general game play // money

[dragonfire999]

i admit, im kinda powerlevelerish

only when more sword skill comes out

but i mainly RP with firends
*coughwenelaircough*

wow, there is a virus today -.-

[buddha]

I sort of take the name-over-the-head thing as Rping, though.  We are confined to the physics of PlaneShift.  That means (a) there are no vampires and (b) everyone wears nametags.  Maybe it\'s custom, like wearing a family crest.

So he knows your name and that\'s not your idea of a fantasy setting.  Okay, but then where are the dragons?  (Oooh!  I\'ll get banned!).  The point is, that is the world we inhabit.  The whole \"known murderer\" thing is kind of silly, since there are no murderers, only duelists.  He might have a rep for being kind of mean, but you can\'t kill anyone that doesn\'t want to be killed.

That\'s why the Beggars aren\'t really pickpockets right now, because you can\'t steal.  All we can do is tell jokes and entertain, then hopefully get you to spend some tria on us.

The p-l bring you out of the experience, and that\'s annoying.  Also, it does ruin the atmosphere when everyone is duelling in the plaza.  But there is NO city guard, so noone will get arrested.  Again, that\'s the physics of the world we inhabit.

[idorut]

Originally posted by zabeal

Originally posted by idorut
When you assume the identity of a character in a game you are automatically Role Playing.  
Just a thought from a long time RPG\'er who\'d rather kill and loot monsters than stand around and sing campfire songs.

Long time RPer? of what, diablo? A real roleplaying game is about adventure, not just the killing of things to magically get better in aspects. Further more this is a MMO-RPG, that first part means it has to be a social RPG. if you want to jsut kill things there are plenty of other games out there.
Planeshift is not about killing things. Yes, this is an alpha- combat was impliment too early and will loose much of it\'s focus. You will not be able to train cooking after killing, as that makes no sense.

Never played Diablo in my life.  Not because I think I\'m \"too good for it\" like you obviously do.  I\'ve been playing MUDs for around 15 years now.  (that\'s a multi-user dungeon in case you didn\'t know).  You can\'t honestly believe that the \"MM\" in \"MM\"ORPG means that you\'re supposed to stand around emoting all day and snub anyone who raises their sword in battle?  The MM stands for Massive Multi Player.  That means you\'ll be playing with a large amount of people Online.  It doesn\'t mean it\'s purely Social.  You can play an MMORPG alongside thousands of other people, but it doesn\'t mean you have to socialize with them.  

PlaneShift is supposed to be about having the OPTION to become a famous hero, known for slaying monsters and whatnot.  You also have the option of become a merchant, a smith, specializing in armorcraft, weaponcraft or what have you.

RIGHT NOW there is not much to do in the game besides kill monsters, mine, or stand around emoting.  I understand those of you who are not so new to the game have probably grown tired of killing rat upon rat upon rat or chipping away mindlessly at a hunk of rock and would rather socialize with people whom you\'ve connected with in the game.  

That\'s fine!! Just don\'t look down your noses at those of us who have just arrived and would like to experience what THE GAME, not the community, has to offer.

[Seytra]

\"MUD\" doesn\'t even have any reference to \"RP\" in it\'s name! In fact, MUDs are textual Diabolo-like games. That doesn\'t make you any more of a roleplayer than playing an FPS does!

As for the \"socialising\" aspect... you are aware that the socialising is to be done as your char, not yourself? Also, if you\'re slaying rats, it\'s supposed to be your char, not yourself controlling a virtual model?

You are right, when playing a game that involves a virtual reality, even a business sim, you assume the role of a char, but most people don\'t see the implication that has on the way way you should behave ingame.

Therefore, when you are in PS, you are living in the world of Yliakum, and therefore supposed to act appropriately. I don\'t think there ever was any famous anything who killed for hours on end without speaking a word, then sleeping, eating, and killing more things...

Anyway, it is perfectly fine with me if you explore the game. After all, we\'re still testing it. However, also don\'t forget that you\'re supposed to be in-character, since while  the fighting in PS is optional, the RP is not, OK?

[idorut]

The fact that you compare a MUD to a first person shooter only makes me aware that you have never played a MUD and therefore have no knowledge of the genre.

While it\'s true that there is no \"RP\" in the genre name MUD, doesn\'t mean they aren\'t essentially roleplaying games.  They are.  The first MUDs were modeled closely after Dungeons and Dragons style pen and paper RPGs.

Not all MUDs enforce RolePlaying, but it is always encouraged.

Try as you may to convince me otherwise, but PlaneShift does exhibit some hack n slash characteristics.  Judging from the \"About Planeshift\" section of the website, the developers are trying to cater to both types of RPGers.  Those who want to focus on combat and those who don\'t.

A purely social RPG wouldn\'t implement experience, skills, classes, or combat since they are not meant to be part of the gameplay in the first place.

[Seytra]

Originally posted by idorut
The fact that you compare a MUD to a first person shooter only makes me aware that you have never played a MUD and therefore have no knowledge of the genre.

Was I doing that? *re-reads post* No, I wasn\'t, just as I expected. I was comparing MUDs to Diabolo, which is a difference unless you are saying that Diabolo is an FPS...

Originally posted by idorut
While it\'s true that there is no \"RP\" in the genre name MUD, doesn\'t mean they aren\'t essentially roleplaying games.  They are.  The first MUDs were modeled closely after Dungeons and Dragons style pen and paper RPGs.

Not all MUDs enforce RolePlaying, but it is always encouraged.

Well, to be fair, it must be said that the first PnP RPGs weren\'t so much about RP, either. I even feel that the actual RP genre emerged after the first RPGs, which IMO were more H&S than anything else.

Originally posted by idorut
Try as you may to convince me otherwise, but PlaneShift does exhibit some hack n slash characteristics.  Judging from the \"About Planeshift\" section of the website, the developers are trying to cater to both types of RPGers.  Those who want to focus on combat and those who don\'t.

A purely social RPG wouldn\'t implement experience, skills, classes, or combat since they are not meant to be part of the gameplay in the first place.

Hmm, I never said that PS is purely social, and also noone else did AFAICS. Furthermore, noone said that there is no H&S aspect in PS, I honestly don\'t see where you get that from. I think that combat has been implemented way too early, though. Also, there are no classes in PS.
PS tries to balance social RPG with skill-basedness. Therefore, it is expected that players do both, at least to some extent and as good as the implementation allows. Someone who always RPs to be a famous and unbeaten swordsman must be at least average skill-wise, at least if the skill is functional.
Likewise, someone who grinds for hours on end is supposed to RP good reasons to do so, and, most importantly, interact with others in the way the character realistically would, and to also give the character a life. As I said, the char will do things besides fighting. And when you ask another player, ask as your char, not as the player. That\'s a big difference.

[idorut]

Originally posted by Seytra

Originally posted by idorut
The fact that you compare a MUD to a first person shooter only makes me aware that you have never played a MUD and therefore have no knowledge of the genre.

Was I doing that? *re-reads post* No, I wasn\'t, just as I expected. I was comparing MUDs to Diabolo, which is a difference unless you are saying that Diabolo is an FPS...

Originally posted by idorut
While it\'s true that there is no \"RP\" in the genre name MUD, doesn\'t mean they aren\'t essentially roleplaying games.  They are.  The first MUDs were modeled closely after Dungeons and Dragons style pen and paper RPGs.

Not all MUDs enforce RolePlaying, but it is always encouraged.

Well, to be fair, it must be said that the first PnP RPGs weren\'t so much about RP, either. I even feel that the actual RP genre emerged after the first RPGs, which IMO were more H&S than anything else.

Originally posted by idorut
Try as you may to convince me otherwise, but PlaneShift does exhibit some hack n slash characteristics.  Judging from the \"About Planeshift\" section of the website, the developers are trying to cater to both types of RPGers.  Those who want to focus on combat and those who don\'t.

A purely social RPG wouldn\'t implement experience, skills, classes, or combat since they are not meant to be part of the gameplay in the first place.

Hmm, I never said that PS is purely social, and also noone else did AFAICS. Furthermore, noone said that there is no H&S aspect in PS, I honestly don\'t see where you get that from. I think that combat has been implemented way too early, though. Also, there are no classes in PS.
PS tries to balance social RPG with skill-basedness. Therefore, it is expected that players do both, at least to some extent and as good as the implementation allows. Someone who always RPs to be a famous and unbeaten swordsman must be at least average skill-wise, at least if the skill is functional.
Likewise, someone who grinds for hours on end is supposed to RP good reasons to do so, and, most importantly, interact with others in the way the character realistically would, and to also give the character a life. As I said, the char will do things besides fighting. And when you ask another player, ask as your char, not as the player. That\'s a big difference.

Kind of interesting that you say there are no classes in PlaneShift.  Knights, Thieves, Mages, Craftsmen?  Are those not classes?  Perhaps they haven\'t been fully implemented yet but that doesn\'t mean they aren\'t part of the game.

Go back and read through this thread again, you\'ll see plenty of people saying \"the point of the game is not to kill monsters, yadda yadda, stop complaining about not having any money and just play the game, etc\"  Well, as far as I\'ve seen, there is no way to train your skills without money, and no way to get money other than killing monsters.  

I suppose you could try mining, but first you have to kill some monsters to train your mining skill so that it actually works.

For the record... I\'d say that whoever developed the first RPGs probably knows a lot more about the way they\'re supposed to be played than you do.  So you claim the pen and paper style RPGs were more hack and slash than storytelling.  Maybe that says something about the real focus of a Role Playing game, eh?

I never said that building your character\'s story life in the game isn\'t a major aspect of a roleplaying game.  I was simply defending those who prefer combat over emoting and chatting.  After all, what can you RP if all  your character does is sit around all day?  You\'d be the most boring character in the world, that\'s for sure.

[Seytra]

Originally posted by idorut
Kind of interesting that you say there are no classes in PlaneShift.  Knights, Thieves, Mages, Craftsmen?  Are those not classes?  Perhaps they haven\'t been fully implemented yet but that doesn\'t mean they aren\'t part of the game.

Have you seen any hint of a class in PS? I haven\'t. A class basically limits your char to a profession by penalising some things (to the point of not being available at all) and easing others. This very clearly is not part of PS, and also never will be. So no, there are no classes in PS. There are \"paths\", but these are nowhere near classes. They\'re just a quick way of doing the char creation to end up with results that will do for most people.

Originally posted by idorut
Go back and read through this thread again, you\'ll see plenty of people saying \"the point of the game is not to kill monsters, yadda yadda, stop complaining about not having any money and just play the game, etc\"  Well, as far as I\'ve seen, there is no way to train your skills without money, and no way to get money other than killing monsters.  

I suppose you could try mining, but first you have to kill some monsters to train your mining skill so that it actually works.

I noticed. Yet they\'re right. The point of PS is not killing things. And they\'re also right in asking you to stop complaining about not having money, because what would you do with money, anyway? Exactly, buy a weapon.

Yes, there is mining, and you can start with a skill in it right from the char creation.
You\'d simply need the 100 tria for a pick, which can be gotten from quests.

Speaking of quests: they don\'t work ATM. Bugs. As you hopefully know, PS is alpha software, and thus there are bugs and most things are missing.
What you are doing is to judge the envisioned product by what is in the alpha version, which is like judging a finished house by it\'s carcass, or a person by their skills when they were 5 years of age. :rolleyes:

There is a  huge difference between what PS is envisioned and trying to become, and what\'s already implemented.

Originally posted by idorut
For the record... I\'d say that whoever developed the first RPGs probably knows a lot more about the way they\'re supposed to be played than you do.  So you claim the pen and paper style RPGs were more hack and slash than storytelling.  Maybe that says something about the real focus of a Role Playing game, eh?

No, because if this was true, they wouldn\'t have changed, eh? However, they have, and some quite remarkably. You can see this by the way the plots of the campaigns have evolved. While in the first campaigns there were plenty of encounters that simply didn\'t make any sense at all (like you tear down a wall and find two orcs in a room that was sealed for centuries, alive and eager to attack you (not dead and eager to get out!)), while today cities have an economy, politics and relations to each other, and the entire world / overall plot is coherent and consistent with the campaigns.

Summarising, I think they were simply lacking experience and a base to build from - both had to be created first.

Originally posted by idorut
I never said that building your character\'s story life in the game isn\'t a major aspect of a roleplaying game.  I was simply defending those who prefer combat over emoting and chatting.  After all, what can you RP if all  your character does is sit around all day?  You\'d be the most boring character in the world, that\'s for sure.

In that case we seem to be in agreement.

However, the char could still be a politician or priest. After all, what else do their RL counterparts ever do besides emoting and chatting? Same for bards, fortune-tellers and others, so there\'s a number of possibilities there which cannot satisfactorily be covered by a skill system.

Edit: As for inhibiting duelling in the plaza: until the NPC guard AI is smart enough to take that job, IMNSHO the job falls to either the GMs or the engine. The GMs could freeze / ban offending players for some RL minutes, or the engine could simply turn on auto decline / disable the challenge command for the hydlaa zone, though the latter would remove the option to have legitimate (i.e. RP) duels in back-alleys.

[Aiselyn]

Originally posted by Niavard
The Powerlevelers aren\'t the real problems, it\'s the roleplayer idiots who are, I won\'t mention any names *coughsarrowcough*, but the following episode once took place in the tavern (it may not be exact, since this happened some time ago).....

Yes, I agree that Sarrow\'s character is not a very believable character. I\'ve seen him do a fair number of...odd things myself, but at least he\'s doing something towards roleplaying.

It\'s a lot better in my opinion than the dark side of powerleveling where you\'ll be killing rats or teffys and then someone comes in and attempts to steal your killing spot, especially in the arena.

[idorut]

I noticed. Yet they\'re right. The point of PS is not killing things. And they\'re also right in asking you to stop complaining about not having money, because what would you do with money, anyway? Exactly, buy a weapon.

I have never complained about not having money, thanks very much.  I was referring to what the post is originally about (someone asking where/how to get more money, since it\'s needed to TRAIN YOUR SKILLS)

And if you want your character to be a warrior of sorts then YES IT IS about killing things.  The whole point I\'m trying to argue is that ROLEPLAYING is NOT LIMITED TO STANDING AROUND TALKING.  It\'s about doing whatever the hell you want to.  

Yes, there is mining, and you can start with a skill in it right from the char creation.
You\'d simply need the 100 tria for a pick, which can be gotten from quests.

Speaking of quests: they don\'t work ATM. Bugs. As you hopefully know, PS is alpha software, and thus there are bugs and most things are missing.
What you are doing is to judge the envisioned product by what is in the alpha version, which is like judging a finished house by it\'s carcass, or a person by their skills when they were 5 years of age. :rolleyes:

There is a  huge difference between what PS is envisioned and trying to become, and what\'s already implemented.

Wow thanks for repeating what I said in a previous post.  I\'m fully aware that most of the features of the game haven\'t been implemented yet.  Why don\'t you tell that to whoever posted previously that if monsters were meant to be dropping more loot then they would be already.  

And as far as quests.. How can you even put that on the table as a viable option if they aren\'t working at the moment?  Seems kind of impossible to me to complete a quest that\'s broken or  missing entirely.

Why can\'t the players who are for whatever reason \"against\" combat just leave the players who aren\'t alone?  Nobody is better than anyone else based on their style of playing.  If you chose to create a character that\'s unskilled in everything but vocal arts then so be it!  But don\'t bash the people who enjoy a good adventure and making their character stronger.

[zabeal]

Originally posted by idorut
Never played Diablo in my life. Not because I think I\'m \"too good for it\" like you obviously do. I\'ve been playing MUDs for around 15 years now. (that\'s a multi-user dungeon in case you didn\'t know). You can\'t honestly believe that the \"MM\" in \"MM\"ORPG means that you\'re supposed to stand around emoting all day and snub anyone who raises their sword in battle? The MM stands for Massive Multi Player. That means you\'ll be playing with a large amount of people Online. It doesn\'t mean it\'s purely Social. You can play an MMORPG alongside thousands of other people, but it doesn\'t mean you have to socialize with them.

You couldn\'t have been further from what I was saying. I\'ve played diablo, and liked it. You should play it to- and recognize that it is a single player game, where you are largely rewarded for going around killing things. Of course, you can play it online of course, but that\'s another story. Good that you\'ve plaid muds, but they are as diverse as any other context of a game- the majority of MUDs are sadly as Seytra put them. However, then you find the rare games like Lambda Moo which are not about meeting new people and killing them.
What I don\'t understand is you ignoring other players. If you don\'t even have the pretenses of playing with others, then why play an online game? You seem to have some odd expectations of others here.

And if you want your character to be a warrior of sorts then YES IT IS about killing things.  The whole point I\'m trying to argue is that ROLEPLAYING is NOT LIMITED TO STANDING AROUND TALKING.  It\'s about doing whatever the hell you want to.  

You seem to be the one insisting that people are standing around... where did you see this, anyways? Anyways, a warrior is not someone who kills things on a daily basia- a warrior is someone who prepares their whole life for war on the off chance they might live to see it. Professional soldiors rarely ever kill anything, and the fact that things come back to life in a gmae don\'t mean you have to kill them.

Wow thanks for repeating what I said in a previous post.  I\'m fully aware that most of the features of the game haven\'t been implemented yet.  Why don\'t you tell that to whoever posted previously that if monsters were meant to be dropping more loot then they would be already.  

And as far as quests.. How can you even put that on the table as a viable option if they aren\'t working at the moment?  Seems kind of impossible to me to complete a quest that\'s broken or  missing entirely.

Again, you seem to have odd expectaions about what is possible, and what will be possible.

Why can\'t the players who are for whatever reason \"against\" combat just leave the players who aren\'t alone?  Nobody is better than anyone else based on their style of playing.  If you chose to create a character that\'s unskilled in everything but vocal arts then so be it!  But don\'t bash the people who enjoy a good adventure and making their character stronger.

I don\'t understand your attacks here. Who specificaly picked you out and said they were better than you? Who even said you had a different style of playing? I didn\'t see anyone saying that having a stronger charactor was a bad thing, I\'m sorry if someone was giving you taht impression.

[bitula]

People generally confuse being nice and talkative with rp-ing. But that\'s a huge misunderstanding, a person can rp a silent rude character, and yes, that\'s an add-in to a community. Just play whatever character you are in real life, or power-level if thats all you want to do. Saying power-leveling-only is not rp is just a nonsense. The only criteria of rp-ing is taking up a consistent role in the given fantasy world. If you want, be rude, but dont say WTF, say: wretched heap of hovels (and not WHOH). If you dont wanna react or answer to others, then don\'t. But if you do, watch out to be consistent. And yes don\'t call characters by name, if you never met them before. It doesnt matter whether there are dragons or not, you cannot outbalance unimplemented features. There are no dragons, thats all! Sit and wait till they\'ll be implemented. Or make rumors, maybe the devs will implement something based on your rumors... And even if there are only rats who drop loot, it\'s still fun killing them. Doesnt obliege you to do something else. Whoever donot comprehend this are those who are quickly getting bored from the lack of features. But even if the devs include only 1 moster/month, that still should be a motivation for those who believe in the future of PS.

[buddha]

There will be no dragons in PS, if I\'m to understand correctly.  The point is: the physics of this world allow us to know each others names.  Use it, it\'s part of the game.  If you are referring to their real names, that\'s different.

I like to work within the world I\'m given.  Part of that is the name tag custom. You have the option of turning it off for yourself if you like, but if I meet you, I\'m going to use that information.  Should I just rely on remembering you because you\'re th guy with the tunic and the blond hair?  I don\'t think so.  This is like arguing that you can\'t rp and use /tell.  How do you explain that?  It\'s used all the time.  Accept it as part of the physics of the world.  Big deal, it\'s neither Medieval Europe nor Middle Earth.  Does it have to be?

[bitula]

Hmm, maybe you misunderstand. What I say, is that you cant say: Hi Bitula Sonka, how do you do, without first asking my name. Sure, after you\'ve asked it, you can call me this way until you die (or the wipe). On the other hand I donot have the right to call myself on other name (if label is on), unless I\'m disguising myself within rp. Now this is a minimal requierement. If one is just lazy to ask one\'s name, he can still talk without making reference to it. /tell, /say etc are part of rp tools,  these are not seen by the reciever, so nothing wrong here. These, the console window itself and other features are technikal features, they donot conflict with rp. \"Where can I buy equipment\" is rp, while \"How do I buy (technically) an equipment\" is not.

BTW: I think that rping the wipe is a nonsense. Why should a technical error be incorporated into the world. Why just not forget it, and start from beginning. Soooooooo nonsense. It\'s like because of the quests don\'t work, we would make up that the Gods sent a \"Ray of Forgetting Quests\" onto those who have one. LOL.

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There will be no dragons in PS, if I\'m to understand correctly
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Lol, how do you know that Dragons won\'t be implemented in for example 10 years. Is it a rule or what? Or part of the story: like gods forbid Dragons to exist? Or maybe a philosophy: Dragons cannot exists, like lightspeed can never be exceeded.

[Aiselyn]

I agree with bitula on this one. We don\'t know what\'s going to happen in even 1 year from now. All you can do is speculate.

The way I see the name tags...they are their because without them everyone will look the same making it hard to tell who is who. This doesn\'t mean you cannot pretend they\'re not there when you first meet a person. If I see you on the street in real life I don\'t know your name until I ask. Why can\'t that happen in this game if you are a roleplayer?