive, eh? Reminds me of Groucho's club.
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Not very exclusive, eh? Reminds me of Groucho's club.
Well I use it more to keep track of enemies than friends.
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Thats what I use the forum member list for.
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I came back to tell you that you suck, Phinehas. Unfortunately, someone else beat me to the necromancy. I must be getting old.
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Given the fact you've been around for quite a number of years now, I'm rather surprised you assume even a possibility of anything changing in here, Phiney. Did you really wish to find the answer, or was it your missing us all (Xalthar in particular) so much that made you finally drop by?
...man, my posting habits sure went down the drain.
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Darklark \o/
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*comes falling down screaming like a madman*
*lands face down on the sidewalk*
Hello
*casually walks off again*
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RAWR. Didn't think I'd see anyone who posted here checking back in on PS. Me included. Bye phin!
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I'm new here. Hi. :D :D :D :D :'(
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Well drop me in a puddle and call me Cyl... if it isn't a bunch of oldbies! Good to see that some of you people are still around, too bad not enough to have a community. If the people who posted in this thread actually played the game regularly I'd probably deem it worthwhile to return.
As for you newbies, get out of my thread... My wrath is still powerful, and I will poke you with my cane.
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Well drop me in a puddle and call me Cyl... if it isn't a bunch of oldbies! Good to see that some of you people are still around, too bad not enough to have a community. If the people who posted in this thread actually played the game regularly I'd probably deem it worthwhile to return.
As for you newbies, get out of my thread... My wrath is still powerful, and I will poke you with my cane.
I thought I remembered you, you're that cranky lemur that sat in the shadowy corners at Kada's aren't you? I wondered where you got off to. :P If I recall you lectured me on proper RPing way back when. At least I'm still RPing in the game. :P Stop waiting for the other old farts to come back in game and just go yourself... It's a fun game still, especially at the Stonehead Tavern. ;)
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Eh thought i posted here already. I don't really play anymore but still lurk the forums (sometimes..). Good to see you haven't dropped off the face of the earth ;D
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Phinehas, please make us all happy and avoid purple fireballs.
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I'm still here, but I don't think Phinehas and I met in game too much.
The community is a bit more vocal than what it used to be in the past, but the voices are more on the forums and less in the game. Everybody has an opinion, very few get involved to make things happen.
RP wise the game is indeed a bit poorer than what it used to be, but folks still enjoy it very much and I saw some very nice initiatives recently. People are making use of game features a lot more than in the past (I think), which is good. I only hope they don't forget to incorporate some RP in it from time to time, to make it a bit more spicy.
There's also a non-RP server now, kind of less populated, which I find quite surprising, but anyway. It's good that it's there and I believe it will grow in time.
Development wise, whoaaaa! Major things have happened since I first started and I'm amazed how well the engine has improved. Reading the history (http://planeshift.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/*checkout*/planeshift/trunk/docs/history.txt) never ceases to amaze me. A lot of new content and quests and crafting opportunities are in, not to mention code changes.
I've seen the rise and fall of the community... about 3 or 4 times already both on the forums and in the game so I can definitely say it is cyclic. Those who fear PS is dying, tough luck. If everyone who thought that was right, then PS must be one hell of a necromancer. Always comes back. Always.
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Well, I think the community has always been vocal. It's just that lately, and this is only my subjective opinion, it seems that a few select issues have drawn the passion of a finite number of community members, and discussions on those issues currently have an enduring nature for whatever reason. Not enduring in the sense that they're cute and cuddly. Enduring in the sense that they don't resolve.
It's really an individual thing. Different people have different thoughts, and they express their thoughts in different ways.
I actually think the community was much more noisy when I was a new player. I've also seen a major decrease in the frequency of personal attacks here, which is something I'm ecstatic about.
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you're that cranky lemur that sat in the shadowy corners at Kada's aren't you?
Ha, that describes Phinny almost perfectly. You forgot the part about him being ancient :P
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*bump*
you're that cranky lemur that sat in the shadowy corners at Kada's aren't you?
Ha, that describes Phinny almost perfectly. You forgot the part about him being ancient :P
Not ancient, darn you! Young! Phinehas is young. He's just emaciated.
It's really an individual thing. Different people have different thoughts, and they express their thoughts in different ways.
I actually think the community was much more noisy when I was a new player. I've also seen a major decrease in the frequency of personal attacks here, which is something I'm ecstatic about.
Well who cares what you think, loser? (sorry, but it was just begging to be said)
That said, if someone wanted to email me when the game mechanics in any way become stable and somewhat tolerable (especially the magic), that'd be great. Not that I'd come back for that, but it'd be worth considering.
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please refrain from such comments like "loser" which usually have the only use of causing flames.
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Eep, I've been reprimanded by an "associate developer".
Welltall, the apology immediately following in parentheses was for those who, unlike Zanzibar, have yet to grow a sense of humor and realize that I was not being serious. In the meantime, if Xordan or Neko have a problem with it, they can let me know.
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Oh snap, Phin. Snap. :thumbup:
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Oh snap, Phin. Snap. :thumbup:
I came back to ask this very important question:
*ahem*
Who are you?
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How is the community these days? Are people still around? Is there anything meaningful going on in the way of RP? Replies from people who I've known or who've known me would be particularly appreciated, though anyone with an opinion on the current state of the community is welcome(especially if comparing it with previous or future states).
Ah!
The people you know did as you, Phin... they got a life :P
Well, glad to see some still pop up now and again.
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Heh heh. Good to see you, CadRipper. Brings back the old days at Kada's.
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Wait, Karyuu, Draklar, Xalthar, Phinehas, *and* CadRipper all in the same thred? Who cares if it was spaced out over 6 months -- I am back for my yearly check-in, haha.
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I am back for my yearly check-in, haha.
Mind if I join?:D Was attacked by nostalgia earlier today soooo.. Came back to check up :D
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Yay! A geezer convention! Free arthritis pills for all!! :)
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Greetings Lord Auran.
:innocent:
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Hey Annah. How are ya? What are you now, like a 1000 in PS gamer years? Die already you fossil ;).
And still hanging with the BO I see? BO sucks eggs man. More so now that I see the princess left and little Sangwa is lording over it. Are they still spewing that honorably evil cock and bull? :)
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Wow, best thread I've seen in awhile...too bad I didn't see it until 8 months after it was started. :P
Great to see names that are blasts from the past. \\o//
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Yep a lot of folks from back in the day when there was no game and yet there was high drama on the forums. But things have changed a lot it seems. Hydlaa only had like 5 posts in 3 days! The forums are deader than a dead thing that's been dead for a while.
And the biggest thread seems to be the thread with the pics where idiots spend time appreciating how idiotic other idiots look. I mean what the Frig! What - The - God - Damned - Frig! Is this what things have come to?
And I would have overlooked that too. But in the "faces" thread, for every hot chick, there are like 5 emo or goth kids and a lot of fat guys with beards! :o. I don't wanna see fat guys with beards, I AM a fat guy with a beard!!! :).
Back in my day, chicks were all around, moogle, aelya, kada, grono and others and we HIT on em ALL 8). * Sigh. Nerds these days./me shakes head in disgust.
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i'm an anti-nerd/goth/emo/hipster/bearded-old-man chick :D
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yeah, back in the day. Back when we did not have a game and all we had was rocks, err crystals I mean.
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yeah, back in the day. Back when we did not have a game and all we had was rocks, err crystals I mean.
and those who wanted to play fight would have to use the old gamble command ;]
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Well, I might not be as prehistoric as some of the people in this thread, ;) but as a relative oldbie who knows what she is talking about I can say that at least some of you old farts need to get off the forums and back in the game. :P
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@derwoodly & ghosts:
Yes ofcourse there was always and will always be a silly game where you can do quaint things. But what most fail to grasp is that it is merely a backdrop, a canvas for us players to paint great sagas in. Even when all the game let us do was collect rocks, great kingdoms rose and fell, destinies were made and erased, and men once mighty, bit the dust. It was grand my friends. And it had nothing to do with the game the devs had made. It was the game that we, the players, played.
Also: Watch and learn young padawans. The following is how real nerds hit on girls on the intarwebz ;D:
@Sarras:
Hmm "chick" you say? Interesting. Maybe I can be the one fat bearded nerd that you could get to like. ;)
@Illysia:
Alas I never knew that playing would afford me the privilege of the company of one so beautiful as yourself my lady :). I shall rectify my folly with the utmost haste.
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@derwoodly & ghosts:
Yes ofcourse there was always and will always be a silly game where you can do quaint things. But what most fail to grasp is that it is merely a backdrop, a canvas for us players to paint great sagas in. Even when all the game let us do was collect rocks, great kingdoms rose and fell, destinies were made and erased, and men once mighty, bit the dust. It was grand my friends. And it had nothing to do with the game the devs had made. It was the game that we, the players, played.
Also: Watch and learn young padawans. The following is how real nerds hit on girls on the intarwebz ;D:
@Sarras:
Hmm "chick" you say? Interesting. Maybe I can be the one fat bearded nerd that you could get to like. ;)
@Illysia:
Alas I never knew that playing would afford me the privilege of the company of one so beautiful as yourself my lady :). I shall rectify my folly with the utmost haste.
No need to tell me Auran, I was just reminiscing =] I miss molecular blue....not the game its self, but the roleplaying, it was so rich =] But I have to admit, wall climbing was fun! I remember climbing up the towers and chatting with reddew...anyone remember reddew?
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I feel like a newbie (young \o/) now ... thanks! ;D
Now someone go and find Isra...
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@Illysia:
Alas I never knew that playing would afford me the privilege of the company of one so beautiful as yourself my lady :). I shall rectify my folly with the utmost haste.
*Illysia waves her wooden spoon at Auran* You had better. :P
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Also: Watch and learn young padawans. The following is how real nerds hit on girls on the intarwebz ;D:
@Sarras:
Hmm "chick" you say? Interesting. Maybe I can be the one fat bearded nerd that you could get to like. ;)
i'm a minor :P
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I would have overlooked that too. But in the "faces" thread, for every the one and only hot chick...
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/me shakes fist @Sarras
Danged kids! Git off mah lawn :@#\.
I miss the PS chicks I used to RP hitting on(which way pretty much every girl or every one pretending to be a girl ;D). I especially miss the ones that RPed back, spurning my advances. Like my princess. I like em hard to get ;).
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My my my, doesn't this bring back memories? Somebody go hunt up Druke, Seperot, Tybalt, and Kada and we could sing "hail, hail, the gang's all here..."
I wonder what the odds are of the game/community ever getting to a stage that a large number of us would be seriously tempted to actually play again.
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Oh snap Auran, you make me feel like an ancient Egyptian pharaoh who just woke up in today's New York.
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I wonder what the odds are of the game/community ever getting to a stage that a large number of us would be seriously tempted to actually play again.
The new release is coming! Once it's working right.... :-\ it'll be worth coming back. Even I like it overall. ;D Come back when it gets released to Laanx... all of you.... really, I mean it! :P *waves her wooden spoon at all the oldbies for good measure* The Stonehead Tavern should be better than ever after it is released. :D
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Kid, it doesn't matter there's a new version coming up. Planeshift is not an executable pushed by a majestic double click, that leads towards a world filled with magic in which you can gain a few more levels. Planeshift is more than that. Planeshift means its community, its guilds, its goals along with the crazy old bastard who tries to conquer the entire realm. And for the moment, all these seem hidden to me.
But of course, the Black Order is a whisper who's turning into a very powerful scream.
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Kid, it doesn't matter there's a new version coming up. Planeshift is not an executable pushed by a majestic double click, that leads towards a world filled with magic in which you can gain a few more levels. Planeshift is more than that. Planeshift means its community, its guilds, its goals along with the crazy old bastard who tries to conquer the entire realm. And for the moment, all these seem hidden to me.
But of course, the Black Order is a whisper who's turning into a very powerful scream.
Kid? ::| I'll have you know I've been around for the last 4 or 5 years(I lost track a long time ago. ;D ) And yes, PS is more than button clicking. However, if the community is hidden for you, take a bow. It's oldbies like you not being in game making that happen. ::) :P If the community doesn't seem developed, it might be because of people not playing after a year or two. It takes awhile to build up community and if people leave before that stuff gets established or establish something and leave, i.e. end up dropping the RP, it will stay that way till people come back...
Long story short. Be the RP you want to see. :P AKA get in game. ;) Show us how it's done. :D
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So basically, you want us to do all the work because no one else is competent enough to? How tempting. What loyalty do we owe to PS if we're the ones making it good?
I've been "back" several times, and it's not that there's nothing decent going on, but there's so much mediocrity (or down right awfulness) that it's really difficult to start anything really well done when the community as a whole doesn't seem to hold that as a standard.
To sum up, it's a little unrealistic to expect us to return, when returning would require every one of us to take leadership roles and hold ourselves to standards that most of the community isn't even attempting.
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my two cents:
stop complaining and get it done. nothing happens when you whine. so get out there and do something you lousy wimps.
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stop complaining
You've never met the Planeshift Community, have you?
you lousy wimps.
Well now my feelings are hurt.
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:'(
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hey ho from another not so old oldbie but still... sure feel old when most of the so called old guys leave :'(
oh btw... i still play :P
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Sarras, each one of us has individually done more for the PS community than you have done or will do in the next three years, so until you have enough experience to actually make your point of view in any way valid, I'm going to take the liberty of ignoring you.
Besides, you hurt Timmothy's feelings, and although I have no idea who he is, I won't stand for that!
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Well folks, us oldbies do have some grievances from the state of game play like Phiney or Annah stated. And to acknowledge the newbies and midbies points, it might be because we don't play and participate in the community enough that we have them. But the fact remains that oldbies(or atleast I) leave because of two main reasons:
1. No one can go on forever:
As has been often said: The game isn't the binary file. Its what we invent. Me and my buddies (like annah, phiney, other old coots) here had a good thing going once. The game and the community interactions had a theme and that theme was evildoers sabotaging guilds and bringing mayhem to fulfill their ultimate( and classic) objective of ruling the world. The good guys tried stop them and due to the nature of the conflict almost everyone else had to get involved. The upshot of the entire scenario was that there was high drama everywhere. It was fun for some, not so fun for others but we had a game. But in time the sameness got to us all. It was just some of us masterminding the entire thing. And when we didn't want to do it anymore (due to whatever reasons) the whole thing died out. The new folks did not step in to carry it forward. And so the game lost a piece of its culture. So yeah some initiative from you all would be much appreciated.
So @Illysia, Timothy, Sarras and folks: If you need help or ideas, I am at your service personally. Just email me. But to expect me to reinvent it all again...lets just say I am older and have a fuller plate IRL to do it all again. Invent something fun and I'll play for sure. I still spend 5 to 10 hours a week gaming.
2. Not enough people try to RP:
See we all have our lives and are strangers IRL. Yeah some of us will know each other personally but thats besides the point. However here I find a lot of people forming cliques of pals and so forth and trying to use this as an extension for RL friendships and relations. Like that one guy talking about his wife and kids in the faces thread. Thats cool, I have nothing against it. But you lost me at that point. I can't participate in that.
I don't know you and there's no reason I need to. When I come here I should take a look at your name, hear you speak, look at your sig and go:
Hmm. Here's Timmothy Perriwinkle. He sounds like a ghey bard. OMG what a fairy! My ranger and him have got to be enemies
And so I'll have a basis of interaction with Timothy.
I don't need to know that Sarras needed help with homework because she flunks math or summin. I just need to know that she plays a dwarven blacksmith (maybe). But lo and behold, for most of the people here I know no such thing. So I have no basis of interacting with them. So the bottom line is: People need to RP most of the time and be real people as an exception. I can be best friend or mentor or lover or sworn enemy of Illysia the tavern wench. But the real person behind that, I might like her too but its not a requisite for my enjoyment of her in-game company.
In an MMORPG, the RP is important. Do it always. Never forget who you are supposed to be. Look at Annah's example:
But of course, the Black Order is a whisper who's turning into a very powerful scream.
Now we all know BO is more of a fart than a whisper ;D but that's not the point. The point is, Annah plays his character and doesnt forget his agenda. If everyone did that, you have the beginning of RP. And then we oldbies can also fit into the game because IRL we probably wont.
Here's a fun idea for all the current players of PS: I am willing to help you setup a game. If any 5 of you are interested, get together and PM me.
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So basically, you want us to do all the work because no one else is competent enough to? How tempting. What loyalty do we owe to PS if we're the ones making it good?
I've been "back" several times, and it's not that there's nothing decent going on, but there's so much mediocrity (or down right awfulness) that it's really difficult to start anything really well done when the community as a whole doesn't seem to hold that as a standard.
To sum up, it's a little unrealistic to expect us to return, when returning would require every one of us to take leadership roles and hold ourselves to standards that most of the community isn't even attempting.
No one can RP well in vacuum the problem is not really bad RP, but good RPers keeping quiet because "the RP is bad" around them. It's like saying "I'll never talk again because the people around me are saying stupid stuff..." The simpler solution is to ignore them and keep RPing. When all is said and done, at least they are attempting it. You might be good but if you stop RPing what difference does it make? ::) Beside, isn't starting up RPs what everybody who RPs well does?
....
So @Illysia, Timothy, Sarras and folks: If you need help or ideas, I am at your service personally. Just email me. But to expect me to reinvent it all again...lets just say I am older and have a fuller plate IRL to do it all again. Invent something fun and I'll play for sure. I still spend 5 to 10 hours a week gaming.
2. Not enough people try to RP:
See we all have our lives and are strangers IRL. Yeah some of us will know each other personally but thats besides the point. However here I find a lot of people forming cliques of pals and so forth and trying to use this as an extension for RL friendships and relations. Like that one guy talking about his wife and kids in the faces thread. Thats cool, I have nothing against it. But you lost me at that point. I can't participate in that.
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...So the bottom line is: People need to RP most of the time and be real people as an exception. I can be best friend or mentor or lover or sworn enemy of Illysia the tavern wench. But the real person behind that, I might like her too but its not a requisite for my enjoyment of her in-game company.
Well, said, but.... *waves her wooden spoon at Auran* tavern wench?!? You've been reading those books by Tonial haven't you? :P But seriously, If you want to collaborate on RPs we can do that. I won't be able to get into until my semester is over, but once I have free time I will be getting back in game and getting the tavern back as active as I can.
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Hmm. Here's Timmothy Perriwinkle. He sounds like a ghey bard.
How'd you know about my secret night life...
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@Illysia: Yeah cool. Lemme know. A tavern has many possibilities for the imaginative ;).
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Hello, old PS ;D
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I agree with pretty much everything Auran said, despite the fact that he said it in a much less abrasive manner than I would have.
I'm also willing to help out, but not run, RP endeavors. I would even consider returning to PS, and Annah can testify to this, if some of the oldbies returned or some better RP pops up on a regular basis. However, it would have to involve several high-quality RP strongholds returning or being born to PS, not just a well-thought-out storyline or two.
On a side rant, that seems to be one of the things I've noticed. The younger generation seems to define good RP as coming up with a decent storyline which while often good and interesting usually are only short-term. The old generations used to define good RP as creating groups and organizations to be involved in RPing on a long-term basis. Sure, not every single storyline that came up was rock solid, but there was a collaboration, longevity, and impact which gave poignancy to even the trivial RPs.
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Just goes to show that RP is dead.
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I agree with pretty much everything Auran said, despite the fact that he said it in a much less abrasive manner than I would have.
I'm also willing to help out, but not run, RP endeavors. I would even consider returning to PS, and Annah can testify to this, if some of the oldbies returned or some better RP pops up on a regular basis. However, it would have to involve several high-quality RP strongholds returning or being born to PS, not just a well-thought-out storyline or two.
On a side rant, that seems to be one of the things I've noticed. The younger generation seems to define good RP as coming up with a decent storyline which while often good and interesting usually are only short-term. The old generations used to define good RP as creating groups and organizations to be involved in RPing on a long-term basis. Sure, not every single storyline that came up was rock solid, but there was a collaboration, longevity, and impact which gave poignancy to even the trivial RPs.
Come on Phinehas, there is more to RP than good vs evil RP and struggles. Not to mention all storyline RP is short term. All my characters are for storylines and even when I can't RP constantly, I can always pick up where I left off. The hard part is getting more people into the story as often many choose to only RP within their usual groups and trying to bring people in can get awkward for the same reason. And for what it is worth, the stonehead tavern is suppose to be that kind of stronghold. That is what I am working toward.
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Well, well, well, if it isn't Auran. That has been such a long time ago even I have only heard stories of you and the Cabal. One of my mentors said you were quite the speecher. I wonder if I will ever hear one, will it come to that? It almost seems that with all of these oldbies running about the Empire has to, dare I say it, watch its back? Haha, that would be great for a change.
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I agree with pretty much everything Auran said, despite the fact that he said it in a much less abrasive manner than I would have.
I'm also willing to help out, but not run, RP endeavors. I would even consider returning to PS, and Annah can testify to this, if some of the oldbies returned or some better RP pops up on a regular basis. However, it would have to involve several high-quality RP strongholds returning or being born to PS, not just a well-thought-out storyline or two.
On a side rant, that seems to be one of the things I've noticed. The younger generation seems to define good RP as coming up with a decent storyline which while often good and interesting usually are only short-term. The old generations used to define good RP as creating groups and organizations to be involved in RPing on a long-term basis. Sure, not every single storyline that came up was rock solid, but there was a collaboration, longevity, and impact which gave poignancy to even the trivial RPs.
Come on Phinehas, there is more to RP than good vs evil RP and struggles. Not to mention all storyline RP is short term. All my characters are for storylines and even when I can't RP constantly, I can always pick up where I left off. The hard part is getting more people into the story as often many choose to only RP within their usual groups and trying to bring people in can get awkward for the same reason. And for what it is worth, the stonehead tavern is suppose to be that kind of stronghold. That is what I am working toward.
Phinehas does seem to have a point. Pick up a decent Fantasy book, or pretty much -any- fantasy book, it'll be about Good vs. Evil. Anything else degrades into "As The World Turns" in the end. However, there doesn't have to be an all out war going on all the time. What he means is there should be some kind of constant opposition between multiple parties that spawns off numerous smaller RPs and storylines. I have to agree, not many RPs in-game seem to adhere to any natural order at all. Most RPs are just about what the next guy thought would be cool.
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I can see that, but not every RP has to be that way. Do you spend your whole existence looking for something to oppose or do you just live your life at some point in the day? I think characters should have those more mundane RP if for no other reason than to prevent RP from coming right of a DnD handbook or something. PS doesn't have to be like every other fantasy setting. ;) it's ok for a character to be a joe shmoe just trying to get through his day. ;D
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@ThomPhoenix: Exactly my point.
For the record, I didn't say they had to be good vs. evil groups. For instance, I had an ongoing feud with the Arcane Order (until they eventually collapsed much to my delight), but neither of us were particularly good or evil. ThomPhoenix has hit the nail on the head when he mentions the constant opposition spawning numerous RPs. The short RP storyline has its merits, but it shouldn't be the only thing going on, because, again as ThomPhoenix points out, there's no real rhyme or reason behind them, it's all essentially random and whimsical.
Think of each RP storyline as a thread. When all there are are the single storylines, then all you have is a bunch of short threads laid out next to each other. Sure they may touch each other briefly, or one or two may be tied into a knot, but that's it. However, when you have longer threads (groups and organizations) who are regularly intertwined with other threads, spreading back and forth in various patterns, with other smaller threads also working their way in, you get a beautiful tapestry that you can put away in a cupboard, because let's face it, you have no taste. :P
Disclaimer: I have no knowledge of weaving, sewing, knitting, or anything of that sort. Just trying to make a point. Also, I take no responsibility for any run-on sentences.
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I understand what you are getting at, but I think you guys have a narrow view of what can be stretched out into a greater storyline with good continuity. There is more than struggle that can propel a good story. Quite truthfully, people get different things out of RP. I don't think the type of RP is so important as people RPing together consistently.
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I think if you're sitting at a table chatting, you should get some friends, get out of the house, go to a coffeeshop or something and chat.
It's an RP fantasy world. The point is to do things that you can't do IRL.
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Struggle isn't the only thing that the more long-term organization provides. See my tapestry metaphor for my point.
In the end it boils down to experience. Experience has shown me that groups and organizations provide more natural, easy, and high quality RP (not necessarily conflict, either) than single people coming up with isolated storylines do. If your experience has taught you something else, good for you, but don't expect me to just take your word for it if I don't have any reason to believe that you have significantly more experience than I do.
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Struggle isn't the only thing that the more long-term organization provides. See my tapestry metaphor for my point.
In the end it boils down to experience. Experience has shown me that groups and organizations provide more natural, easy, and high quality RP (not necessarily conflict, either) than single people coming up with isolated storylines do. If your experience has taught you something else, good for you, but don't expect me to just take your word for it if I don't have any reason to believe that you have significantly more experience than I do.
It's not a contest. It's not a matter of more or less experience, but I assure you I have plenty. Organization can in fact provide more RP as people have something in common, but considering the state of most in game organizations, i.e. on their last leg if they are still around at all, it's not the most feasible way of kick starting the community into good RP. The effort it would take to start new organization or refresh old ones is probably more than most oldbies would take on, not that no one would do it as there have been attempts recently.
Individual RPs, however, can at least get people interested again. Right now many people who are actually decent RPers won't RP in general because they have nothing interesting to RP about, I think. Whatever the reason is, you practically gotta pull RP out of people, but the underlying community is there, it's just quiet. I have found several good RPers out of the blue but just to watch them normally they don't really stop to RP as much.
I think if you're sitting at a table chatting, you should get some friends, get out of the house, go to a coffeeshop or something and chat.
It's an RP fantasy world. The point is to do things that you can't do IRL.
I can't chat as in Enkidukai cook in RL. :P
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I think if you're sitting at a table chatting, you should get some friends, get out of the house, go to a coffeeshop or something and chat.
It's an RP fantasy world. The point is to do things that you can't do IRL.
but that's the only thing you ever do
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@Illysia and others:
Well I do buy your point about wars not being the only thing that can serve as backdrop for RP. You could have other ideas but unfortunately they would only hold true for you and maybe some other like minded people. You see there is an axiom that : For something to be interesting to the masses, it has got to be something that everyone can relate to. And if you take that axiom and apply science to try to figure what could appeal to all people, you end up looking at Maslow's Heirachy of Needs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs).
The heirarchy talks about human nature and our motivations for action. It enumerates several "needs" that we have. Unfortunately they don't translate well to a digital and purely imaginary setting, except one: The need to "survive". We want imaginary creations to survive in the fantasy world that we have created them in.
So in a game, to motivate all players alike, there has to be a threat to their survival. A threat they cannot ignore and must act in some way to avoid or overcome. And a survival threat for everyone in a high fantasy setting can only mean a couple of things like:
1. Plagues: Folks try to fight it in good and evil ways. Some try to help others, some try to rise above it by standing on others' corpses. But everyone must act.
2. War: Everyone has to pick a side that they think will win or else they get destroyed. So everyone must act.
3. An imminent, cataclysmic threat: People tend to seek it, brace themselves for it, prepare to join it to survive. But everyone takes action.
There are others, but these three are classic. They set the tone for everything else and then the world evolves. We need something like this. With the Cabal wars we tried to create points 2 and 3. In PS, while the game is developing technically, it is still lacking immersion wise. I hope the devs get around to that some day.
You cant simply have all nice things in a land. We are nothing without adversity. A bunch of happy carefree people eventually go from fun to lame to sucking bollocks :). Look at the history of peoples and you will notice that wars created civilization and prosperity ruined them.
@Eolas:
I make no claims to greatness of any sort my friend, so whoever your mentor was, they were perhaps being too kind. As to the speech, maybe someday I will need to make another one, but I don't see when. But you can also simply hunt up any thread that says "Cabal" in it and judge for yourself. But I would like to hear these "stories" that you have heard about me and the cabal 8).
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@Illysia and others:
...
So in a game, to motivate all players alike, there has to be a threat to their survival. A threat they cannot ignore and must act in some way to avoid or overcome. And a survival threat for everyone in a high fantasy setting can only mean a couple of things like:
1. Plagues: Folks try to fight it in good and evil ways. Some try to help others, some try to rise above it by standing on others' corpses. But everyone must act.
2. War: Everyone has to pick a side that they think will win or else they get destroyed. So everyone must act.
3. An imminent, cataclysmic threat: People tend to seek it, brace themselves for it, prepare to join it to survive. But everyone takes action.
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You cant simply have all nice things in a land. We are nothing without adversity. A bunch of happy carefree people eventually go from fun to lame to sucking bollocks :). Look at the history of peoples and you will notice that wars created civilization and prosperity ruined them.
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Ok, I can see survival. But really, do all fantasy games have to have the same basic plot? ;D You can keep some basic elements without making them the focus. Also, survival isn't good enough in game right now. I've seen that kind of plot tried a couple of times and so far it falls flat after a short while. I think it's just been done to death, people don't take it serious anymore.
The reason I have a tendency to focus more on social interactions is people need to remember that their characters are people with stories behind them and ahead of them, not just a sword and a "good/bad cause". People get bogged down in "beating" the opposing side in war or cataclysimic event senarios and start to play PS in a very limited and linear way. I have no problem with the basic survival senario but too often it turns into "beat the game" instead of RP.
Right now, a lot of the players are coming out of more generic MMOs. The science of human nature won't help much in the face of the generic RPG mental attitude. We kinda have to ease people out of the "kill it" stage and then maybe get them back to "I have to stop X from happening because of y." I think right now, we need to help people define their characters before we launch them into taking sides.
Many characters, start of with the "woe is me" background and don't get developed too much more than that after character creation, if they have any back story. I have found, however, that social interactions between characters develops the characters more quickly, naturally and in a more comfortable setting for newer players, making a good way to get people comfortable with RPing in group and then maybe working up to war. Until we build the current base up and show them how it's done, we'll never have a community that will draw the oldbies back. And all you quiet, lurking oldbies need to just admit it, you wanna be back in game. :P
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Ok, I can see survival. But really, do all fantasy games have to have the same basic plot? ;D You can keep some basic elements without making them the focus. Also, survival isn't good enough in game right now. I've seen that kind of plot tried a couple of times and so far it falls flat after a short while. I think it's just been done to death, people don't take it serious anymore.
Why would anybody be worried about survival when their chars can get out of the Death Realm in the next five minutes then all they need to do is roleplay Dakkru's curse? Sounds easy enough and certainly the way to go nowadays.
Find something else like I don't know... stealing their cookies (which they don't loose if they die either)?
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The reason I have a tendency to focus more on social interactions is people need to remember that their characters are people with stories behind them and ahead of them, not just a sword and a "good/bad cause".
Many characters, start of with the "woe is me" background and don't get developed too much more than that after character creation, if they have any back story. I have found, however, that social interactions between characters develops the characters more quickly, naturally and in a more comfortable setting for newer players, making a good way to get people comfortable with RPing in group and then maybe working up to war.
This happens when you read struggle as meaning only armed conflict. However, any social environment has its inequalities, and how people relate to one another is usually determined by where and how they fit into the social spectrum and what social achievements they're aiming for. There's a whole lot of struggle just in that - no weapons drawn or combat even considered.
Take that away and where will you end? A bland sameness where people create drama for the lack of anything that their characters can relate to as much as other characters can. This leads to exactly the setting we have now: whimsical murder and a lot of characters being played as psychos or self-absorbed victims.
This is actually where I find the settings lacking somewhat: a less than supernatural conflict of interests in the world of Yliakum. The society is just too stable, too hierarchical, with few apparent parties or groups to side with.
If you want conflict other than with loose murderers on the run, then there must be clear groups presenting themselves with social aims and ideals, seeking to tie up capable people in their affairs.
I had a good time joining the Dark Empire with one of my characters. Instead of them rolling out the red carpet for the new member, they "convinced" my character to sacrifice some of his personal aims to fulfill quite painful duties! Sadly, that was around the last time I saw more than one guild member on at the same time.
Why would anybody be worried about survival when their chars can get out of the Death Realm in the next five minutes then all they need to do is roleplay Dakkru's curse?
Absolutely. Survival certainly won't do as the biggest motivating factor in PS. Maybe the DR was harder back when Auran played? :P
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I understand that struggle doesn't mean armed conflict, but the below quote is more in that vein.
1. Plagues: Folks try to fight it in good and evil ways. Some try to help others, some try to rise above it by standing on others' corpses. But everyone must act.
2. War: Everyone has to pick a side that they think will win or else they get destroyed. So everyone must act.
3. An imminent, cataclysmic threat: People tend to seek it, brace themselves for it, prepare to join it to survive. But everyone takes action.
However, PS has plenty of room for struggle between people in a social setting, most people never take advantage of it. There is potential for religious, political, and professional struggle, you just have to be artful about it.
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political
I'm the octarch!
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@Illysia:
And I agree that your idea sounds nice. But you need to develop it more and present it in form of a concrete story. So tell me, what would the game you play be about? But remember that it cant be too complicated or you'll lose people.
Infact I encourage all you folks to come up with stories that can serve as backdrop for PS. Post them and we will see what sounds best.
Why I pick war, pestilence and danger is that they are simple concepts and pretty open ended at that. You can do a lot with them. Even have your social interactions set against that backdrop. I cant see how any other thing could really apply to the world at large. But maybe you guys have ideas.
Maybe the DR was harder back when Auran played? Tongue
Well back when I played there was nothing. No game. Zero ::). And yet we had people quaking in their boots fearing their survival.
Oh and by the way: I can tell with fair certainty that most of you would have hated me if you had been around back in the day ;). Seeing how goody good you all are, Auran the Corruptor and the Cabal would have been your worst nightmare. You see we never killed nobody, we killed societies. That's the kind of threat we were and how we made you worry about your survival. All in good fun though :whistling: :innocent:.
Edit: I like this guy, Timmy Perriwinkle 8). If I had a guild, I'd ask Timmy to join.
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Not exactly sure what you are looking for in a story but I'll give it a try and as for liking Timmy..... er.... :o ::|
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Illysia, you cannot deny you're head over heels, hopelessly infatuated with my manly charms. You don't have to keep it secret anymore - shout it from the mountain tops! Go door to door proclaiming it!
Or fill your gender's niche and stay in the kitchen, baking a cake <3
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I'll throw my much less charismatic two cents in on Auran's side here by saying simply this: the concept that he is propounding and which I support is tried and proven. We made it work. The concept which Illysia (and quite a lot of the current community) seems to be after has not yet been proven to work, or at least not on a large, community-encompassing scale. I know there are myriads of reasons that you will find to point out that that statement is unfair. I'm not saying it's fair, I'm just saying it's true. Argue the details back and forth all you want, but our system was effective and we made it work, and this more sporadic and random approach, while nice on an individual level, has yet to grab the community as a whole. Possibly due to the fact, as Auran pointed out, that it doesn't really seem to be a system for promoting RP in the community so much as a personal approach.
As for what Auran said, it's true. You all would've hated him. You all hated me the last time I was actively posting, and I'm comparatively neutrally aligned.
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Yep folks. I was pretty horrible. To quote Dr. Horrible: "I have a PHD in horribleness". :devil:
@Phinehas:
Thanks for the vote of confidence buddy :thumbup:. And for what its worth, I think you were horrible too ;).
@Illysia:
All I'm looking for in the story is a synopsis in 100 words. Lets hear your idea of what PS could be all about.
Also, whats there to not like about Timmy? He is delightfully incoherent :). That's a skill in my book. Nice work Timmy-Tim!
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Illysia, you cannot deny you're head over heels, hopelessly infatuated with my manly charms. You don't have to keep it secret anymore - shout it from the mountain tops! Go door to door proclaiming it!
Or fill your gender's niche and stay in the kitchen, baking a cake <3
In your dreams Timmy.
I'll throw my much less charismatic two cents in on Auran's side here by saying simply this: the concept that he is propounding and which I support is tried and proven. We made it work. The concept which Illysia (and quite a lot of the current community) seems to be after has not yet been proven to work, or at least not on a large, community-encompassing scale. I know there are myriads of reasons that you will find to point out that that statement is unfair. I'm not saying it's fair, I'm just saying it's true. Argue the details back and forth all you want, but our system was effective and we made it work, and this more sporadic and random approach, while nice on an individual level, has yet to grab the community as a whole. Possibly due to the fact, as Auran pointed out, that it doesn't really seem to be a system for promoting RP in the community so much as a personal approach.
As for what Auran said, it's true. You all would've hated him. You all hated me the last time I was actively posting, and I'm comparatively neutrally aligned.
Keep in mind that you are talking about what worked in a community that largely doesn't play anymore. The dynamics have shifted greatly. Your way was proven in the past and my way is being proven now, but it has to start somewhere. You might be a vetern of this battle but I'm currently in the trenches. You way is not more valid. Valid but still within the realm of perfect capable of failing within this current community's context. And keep in mind, no one ever gives up trying to the start the plots you guys favored, that has also failed to reach the community as a whole in recent years. The problem is that you have to bind the community together again and then you can start with the fancy stuff. I don't know how recently you've been in game but trust me, if people don't trust RPing with your character, they won't, and if they won't RP, your plots will fall flat like so many others. First the community just really needs to be brought together.
Yep folks. I was pretty horrible. To quote Dr. Horrible: "I have a PHD in horribleness". :devil:
@Phinehas:
Thanks for the vote of confidence buddy :thumbup:. And for what its worth, I think you were horrible too ;).
@Illysia:
All I'm looking for in the story is a synopsis in 100 words. Lets hear your idea of what PS could be all about.
Also, whats there to not like about Timmy? He is delightfully incoherent :). That's a skill in my book. Nice work Timmy-Tim!
Ok, I was wrong in my assumption of what you were looking for. But I don't need to redefine PS, everything it's about is on the Planshift.it page. It's a non linear game, it doesn't have to "be about" a certain vein of RP. That's the whole point of non linear play. I'll work on giving you RP synopses so you can see what I mean about where RPs can go in PS. I'm not saying you can't have full scale war or nothing, but 1. Not everyone roleplays for the thrill, and 2. in the current community not enough people roleplay to even pull one off.
And what's not to like about Timmy? Maybe it's just a girl thing. :P
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I don't know how recently you've been in game but trust me, if people don't trust RPing with your character, they won't, and if they won't RP, your plots will fall flat like so many others.
Thats not really RP'ing at all then my lovely lady. If people just turn off their characters at whim, then those people really do suck as RP'ers. When you RP, you just become someone in the world of PS. And then, just like in the real world you cant really stop being you, in this realm you can't not be Illysia. Otherwise you are breaking the third wall. So frankly my dear, such people are being little n00blers. And of course you cant play with little n00blers. N00blers want everything to go their way and throw hissy fits at the slightest adversity. Thats not how pretend lives work nor how real life works.
1. Not everyone role-plays for the thrill
What do you think thrill is? It can be a lot of things. But let me put it this way: Everyone role-plays for something surely? What do you role-play for?
2. in the current community not enough people roleplay to even pull one off
If there aren't enough players around or interested in role playing then I guess I have to agree that trying to play this game as an RPG is a bankrupt exercise. And I am sure that's what most oldbies are feeling sad about.
I think there's something else we are missing here. And I still think that something is finding out what appeals to all players alike.
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Thats not really RP'ing at all then my lovely lady. If people just turn off their characters at whim, then those people really do suck as RP'ers. When you RP, you just become someone in the world of PS. And then, just like in the real world you cant really stop being you, in this realm you can't not be Illysia. Otherwise you are breaking the third wall. So frankly my dear, such people are being little n00blers. And of course you cant play with little n00blers. N00blers want everything to go their way and throw hissy fits at the slightest adversity. Thats not how pretend lives work nor how real life works.
Nevertheless, there is a less than ideal RP situation in game and saying "how it should be" doesn't change how it most certainly is. And again, whether they suck or not, they are at least attempting. The one who does not do cannot completely criticize the one who tries and fails. ;) Past merit only goes so far. You can't live off past RP glories forever, I know, I tried. Better to start anew with newbs than to complain about the old days and not RP because of newbs. Moreover, most "n00blers" are far less inclined to throw hissy fits when they don't get their way than oldbies and people who are good at RP. I know this from first hand experience. Many newbs just need someone to be patient and RP with the and help them learn.... like many of us did in the beginning. I still remember sitting around with Agara early on. :D
What do you think thrill is? It can be a lot of things. But let me put it this way: Everyone role-plays for something surely? What do you role-play for?
For many players, well... the ones that typically RP and run off other people, thrill is being an assassin/rogue/bad guy of some sort and being "bad". They get a kick out of "robbing people" just because the character is in their general vicinity. They don't care so much about story, or settings or other things. They more or less treat PS like a poor man's Grand Theft Auto.
For some players thrill is dueling. And they too only care about that.
Some people are better at RPing on a small scale but don't necessarily work things out very far. Some of these people also seek the excitement of "darker" side of society and run with it. But, most of those people fail to realize how much more effort it takes to effectively play a "bad" character than it does to play a good "character". Another unfortunate side affect is the notion that "good" characters are good two shoes and boring. There's no excitement in it for them so they dislike those kinds of characters. This points to the underlying problem of lack of imagination. A shoemaker can be an interesting character if well thought out and well played, but a Dark Archmage can be the flatest, most uninteresting character if all he has going for him as that he can "pwn"...
The flip side of the above character is the "goody two shoes" variant and they have the paladin counterpart to the the dark archmage. However, good intentions does not necessarily equal a good character. There still needs to be some thought.
Some people play the game to chat mostly. Mind you they do so in character but most of their time is spent just talking in one place. I believe their focus is not on exciting events as much as having characters with depth. Nowadays, having a character that has something to talk about is a pretty big feat in it's own right. Also, it should be noted that some events can lead to RP that they find exciting but it's not based solely on the actions of the character.
I RP to watch stories unfold, see what happens to characters, how they develop. I also rp because I like helping and doing things for others. I know the last one sounds a bit odd but nevertheless it's the truth. It's the reason I started running the stonehead and the reason I set it up the way I did. It is there for the purpose of serving the community and promoting RP so that everyone can enjoy it in a comfortable setting. Mind you, there is room for the upset or two as long as it is within reason. The whole purpose is so that everyone can RP together.
If there aren't enough players around or interested in role playing then I guess I have to agree that trying to play this game as an RPG is a bankrupt exercise. And I am sure that's what most oldbies are feeling sad about.
The problem is not whether people want to RP, the problem is whether people want to RP with the other people around them. And the answer is frequently no. This problem runs up and down the scale from newbie to oldbie. People have segregated too much and it reflects in either no RP or RP cliques.
I think there's something else we are missing here. And I still think that something is finding out what appeals to all players alike.
It's not one thing. The way to get everybody on board is to do some of everything. I listed above what different groups like, you just have to find a way to integrate it all, but that's the hard part. Not impossible though, just hard.
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Interesting tactic. I think for most oldbies mentioning Agara's name has the reverse effect of the goal of usual name-dropping. :P
Anywho, at some point, Illysia, I think you're going to need to let go of the idea that just because we're not playing the game right now, we have no clue how to get people involved in RP. You're also gonna have to let go of the idea that we don't really need to know what RP is and that it has to be explained to us.
The one who does not do cannot completely criticize the one who tries and fails. ;) Past merit only goes so far. You can't live off past RP glories forever, I know, I tried. Better to start anew with newbs than to complain about the old days and not RP because of newbs.
I think what you're missing here is that the "past RP glories," if there were any, were earned. Try to think of our past successes as something that we worked hard to achieve, not as something that must have just sprung into being due to the fertile ground of the community but which would have no application to the current community. We made it work, it didn't just snap into place with no apparent effort. If you can accept that, it's not hard to realize that we have quite a bit of experience, and not of experience that would only work in a specific situation, as you seem to think.
Having said that, it appears to me that you're being blinded by not knowing what was actually going on in those "days gone past." Yes, as Auran says, there were wars and rumors of wars and great empires fell and rose, but that was only the culmination of the organizations and groups which allowed for, and encouraged, all the forms of RP which you so condescendingly listed above. We weren't all fighting on one side or another. Yes, I had my own feuds, but there were also a lot of times where I'd sit around in the tavern and discuss magic with other wizards, or heck, get drunk and have Tybalt carry me home. There were people who played "bad" characters and people who played "good" characters, and there were even the people who just sat around and didn't do much of anything (but they did it in-character). So what we're proposing isn't simply to set up a giant "good" vs. "evil" conflict and hope that it will magically generate RP. There's a lot more to it. In fact, what you're apparently (I haven't been there, so don't know personally) doing with the stonehead tavern seems to be more or less what a lot of people did way back when.
In the end, people need an RP-friendly environment so that those who want to RP can, and that's exactly what we're proposing to establish. Now it's true, we don't want to do all the work ourselves... those days are gone, but we're happy to help.
Now, if you want, you could clarify your position. I'll be honest, I don't exactly see where you're coming from right now. You're very blatantly against anything we have to say, but I'm not really seeing an opposing viewpoint. It seems that you think we're just being idealists but don't have the practicality to actually make what we suggest happen. Is that it? Auran has asked you a couple of times how you envision Planeshift's RP developing, and so far all I'm getting is "there should be a lot of different and good RP." Well, that's our desire, too. What we're asking is, if you don't like our methods, what methods do you propose? It seems that you're leaning towards an "everyone should RP well individually and hope other people pick it up" approach. Is that so? Please clarify.
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Illysia, you cannot deny you're head over heels, hopelessly infatuated with my manly charms. You don't have to keep it secret anymore - shout it from the mountain tops! Go door to door proclaiming it!
Doubt it.
Or fill your gender's niche and stay in the kitchen, baking a cake <3
Just dont ask her to ski, because there's no snow in between the kitchen and the bedroom. :P
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@Phineas: Firstly, you have completely missed the point of what I have been trying to say. Secondly, you are a fine one to bring up condescension, as you keep treating me as a newb who could not possibly know what she is talking about. I have been at this long enough to have seen most of what you have. I value your input whether I agree with it or not. I would ask that you show the same courtesy.
Further, I never said you have no clue how to RP. You are apparently just not registering the need to change tactics in light of the fundamental change in the game community. If you are all that good at RP you will be able to adapt with less "it's the community's fault" reasoning. Complaining about it does nothing, brainstorming ideas to get around it does.
Also, earned or not, you need to get over the fact that the you and the players you are familiar with are not the only ones to have the ability to RP. Whether you know my RPs or not, they are still valid and in most recent cases as good anything in the past. I have some credibility here whether you wish to acknowledge it or not. More importantly, I have been working on specifically how to get around not having "fertile ground of the community" instead of speculating on how to bring back the good ole days.(well, at least now. I admit I did the same thing earlier but I have gotten over it) I'd be less likely to sound like I am against anything if you would stop going on about what the community was, instead of accepting the fact that it's simply not that way now. Oh and might I mention that mentioning Agara was not name dropping, I have no need to name drop, I mentioned her because she was important to my RPing. Whether she RPed or not, if it wasn't for her I would have never RPed. She was the first person I started interacting with regularly and it lead to me starting to RP.
The RPs listed earlier were a mere relation of what I have heard from people playing the game about what they like and a few true statement about character development. It is not a condescension, it simply a statement. If you feel pricked by it then maybe you need to work on your character development a bit. ;D (since you seem to misinterpret what I say a lot I will state out right that this is teasing, so that there is no time wasted on a "who do you think you are?" argument.) The part about good and bad characters is a reflection of many of the current in games view, not my own. Next time try paying attention to the wording, I made it clear what was my own view of RP.
Overall, I am not against what Auran has proposed, I merely said "not yet." The community isn't quite up to snuff for it. Let me recap that statement for you. I bolded the parts you must have skimmed past. And as for my vision, I haven't finished typing it yet, it's not a matter of I don't have one, I have not made a priority of cutting time for homework and such to write it out formally for you and present it in gold ink but trust me, I have every intentions of presenting it.
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Ok, I can see survival. But really, do all fantasy games have to have the same basic plot? ;D You can keep some basic elements without making them the focus. Also, survival isn't good enough in game right now. I've seen that kind of plot tried a couple of times and so far it falls flat after a short while. I think it's just been done to death, people don't take it serious anymore.
The reason I have a tendency to focus more on social interactions is people need to remember that their characters are people with stories behind them and ahead of them, not just a sword and a "good/bad cause". People get bogged down in "beating" the opposing side in war or cataclysimic event senarios and start to play PS in a very limited and linear way. I have no problem with the basic survival senario but too often it turns into "beat the game" instead of RP.
Right now, a lot of the players are coming out of more generic MMOs. The science of human nature won't help much in the face of the generic RPG mental attitude. We kinda have to ease people out of the "kill it" stage and then maybe get them back to "I have to stop X from happening because of y." I think right now, we need to help people define their characters before we launch them into taking sides.
Many characters, start of with the "woe is me" background and don't get developed too much more than that after character creation, if they have any back story. I have found, however, that social interactions between characters develops the characters more quickly, naturally and in a more comfortable setting for newer players, making a good way to get people comfortable with RPing in group and then maybe working up to war. Until we build the current base up and show them how it's done, we'll never have a community that will draw the oldbies back. And all you quiet, lurking oldbies need to just admit it, you wanna be back in game. :P
@bloodedIrishman: Er.... well said... um... I think. ::|
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Wow. Did you even read my post? I mean, beyond the parts that you apparently found personally insulting? Because everything I said still works as a reply to your last post.
I am not treating you as a newb who doesn't know anything, I'm simply asking that you accept that our experience may not be as outdated or as you think, and it may apply to the current community better than you think. Your absolute refusal to accept that is what is making me point it out over and over. Again, let me re-iterate it. We made the community what it was, it didn't make us what we are. In other words, it was our hard work and effort that turned the community into a place that had awesome organizations and groups. You seem to be under the impression that the community was just awesome and peachy, and therefore it worked to have organizations and groups.
As for the writing out your proposal in gold ink. Nobody's asking you to do so, so there's no need for sarcasm. On the other hand, if you have time to write out such huge posts in reply to ours, surely you can find couple minutes to give us a paragraph or two about what your vision is, so that we can then compare them and work together. Currently we seem to be going more with you ripping apart our approach and us defending it, rinse and repeat.
I will clarify the Agara comment. I didn't mean to imply that you were name-dropping to gain status or something. I'm just saying that Agara has a... less than positive reputation among the oldbies.
For the rest, I'd appreciate if you glanced over my post again, especially the part where I point out that I'm not advocating overall war as a magic RP solution so much as the construction of groups and organizations which benefit RP and, yes, may lead to wars.
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If I hadn't read your post, mine wouldn't have been so long. I never said the community was peachy, please point out where you think I did. But it is in worse shape now or oldbies wouldn't complain so much. They would just play the game as they used to. If it was this bad in that past, doing what you did in the past would not be so hard as you would expect the same result. What I am trying to get at is forget the past to an extent. It will not help the outlook on the future, it generally leads to talk of how it was which has not helped enough in changing the in game atmosphere.
On the note of Agara's reputation, I'll tolerate all day someone who uses smilies in main if they can encourage others to spread out and eventually RP.
On the subject of wars, I actually wasn't talking to you about that. I was directing most of my comments at Auran and you decided to jump into the fray. It is not condescending but a mere presentation of in game reality. And the reason my proposal wasn't written out already because I had a specific way I wanted to present it but was not entirely sure how to write it out. I intend to use the written form beyond the discussions here and it need to be for a broader scope of people, not just the few people reading this thread. Responding to you takes considerably less effort.
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I am not treating you as a newb who doesn't know anything
yes you are/were (looks like you calmed down at the end of your post)
I'm simply asking that you accept that our experience may not be as outdated or as you think, and it may apply to the current community better than you think.
she plays, you don't, you're clueless as to what the game is like. why don't you get online and confirm that your experience isn't obsolete?
We made the community what it was, it didn't make us what we are. In other words, it was our hard work and effort that turned the community into a place that had awesome organizations and groups. You seem to be under the impression that the community was just awesome and peachy, and therefore it worked to have organizations and groups.
right then, get on ps and bust your butt if you want the community like it once was "back in the day." if all you're going to do is simply whine and point out faults, why bother visiting the forum? obviously you care, so do something about it, mr. veteran. we're dying to have your expertise!
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Guys! Guys!
Lets let this rest shall we? My experience tells me you cannot make people agree with you by giving structured arguments. You essentially have to apply to baser instincts than good sense to get general consensus.
However, regardless of what would work for PS at this stage, generally in life, to get predictable behavior from people you need to apply to instincts rather than sense. You can more accurately predict how people will be motivated by fear, greed, hunger etc rather than love, camaraderie, altruism etc. For example: The bible says be good or burn in hell. Even god knows that simply telling people to be good because its the right thing to do doesn't work ;). And conflict comes naturally to humans. I mean look at this discussion, it is essentially a conflict isn't it? How many posts in response to Timmy's jokes and how many arguing RP? We all want to win you know. To deny this is a mistake.
Humans are not noble, altruistic and peace loving. One man or woman may be, but never the whole of humanity. These are not the things that motivate us even if we make ourselves believe that they are. For example: Illysia says she is motivated to help people and make the community better for everyone. Noble thoughts those. However I think its not so much helping people as being known and approved of by others for being a nice person.
@Illysia: If no one acknowledged your good work Illysia, if everyone hated and cursed you, would you still do it? I think that you would leave in an instant. So Its not the action then that motivates you but the rewards of the actions. Fame and influence. Think about it.
Once you acknowledge how humans work, you have won. You can then truly be in control. And that is how you influence masses of people. Not by thinking of them as individual human beings. Individuals cannot be guided. Think of them as the public, a herd of sorts, and then you can take them where you want. To their deaths or salvation, it matters not. So I feel waiting for individuals to grow up and RP is too complicated. You have got to manipulate them en-masse into it.
However all that being said, whatever we oldbies think does not matter because it is not we who own the world now. It is you, the current players. Do what you will for the action is yours to take. And whatever you guys decide must be correct. But the oldbies do know something. We made it work. Whatever the reasons you ascribe that to, you cannot deny that fact, can you? Lets meet again when you all have done as much and we will discuss what was the better approach. Till then, lets be friends? :)
Disclaimer: Regardless of appearances, I am not really evil :innocent:
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Once you acknowledge how humans work, you have won. You can then truly be in control. And that is how you influence masses of people. Not by thinking of them as individual human beings. Individuals cannot be guided. Think of them as the public, a herd of sorts, and then you can take them where you want.
Shades of Hari Seldon /o\
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@Auran: *laughs* Thank you Nietzsche, but I'm afraid these kinds of sweeping generalization are only part true. If were this simple to guide the masses you would not have room for strong individuals popping up, as they would get swept up in the crowds like everyone else. Base nature is a strong motivation but those that deliberatly resist that, and yes they do exist otherwise the world would be in even worse shape than it is, are not just pulled along like a ducks on a string. Also, love will make you do way more savage things than fear will in many cases. People losing a family member or significant other can easily turn into serial killers. :o
In regards to me doing the whole tavern thing for fame and influence, sorry but wrong again. If I had not done it just for the community I would not be doing it now as this is not my first attempt at running the Stonehead. The first attempt was an EPIC FAIL and yet because I truly felt it needed to be done, I came headlong back into and did it on basically the same model. This time it worked wonderfully, but even that came after a time. I spent many nights BY MYSELF in that tavern earlier with little to no interest beyond comments in the forums. It took awhile for it to build up steam. I admit, I was even ready to quit at one point since it seemed like it wasn't doing any good. Then once I heard from some players that they were comfortable RPing in the tavern, some even giving it another try because it was a safer setting, I knew that I had at least done what I set out to do, with Elady's help I pulled it together and kept chugging along. I don't need fame, certainly don't have it now or influence, don't really have much of that in game either, I just need to know that I have done something for someone. As much as I like being appreciated, I like doing things that benefit others more. Goodness knows I done plenty of thankless jobs over the years in RL but I do what I feel needs be done.
And on the matter of being friend sure :D , although if your character pops at the tavern... behave. Illysia will toss you right over the ledge of The Keep if need be. ;) She has low tolerance for foolishness in her tavern.
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Eh, I'm with Auran on the giving up the argument part, if not entirely on the whole cynical part. I'm tired of banging my head against the wall of the community's resentment of oldbie advice.
It's a tad annoying to come back to the community interested in giving advice or suggestions but to be essentially told that apparently the only options which will be accepted by the current community are either to shut up, or to do all the work myself. So I guess I'll go back to comparatively shutting up until it seems like enough is going on again to make it worthwhile to do something.
Hey Auran, what was the name of that guy who always used to talk in third person?
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However all that being said, whatever we oldbies think does not matter because it is not we who own the world now. It is you, the current players. Do what you will for the action is yours to take. And whatever you guys decide must be correct. But the oldbies do know something. We made it work. Whatever the reasons you ascribe that to, you cannot deny that fact, can you? Lets meet again when you all have done as much and we will discuss what was the better approach.
how about this: you oldbies can teach us, the newer players, how to conduct these badass rps you speak of. if there's a huge gap between noobies and oldbies, we probably don't know anything, so teaching would be the best idea. it's not like an unlearned child just suddenly knows all of calculus and chemistry and etc. post a guide on how to create grand roleplays, get on ps and teach some noobs, or even gather a bunch of willing oldbies and show us how it's done.
@Auran: *laughs* Thank you Nietzsche, but I'm afraid these kinds of sweeping generalization are only part true. If were this simple to guide the masses you would not have room for strong individuals popping up, as they would get swept up in the crowds like everyone else. Base nature is a strong motivation but those that deliberatly resist that, and yes they do exist otherwise the world would be in even worse shape than it is, are not just pulled along like a ducks on a string.
he already said that, just a little differently....
Eh, I'm with Auran on the giving up the argument part, if not entirely on the whole cynical part. I'm tired of banging my head against the wall of the community's resentment of oldbie advice.
you know why there's resentment? because you whine. it's annoying.
It's a tad annoying to come back to the community interested in giving advice or suggestions but to be essentially told that apparently the only options which will be accepted by the current community are either to shut up, or to do all the work myself.
no, your options are to either shut up or you can join the rest of the community in trying to make something that works. you're not alone in this, idk why you think you are. i'm getting the feeling that you want to be in charge of the whole thing. you like to be in charge, right? and either you somehow convince the players of ps to play the way you tell them to... or you flaunt your experience and condescending nerdy ex-guildleader awesomeness? what the hell? lol
also, you're not part of the community if you don't play. this is a game. play it or leave it. you don't just hang around like some kind of player-wannabe. that's just weird and creepy.
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I'm afraid these kinds of sweeping generalization are only part true
All generalizations are sweeping and only partly true dear miss Illysia. That is why they are generalizations. But that's also why they generally work :).
People losing a family member or significant other can easily turn into serial killers
Thats either fear of losing a loved one, anger at losing a loved one or hatred for the one that caused the loss. Its not because of love I am afraid. Its because we are greedy for love and react to its loss.
In regards to me doing the whole tavern thing for fame and influence, sorry but wrong again.
Thats cool. I am happy to be wrong about such things. I would rather find good people than the apathetic SOBs I expect to find. Such is the life of a cynic who'd rather be an optimist. The optimist in me is happy to hear what you said, but the cynic keep saying 'Bah!' :).
@Addeline
Aye there's much that the Foundation teaches us. Anyone who hasn't read it should with utmost haste. Its very enjoyable. I recommend Asimov and Lovecraft as two essential authors for geeks.
@Phiney
That berk would be Savion. He was a nice bloke though.
By the way, in absence of RP I'd also be happy to play if the game had skimpy outfits for chicks ;D
how about this: you oldbies can teach us, the newer players, how to conduct these badass rps you speak of
Aye, thats what I said many posts ago and I think so did Phiney. I'd be happy to. Who all are interested? I need atleast 5 volunteers who have some time.
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i actually can't now, but maybe later, auran
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Aye, thats what I said many posts ago and I think so did Phiney. I'd be happy to. Who all are interested? I need atleast 5 volunteers who have some time.
I`ll bite. Auran, shoot me a PM (or an IG Tell to Kaisa or Giroum). I`d like to see what you can do (and in turn do what I can to help).
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i actually can't now, but maybe later, auran
Well well! I seem remember someone telling oldbies to quit whining and do something. Was it you by any chance little one? Oh but that would be so ironic wouldn't it now ;) Tsk.Tsk. Kids these days ::).
@Jarexia
I appreciate the enthusiam mate :thumbup:. Its not like I have a script that I can hand to you. But if we can get together a band of people and knock some ideas around, maybe we could get something going. You see this can't be Auran's show. That's been done before. It's got to be yours. You got any friends who might be interested as well?
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Please count me in too.
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@Auran
All generalizations are sweeping and only partly true dear miss Illysia. That is why they are generalizations. But that's also why they generally work :).
Some things are generalizations and some things are truisms. I however beg to differ still.
Thats either fear of losing a loved one, anger at losing a loved one or hatred for the one that caused the loss. Its not because of love I am afraid. Its because we are greedy for love and react to its loss.
I won't get into a full philosophical and ideological debate about this as this isn't the time or place and I don't have the energy for it but again I don't agree.
Thats cool. I am happy to be wrong about such things. I would rather find good people than the apathetic SOBs I expect to find. Such is the life of a cynic who'd rather be an optimist. The optimist in me is happy to hear what you said, but the cynic keep saying 'Bah!' :).
Eh, cynicism is as bad as optimism. Not to go all zen or nothing, but what we need is balance between the two.
Aye there's much that the Foundation teaches us. Anyone who hasn't read it should with utmost haste. Its very enjoyable. I recommend Asimov and Lovecraft as two essential authors for geeks.
;D Sorry, but as far as I am concerned I can for my own observations on life, I don't need Ayn Rand spelling it out for me. However, I admit, you can get a mind stretching moment or two from these authors.
By the way, in absence of RP I'd also be happy to play if the game had skimpy outfits for chicks ;D
Bah, go play WoW or one of it's clones. We'll have none of that here. :P And I personally have no problem sitting and listening to your ideas. However I will try and balance out any "evil" RP if we get to an implementation phase. ;D
@Phinehas: Most of the time I would venture it's less the community's resistance to oldbie advice and more your more abrasive approach. Like for instance, there is a whole range of players that have not played as long as you have that have valid experience of their own. "Oldbie Experience" is not the end all and apparently no one feels like being an acolyte to hear what you may offer. Maybe if you met people on middle ground on the whole experience thing people would be less likely to react when you something. They might just start taking your word for it.
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By the way, in absence of RP I'd also be happy to play if the game had skimpy outfits for chicks ;D
Then harass XilliX and co. into giving me a spot on the settings team (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=36051.0).
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I sometimes wonder if shutting down the forums would increase roleplay in game.
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Nah. An unofficial PS forum would pop up in a day for us all to whine on.
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Nah. An unofficial PS forum would pop up in a day for us all to whine on.
For once I agree. This is the only thing keeping lurkers from disappearing entirely...
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By the way, in absence of RP I'd also be happy to play if the game had skimpy outfits for chicks ;D
Then harass XilliX and co. into giving me a spot on the settings team (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=36051.0).
I doubt it Timmothy, you might've got off on the wrong foot with Xillix.
I sometimes wonder if shutting down the forums would increase roleplay in game.
No.
Nah. An unofficial PS forum would pop up in a day for us all to whine on.
Possibly.
Nah. An unofficial PS forum would pop up in a day for us all to whine on.
For once I agree. This is the only thing keeping lurkers from disappearing entirely...
And nasty trolls.
And people who play but whine.
And people who have quit but hang around.
And people who have quit but like to hang around and whine about the game.
And finally, regular players.
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Ah, but no fun for the oldbies without forums, they are a perfect place to blab about how great they once were.
However, to increase RP and its quality IG all this bickering is good for nothing. See by yourself...
(http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/5682/sadplayercount.jpg)
Half of these 46 players don't even know RP exists and the other half are still trying to find somebody else worthy to RP with.
Who are you going to run all these marvelous plots with? ;)
I'm simply asking that you accept that our experience may not be as outdated or as you think, and it may apply to the current community better than you think.
she plays, you don't, you're clueless as to what the game is like. why don't you get online and confirm that your experience isn't obsolete?
Touché.
And finally, regular players.
None of the people who posted in this thread (including myself) is in-game right now. So...
No, regular players are playing the game and not wasting their time here.
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None of the people who posted in this thread (including myself) is in-game right now.
You cannot say with 100% certainty that none of us are online with an alt of some sort.
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None of the people who posted in this thread (including myself) is in-game right now. So...
No, regular players are playing the game and not wasting their time here
I may not be online right now, but I am an active regular player.
Fact:
Regular players use the forums.
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It's always such a humbling experience to stop by these forums. I mean, if it wasn't for you people I might have forgotten that I have no worth, my experience means nothing, any reminiscing or attempting to draw conclusions from the past that I do is whining, none of my efforts on behalf of the community in any way qualify me for any respect, and that none of my thoughts have any merit. It's a wonder I don't stop by more often. I mean, who wouldn't want to sacrifice time and energy for you people?
@Timmothy: Technically, you can say that. You'd just be mildly delusional.
@Auran: Ah yes, Savion. Now I remember. He was... unique.
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@Timmothy: Technically, you can say that. You'd just be mildly delusional.
You're right, any member of the PS community can say that.
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Fact:
Regular players use the forums.
Okay I trust you, the forums reflect what the players think.
I fail to understand how come the last wipe thread had a bunch of people creating new accounts just to post there. Check all the names of people with less than 10 posts there again and look for what else have they spoken their mind about. Strange though, if you played lately all of those names sound pretty familiar. ;)
Sure, some regular players use the forums, usually ones tending to RP. You forget the other 80% of the playerbase, and stating what's said in the forums is what the real community thinks is naive to say the least.
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@Lhaa: Most of the community can't be bothered to give input until there is a reward at stake and you know it. ;)
@Phinehas: And about you having no worth and your experience meaning nothing, nobody has said that so there is no need for sarcasm. ;) Sorry, couldn't resist.
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...Which is you, just proving her point.
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Fact:
Regular players use the forums.
Okay I trust you, the forums reflect what the players think.
I fail to understand how come the last wipe thread had a bunch of people creating new accounts just to post there. Check all the names of people with less than 10 posts there again and look for what else have they spoken their mind about. Strange though, if you played lately all of those names sound pretty familiar. ;)
Sure, some regular players use the forums, usually ones tending to RP. You forget the other 80% of the playerbase, and stating what's said in the forums is what the real community thinks is naive to say the least.
I am the player, I am the playerbase, I am the community.
...Which is you, just proving her point.
But Timmothy, Illysia is re-asserting Lhaa's point and you know it. :P
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Yeah Lhaa often does make valid but unfortunate observations. Sorry, but you can't accommodate those who don't speak up. Nobody practices Lahar(sp?) in RL. However, you can till do things based on observations made from within the game. Oh but it should be noted that regular players are in fact wasting their lives reading these post even if they don't jump into the fray. ;)
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Yeah Lhaa often does make valid but unfortunate observations.
Awww such cute way to say I'm a pessimistic bastard. Love you too! XD
(but as a proof of the forums are nowhere to fix the problems at you just have to check our last 20 posts... ;)
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Well interpret it how you wish but it is unfortunate that we never hear from everybody. Oh, And... :-* ;D
It never was meant as a way to solve anything, just a place to vent and get stuff off your chest. :P
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Hm... If I was to take everything off everyone's chest that has posted thus far, I could make a killing in exercise balls...
-
Oh but it should be noted that regular players are in fact wasting their lives reading these post
True... :P :whistling:
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Hm... If I was to take everything off everyone's chest that has posted thus far, I could make a killing in exercise balls...
Er... random.... ::| That made no sense whatsoever.
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Oh Illysia. If only Volume III of Toenail had made it to publishing, you would.
-
Alright people, out of my thread... Shoo! Go discuss the worth of the forums in forum-worth threads. This is the community check thread, a place for oldbies to come, post something useless, and maybe even get their heads bitten off for reminiscing once in a while.
To get back to the initial topic of the thread: if you oldbies want to know what the community is like, well... umm... how can I say this tactfully... have you ever seen Event Horizon? :P
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Most oldbies aren't in game specifically because they know what part of the community is like. It does need a bit of a change but there is still hope. The RP situation in game runs in cycles and we just have to catch it on the uptick and then run with it. \\o//
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Wow, this thread feels like old times... Pointless but heated arguments overusing SAT words, personal attacks, impersonal attacks being taken personally, and of course the eventual and inevitable derailing into completely off-topic conversation. It's almost like 2005 all over again!
Oh, and for the record you are all wrong but, I refuse to tell you why or how to fix it. :P
@Phinehas: Get back here, since when are you one that will let a bunch of "newbs" run you off from your own forum thread? [Awesome timing, I was writing this up right as you"kicked everyone out." I think I may be able to see the future... but not early enough to be able to use it for anything worthwhile...]
@Illysia: Don't worry, no one wants to start a war at The Stonehead. ;) Besides, we all know you already have your hands full putting up with Timmothy. :P
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The forum never changes, it just goes into dormancy and then picks up where it left off. And you just think were wrong cause we're not you. :P Eh, you don't know any better than we do. ;) And as for Timmothy, nah, I just give him the boot. ;) Oh by the way, get back in game more. ;D
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Ow! The smilies! They burnss uss, precioussss...
Seriously Illysia. Thats waaay too many smilies for such a small post ::|!
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Ow! The smilies! They burnss uss, precioussss...
Seriously Illysia. Thats waaay too many smilies for such a small post ::|!
Thank goodness someone said it. I was afraid that if I said it, I'd be told that my past experience of smileys was invalid in the current community and that I had to play the game to understand how many smileys was currently acceptable. :P
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And finally, pettiness. The cycle is complete, my trip down PS forums memory lane can now draw to a close...
*Makes an escape using a smiley flashbang!*
:) :D ;D ::) :P :innocent: :whistling: ::| :love: :devil: :@#\
-
You won't get away so easy! (to be read in the voice of the guards from Aladdin)
*Incompetently chases Marqsaynt down the alleys.*
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And finally, pettiness
/me hits Marqsaynt with a fish
Bah! Its all in good fun :whistling:
I was afraid that if I said it, I'd be told that my past experience of smileys was invalid in the current community
@Phineas: Well ofcourse Phiney. Firstly, you have completely missed the point of what Illysia has been trying to say with all those smilies. Secondly, you are a fine one to bring up smiley over usage, as you keep treating her as a giddy girl who could not possibly know what smileys are for. She has been at this long enough to have seen most of what you have. She values your views on smiley conservation whether she agrees with it or not. She would ask that you show the same courtesy.
Further, she never said you have no clue how to use smileys. You are apparently just not registering the need to change the number of them per post in light of the fundamental change in the game community's gheyness. If you are all that good at using smilies, you will be able to adapt with less "it's the community's fault for being fairies" reasoning. Complaining about it does nothing, becoming gay and wearing frilly underpants to get around it does.
Also, earned or not, you need to get over the fact that the you and the players you are familiar with are not the only ones to have the ability to use smilies. Whether you like her smilies or not, they are still valid and in most recent cases as good anything in your posts. She has some credibility here whether you wish to acknowledge it or not. More importantly, She has been working on specifically how to get around not having "enough smiley usage in the community" instead of speculating on how to bring back the good old days of smiley abuse.(well, at least now. she admits she did the same thing earlier but she has gotten over it) She'd be less likely to sound like she is against anything if you would stop going on about what the community was, instead of accepting the fact that it's simply full of little girls now. Oh and might she mention that mentioning Agara was not name dropping, She has no need to name drop, She mentioned her because Agara was important to her being a drama queen. Whether Agara abused smilies or not, if it wasn't for her Illysia would have never overused smilies. She was the first person Illysia started interacting with regularly and it lead to her starting to use over 9000 smilies per post.
@Illysia: No offense meant madam :). I couldn't resist after phiney's comment. ;D
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Well, you see what happens when I don't use that many smileys. Some people go taking what I say personally, not to mention Marqsaynt should be used to it by now. And I will have you know that I am training for the next community awards. Most Use of Smileys will be mine. :P
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This thread is so 2005.
:love:
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I'm glad you feel nostalgic Neko :-* and nice one Auran. ;D I'd add a few more smilies but I'm afraid I don't have enough room for more. :o ;) ;D
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as a side note, phinny killed my fenki char in 2005 and she's still in the DR since no one ever came to 'rescue' her. poor poor fenki char. banished away for all eternity, never to see the living ever again.
stupid phinny and his magics.
Overpowered I tells you!
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And the moral of the story is: Be nice to players for they may remember you when they move up in the ranks. <insert load of smiles here>
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You won't get away so easy! (to be read in the voice of the guards from Aladdin)
*Incompetently chases Marqsaynt down the alleys.*
Hmm... Aladdin, huh?
Fine. I'll come back but only if I get a hot princess AND a pet monkey. Oh, and anyone that calls me a "street rat" gets punched in the nose. :P
Wow, this thread feels like old times... ...It's almost like 2005 all over again!
This thread is so 2005.
:love:
Pshh, Neko, now I know why you were a tiger for Halloween... Copy cat!
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I am not allowed to agree with people?
~~~~~~~~~
You're just jealous of my costume!
-
i actually can't now, but maybe later, auran
Well well! I seem remember someone telling oldbies to quit whining and do something. Was it you by any chance little one? Oh but that would be so ironic wouldn't it now ;) Tsk.Tsk. Kids these days ::).
um, no. i have schoolwork. i can't dedicate much of my time to ps. nor do i want to.
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Back on topic.
The Community is degrading.
Our morals and ethics are lackluster, oh wait, thats real life, I mean, our ability to roleplay is lackluster.
People godmod too much.
Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
You're all welcome. I just brought this topic back to full swing, or what it will eventually resume to.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed here to do not represent the view of BloodedIrishman Co. despite their being posted by Bloodedirishman.
NOTE* BloodedIrishman Co. is comprised of BloodedIrishman and his empty beer bottles.
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I don't remember killing anyone, Neko... If it's any consolation, Phinehas is dead, too... in a sense.
-
I am not allowed to agree with people?
~~~~~~~~~
You're just jealous of my costume!
Only mostly...
-
*lurks*
:oops: Sneak check failed, damn natural 1s.
-
damn natural 1s.
Ah the modern age of RPGs.... I missed the import of that almost entirely.... :whistling:
-
Where's Hide in Plain Sight when you need it. Dang I knew I should have taking a class level in Shadowdancer.
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Oh good, there's Cyl. I've been needing to tie up some hostages.
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Oh good, there's Cyl. I've been needing to tie up some hostages.
/me tries to distract Phinehas with something shiny
Run Cyl! Run! Oh I almost forgot, watch out for the glitch around the corner!
-
lady z, it ain't the glithces you got to worry about. it's the grues.
-
lady z, it ain't the glithces you got to worry about. it's the grues.
Only in the dark. :whistling:
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Happy Festivus people! :sorcerer:
/me puts up the festivus pole.
Let the orgies begin!! :devil:
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wat the hepl
codine is weirdd omg
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Must...resist...desire...to...revive...community!
Hello people...and Phin! Tybalt reporting for duty (yes, I failed my sneak check). How are you guys doing?
I just finished reading every post in this thread and have to say I hadn’t experienced anything like it since 1996 when the President of the United States tried to negotiate with the aliens in Independance Day. “Peeeaaaace? Nooo peeaaace!”. What did sound interesting was the idea of having a discussion group where suggestions for changes could be made. How did that turn out?
P.S. Auran, I used to think your rethorical skills couldn’t be improved much further. I certainly hope your character’s lust for world domination and chaos never gives the real you any ideas or WWIII might be closer than we think...
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Just checking in to say Hello!
Think I might actually pop into game to see who is still around :D
Cheers
Anfa
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I certainly hope your character’s lust for world domination and chaos never gives the real you any ideas or WWIII might be closer than we think...
Dude! I am really not *THAT* evil. I just want pogroms for elves and maybe a jihad or two against the gnomes. But then, deep down in their hearts, doesn't everybody?? :innocent:
What did sound interesting was the idea of having a discussion group where suggestions for changes could be made. How did that turn out?
Yeah I guess I owe an apology to all you folks for that. Me and a few other people from this thread were about to start something, and that's as far as I could get this time. I blame work. I got promoted which basically led to me now having a metric sh!theap of extra work :(.
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I'm still here :)
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Still nothing from grono though :(
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Shh! Do not mention anything related to the queen of the almighty Black Order. Her name should rest in piece.
:innocent:
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I would be much obliged if you lurking ancient oldbies ;) would come back in game. :thumbup: We need people who know the difference between regular chatter and RP chatter in game. :sweatdrop:
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wat the hepl
codine is weirdd omg
haha i don't remember posting this. i was high on codeine hydrosomething. ;D
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I would be much obliged if you lurking ancient oldbies ;) would come back in game. :thumbup: We need people who know the difference between regular chatter and RP chatter in game. :sweatdrop:
It's weird, I'm catching that more and more oldbies are coming back into the game. As a midbie, I have to say this is great. I get to play with people I don't know, but they aren't newbs. :thumbup:
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Still nothing from grono though :(
bring back the crystal hunt, and she might come back :whistling:
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And who might you be dear? For you know nothing about my queen. Crystal hunt? Ha.
:love:
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i'm still here too and somewhat active in game too :)
if anyone cares that is :P
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I do. Elvi was a role model, back when he was kickass and restless. Now he's cynical and lazy. Change back!
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elvi rolemodel? peh quit your jibber jabber :P
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-Summer is getting me all hot and bothered.
-Only 1.25 school days left.
-My head is groggy and full of sickness and acetaminophen.
-I need more than 4-5 hours of sleep at night.
-I miss you PS. I will try and play more than just 1 or 2 hours a day once summer comes about.
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Once again with the small fry cluttering up my thread. Yeesh. If you're not at least 3 years old in Planeshift time then go play with the other children and try not to bother the grown-ups.
Hey there, Tybalt. Have to say, I did not expect to ever see you on here again. Good to see you. Brings back the old times. Wonder if Dyari still has the Ashes site stashed away somewhere. Could probably track him down.
Hey Auran or anyone, shoot me a message if anything truly interesting is happening. I'm about ready to do something creative again.
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I'm about ready to do something creative again.
Please do... In fact, it would be funny to see Zandral and Phinehas in the tavern together as there is no way he'd not comment on her meanness and there is no way she'd take his criticism quietly.
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This thread has been an interesting read for someone who has not actually entered into the game as of yet; and trying to get a feel of what to expect.
The interesting part, for me, is that all the participants to the actual topic seem to be on the same page yet they don't seem to recognize that fact.
From my experience as a D&D GM there is no question that new players need some guidance on the aspect of RP. In that sense Illysia's input is an important aspect to any game world. Just as important is the larger picture which the OP and other oldies have brought to the thread. The two aspects are not opposed to one another in my estimation.
Perhaps the thread would have had less of a conflict feel to it if all parties could see that both approaches could work in tandem. When bringing in a new players to my game world the other major plots do not get put on hold. The new players are simply brought into them when the GM feels they are ready for them.
Perhaps my points do not apply to the Planeshift RP; yet it would surprise me if not.
Anyway, hopefully the needed hardware will be available to me tomorrow to actually get in the PlaneShift world; so as to be able to draw my own conclusions.
It would be a grave mistake, in my opinion, to not welcome input from experienced oldies; as it would be to rebuke anyone in the trenches who is trying their best to make things better for all regardless of rl motives.
Bottom line is to make a better gaming world for all involved n'est pas?
- Nova the brazen n00b
[ Edit: Now in Planeshift and it appears my opinions still hold up. So far nothing earthshaking has happened RP-wise; yet all that have interacted with me have done so IC and all have been helpful. ]
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Once again with the small fry cluttering up my thread. Yeesh. If you're not at least 3 years old in Planeshift time then go play with the other children and try not to bother the grown-ups.
Hey there, Tybalt. Have to say, I did not expect to ever see you on here again. Good to see you. Brings back the old times. Wonder if Dyari still has the Ashes site stashed away somewhere. Could probably track him down.
Hey Auran or anyone, shoot me a message if anything truly interesting is happening. I'm about ready to do something creative again.
I'm 3 years old I aaaam i aaaaaam remember me Phinehas? The good times? :D hey i was wondering who else is still around i wouldnt mind taking part in some creativity
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Looks like not a lot of people. I've officially drafted Illysia into the oldbie club, so that makes two of us. Don't know if anyone else is around.
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Of course they are around, they are just lurking.
*looks directly at you and taps on your computer screen* Yeah you.... I know you're there. ;)
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I refuse to be classified as 'old'.
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I played this for 5 to 6 years now. I do not think I am old
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You are Neko, you are.
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Of course they are around, they are just lurking.
*looks directly at you and taps on your computer screen* Yeah you.... I know you're there. ;)
Anyone know how to get fingerprints off the -inside- of your computer screen?
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Old people:
neko kyouran
marqsaynt
phinehas
Illysia
sexy young people:
bloodedIrishman
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Well, excuse me but...
I enter my own name in my own original category
Sexy Old People:
Duraza
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I think Phinehas goes into the bitter-old-people-who-arent-actually-old category.
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Of course they are around, they are just lurking.
*looks directly at you and taps on your computer screen* Yeah you.... I know you're there. ;)
Anyone know how to get fingerprints off the -inside- of your computer screen?
You need one of those swirly twirly screensavers that smudges the heck out of everything on the screen, or possibly a sea-snail aquarium...
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Anyone know how to get fingerprints off the -inside- of your computer screen?
If your character gets CSI Skill you could get them to do it for you. :D
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Coming up on 7 years, myself, this upcoming January.
*holds his back and gets out a cane*
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I've officially drafted Illysia into the oldbie club, so that makes two of us.
Psh, noob. Only Aendar can do that.
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I've officially drafted Illysia into the oldbie club, so that makes two of us.
Psh, noob. Only Aendar can do that.
We're still lacking a good deal of evidence towards this being a club we should want to join :|
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We're still lacking a good deal of evidence towards this being a club we should want to join :|
Well I'm not going to lie to you. The oldbie club is not all fun and games. Many responsibilities ensue.
First of all, you have to act as if you were the single most important thing in Planeshift despite not playing the game at all.
You also have to make sure you remain unpleasant towards your fellow oldbies as often as possible.
And last but not least, to avoid having our super-secret tree house soiled, first thing in the morning one of the oldbies is appointed to take Annah for a walk.
It's a tough job, really.
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act? i am the single most important thing in ps.
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We're still lacking a good deal of evidence towards this being a club we should want to join :|
It's not a matter of wanting to join it's a matter of falling into it because you now fit there. Like the AARP but more irresistible. ;D
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I'm still a noob at a little over five years.
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I'm still a noob at a little over five years.
I can vouch for this.
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I've officially drafted Illysia into the oldbie club, so that makes two of us.
Psh, noob. Only Aendar can do that.
Actually, I can pretty much do whatever I want. If Aendar doesn't like it, he can tell me so himself. :P
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I'm still a noob at a little over five years.
I can vouch for this.
You never did like me. :P
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On a dark, cloudy day was Phinehas born
made of his father's seed and bred of grouch and scorn
Absconding his mother's teet he feasted on the raw meat of ponies
Soon he grew up to become a lad that despised halfwits and phonies
His favorite pastime the slaughtering of baby doe
Yet he found his hometown so rife with simpletons he simply had to go
Across the land he roamed and looked
Still eating the raw meat of baby animals uncooked
He enjoys excursions to flower fields where he puts a rose in his hair
Finding time to enjoy a chocolate-covered ice cream at the fair
Stealing candy from babies
Making out with the bearded ladies
He found a pastime within the forum of PS
Using his heavy-handed critique he obliterated guild structural BS
To this day he lurks in the sub-forum shadows
striking from the dark to send weak guilds to the forum-gallows
Phinehas he is still
Forever not without his fill
Of butchering fools
and slaying tools
-
Actually, I can pretty much do whatever I want.
Yeah, in the past I went through this teen rebel phase myself.
-
Well this thread certainly turned out long and as such it takes a while to read through all the pages, but I can see it gathered quite a bit of interesting material over all this time. I used to be "quite" active back in the fabled "old" community, hence I believe I can actually post something of value. It should also put this thread back on track.
@Illy: I can really appreciate what you're trying to do for this community. Maybe not because I particularly care where Planeshift is going (although it is nice to see it is going somewhere), but because I used to do pretty much the same thing - try to guide the community towards some decent direction. I experienced better and worse results, but as I look back at those days, my sincere advise is:
Don't push it too much, don't turn yourself into a martyr - it's not worth your frustration.
Auran is almost right in saying people don't listen to logical arguments (it's pretty basic knowledge in social psychology); almost - because this knowlege applies mainly to vocal communication - one, where the listener is faced with the difficulty of maintaing their attention and given little time to analyse received information or the current situation.
Should you ever be tempted to listen to Auran and manipulate people on discussion boards, don't. That's stupid. Most techniques that work like charm in vocal conversations will make you look like a goof should you use them in here. Even in vocal conversations you need to use proper intonation, register, etc. What are you going to do on discussion boards? Bold your text? :)
This having been said, I did read your posts and, sadly, I do have to agree with Auran that you will not achieve much by just trying to be rational with the community members. This doesn't mean all those who attack your ideas are necessarily stupid, or jerks. It just shows that people automatically reject the idea that they're wrong. Leave it be. The more you argue with other people, the more you force them to prove to themselves that they are right and you wrong. If you leave it alone, with time they will cool down and perhaps start to question their own ideas.
Remeber, this isn't a vocal conversation. Use it to your advantage - your ideas remain written in your threads, you don't need to repeat them. The seed has been planted and has a chance to grow into a plant, eventually.
And if not? I say don't worry. The present community is already great in my opinion.
Don't listen to these tales of of how Planeshift used to be 7 or 8 years ago. These things Annah, Auran and Phinehas are saying? Nothing but fables.
Annah simply misses being important and having his friends around. It's not that the community was better in his times. He never regained his postion within the community. Simple as that.
Auran keeps talking about how "we", the players managed to create scenarios that pushed the community forwards. It was, in fact, quite the contrary. His idea of creating an evil force was actually abusing the fact there was hardly any moderation on forums and no such thing as Game Masters ingame (in other words troll-fest). It was completely OOC behaviour, just as about 90% of things that were happening ingame. If there was rivalisation going around, more often than not it was player vs player. Our inability to seperate game from real life was defining this "splendid" community and resulted in us jumping to one another's throats. Sure, now that we look back it all appears so fascinating, but at the time it was hell. I'm really amazed by how you guys handle these things. Even if there's some OOC still going on, it's not nearly as common as 7 years ago.
And as to what Phinehas is saying... Well he's Phinehas, c'mon...
Anyway, the community today is great, seriously. I'm not really playing Planeshift anymore, but it's not because of the community. Sure, I think you guys take this realistic roleplay business a bit too seriously (being sort of "old school", I believe rp should be light-hearted, sometimes goofy, but above all enjoyable and fun), but hey, whatever works for ya. I'm sure you guys find it fun one way or another.
I would definitely play Planeshift the way it is now. It's just that I'm not much of a gamer anymore ;) so it would be hard to dedicate myself to the community. Plus, it won't run on my ye olde 'puter.
I think the same applies for other oldbies. They just moved on with their lives and now it would be hard to find oneself in the community again - no matter how great it is \o/
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* reads wall of text *
Draky being mean (yet, a philosopher), that sure is a nice and pleasant view...
-
Draklar it was great to hear your perspective from the past. Although just two months on PS it has been my feeling that a lot of oldie critic has been deeply tempered in nostalgia and a reluctance to letting go. Its good to hear an oldie that revels past glories yet has not become mired in them. My experience of daily play, over the last two month, has been all that had been hoped for; yet from reading the forums before play was not what was expected.
The bemoaning on the forums to the past does a disservice to the community in my opinion. The vindictiveness expressed, by some, to the developers seems beyond the pale in my estimation.
Moving on is a difficult thing and nostalgia is a heavy weight to throw off for some... yet to not do so is to become stuck in the past and missing what the present offers. Software changes are bound to alter game play. The structure of game mechanics trumps pretending how things may have gone. Due to my lure to dice, my preference is the former.
So long as the Administration continues to support the mandate of enforced role playing of characters and strict IC, it is my feeling that PS is on the right course to bring in new players and to keep an immersive game world in the process.
Oh yeah, let's not forget that it is that.... a game world and we but players in it.
- Nova
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Indeed, the tiny bit I saw from the old days was pretty chaotic. It was fun though, light-hearted and goofy (at least it seemed that way to me, since no one could be serious then) and there was fierce, lovely dedication to it. There wasn't a game to play, so it's obvious people resorted on the entertainment they could extract from PS related forums. Heck, some people even hacked websites ftw.
It's good that people were finally able to grasp that PlaneShift is a mmoRPG somewhere along the line. I'd say 2, 3 years ago they got roleplaying and gaming in the same conceptual place. That was good.
I see less people posting messages just for the sake of being read, less discussions that are about rhetoric and not about getting to a conclusion. I also see less whine, and less cheesy drama. Maybe it's in my eyes though, since I've stopped looking at those things. I wonder how much of the development we see in a community isn't actually the reflection of the development we've made ourselves.
I'm not sure of this, but maybe someone who isn't happy with the way things are going looks at this forums and says "These people make no sense and they need to be lead somewhere better." I'm also not sure of what that thought is able to accomplish... It seems to me people around here are simply reactive: the more the game gives, the more they get...
It may also be the fact that new players enter this PlaneShift as it currently is and personify it, while old players either pack their things and go or do as the new ones do.
Concluding, it seems to me the community evolves as a sum of how the game progresses (management, opportunity, game mechanics) and how its members grow (new players joining, old players getting better). One player is easily substituted by another player with similar ideas and so no single person plays a relevant role around here.
We're exactly where we should be and we're going where we're meant to go. We don't know where any of that is, so you all better work good and wish for the best.
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That's Sangwa for you... always killing an interesting discussion with his quiet logic.
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What Sangwa said. Hear, hear!
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The less time you waste with discussions, the more time you have for the Empire, Phinehas. :D Also, good to see you posting.
Thanks Verden!
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The Empire never had my loyalty, Sangwa. I was there for you. Your raging broodlings were always beneath my interest.
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And I'm forever thankful to your amazing person.
I hope you're at least playing, then.
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Not playing anymore, sadly. Working on my own project in the couple hours a week I have to spare from the rest of life.
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What's the project of/about Phinehas?
You're not the only one struggling to find time to do things. -_-'
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It's a game, a game, isn't it?
I remember someone mentioning it.
-
It's a game, a game, isn't it?
I remember someone mentioning it.
Shakespeare.
-
It's a game, a game, isn't it?
I remember someone mentioning it.
Shakespeare.
A game, a game, my kingdom for a game?
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It'll take more than a kingdom I'm afraid... Anyone know where the old farts in this thread went? They all decided to disappear again. ;D Well not all, we still have Sangwa and Jekkar at least. ;)
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It is a game. Don't think anyone could've mentioned it. Nobody around here is involved. Plus, not open source or free.
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Venorel yawns. (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=37669.msg435913#msg435913)
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It's a game, a game, isn't it?
I remember someone mentioning it.
Shakespeare.
A game, a game, my kingdom for a game?
All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages.
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You old farts get in game, instead of blabbering about it. Dudes, the Empire's hot again. We've conquered half hydlaa already. In a... spiritual way.
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You old farts get in game, instead of blabbering about it. Dudes, the Empire's hot again. We've conquered half hydlaa already. In a... spiritual way.
Empires will fall...
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Yup, fall on your heads like a rain of meteors.
So, keeping on topic... The Community in-game is rocking dudes. I haven't had to tell anyone to be IC, or to stop godmodding or whatever in the weeks I've been playing. Also, most people I come up to don't mind spending a while to chat, even when they're training, forging or whatever.
I say you nay-sayers that bathmouth RP in PS are just bored. And if that's the case... Well! Just join the Empire.
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Yup, fall on your heads like a rain of meteors.
So, keeping on topic... The Community in-game is rocking dudes. I haven't had to tell anyone to be IC, or to stop godmodding or whatever in the weeks I've been playing. Also, most people I come up to don't mind spending a while to chat, even when they're training, forging or whatever.
I say you nay-sayers that bathmouth RP in PS are just bored. And if that's the case... Well! Just join the Empire.
Lay off the pot Sangwa, I know you do a jang once in a while but this is going too far.
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Nah, his problem is he didn't actually play at the peak of RP so even the diminished state looks pretty good to him. ;) Gosh I guess it really wasn't all that good when you guys were playing.
*giggles and runs away*
Also, positive talk only works as long as people are still half way inclined to believe it. You can swear night is day all you want but people are still gonna look up and see black staring them in the face.
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Also, positive talk only works as long as people are still half way inclined to believe it. You can swear night is day all you want but people are still gonna look up and see black staring them in the face.
Yeah, so, when was the last time you looked up from the forums, to see if things were black or white?
And the other two, stop being fat.
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Hehe, we all know I do what I damn please. That's why everyone loves me.
PS: I forgot about my tenacity. It also rocks. And I'm thin.
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Hehe, we all know I do what I damn please. That's why everyone loves me.
PS: I forgot about my tenacity. It also rocks. And I'm thin.
/me crushes Sangwa below his immense weight.
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Yeah, so, when was the last time you looked up from the forums, to see if things were black or white?
*ahem* Looking up is what gets me to where I am. :oops: So, when was the last time you looked up to see if it was black? ;)
And stop trying to trick people into doing better better by telling them it is better. That only gives way to more complacency. ;D
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Well, we can always try replacing one addiction with another more benign one... how about turning him into a TiddlyWinks addict? It might keep him occupied long enough. ;) And on a side note, you seemed to be away recently so I didn't drop by. The only reason to have come would have been to rummage through your things.... hmm.... come to think of it, that might have been a good idea. ;D
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Ooh, then we need something dull and repetitive that will turn his mind off so that he doesn't have to actually concentrate on it.... I know, get him a pick axe and send him to te gold mines. You can always put the extra gold in the Empire's stores or what have you...
*runs off to go rummage through Rinenud's things*
Wheee.... I'll mind the delicate things like the crystal and sanity...
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Drugs, just say "no".
Stop trying to ruin my life. I need them to like me.
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Sorry for the double post. But I think I should do a small summary about the evolution of the RP Community in PS, through the years I've been around, so as to situate the reader at the actual time. Due to some ridiculous threads about RP I have come to think this is utterly necessary.
Era 1: Before the Fighting System
November 13, 2003 (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=6363.msg65955#msg65955)
ROFLMAO
I thought this was worth some discussion (read: I can\'t not touch this) but it\'s more related to guild section than GD :rolleyes:
Check out this link that the Forsaken Ones have uncovered using their new ultra-secret spies in the Cabal\'s own PUBLIC (yes, that\'s right, public) forum.
Hahahahahahahahaha........
This was pretty much the high point of RP in that time. The only thing that's actually compliant to the setting is the expression of feelings, which is currently allowed. There is no IC or OOC in this period, there's just doing whatever little you can, be it hacking, infiltrating forums or simply annoying someone by jumping them with your char.
Forums are the main battle ground, though plenty of times people take the forum discussion to the 3D version of IRC.
Era 2: The Divergence (Or the creation of RPers and PLers)
September 03, 2007 (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=29877.0)
who has money in a game where you were able to mine gold and get money 24/7? Correct, the powerlevellers. And what piece of the pie do the roleplayers, those that spent their time enhancing the community with their roleplay instead of mining, get? Not much..
Suddenly there is fighting, crafting comes in as well and lots of stuff happen. So, it's fun to be in-game now. Well, at least mildly. But everything's mild around here anyway.
Forums become more irrelevant, now a mere distorted mirror of what happens in-game.
From the undifferentiated goo that was the population of the previous era, two races rise. The PLers (powerlevelers) that endlessly mine the caves of game mechanics and the RPers ("roleplayers") who fanatically pursuit the exploitation of the setting.
As happens with all humans, differences generate war. Also PLers don't want to tire themselves with knowing or respecting the setting and RPers don't want to get their butts kicked by those dirty PLers.
At this time RP wasn't enforced in any way, so you could pretty much do anything you liked, besides being overly rude to people.
Though people say PLers and RPers are incompatible, there were many types of half breeds: PLers who played themselves in-game, RPers who PLed in their free time to the point of creating an amorfous char.
(The quote selected isn't the best for this case, since at the time it was mentioned the problem was already being solved, but it expresses it well.)
Era 3: Current Era
October 29, 2008 (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=33964.0)
Would you like to see roleplaying more strictly enforced and more highly encouraged on Laanx?
Developers ask RPers if they want RP more strictly enforced? "Hell yeah!" say the RPers, finally seeing themselves in the last 3 letters at the end of MMORPG.
The developers throw the PLers into a dark abyss and give Zeroping to the RPers who revel in their new, almost empty world. But RPers aren't happy yet. Why? Well they are so creative that each of them can have their own idea about it. The reality is that the system is still in development, settings team has to fix quests rather than improving the concept (making quests roleplayble), there seems to be no time to create general or side plots (settings team/GM oriented) and the GM's aren't perfect human beings and neither do they have the ability to mind read and tell right away who is right or wrong (keep in mind I am one of those creative RPers.)
Meanwhile, at the abyss, PLers do their thing without a worry on their silly heads.
Conclusion
PlaneShift is heading somewhere and taking its community with it. The game went from 3D IRC to MMORPG, while we evolved from bored trolls to mediocre RPers. Since the crying and drama has been continuous, like most other inputs that have been present through all PS's life, I think the conditions of our improvement remain and we're headed for even more greatness.
Please keep with your critiques, dumb opinions and whatnot. Just pipe down on the drama, since there doesn't seem to be much reason for it.
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logic isn't allowed on the internet Sangy, sorry.
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Nice summary Sangwa. This divergence, which preoccupies the more mediocre elements on this forum, is an entirely self-inflicted wound, and one that is actually more apparent than real. Perhaps once the atmosphere here becomes more congenial one can address this.
You forgot a comma.
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Why didn't you guys mention that Sangwa was clairvoyant? Since he was gone for at least 3 years in that long span of time, it means he would have to be psychic to know what actually happened in game during that time because you really can't go by the forums for anything useful. ;) But as for the forums, that divide has largely been resolved as many RPers and PLers just decided to settle their differences by sulking in opposite corners away from PS while blaming each other for everything in their minds.
And on an even further off topic note, if it works for cheese I imagine it can work for Jekkar too.
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Oh, it's really quite simple. The more disagreeable something is, like for instance being stinky, the more of a delicacy it is likely to be. That being the case, Jekkar might want to avoid foodie places lest he be considered a delicacy.
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I'm surprised you didn't notice it earlier, dear Illysia.
This divergence, which preoccupies the more mediocre elements on this forum, is an entirely self-inflicted wound, and one that is actually more apparent than real. Perhaps once the atmosphere here becomes more congenial one can address this.
Agreed. I was just mentioning what was considered at the time, not what I felt about it. The RPer vs PLer issue was idiotic. The actual question of the day was RP enforcement, I think. We'll speak of the past somewhere else though, right?
It is your dependence on illegal substances that has ruined you old boy, not I. Denial: the mark of an addict.
Hey, I'm just denying your offensive approach to drugs here. They save lives, they build empires and they please me.
EDIT: I love you.
@ neko: I'm such a bandit.
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As long as it pleases Sangwa.....
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As long as it pleases Sangwa.....
If only everyone was half as smart as you...
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/me grins
You amuse me, Sangwa, that is all. ;D
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/me grins
You amuse me, Sangwa, that is all. ;D
Entertainment is what we're all here for. Besides Illysia, she's just here to get annoyed.
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Oh. So you only make good remarks purposelessly... Very interesting.
Junkies are also responsible for 80% of all art created, so don't be cautious, be thankful.
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Besides Illysia, she's just here to get annoyed.
Actually, I'm here for Rinenud.
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Oh, it's really quite simple. The more disagreeable something is, like for instance being stinky, the more of a delicacy it is likely to be. That being the case, Jekkar might want to avoid foodie places lest he be considered a delicacy.
Not only am I delicious but healthy for you too.
It's funny though, last summer I had a camambert in France, it had ripened so well the second I put the fork towards my face the smell gave me a out-of-body experience. I imagine it would be this for many people too once they'd get a wiff of Jekkar.
To stay on topic: welcome back Phinehas.
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Besides Illysia, she's just here to get annoyed.
Actually, I'm here for Rinenud.
Thanks for agreeing with me Illysia.
I suggest you correct what I wrote. There was no clear purpose.
See what I mean? Always licking my boots. So annoying.
Pardon Sangwa, he is just coming off a particularly bad trip at the moment.
Watch out for the bad trips, kids.
Please enlighten us all with the corroborative data for this statement.
I could say Beatles and I could name a great portuguese poet, but I doubt you'd know either. So I I'll just leave this (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/34123.php) here.
Kids, just keep in mind most of these artists lived horrible lives, filled with existential problems, needless drama, shameful diseases and accidents and immense inner turmoil.
PS: Also, if Phinehas was really here this post would have never dropped so low. He's like... the... thing that shines in the middle of, like, opaque, dirty things... Yeah. That's it.
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Kids, just keep in mind most of these artists lived horrible lives, filled with existential problems, needless drama, shameful diseases and accidents and immense inner turmoil.
Sangwa's an artist! \\o// Sorry, but that was a bit too easy.
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Perfect. That faithfully sums up my life. All of it. And keeping in tone with my current mercurial dispositions, I don't want you to go away anymore. I think that's the closest thing to love you have ever expressed and I'm basking in it.
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I keep coming back every Christmas (Nov-Jan period)
It's been like this for 2008, 2009 and I guess this year too. See, I began posting again here.
Some kind of paranormal force... Nostalgia, perhaps. :flowers:
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I keep coming back every Christmas (Nov-Jan period)
It's been like this for 2008, 2009 and I guess this year too. See, I began posting again here.
Some kind of paranormal force... Nostalgia, perhaps. :flowers:
That's gaming season at my location. Too cold to go to the beach and new toys to play with after Christmas. 8)
Welcome back!
- Nova
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So, where's Aelya? :innocent:
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So, where's Aelya? :innocent:
Sangwa's bathtub, ground up in order to be snuffed in.
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\\o// \\o// \\o//
Since this is now my third real life holiday season playing PS, this is the time of year I really look forward to IG :D
In the past there have been fun and silly GM events, surprising changes in locations like Kada Els, gory and gross options for tavern food, ::|
and it's always great to be surprised by different locations of things, animated NPCs, etc...
And Jaycol usually organizes a seasonal festival or two..
I know we're down in numbers and its a busy time, but the more folks running around, the more fun for everyone ( everyone who's looking for fun anyway)....
So here's my little prod/ suggestion... Let me encourage EACH GUILD LEADER to organize a party,
an open party hosted by your Guild and 'staffed' by guild members, at times that the parties do not overlap, and at different locations?
Just a kinda ...oh shoot ,there's a name for this, girls like 'em, when you go from house to house for different
parts of a meal? a traveling feast? help me out, ladies! :o
I haven't checked the PS calendar for a while (ok because I can't really remember where it is ::|) but maybe if that tool still exists,
folks could pick times and sign up for 2 -4 hour slots over some weekend? What do you think?
Roled
the party elf :flowers:
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I don't recall Halloween being on PS's calender, but I'm sure some GM will probably play a ghost in the tavern and lol at people this Halloween.
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halloween on PS is usually getting turned into a mob model for the more OOC end of the spectrum or getting a ghostie filled plot for the more RP end of the spectrum. Although mugs full of evil beer making death threats does sorta push the limits a bit. ;) Christmas used to bring snow but I don't think snow has fallen for awhile.
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I saw snow a few months ago... Or maybe that was just rain... ???
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Just a kinda ...oh shoot ,there's a name for this, girls like 'em, when you go from house to house for different
parts of a meal? a traveling feast? help me out, ladies
"Progressive dinner" is the phrase that comes to mind.
Edit: I accidentally the whole right bracket.
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Thats the one Candy!
Thankee! :flowers:
\\o// \\o//
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Roled, you won't find "all the guilds leaders" in this thread, especially not in Hydlaa Plaza. The only things that will be noticed around are antediluvian wrecks like, uhm, Sangwa! If you want to organize something, for the spirit of PlaneShift, do it IC and in the Guilds section of the forum.
Oh, and stop with X types of color and different kind of font sizes. It doesn't make the text easier to read, more like annoying.
Jekkar, arghhh!
:@#\
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Roled's right to ask people to try and give their guilds some image, though I don't like the idea of it being so homogeneous for everyone. Everyone should try to make some sort of timely events, be they fairs, group preaching, gang robbing, whatever. Anyway, most guild leaders will miss this thread.
So you're sticking around Annah? I don't think I've mentioned this before in this forum, but the Empire is recruiting and we need other antediluvian vessels on our team.
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I might stick for a while, and maybe a little more. Though I'll kindly refuse your offer milord, I sense so many weak minds which crave for my corruption...
:devil:
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I might stick for a while, and maybe a little more. Though I'll kindly refuse your offer milord, I sense so many weak minds which crave for my corruption...
:devil:
You do stick, I can give you that.
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Roled, get out of my thread. And take your ridiculous smileys and colorful fonts with you. And get off my lawn, you darn kids!
And yes, Sangwa, I do shine out like that. Now stop arguing with Rinenud in my thread. Don't think that just 'cuase I'm not here right now, I can't roast your butt in purple flame.
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Okay, but just because you asked. Did you like my community summary? :D
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Now stop arguing with Rinenud in my thread.
I don't know if I am looking forward to being a member of these argumentative people ;D
I'm sure I can speak up and tell them to shut their mouths.
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What a great hero you are, acting like you're doing the job when Phinehas has already done it.
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I am meaning in Guild Chat lols, calm Sangwa calm! :D
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*barks and bites the air ravenously*
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*barks and bites the air ravenously*
Hahaha your an enki you meow not bark lols!
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Yeah, you know what? I don't think this PS project's gonna work man, even though it has been having costumers and contributors for more than 10 years. These people, man, they ain't like the old ones. These new players have no style, they just hang around "rp dueling" people for no apparent reason, man. I think this is the cancer that ruins PS, people just, they don't do stuff like I think it should be done and there's no way I can make all of my great ideas count amongst the Devs, that's what's ruining PS. If only every single of my ideas could be transferred instantly to them... If only every player was like I am and loved everything I do...
Dudes, this forum is sucking. Can't we get some beef going? Where's Rinenud?
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You've finally gotten fed up with it all?
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With what? Are you implying I'm fed with this game and project, even though I wrote something completely opposite to that?
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I meant "fed up with the community you've come back to". Shouldn't have put "it all" there.
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RP has gone down the toilet, but its got hope, don't kill a patient before the cancer does :)
But yes I have notice a massive change in RP in the last year, it has gone down hill a lot. I can't really understand why/how someone could play a game if they're just running around PLing like they're on FarmVille or something, just doesn't make sense to me.
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Good, there's the beef I ordered. Not as bloody as I like it... And the recipe's not original either, but that's my fault for choosing this place.
Maybe what's lacking these days is initiative. I've been having good fun with meaningful RP that keeps creating opportunities to develop, mainly because I've been hanging around some pretty interesting characters (don't tell their players though.) You, on the other hand, have been leaning on the old pro-active members who have withered out and died.
Rinenud is the perfect example. He's an opportunist like most of you, flying in circles until he spots a meal someone else is already preparing and dives into it with claws and beak... Just to squawk miserably until the best of us are finished.
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It's no use Rinenud. They won't ever get it right.
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Lol you two are weird...! Do you actually hate each other?
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Lol you two are weird...! Do you actually hate each other?
You can't personally hate people that live thousands of miles away from you. And if you do then that's really just kinda sad.
I think both are just really bored or annoyed with something and vent it off at eachother. If they would start taking things personally I think one of the admins would have intervened.
At least I hope that's it, would be sad to see two people fighting over something like Planeshift.
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Lol you two are weird...! Do you actually hate each other?
They're flirting. :-[ :love:
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Threads discussing Roleplaying, Guilds, Alignments, the Community's Status, Planeshift's Development Status, etc. are always great places to scold those unaware of their useless participation in constructive discussions. I take upon myself the task with dealing with those bothers.
So that just explained my part in the Rinenud-Sangwa thing. Now to speak of Rinenud.
Rinenud's 17 and he believes he enjoys creating drama and what he calls 'overwhelming smaller intellects'.
But even my cold heart gets hurt though when I think about the sadness reality bears... The truth is that these dramas he attempts to create usually make him feel heavy with frustration, since he can't cope with the fact of not being able to genuinely appreciate an activity that doesn't depend on virtual company. It also doesn't help that he has found out that you can't overwhelm rocks, which are the only thing his intellect is capable of competing with. The irony of it all...
So, this community is looking really sharp. <.<
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Venorel cackles gleefully
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Venorel cackles gleefully
My character chuckles amusedly having read this thread, then turns back to the clacker, and swings his axe at it heartfully.
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It's all true, I'm afraid. Please pray for me.
So, we've had some good beef going and everyone's been entertained. Alas, I consider it time to disguise it up with some good, old fashioned, on-topic information. Just so Phinehas doesn't get mad at us.
Now that I've been playing consistently for more than a month I've been able to make some actual observations of the In-Game community. (Note that my previous summary of PlaneShfit's Community status has been mainly based on forum talk, which apparently influences the in-game ongoings. I know, it's amazing!)
So, through all this time I've just found 1 or 2 people being out of character. And just twice or thrice did I spot someone blatantly godmodding. I think this means we have a good tutorial thing going, or that people read up about roleplay when they have to choose the server.
Roleplayers are indeed niche-oriented (i.e. play mostly with the same partners only), but, unlike I previously though, people aren't that autistic. I think it's mostly because of time zone, guild and playing area.
There is a level of tolerance (it's been rare to see people disagree with each other's roleplaying) and people don't mind when you propose a correction to an out-of-place situation (i.e. something that doesn't seem to respect settings or characters.)
Deep plots (plots with lots of material [material means character/object/guild relations and background]) are not easy to come by, since they require the activity of several entities (guilds and niches) at the same time, which is hard to accomplish when these entities and niches are quite small (5-15 players, keep in mind that none of my experiences have any statistical value.) Also, people seem to be open to plots and projects, just as long as they can please the Greeks and the Trojans.
So the in-game community lacks some consistence due to lack of GM-oriented plots (sorry pals, events and quests don't count here), to the fact that players are divided into plenty of small guilds and niches that create little or no material (or fail to transmit it) and because Sangwa isn't running this thing. Oh wait, I said that out loud?
This gave me an idea for a wish.
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[..]
So, we've had some good beef going and everyone's been entertained.
[..]
You were right in that other thread, for myself I had answered "Yes, its been a very long time since I had read Rinenuds posts until the end". With such a start of a post here, you are the best follow-up (assuming I didnt miss anything important after not having read your post to the end).
If you need a platform to act your hilarious egos out, why cant you just create a thread for such? That way people wouldnt be bored straight away after having opened these forums.
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You were right in that other thread, for myself I had answered "Yes, its been a very long time since I had read Rinenuds posts until the end". With such a start of a post here, you are the best follow-up (assuming I didnt miss anything important after not having read your post to the end).
It's just a distraction stunt. Seems it worked for you too: most people won't care enough to read up if one of the posts is so big and informative.
If you need a platform to act your hilarious egos out, why cant you just create a thread for such? That way people wouldnt be bored straight away after having opened these forums.
You do realize you're keeping with our off topicness, right? So, the reason is exactly same reason why you've posted here: we don't care where it happens, we just want to write pseudo-witty stuff.
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Everyone stop bickering. We're here to talk about Phinehas and the community and we should do just that.
I know many here love Phinehas and wish for him to return to Planeshift so we can witness some great roleplaying. The community is going strong and roleplay is improving by the day.
Now to stay on topic: I hate you Rinenud and Sangwa, I hope you leave soon so we don't have to see your whiny posts anymore.
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Jekkar is an old one-eared smelly elitist party-pooper jerkface. his food also is bad for you.
also, hai giuse! what's goign on in dis thread?
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Jekkar is an old one-eared smelly elitist party-pooper jerkface. his food also is bad for you.
Sig that, someone!
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Jekkar is an old one-eared smelly elitist party-pooper jerkface. his food also is bad for you.
Sig that, someone!
I tried, it says I can't : (.
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Neko's power is beyond comprehension...
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Jekkar is an old one-eared smelly elitist party-pooper jerkface. his food also is bad for you.
Sig that, someone!
I tried, it says I can't : (.
Darn :(
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look at your signature. now look at mine. now look at yours. and back to mine. sadly, your signature is not mine.
but it could be. anything is possible with the right coding ability.
i'm on a horse.
(http://www.gunsmokecats.com/imagesGunsmoke/Cats/CatHorse.jpg)
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Everyone, join the Dark Empire.
What? It's not a good time? Just taking advantage of the cute kitten, what could be wrong with that?
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Probably should have just had the old spice guy instead and then interrupt that... oh wait, no... The bulk of girls in game are actually guys so maybe that wouldn't work so well since the female populations is probably still pretty low... ::) However, it might work if you swan dive Sangwa. ;)
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Hey, guys like kittens too. Do you know the amount of guys who play fenkies and menkies? Old spice guys is way beyond.
Swan dive? Sure. I'm a great swimmer.
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Liking kittens is not why so many play enkis... especially in the case of those that play fenkis... I suspect more of a lara croft situation with guys playing fenkis. :P
Swan dive? Sure. I'm a great swimmer.
Well then what are you waiting for man? Get to it. ;)
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Hey, they can choose between kitty croft or blondy croft and they choose kitty.
And I'm waiting for summer and to be back on my island where there's great places to dive in.
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You can swan dive here and then you don't have to worry at all whether it is summer or not. You just have to be careful of this:
Forums Ruin Lives (http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8216/ctraltdelforumsruinlive.jpg)
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Words
Madness!
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i'm in your forum, being your doppelganger.
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i'm in your forum, being your doppelganger.
*touches self inapropriately *
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check your PM box. :whistling:
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check your PM box. :whistling:
I'm scared.
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much better
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much better
Does this mean I get your powers in return?
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you want the power to read hundreds of thousands of lines of text that all are essentially the same 100 or so topics rehashed over an over again without going insane in the process?
i think what we should do to spice things up is have a 'lets all be jekkar' week.
[img]http://starturl.com/cwhrh[/img]
"Jekkar really is Planeshift's very own Van Gogh - an iconoclastic rulebreaker, unheralded by his peers, who must await for history to recognise his talents at a later date." - Rinenud
"Jekkar is an old one-eared smelly elitist party-pooper jerkface." - Neko K
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Good idea!
Three cheers for Jekkar !
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I do not agree with this idea. I vote for a "Join The Dark Empire" siggy year.
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Vote annulled :D
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Vote annulled :D
should have just linked:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb43/nalyn_lover23/Motivators/bbbbb.jpg
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LOL
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*cackles*
Myess... My plan has come to fruition. March my lovelies, march and scatter these forums with one-word posts, bad jokes and senseless trolls! March! MARCH!
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*cackles*
Myess... My plan has come to fruition. March my lovelies, march and scatter these forums with one-word posts, bad jokes and senseless trolls! March! MARCH!
Proof that playing PS or hanging around the forums too long is bad for your health... He finally snapped. ;D
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I snapped a long time ago.
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I like snap turtles.
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*cackles*
Myess... My plan has come to fruition. March my lovelies, march and scatter these forums with one-word posts, bad jokes and senseless trolls! March! MARCH!
Proof that playing PS or hanging around the forums too long is bad for your health... He finally snapped. ;D
You can pratically hear the gears popping in his head ;D
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new week.
this one, you get to figure out who I stole err borrowed it from.
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I'd be lying if I said that the last 4 pages of this forum hasn't made me miss PS more than anything I've seen here in the last 2 years.
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Does this mean you're coming back now? :P
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I'm afraid that's only left to the realm of wishful thinking :P
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Sadly no, I'm not coming back. Not that I wouldn't love to, but I'm just so stinking busy in real life. Besides, people here seem disinclined to worship me, and who needs that aggravation?
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just cast your little bubble that blocks them from messing with you and go on your daily life of being an old grump inside the tavern like normal.
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Has anyone seen Karyuu around? I need a good, trustworthy concept artist.
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I haven't seen her on google chat in a long time. you could try her email addy and see if she still checks it. also might want to maybe try talking with xordan.
last i talked with kay, she was doing some nice game design stuff. gl!
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My, my, Neko. What a...shiny signature you have. ;D
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it's cooler than my previous one.
about 20% cooler.
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Looks to be exactly 20%.
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that is to say 80% less hot
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that is to say 80% less hot
I'd say 100%. Darn fad zombies.
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Get your creepy rainbow signature out of my thread, sirrah!
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oooooooooookkkkkkkkkkk,
changed it just for you phinny
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I'm reading an approximate measurement of 30% cooler.