Originally posted by Karyuu
The naming rules will not change, that I can say with near certainty. There will be no Ranma Skywalkers in Planeshift. They may be fine-tuned and added to so that problems like these will not arise (i.e., the rules will be more detailed with time), but your proposal of an \"open\" fantasy will not take place, because that is not what Planeshift is.

Honestly I think the rules are probably fine. So changing is not strictly necessary. But clarrification etc is all I have ever really been after. But it is still kind of odd you claim to know what planeshift is/will be when you yourself admit that it is incomplete. Calling it \"pre-alpha\" in a later portion of your post.

Originally posted by Karyuu
Your immediate response, of course: Who the hell am I to stay what Planeshift is or isn\'t. Yet some have been here a \"little\" longer and have become aware of the way Planeshift works.

Time can obscure things as well as give insight. Don\'t use the \"we have been here longer so we know how things are.\" argument. It is a double egded sword. I have been in many communities a very long time. Yet I am still learning from them. And I have seen fellow long time members really go awry after they get some skewed vision of how things are. The old expression you can\'t see the forrest for the trees can easily become aplicable in these cases.

At any rate I have followed planeshift for 4 or 5 years now IIRC. I may have not been the most active person and I may have only just registered for the forrum. Don\'t go thinking I am a total newb.

Originally posted by Karyuu
As it has been stated before - uncomfortable with the rules? Feel free to spend your time elsewhere. This has been told many times to many different people, and all without any problems or regret.

Untill I see it official I can\'t accept the claims of the few that think they know better than everyone else. No matter how bad their intentions are.

Originally posted by Karyuu
This does not mean that it is in the interest of the devs (and the Planeshift world) to attract all types of users. Hack\'n\'slash users will not be welcome, nonRP users will not be welcome, etc., etc.

I\'m sorry again I can\'t take the words of biggots as the official stand of the devs. Untill words of equal or similarly bigotry appear on the front/register pages of the official project site I can\'t accept your claims as anything more than you bigoted views. And before you get all upset at my heavy use of the word biggot here it is very aplicable. Others and now your very own words have show classic signs of biggotry, If that disturbs you then change your ways. But don\'t hate the messenger. Becuase there will be others. Honestly up till now I had a bit of respect for you. Elsewhere you seem a bit of a nice person who is willing to help. But that image is now beyond tarnished.

Originally posted by Karyuu
Pre-alpha, actually. There will indeed be a character wipe \"soon,\" and by that time hopefully the rules will be made clearer within the client itself. I, personally, don\'t see the point of you arguing in all this

I argue the point because seytra felt the need to argue it. Honestly had it not been for seytra I was more or less done with the thread long ago. And at this time since I think we have deviated from the original thread enough I would like to ask a mod to split and or lock the thread. My point is out there. I am satisfied with that. I think leaving this open will only continue to tarnish the reputation of some of the forrums more visible and possibly respected members. Whether or not I respect them.

Don\'t get me wrong I will still debate this if someone is really interested in such debate. But I feel some are to close to the issue and it could well deteriorate into a flame fest quite easily.

Originally posted by Seytra
I seriously hope you are joking! Because if not, you obviously have absolutely no clue what I am talking about.

No I am seriously not joking. And yet I fully understand what you are talking about. I think the lack of understanding does not originate on my end.

Originally posted by Seytra
You do realize that the association is performed by the player, not the character, yes?

No. Not strictly. The association to the chosen name I had was not implied or intended by me. Me being the player. It was some other character that assumed that it must have a simple/popular meaning. When it didn\'t. It was a concatonation of two non english words which even in their english forms would not be strictly unnacceptable in game.

Originally posted by Seytra
And as such, the player will have a hard time ignoring the dumb name. Thus, it makes the player lose immersion, the feeling of baing inside a real, consistent world (the game world), by being reminded of things outside that world. Thus, it does matter a whole lot. The sole presence of \"Skywalker\" in the name will surely trigger an association with a large percentage of PS players.

If they are that boored that they have ample time to not only make up non-existant external associations to names, but also get miffed about it. Something tells me they are not all that serious about roleplaying. Seriously. I am with you when someone uses a non-abstract famous name verbatum. Where you loose me and others is with this obsession of finding non-existant inapropriate external name associations. I think you are trying to hard to be offended.

Originally posted by Seytra
Yes, it may be hard to get a name without meaning in any language. However, this is absolutely no reason to not even try to cover the major languages.

So you mean we have to put in some serious linguistic R&D before we join to play? Wait are we getting paid for this? Major languages? Which ones? What about most of the world who does well to know one? There are people who live not that far from myself who butcher the english language awfully. And they don\'t know any other language. I mean it is one thing for an immigrant to butcher it after speaking another language all their lives. Seriously how many languages do you think most people know? I am fairly educated and I really only considder myself to know one. Outside of programming languages. The sum of all my other spoken language knowledge could barely form a few cogent pharases outside of hello. Though many times I can pick up the general meaning of a few phrases in german, japanese, spanish, french, and even icelandic that isn\'t the same thing as really speaking/knowing them.

Originally posted by Seytra
Furthermore, what you consider uninteresting may be interesting to someone else.

I am willing to aknowledge that. Here is the issue you are missing. It is going to be \"my\" name. \"Not\" theirs.

Originally posted by Seytra
Also, how interesting is your RL name, anyway?

Actually to me it is very. At the basic level it \"is\" me. On a deper one it speaks to part of my history and heritige. And frankly if I had real issues with my name I could change it to anything I want.

Originally posted by Seytra
Why would a PS name have to be interesting, or even be allowed to be interesting?

Why should it not be interesting? Seriously. What rule is there that says it can\'t/shouldn\'t be? Honestly if you were right and we really wanted to solve this issue we would create a language composed of unique unpronounceable ideograps. And then limit people to composing their names from that. Simple. Easy. Fair. No fuss no muss. No one can get offended in uncalled for manners.

Originally posted by Seytra
Your definition of \"interesting\" seems to be glued to what you like OOC-ly. Since OOC things have no playe in PS,

ichi: Not all of us are blessed with multiple personalities. There is generally bound to be some overlap.

ni: There is no rule that says \"OOC\" things have no place in PS. Simply that \"some\" things don\'t.

san: It is people like you who behave like rule nazis that are really the problem. No that is not sufficient to invoke Goodwin\'s law.

Originally posted by Seytra
your definition of \"interesting\" equates to \"inacceptable\" IMNSHO.

That\'s the real problem. You are not humble in any way. Your holier than thou attitude gets in the way of any possible point that you might someday hope to make. It\'s your way or the highway. And what\'s really sad about all of this is that you\'ve no reason to be that way. You are clearly taking major liberties with your interpritation of the rules. And you are not in any real position to \"set\" the rules. No more so than any of the rest of us.

Originally posted by Seytra
Not at all. The name is the very first part of RPing. Thus, chosing a bad name is already bad RPing.

That is the whole point. There is nothing \"bad\" about the names in question. Other than you \"feel\" they were bad. Which is funny considdering you don\'t even know what they were.

Originally posted by Seytra
The time used to create a name therefore is well spent.

I agree. Which is why it is a problem when those like yourself act as you do after someone spends all that time. Just because you \"feel\" it means something it does not.

Originally posted by Seytra
I am not trying to hurt anyone. I am just trying to prevent fools who don\'t grasp what RPing takes from destroying PS for the real RPers.

And it\'s just those kind of hurtfull words I am talking about. You act as if you are some sort of authority. You are not. Then to add insult to injury you insist on name calling in conjunction with blanket accusations/assumptions. In using the word \"fool\" did you even bother to evaluate your position? Quite frankly if you have this same attitude in game I think you are far more responsible for ruining the game than any of your so called fools. The difference being that you not only ruin it for real RPers but for everyone  in general.

No offense, but I highly doubt that you will manage to produce something that can contain my name and still has any chance of getting famous or even well known.[/QUOTE]

There are different degrees of fame you gloss over. Anything is equally bad to you. You seriously missunderestimate my abilities legal and illegal. And all the creative ways a creative person like myself could use them. I am rather internet adept.

Originally posted by Seytra
But should you manage, I indeed would change my name, because I do not want to be associated with anything besides the char I have created. I do expect the same off any RPer, yes.

Good for you. You have at least the integrity and courage to stand against a non-threat. And thank your lucky stars that you will not have to worry as far as I am concerned about prooving you a hypocrit.

Originally posted by Seytra
You might have used my words, but you most definitely have not used my meaning. The way you put it is meant to imply a negative meaning, and I am 100% sure you knew and intended that.

Negative? There is nothing there that couldn\'t have been said in a neautral way as it was intended.

Originally posted by Seytra
It is common knowledge that people read more into words than is actually written. The text is always read within a context, and this context was highly negative regarding me and the \"ideal RP-circle\", thus it can safely be concluded that you are using it in a disrespectful way.

No it was a hypothetical way. Because your RP circle is not my circle it is safe to say that one or both of us has idyllic visions of what such a circle should be. I can\'t use those words in a negative fashion which would totally exclude myself. Now can I?

Originally posted by Seytra
ROFL! I do not need you to tell me when I have a point, TYVM.

The point on your head does not count. \"YOU MAY NOW BE MILDLY OFFENDED\"

Originally posted by Seytra
Well, AMOF, I don\'t actually care about what you do IRL.

Why ask then? Someone might think you were being disingenuous.

Originally posted by Seytra
After all, you could be telling anything here, without risking to be found out. No use in bragging. But you might well wish to consult your \"psychology major, some of the most highly educated fishmongers on the planet\" on the names and immersion thing, I am sure that he / she will be able to tell you how association works and how it can break immersion. If he / she decides to do a scientific research paper on that subject I will gladly read it.

First I was not aware that being a fishmonger was something to brag about. Because seriously you have to be college educated to work at mcdonalds these days. Second we did actually discuss this. He was rather of the oppinion that you might be the problem. Take it for whatever it is worth.

Originally posted by Seytra
Hmm, you must have a real lot of fantasy to be able to get that meaning into my sentences.
I was not saying that \"fantasy\" means \"limiting\". In fact, I was saying that \"the established context and content of the environment (background and setting) define which subset of \"fantasy\" is appropriate for PS\", and that therefore \"the extremely vast meaning of \"fantasy\" is severely narrowed down in it\'s applicability to PS\".

No the meaning was clearly intended by your statements. You imply that the content of limited screenshots limit the scope of the setting and background of an \"incomplete\" game.

Originally posted by Seytra
Ignoring the very emotional lines of \"wisdom\" at the end, it is my impression that you are trying to use the extremely overused \"it\'s fantasy so anything goes\" argument in order to justify your unwillingness to accept the limitations that have been set by the PS team.

You are not the PS team. Neither are the GMs. They are appointed representatives. I could someday even become a GM. And I am more than willing to accept the limitations set by the PS devs etc. I accepted a false assumption about my chosen moniker on the part of a GM rather than argue about it at that point. I felt it would be far more constructive to debate the topic somewhere else. Somewhere more apropriate. And here we are. But why are you here?

Originally posted by Seytra
You have already indicated that you have never played any PnP RPG, and that might be your problem.

Excuse me? When was PS ever a PnP RPG? Ok I admit I did toy with using my wacom pad and stylus with the game but it is hardly a pen and paper.

Originally posted by Seytra
If you had, you would know that, while they all are \"fantasy\", they still have a very limited subset of what might be thought up.

Untill I see official corroberation of that I am sorry I can\'t accept it.

Originally posted by Seytra
The reason is simple: they are trying to form a believable and consistent virtual environment, just like PS.

A believable fantasy? Almost an oxymoron. Yet it is what you imply. And consistant? I believe that is up to the official team to decide. Not you. You are as ill equiped to decide that as the rest of us are seing the incomplete nature of things.

Originally posted by Seytra
Therefore, while you could think of flying microwave ovens that talk, they are not appropriate in a serious setting, not even a sci-fi one.

LOL. I have seen similar and stranger things in sci-fi settings. For peets sake the transformers had vehicle and animal forms. It is not out of the question to consider that there were some with household appliance forms.

Originally posted by Seytra
Therefore, there are and never will be lightsabers or doom stars in PS.

First no one was advocating either. Second it is a \"deathstar\" (TM) .

Originally posted by Shadowfax
I found a tria on the ground by the tavern once; so there is always the possibility of finding money. Also you can collect mushrooms and then sell them.  Sometimes people hold events and parties in game every now and then were you can get free stuff. And some people might hire you for jobs. You could also always try Rp robbing someone and if they are a true PRer they will have to comply. Lastly if you get that desperate you can beg for money.

I once found a lump of gold outside the magic shoppe along with several hexa.

CS supports bump mapping for sure if not the rest of them. But yeah not in PS yet. Hopefully before they leave beta something like that will be implemented. Because it will allow for much more detailed characters while keeping low poly counts.

I have never seen a monster attack. I have seen them walk towards me and then follow me around. But they never \"attack\". Bnadits in the dungeon are an example of this.

Things like?

Originally posted by Seytra
The problem are the border cases, which will always be there, no matter what the rules are, because rules can never be precise enough to prevent tricks and stupidity. The only thing that is needed is (un)common sense. If you have any doubts whether what you are about to do is acceptable, then simply don\'t do it.

So what you are saying is that if we don\'t want to use the random generator. But are still unsure whether anything we could cobble together on our own would be acceptable. Is that we should just steer clear of Planeshift all together. Kinda short sighted or myopic isn\'t it?

Originally posted by Seytra
What we have is a bunch of clueless n00bs who don\'t know what RP stands for and what \"roleplay\" means. At best, we have people who have been deranged by other MMO\"RP\"Gs.

No. What we have here is an example of a person with a possibly warped and overly idealistic view of what roleplaying should be. No offense intended. But honestly. Take a step back and remember here that this is a comunity that is accessable to a wider comunity of people than your traditional roleplaying clubs offer. It is avalible to anyone on the internet. And I bet among them you can find thousands of definitions about what roleplaying should be that will not agree with the one you hold. So who\'s wrong? Is anyone wrong? Wouldn\'t time and effort be better spend finding a happy medium? Where the hardcore RPers who dress up as their character on a regular basis, can co-exist with those of us that simply create characters as personifacations of aspects of ourselves?

Originally posted by Seytra
Any decent RPer would not need any naming rules, because they would be able to choose a fitting name based on the setting and background. If need be, they would use the name generator without having been told to do so.

Decent? Decent? I pitty the foo that thinks that is decent! When in reality it is only an obtuse overly idealized design for some sort of perfect personal community. One that will always be far from the reality.

Originally posted by Seytra
\"Medieval Fantasy\" must be interpreted as a whole, not the parts. It is not an \"or\", not even and \"and\". It is a classification which is well-known in RP circles. It is a definition of a genre, like \"science fiction\". Medieval fantasy means that it is not our medieval, but simply a state of scientific development that is similar to what was there in our mediieval times. It also means that there are elements that were not present in our medieval, or at least not exactly as they were (like magic).

Again overly simplistic. And you are not going to have an easy time limiting this community to those ideal RP-circle knowing members. Frankly majic in all the varrious forms it has appeared in human history easily covers parallels to those in Planeshift and alot more. Hell advanced technology is magic to someone who does not understand it. Personally I have always been a fan of archaeic universes. And medieval? Medieval what? Brittan? Europe? Asia? Medieval covers alot of ground that would not I suspect be tollerated in the game ATM. In fact my primary character had a name that was basically derived from medieval japan. But I was told it didn\'t fit because it was from some anime.

Originally posted by Seytra
Thus, it is a very precise formulation, especially if you look at all the other medieval fantasy RPGs (pen and paper ones, that is). They all show quite clearly what this genre is, and it is nothing like a combination of \"medieval\" and \"fantasy\".

O lawdy! Where to begin....... D&Ders can be quite obtuse. Probably the reason I never fell in with those circles back when I was in public schools. Seriously for everyones sake stop thinking you are better than everyone else. Come down of your high horse and join the rest of us to build a better comunity/program.

Originally posted by rosmerelmer
looks ok..
try to subdivide-smooth the 1 ball at the handle,

Remember this is a single solid mesh. If any 1 part of it uses subdivide the whole thing does. And actually what you suggested is exacly how it started out. I achieved that look using subsurf creases because I thought it fit better with the boxy look on the top part.

Originally posted by rosmerelmer
and also try not to set everything smooth at the same time, you will get the weird black spots around the point of your sword.
happy blendering!

Well everything is set smooth. But that is not what is causing that. It has to do with the way I used subsurf creases to form the point. Even without smoothing on it looks much the same only slightly more boxy. But I got to thinking. This would not be a weapon you would tend to plunge tip first into an enemy. That would silence it. So perhaps it would be better if I squared then ends like an actual tuning fork.