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Messages - idorut

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1
Guilds Forum / Everything seems to be a problem
« on: May 03, 2005, 07:39:39 pm »
Why does it have to be a problem?  What\'s wrong with new people starting out the game in the only way they know how?  You can\'t expect everyone who downloads the game to fully understand the limitations you\'ll be dealing with once you create your character and enter the world for the first time.  

The point I began arguing (before certain people decided to attack me and therefore led me into a vicious cycle of trying to defend myself) was that Combat is in fact a part of the game, and currently the only way to train your skills and effectively \"test\" the game (which is why it\'s been released, right?  For testing?).  Combat is currently not the main focus of the game for the established players, mostly because of the length of time they\'ve been playing and the lack of new and exciting monsters, areas, and loot.

If PlaneShift is so different from other RPGs, like you say, then why not embrace new players and point them in the right direction instead of flaming them for wondering why they aren\'t more drops, or money, etc.

It seems to me like a lot of you would rather run the new players away than take the time to explain to them what the game is about.  I can\'t count the number of posts on this board where someone has taken the time to reply to a newbie\'s question with \"use the search command!  Or \"Duh, we answered that in Post X or Y\" when it would have taken the same amount of effort to just answer the question.  So much for making people feel welcomed, huh?  By the way, the search feature isn\'t exactly 100% accurate all the time, either.  If you really want to expand the horizons of the game, you\'d treat newbies with just a tad more respect.   Why are they going to respect you (just because you\'ve played the game a long time? Don\'t count on it.) when they\'re snubbed, ridiculed, or outright ignored for asking a simple question?

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Technical Help: IN GAME bugs (after loading world) / LOL
« on: May 03, 2005, 06:51:24 pm »
I personally have no idea what could cause this Yoho to circle around a tree, but god was that funny!  I\'ve witnessed rats and Gobbles spinning stationary circles in the sewers though.  Wonder if it\'s somehow related?

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Guilds Forum / Read with your eyes open
« on: May 03, 2005, 06:39:17 pm »
I only said that kill stealing was not exploiting once, thanks.  

You guys are basing the whole MMORPG genre on this one game that\'s NOT EVEN FINISHED.  I KNOW FULL WELL what skills are/aren\'t implemented into the game.  At this stage in PlaneShift go ahead and pretend whatever you want.  Just stop being hypocrits and acting like people who are just starting the game and testing out what features ARE available are somehow degrading the gameplay value for you.

And generally speaking in RPGs (PlaneShift excluded since IT\'S NOT FREAKING FINISHED) it\'s not wise to portray your character as something if you don\'t have the stats to back it up.  If your character is supposed to be a brave warrior but in reality is only level 1, what happens when someone wants you to join their party and go monster hunting?  You\'d look like a complete fool when your seasoned level 1 warrior doesn\'t even know how to wield his sword!
Keep in mind that most of us who have come to try out the game have played other RPGs before, so we base how we roleplay on what we\'ve experienced in other games.  Maybe y\'all should go play a finished game and see what it\'s like when roleplayers are in the minority and everyone else is just after levels.  Y\'all have just gotten used to having nothing else to do since mining and combat are so completely repetitive that you want to quit after about ten minutes.  Once the game is finished and all the skills and features are implemented you\'ll see how different the focus of the game becomes (any game with PvP quickly becomes a race to level X).



Y\'all can bash me all you want to.  I\'ve probably played upwards of 500 Online RPGs so I\'d like to think I have at least a basic understanding of how they work.  It seems to me most of you who are replying to me like I\'m a complete retard need to gain some perspective.  Step outside of PlaneShift and see what a completed MMORPG is really like.  Just a suggestion .  I\'m sure nothing can compare to this featureless one :rolls eyes:

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Guilds Forum /
« on: May 03, 2005, 06:19:48 am »
The only thing Seytra has demonstrated is complete ignorance about an Online RPG.

There\'s another thread on the board where people are discussing how to RP the wipe IN GAME.  So obviously it\'s not something I pulled out of my....toe, now is it?

As for RPing not having anything to do with your character\'s actual ability.. is laughable at the very least.  You cannot RP being a wealthy merchant if your pockets are empty.  You can\'t RP a thieving fiend if you\'ve never stolen anything!!  And you can\'t RP a seasoned warrior if you\'ve never been to battle!  Your character\'s abilities have to reflect to some degree what it is you want them to portray in the world.

I like how you take everything I say completely out of context.  Making faces at people is not OOC UNLESS the character doing it intends it to be (and how would you tell anyway? Do you think they would say /me OOC sticks his tongue out at you?) I never said anything about discussions that have no place in the world being RP.  Anyway didn\'t you argue a few posts back that the wipe doesn\'t affect us IRL, now you\'re saying it has no context in the game either?  
I think your neural pathways have a few too many cracks in them.

Pick a side of the fence to crap on, or invest in a shovel.

5
Guilds Forum / How bout shut up, thanks?
« on: May 02, 2005, 03:56:03 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
I seriously wonder why people seem to believe that the wipe will have RL impact. It won\'t erase your memory, it also won\'t kill all the people who have chars ingame, delete guilds websites, not even delete their PS installation or chatlogs!


Because you\'ll be starting all over with a new character who supposedly isn\'t supposed to remember that their last incarnation in the world belonged to Guild X.  You preach about RP like you invented it, yet you can\'t even grasp the concept of it and how it applies to the character wipe!?
 
Quote
Originally posted by idorut
Maybe kill steal someone\'s rat, or ummm make faces at the RP\'ers on the plaza.

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Apart from the fact that the plaza is one of the places with almost zero RP, these both are OOC. Killstealing even is cheating / exploiting.


God, do you ever take your finger out of your :cough: ear?  It\'s not OOC unless the person doing it intends it to be.  Hmm kill stealing is exploiting?  I thought exploiting was taking advantage of a bug that works in your favor (i.e a rat that spawns over and over and gives 100% experience each time.  Or going through a certain door that for whatever reason doubles the number of trias in your inventory).  Kill stealing is certainly not an honest practice, but hey, if you\'re RPing an Evil character then nobody is expecting you to be honest now are they?

Yeah, I should have known that one would go right over your head.

Try coming down off your high horse once in a while.
The air must be pretty thin way up there, eh?

6
Technical Help: Problems BEFORE entering the game / Laanx Server? Where? How?
« on: May 02, 2005, 03:44:02 pm »
I\'ve just read like six posts in a row referring to some mysterious Laanx Server, or acting like the game gives you a choice of servers to connect to... Mine doesn\'t?  There is nothing about any Laanx Server or local host or anything.  I have only the option to connect to Fragnetics.  

Not that it matters, I\'m still able to play the game.
Just seems odd.

7
General Discussion /
« on: May 02, 2005, 08:23:09 am »
Quote

I noticed. Yet they\'re right. The point of PS is not killing things. And they\'re also right in asking you to stop complaining about not having money, because what would you do with money, anyway? Exactly, buy a weapon.


I have never complained about not having money, thanks very much.  I was referring to what the post is originally about (someone asking where/how to get more money, since it\'s needed to TRAIN YOUR SKILLS)

And if you want your character to be a warrior of sorts then YES IT IS about killing things.  The whole point I\'m trying to argue is that ROLEPLAYING is NOT LIMITED TO STANDING AROUND TALKING.  It\'s about doing whatever the hell you want to.  

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Yes, there is mining, and you can start with a skill in it right from the char creation.
You\'d simply need the 100 tria for a pick, which can be gotten from quests.

Speaking of quests: they don\'t work ATM. Bugs. As you hopefully know, PS is alpha software, and thus there are bugs and most things are missing.
What you are doing is to judge the envisioned product by what is in the alpha version, which is like judging a finished house by it\'s carcass, or a person by their skills when they were 5 years of age. :rolleyes:

There is a  huge difference between what PS is envisioned and trying to become, and what\'s already implemented.


Wow thanks for repeating what I said in a previous post.  I\'m fully aware that most of the features of the game haven\'t been implemented yet.  Why don\'t you tell that to whoever posted previously that if monsters were meant to be dropping more loot then they would be already.  

And as far as quests.. How can you even put that on the table as a viable option if they aren\'t working at the moment?  Seems kind of impossible to me to complete a quest that\'s broken or  missing entirely.

Why can\'t the players who are for whatever reason \"against\" combat just leave the players who aren\'t alone?  Nobody is better than anyone else based on their style of playing.  If you chose to create a character that\'s unskilled in everything but vocal arts then so be it!  But don\'t bash the people who enjoy a good adventure and making their character stronger.

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General Discussion /
« on: May 02, 2005, 03:39:41 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
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Originally posted by idorut
The fact that you compare a MUD to a first person shooter only makes me aware that you have never played a MUD and therefore have no knowledge of the genre.

Was I doing that? *re-reads post* No, I wasn\'t, just as I expected. I was comparing MUDs to Diabolo, which is a difference unless you are saying that Diabolo is an FPS...
Quote
Originally posted by idorut
While it\'s true that there is no \"RP\" in the genre name MUD, doesn\'t mean they aren\'t essentially roleplaying games.  They are.  The first MUDs were modeled closely after Dungeons and Dragons style pen and paper RPGs.

Not all MUDs enforce RolePlaying, but it is always encouraged.

Well, to be fair, it must be said that the first PnP RPGs weren\'t so much about RP, either. I even feel that the actual RP genre emerged after the first RPGs, which IMO were more H&S than anything else.
Quote
Originally posted by idorut
Try as you may to convince me otherwise, but PlaneShift does exhibit some hack n slash characteristics.  Judging from the \"About Planeshift\" section of the website, the developers are trying to cater to both types of RPGers.  Those who want to focus on combat and those who don\'t.

A purely social RPG wouldn\'t implement experience, skills, classes, or combat since they are not meant to be part of the gameplay in the first place.

Hmm, I never said that PS is purely social, and also noone else did AFAICS. Furthermore, noone said that there is no H&S aspect in PS, I honestly don\'t see where you get that from. I think that combat has been implemented way too early, though. Also, there are no classes in PS.
PS tries to balance social RPG with skill-basedness. Therefore, it is expected that players do both, at least to some extent and as good as the implementation allows. Someone who always RPs to be a famous and unbeaten swordsman must be at least average skill-wise, at least if the skill is functional.
Likewise, someone who grinds for hours on end is supposed to RP good reasons to do so, and, most importantly, interact with others in the way the character realistically would, and to also give the character a life. As I said, the char will do things besides fighting. And when you ask another player, ask as your char, not as the player. That\'s a big difference.



Kind of interesting that you say there are no classes in PlaneShift.  Knights, Thieves, Mages, Craftsmen?  Are those not classes?  Perhaps they haven\'t been fully implemented yet but that doesn\'t mean they aren\'t part of the game.

Go back and read through this thread again, you\'ll see plenty of people saying \"the point of the game is not to kill monsters, yadda yadda, stop complaining about not having any money and just play the game, etc\"  Well, as far as I\'ve seen, there is no way to train your skills without money, and no way to get money other than killing monsters.  

I suppose you could try mining, but first you have to kill some monsters to train your mining skill so that it actually works.

For the record... I\'d say that whoever developed the first RPGs probably knows a lot more about the way they\'re supposed to be played than you do.  So you claim the pen and paper style RPGs were more hack and slash than storytelling.  Maybe that says something about the real focus of a Role Playing game, eh?

I never said that building your character\'s story life in the game isn\'t a major aspect of a roleplaying game.  I was simply defending those who prefer combat over emoting and chatting.  After all, what can you RP if all  your character does is sit around all day?  You\'d be the most boring character in the world, that\'s for sure.

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General Discussion / No knoweldge of MUDs?
« on: May 02, 2005, 02:30:31 am »
The fact that you compare a MUD to a first person shooter only makes me aware that you have never played a MUD and therefore have no knowledge of the genre.

While it\'s true that there is no \"RP\" in the genre name MUD, doesn\'t mean they aren\'t essentially roleplaying games.  They are.  The first MUDs were modeled closely after Dungeons and Dragons style pen and paper RPGs.

Not all MUDs enforce RolePlaying, but it is always encouraged.

Try as you may to convince me otherwise, but PlaneShift does exhibit some hack n slash characteristics.  Judging from the \"About Planeshift\" section of the website, the developers are trying to cater to both types of RPGers.  Those who want to focus on combat and those who don\'t.

A purely social RPG wouldn\'t implement experience, skills, classes, or combat since they are not meant to be part of the gameplay in the first place.

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Guilds Forum / A new Guild? What for?
« on: May 02, 2005, 01:38:33 am »
I know they add a sense of community and all...But with a total reset of the game coming up soon, it\'s kind of pointless.  And there\'s not a lot of evil deeds you can really do.  Maybe kill steal someone\'s rat, or ummm make faces at the RP\'ers on the plaza.

I\'d join a beggar\'s guild.. Then maybe I could round up enough Trias to buy a sword and train my skill so I could actually use it.

11
General Discussion / MMORPG
« on: May 02, 2005, 01:17:03 am »
Quote
Originally posted by zabeal
Quote
Originally posted by idorut
When you assume the identity of a character in a game you are automatically Role Playing.  
Just a thought from a long time RPG\'er who\'d rather kill and loot monsters than stand around and sing campfire songs.

Long time RPer? of what, diablo? A real roleplaying game is about adventure, not just the killing of things to magically get better in aspects. Further more this is a MMO-RPG, that first part means it has to be a social RPG. if you want to jsut kill things there are plenty of other games out there.
Planeshift is not about killing things. Yes, this is an alpha- combat was impliment too early and will loose much of it\'s focus. You will not be able to train cooking after killing, as that makes no sense.


Never played Diablo in my life.  Not because I think I\'m \"too good for it\" like you obviously do.  I\'ve been playing MUDs for around 15 years now.  (that\'s a multi-user dungeon in case you didn\'t know).  You can\'t honestly believe that the \"MM\" in \"MM\"ORPG means that you\'re supposed to stand around emoting all day and snub anyone who raises their sword in battle?  The MM stands for Massive Multi Player.  That means you\'ll be playing with a large amount of people Online.  It doesn\'t mean it\'s purely Social.  You can play an MMORPG alongside thousands of other people, but it doesn\'t mean you have to socialize with them.  

PlaneShift is supposed to be about having the OPTION to become a famous hero, known for slaying monsters and whatnot.  You also have the option of become a merchant, a smith, specializing in armorcraft, weaponcraft or what have you.

RIGHT NOW there is not much to do in the game besides kill monsters, mine, or stand around emoting.  I understand those of you who are not so new to the game have probably grown tired of killing rat upon rat upon rat or chipping away mindlessly at a hunk of rock and would rather socialize with people whom you\'ve connected with in the game.  

That\'s fine!! Just don\'t look down your noses at those of us who have just arrived and would like to experience what THE GAME, not the community, has to offer.

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Newbie Help (Start Here) / About the world
« on: May 01, 2005, 08:31:53 am »
In reading the player manual while downloading PlaneShift I came across the section about the world (how it\'s comprised of levels within a hollowed stalactite) so I\'ve been wandering around looking for these other levels.  Am I wasting my time?  Are they not implemented into the game yet?  Or have I simply failed to see beyond the nose on my face?

Another thing mentioned in the player guide that seems to be missing from the game are the Stone tunnels.  The manual makes them out to be an important part of the world.  So where are they?

As an afterthought...How high does my mining skill need to be before I can \"find a suitable place to dig\"?

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General Discussion / Role Playing in a nutshell
« on: May 01, 2005, 07:44:45 am »
I\'m tired of seeing these arguments about what RolePlaying is and how people should play a RolePlaying game.

When you assume the identity of a character in a game you are automatically Role Playing.  

It doesn\'t make any difference if you chose to stand around and emote and tell stories or if you explore dungeons and slay monsters, it\'s all RolePlaying.

I\'ve been popping in and out of PlaneShift for about a week.  It doesn\'t strike me as the type of game where hardcore Roleplaying is going to be mainstay.  First off, there is a complex system of skills and spells to be learned.  This requires experience and money.  Now, if you\'re somehow averted to killing monsters for experience and money (too hack \'n slash for you? I don\'t know) then you can quest for yours.  Just don\'t state falsehoods like \"This is a RolePlaying game!  Not a place to level up killing monsters\".  I\'m pretty sure what you\'re thinking of is a chat room, because RPG\'s rely heavily on combat and leveling to establish your character.   If it were a Social RPG as I\'ve heard suggested with no focus on combat then why implement a combat system or a training system?

 I think everyone is confusing an Alpha release game with only half a handful of features implemented with a Social RPG.

Just a thought from a long time RPG\'er who\'d rather kill and loot monsters than stand around and sing campfire songs.

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