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Gameplay => In-Game Roleplay Events => Topic started by: Bonifarzia on June 13, 2010, 01:09:02 am

Title: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Bonifarzia on June 13, 2010, 01:09:02 am
Latest poster


(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/bonifarz/BoutPoster2.png)


Time and Place





Statistics

                Victories Rounds    Bouts   
Xitop         14          19         3     
Chessire      10          12         1     
Luu            7          12         2     
Caraick        6          12         2     
Kisoji         4           8         1     
Ova            3           3         1     
Gilyare        3           6         2     
Racip          2           3         1     
Fuge           1           2         1     
Maisent        1           7         1     
Glaciusor      1           7         1     
Fay            0           1         1     
Sulaika        0           1         1     
Heleckie       0           2         1     
Zonthek        0           2         1     
Henetra        0           2         1     
Kaipaber       0           2         1     
Boeven         0           3         1     
                           52         3     



Rules  [with updates]






Betting game rules


(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee47/bonifarz/BataireachtBout.png)
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Illysia on June 13, 2010, 01:20:56 am
ooh... Interesting. :) Nice idea, and making the first hit count more than the damage is a really good idea. And using the group list is pretty thoughtful to.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: verden on June 13, 2010, 01:42:08 am
Illysia and I have something we agree on. Nice presentation, nice idea.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Heleckie on June 13, 2010, 04:01:08 am
Agreed..  Can't wait.... :thumbup:
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Geoni on June 13, 2010, 06:46:19 am
Hmmm I wonder how the "fair conditions" thing works. Anyways, it's a great idea and I'm very curious to how the event will turn out.

Nice pic btw.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Maisent on June 13, 2010, 07:27:08 am
is it sort of lke duelng, except with bamboo stick thingies? btw do you know what 21 gmt is as PST
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Bonifarzia on June 13, 2010, 09:26:11 am
Thanks  for the first comments.

Hmmm I wonder how the "fair conditions" thing works.

I think it is no major spoiler when I emphasize that quarterstaffs are classified as pole arms, for which the trainable maximum skill rank is zero. In case this is being changed as new content is added to the game, I will have to search hard for another concept to offer "fair conditions" for everyone.
... making the first hit count more than the damage is a really good idea.

This rule is essential in this context, because a duel would last for hours (IC time and for above reason). Also, the advantage from physical training is to be kept at a minimum. Notice the pacifistic touch, even though it is a combat event. No one get hurt much from a single blow with a stick [inflicted damage is very low.]

btw do you know what 21 gmt is as PST

PST is the same as GMT -7, so 21GMT is 14 PST. If both times suggested do not fit for you, make a recommendation.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Maisent on June 14, 2010, 04:37:22 am
if it is -7 then the saturday one will be at 7 am my time, i can probably make it tot he wednesday one though
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Bonifarzia on June 14, 2010, 01:22:26 pm

Two minor OoC rules added.

I realized there are some technical issues, but let us just see how this will turn out.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Bonifarzia on June 17, 2010, 02:17:17 pm

I would like to thank everyone who joined the rehearsal yesterday.

In my opinion, the most important aspect of this event has been a success: Fairplay.  The duellists have been fighting in a sporting way and I have the feeling everyone enjoyed the games.


Summary


Thanks to some spectators


Statistics
  
                Victories Rounds    
Caraick       5         7        
Racip         2         3        
Gilyare       2         3        
Fuge           1         2        
Xitop         1         2        
Luu           1         4        
Sulaika       0         1        
Kaipaber       0         2        
              12        



As expected for such a player event, there have been some administrative and technical issues. To improve the flow and fairness of the games, the following changes of rules will apply for the next Bout.


Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Caraick on June 17, 2010, 09:40:39 pm
Definitely a great event, Boni, I had a great time fighting :)

However, I don't think that blocked/missed/failed/or dodged attacks should count.  While this is slightly influenced by the player's stats, I was still able to beat Xitop, who has a much higher skill level in Mace/Hammer than I do....  That's just my opinion, and I agree with all of the other changes, except for armour, obviously.  I think the no-armor adds a fun element to the dueling, as well as the slight unpredictability of hits and misses, which is much more realistic in terms of RP...


Just some thoughts, but again, it's your event and you did a fantastic job! :)
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Talad on June 18, 2010, 01:16:15 am
This event has been added to the new calendar of events on ps.it ! \\o//
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Maisent on June 18, 2010, 04:22:39 am
Boni, i missed the wednesday one! my computer was broken and the saturday one is a bit too early for my time, do you think you could bump it up by 2 hours? probbably not, but ill try to wake up at 7 am ><
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Bonifarzia on June 18, 2010, 08:59:20 am
Again, thanks for your appreciated feedback.

And of course, it is very nice to have this event listed in the events.php.
Therefore, I hope to get things settled in time.

Caraick, I will think again about the rules. My first priority was to offer fair conditions for everyone, which is obviously not given when there is a difference in mace and hammer skills of up to 150 ranks. (Even if we ignore damage calculation, the bias in rolls ls is still enormous in this case.) And yes, the decision to allow armor will of course only hold if skill based rolls are ignored, i.e. dodges and blocks will count as hits.

Maisent, this event idea is supposed to be flexible and repeatable. Don't worry to join in a bit later, there is no need to sign up in advance or attend to the opening. I cannot guarantee the announced time for the next Bout is not subject to changes, but it would be desirable to stick to it as it is listed on planeshift.it.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Maisent on June 18, 2010, 10:45:33 am
Again, thanks for your appreciated feedback.

And of course, it is very nice to have this event listed in the events.php.
Therefore, I hope to get things settled in time.

Caraick, I will think again about the rules. My first priority was to offer fair conditions for everyone, which is obviously not given when there is a difference in mace and hammer skills of up to 150 ranks. (Even if we ignore damage calculation, the bias in rolls ls is still enormous in this case.) And yes, the decision to allow armor will of course only hold if skill based rolls are ignored, i.e. dodges and blocks will count as hits.

Maisent, this event idea is supposed to be flexible and repeatable. Don't worry to join in a bit later, there is no need to sign up in advance or attend to the opening. I cannot guarantee the announced time for the next Bout is not subject to changes, but it would be desirable to stick to it as it is listed on planeshift.it.

Ok, but for the saturday i think i will be on 2 hours after the Said time, so i am not sure if it will be still open, probably not - but i didnt quite understand you about it will keep continuing, do you mean that it continues every week? or you will think of another day and different times?
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Caraick on June 18, 2010, 03:29:51 pm
Again, thanks for your appreciated feedback.

And of course, it is very nice to have this event listed in the events.php.
Therefore, I hope to get things settled in time.

Caraick, I will think again about the rules. My first priority was to offer fair conditions for everyone, which is obviously not given when there is a difference in mace and hammer skills of up to 150 ranks. (Even if we ignore damage calculation, the bias in rolls ls is still enormous in this case.) And yes, the decision to allow armor will of course only hold if skill based rolls are ignored, i.e. dodges and blocks will count as hits.

Maisent, this event idea is supposed to be flexible and repeatable. Don't worry to join in a bit later, there is no need to sign up in advance or attend to the opening. I cannot guarantee the announced time for the next Bout is not subject to changes, but it would be desirable to stick to it as it is listed on planeshift.it.


Well, even with Xitop's level in M/H, which is much higher than mine, I was still able to beat him...I'm sure that even with an advanced level in M/H, that fighter could still be beat by a less skilled opponent...
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Bonifarzia on June 19, 2010, 11:15:47 am

The threads header has been updated for todays event.

Notice the rules have been modified in agreement with my previous comment.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Maisent on June 19, 2010, 05:55:48 pm
asd
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Bonifarzia on June 19, 2010, 11:19:54 pm
Review

First of all, I would like to thank everyone who attended to the Bataireacht Bout of today.

The list of participants has never grown long during this event, but I hope at least some of you enjoyed the fights.

A special thanks goes to my dear friend Luzino who officiated as coordinator for this Bout, which made organizing things a lot more relaxed than last time. Also, I was glad that no one seemed to be unhappy with the organization or the decisions of the arbiter.

The time for this event to be held was maybe chosen a bit unluckily, but we shall see how things will turn out next time. (The in game time of the day made it rather difficult to clearly observe the fights and the skylab server was not very populated at the time window of this event.]

For the next Bout, I sincerely hope to see more people who are not the typical participants to be found in larger tournaments, but just wish to enjoy some entertaining fights regardless to their training ranks. A longer and more heterogeneous list of participants will make things much more interesting.

Summary

The games of today have been dominated by two brave men of the "Diamond Claw" guild. Both have proven a remarkable sense for well timed strikes with their impressive winning streaks.

Xitop dominated todays Bout right from the beginning, defeating the following fighters one after the other:
Heleckie, Henetra, Heleckie, Maisent, Boeven, Maisent, Boeven and finally Maisent and Luu, each twice in a row.
Xitop was unstopable during eleven rounds until Maisent defeated him when challenging him for the fifth time.
Theafter, another remarkable streak was started by Luu, who won the remaining six rounds until the games came to an end.
Luu defeated Maisent and Zonthek, both twice in a row, then Boeven and finally Henetra. After the last duel, Zonthek won
an additional truel against Luu and Maisent, which will not be taken into account for the statistics.


Thanks to some spectators



Statistics

            Victories Rounds    
Xitop         11         12        
Luu           6         8        
Maisent       1         7        
Heleckie       0         2        
Zonthek       0         2        
Henetra       0         2        
Boeven         0         3        
                        18        

Outlook

I hope this will not have been the last event of this kind. There is still some need to discuss how things could be improved and what time scale would be suitable for having this repeated. I will update this thread and its header as soon as there are relevant news.

May the light guide you
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Zon on June 20, 2010, 12:42:44 am
This was excellent  :thumbup:. I hope to see more people watching and participating soon. Even though you have low level, you can still join in. That is the special thing about this. I will give this a 10/10
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Maisent on June 20, 2010, 01:49:55 am
For me, I would rate it a 9/10 it is perfect, except the time of the event, and how small the ring was, it should be bigger as staffs are slow [2.5]
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Zon on June 20, 2010, 02:26:49 am
For me, I would rate it a 9/10 it is perfect, except the time of the event, and how small the ring was, it should be bigger as staffs are slow [2.5]

Nay. I think the size is perfect. It is bigger than the ojaveda arena
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Bonifarzia on June 20, 2010, 01:16:52 pm

Thanks for the feedback.
Place and size of the ring are of course open for discussion.

Some minor edits and another thanks section added.

About the times, it was the intention to cover a variety of time zones in multiple events, but the next Bout is likely to take place GMT evening.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Bonifarzia on July 31, 2010, 03:13:54 pm
Header updated.

I would like to refer to this poster (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=25642.msg430385#msg430385) and announce the date and time for the next Bataireacht Bout.
It will take place 5th of Quinthal [28th of august, 20:30 GMT].


The following changes and additions shall be mentioned at this point

Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Catlemur on August 08, 2010, 08:38:44 am
I can only access the non RP server. :'(
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: LigH on August 08, 2010, 10:35:40 am
So maybe you missed the change to the new "Zeroping" server host by missing the very last update?

Please read the news on our main website about it: http://www.planeshift.it

For updating, it should be sufficient to run "pslaunch" and wait a second; if not, a "Repair" might help, or editing the mentioned XML file.

Furthermore, you will need a playing account registration on each server you want to play on. The accounts will be distinct.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Catlemur on August 08, 2010, 01:24:51 pm
Yeah I know that I will try the new server once I will return home.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Bonifarzia on August 21, 2010, 09:33:57 pm
The Quinthal Bout will take place in about one week and an hour, yet nobody applied for a free ticket.

My honest thanks for the entry on the events.php, but would it be possible to update the date and time? event12.php is the short description for the Treman Bout.

May the light guide you.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Vieg on August 22, 2010, 03:50:52 am
This is interesting I might come and watch... where is it again?
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Bonifarzia on August 22, 2010, 12:39:26 pm

Unless stated otherwise, the time and place of this threads header is valid.

The place to meet shall be the gates of East Hydlaa.

I have been thinking about moving the Bout near Gugrontid, where there is more space and less lag/ client load, though. Feel free to post your preferences.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Sangwa on August 22, 2010, 03:12:06 pm
(...) I don't think that blocked/missed/failed/or dodged attacks should count. (...)

I agree with this blokes, otherwise you're needlessly disregarding the system.

Also, instead of two jumps, the fighters could start seated (as some sort of ritual) and rise once ready. Not sure if works in this situation, but jumpy characters make me uneasy.

Anyway, this whole deal sounds delicious. Way to go!
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Bonifarzia on August 22, 2010, 04:34:50 pm
I agree with this blokes, otherwise you're needlessly disregarding the system.

Fairplay is my first priority, and in this case, I do not see a way to enforce fair conditions without disregarding combat mechanics. In the early planning phase of the event, I considered items of category pole associated with the not yet trainable spear & pole-arms skill, but this is not true.

I like the suggestion to sit down rather than to jump... it is slow, but at least not an obvious OoC element.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Sangwa on August 22, 2010, 05:43:16 pm
Fairplay should also have into account the time a person has spent on training... It's a bit disrespectful to disregard the time people spend on making their character consistent with the game mechanics.

If the character misses, or if his opponent dodges, or blocks the blow with his weapon, it should make the game last longer. If it hits without damage, or if is defended by an armour part (do not know if that happens) it should still count to end the combat.

This is hardly a decisive aspect though, I'm merely mentioning it for consistency sake. This event is top-notch stuff and I'll try to participate once I get back to my good laptop.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Caraick on August 22, 2010, 08:57:56 pm
I have to agree with Sangwa here...  Even with juiced up stats and skills, the amount of dodges and blocks will not be that significant, as proved during the very first test run of the Bout.  With no armor, regardless of your skill level, you will make damage on the person if you make contact.  That being said, there will be a few hits that may be dodge, blocked, or missed, but so what? That's part of the combat system, and has just as much to do with luck as it does with the stats/skills. 


If the whole spirit of the event is to make contact, then ignoring the game mechanics seems a bit unfair.  I love this event, and I think it's a fantastic way to hone your dueling skills without worrying about being hopelessly out-classed by players with much higher stats or skills then your own.  That being said, I enjoyed the first event when it was fought armor-less, and dodged, missed, or blocked hits were treated as actual dodged, missed, or blocked hits, not changed or ignored for the sake of the event.  Stick with the game mechanics on this! This event is fantastic, and has a lot of great things going for it, including that it can be done with the game mechanics, without having to worry about being duly unfair.

Just my thoughts on the matter, keep this event up, Boni, I'll see you at the next Bout! :)
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Bonifarzia on August 23, 2010, 11:50:13 am

Thanks for the comments. I try my best not to ignore this, so I did a little test.

I gave up collecting statistically significant data soon... you see why.
I think the data set is small enough that I can post this without giving spoilers, but the message should be clear enough.



Probability check in defensive stances at maxed stats and without armor:

rank             0    150  
hits             8    52  
dodged           41  0    
misses           4    0    
blocked         4    1    
total           57  53  

In other stances, you can observe some shifts in above categories, but the overall chance to hit looks even worse.

Therefore, no rule changes for now.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Bonifarzia on August 30, 2010, 12:34:29 pm


The Quinthal Bataireacht Bout

Review

First of all, I would like to thank everyone who attended to the Quinthal Bataireacht Bout. Again, the duels have been very sporting and fair. I honestly hope everyone who participated enjoyed the games and the spectators had some entertaining fights to watch.
Although it was wonderful to see enough brave fighters register to keep the games going for astounding twenty-two rounds, two of my personal goals have not been achieved. The newly introduced and announced voting for the grand newcomer award and betting games were both not successful due to a lack of interest and competition between trainee fighters. Nevertheless, I will try to do better for these next time.

I would like to congratulate Chessire for her exceptional performance and provide the updated statistics of the games.


Summary

round victorious defeated   streak
  1   Kisoji     Xitop            
  2   Kisoji     Caraick    2    
  3   Chessire   Kisoji                    
  4   Chessire   Gilyare    2    
  5   Chessire   Xitop      3    
  6   Chessire   Glaciusor  4    
  7   Chessire   Caraick    5    
  8   Chessire   Kisoji      6    
  9   Gilyare     Chessire                  
 10   Xitop       Gilyare          
 11   Xitop       Glaciusor  2    
 12   Caraick     Xitop                      
 13   Kisoji     Caraick          
 14   Kisoji     Glaciusor  2    
 15   Chessire   Kisoji                    
 15   Chessire   Caraick    2    
 17   Chessire   Glaciusor  3    
 18   Chessire   Kisoji      4    
 19   Glaciusor   Chessire                  
 20   Ova         Glaciusor        
 21   Ova         Fay        2    
 22   Ova         Glaciusor  3    



Statistics

Participant   Victories Rounds    
Chessire      10         12        
Kisoji         4          8        
Ova           3          3        
Xitop         2          5        
Caraick       1          5        
Gilyare       1          3        
Glaciusor     1          7        
Fay           0          1        


My special thanks go to Luzino, who again did a great job assisting me with the administration of the games, and to Haraun, who patiently waited for people to participate in the betting games.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Maisent on September 02, 2010, 12:45:22 am
Wow Chessire huh? she didn't look like the dueling type but looks like shes pretty good (Or maybe practicing claymors against gobbles helped timing  :))


And i've been hearing bad things about this kisoji fellow..
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: LigH on September 02, 2010, 09:01:20 am
You see - it is all about agility, timing, tactics, and ... fun. :D
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: novacadian on September 02, 2010, 09:17:31 pm
Stick with the game mechanics on this!

For what it is worth, the lack of respect for game mechanics is what kept Venorel from participating.

- Nova
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Bonifarzia on September 03, 2010, 10:59:30 am
... the lack of respect for game mechanics ...

If you are consequent with this opinion, you should also condemn any sort of RP fights, where an untrained character has a chance to defeat a maxed, heavily armored axe wielder.

And if you want to enjoy the power of your superior skill ranks, join any traditional tournament or have fun with some spontaneous use of player vs player mechanics. I do so for sure.
Anyways, I do not want to fill this thread with such a discussion. My ideas and intentions should be well clarified and justified. If you have a suggestion or complaint, support it with a meaningful reason.

Thanks.
And may the light guide you.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Sen on September 03, 2010, 11:41:46 am
/me can't resist to edit his signature
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: novacadian on September 03, 2010, 03:54:14 pm
/me can't resist to edit his signature

My apologies if my comment's suggestion was not obvious. It was to mean to adhere to the game mechanics. If that is off the table then my implied suggestion is mute. Venorel has participated in the last Champion's Cup with no hope of winning; her goal only being to use up all the potions which she had brought. That goal was not with the intent to enjoy the power of her superior skill ranks. She was highly outranked in that regard.

As to the RP battles, if dice were employed then it is one of my favourite rpg scenarios.... David and Goliath. Without dice usage, then you are correct, it would not move me much at all; assuming you are not talking about a non-developed character which is supposed to have RPed implied skills and strengths.

Maybe employing the /roll command would be a middle ground option. Hope that suggestion is not talking off the table.

- Nova
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Sen on September 03, 2010, 04:20:29 pm
 :offtopic: My signature change was not targeted at anyone in particular
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Maisent on September 05, 2010, 08:50:15 pm
btw I agree that blocks/dodges shouldn't count because in normal fighting that would not count as "Damage" to the other person.
Also to make it fair i think players should not wear armor.
So when they get hurt, whether its 1 hp damage or 500, we know that it was not a dodge/ block. If dodges are counted, people could just go on auto attack and rush towards their enemy without any skill, and you wouldn't be able to move back since the arena is small + some guy is chasing you on auto attack, so you have no where to go to time your attack, or to escape.

Also there wouldn't be any use for timing, and /stop attack. Because it wont matter if you got hit in full defensive mode or bloody mode, Whenever you are just hit, or bashed at, the game stops
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: Bonifarzia on September 06, 2010, 10:52:51 am


Introduction of this topic updated;
Some comment to the Quinthal Bout added;



Maisent, I had the impression that people with good timing skills had a clear advantage. It is true that switching stances will not be of any use with the current rules, but I disagree that stopping and reinitializing attacks won't help. It was no problem at all to distinguish the different attack events as a juror during the rehearsal, and of course armor was not allowed at that time.  Once more, I would like to remind you on the core concept of the event...
Quote
... untrained characters are encouraged to challenge skilled warriors in equal and fair conditions...

... and the little dataset previously posted where one character has less than 2% chance to hit and the other one more than 98%.
Title: Re: The Bataireacht Bout - Rules, Comments and Discussion
Post by: MishkaL1138 on September 09, 2010, 01:14:34 am
…a maxed, heavily armored axe wielder…

Reminds me of a certain evil furball…