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Messages - willaert

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Technical Help: Problems BEFORE entering the game / Oh well...
« on: February 14, 2004, 07:17:02 pm »
Sorry I didn\'t read your first message carefully!  Thanks for answering even if it can\'t fix my problem.  I should try this game on my older machine...

Nick

2
When I first start up PS, there is a window showing the engine loading up:

No CEL environment variable set!
Using alternative 3D driver: crystalspace.graphics3d.opengl
Warning! Failed to load \"csddsimg\"; use -verbose...
Warning! Failed to load \"csjngsimg\";...
Warning! Failed to load \"cssgiimg\";...
Warning! Failed to load \"cswalimg\";...

I am guessing this means the engine is choosing a less efficient method of rendering.  Is this fixable?  It would be worth posting the solution if it is a problem others are having.

Nick

3
Lag seems like a generic word for what happens when the machine gets locked up when playing an online game-- I thought lag was the time it took info packets to go from my computer to the server and back again.  My experience with PS doesn\'t seem like lag at all, because when my PS game freezes, my CPU slams the roof and won\'t come down.  I can close PS no problem, but this seems like a rendering issue to me, especially because I notice the problem is worse in areas with more polygons.  In my experience, I get \"lag\" whether there are 4 clients running or 30.  Is it really \"lag\"?  I\'ve got a 1.6GHz machine, intel board, lots of memory-- so, I don\'t think this is a machine issue either.  

Does anyone with some technical knowledge want to try to explain this to me?

Nick

4
General Discussion / Interesting notions...
« on: February 13, 2004, 02:13:10 pm »
We\'re talking about two or three things at once when we\'re talking about vocals: voices as background noise (tavern sounds with a trigger--good idea BTW), vocals in a track where someone is singing words, and wordless vocals used as another kind of instrument.  

I think that wordless vocals work like violins when it comes to evoking mystery, great emotion, beauty, or even horror.  We\'re accustomed to hearing that in movie scores such as LOTR and the woods of Lothlorien, and in war movies that have vocals based on ideas in Carmina Burana (e.g., Glory, Star Wars).  I even think of the beginning of the game \"Descent 3\", where a solo voice is used with great effect to convey loneliness and sadness.  

In all these, I don\'t recall wondering where the singing was coming from-- it was the mood that was evoked by voices that was the purpose in using them.  The woods of Lothlorien music isn\'t a great example, I suppose, because the elves are singing a lament for Gandalf, and it almost sounds like the music is coming from somewhere in the woods.   But you get my point-- the instruments or vocals aren\'t there because there is an orchestra or a choir present in the actual scene (or in the case of a game, the location) but because those sounds make us feel something.  

Nick

5
General Discussion / Vocals
« on: February 12, 2004, 05:13:55 am »
I believe whemy and daryuu were talking about lyrics, too.  I think lyrics would be ok as long as they were incomprehensible and only in certain parts of the game like the tavern or the temple.  If the game is to give the impression of other worldliness, I don\'t think an actual, living language can be used without sounding a little comical.  But I could be wrong...

Nick

6
General Discussion / Look how many read this thread!
« on: February 11, 2004, 02:31:52 pm »
Hey, Whemy,  you started a very popular thread-- was it the title or the content or both?

Nick

7
General Discussion / I can take it
« on: February 10, 2004, 08:57:33 pm »
Hey guys, don\'t worry about me-- say what comes to mind.  I never take offense and I learn not only about my piece but about you, too :)  Don\'t you agree that people say more in their posts than they sometimes know themselves?

I have a pretty good sense of what I can do and can\'t (I don\'t write lyrics or sing).  Like anybody, I enjoy compliments, but I appreciate criticism more because I have to think a bit.  If someone offers a simple thumbs up or thumbs down on a piece of mine, I don\'t have to think much about that and I\'ve only learned a little bit of information: I\'ve heard someone\'s first impression, a thing I cannot possibly experience with my own music.  It isn\'t a lot, but it is interesting and I\'m glad to know it.   However, I appreciate even more, and agree with completely, Galendan\'s critique-- the melody is lost in a couple of places, especially in the second half, because of the heavy reverb.  I have already been tinkering with that the last couple of days-- trying to keep the sense of a huge space but allowing the melody to sing clearly.

Nick

8
General Discussion / Halo
« on: February 10, 2004, 07:25:06 pm »
I\'m going to have to play Halo or get a hold of the soundtrack-- it gets mentioned so many times it seems to be a standard to measure other game tracks by.

Re my temple music-- I wanted to create what I think of as typical religious music-- monophonic chanting in an old church mode, with light, unobtrusive instrumental support.  I cheated a little because I have two voices singing at once and then a reed instrument improvises on the modal scale.  I added a lot of reverb so that the music sounds like it could be coming from somewhere in the building.  I don\'t know-- a big brassy sound suggests political power to me, or a large, impressive landscape.  Temples make me think of mystery and quiet.  Oh well.  Didn\'t work for you, whemy-- sorry!

Nick

9
General Discussion / Here's a track with vocals...
« on: February 10, 2004, 04:37:00 am »
But they are sampled, alas.  This track works well in the Laanx temple.  Try it out and tell me what you think.


http://www.nicholaspalmer.com/audio/temple_music.wma

It won\'t work in the temple unless you turn off the game music and play this track in Windows Media player.

Nick

10
General Discussion / Vocals
« on: February 09, 2004, 04:34:14 am »
Whatever you experiment with, try the track out with the game and see how it works.  You have to convert your audio file to .ogg (there\'s a free ogg converter on the web) and rename it according to the filename you want to replace in the planeshift/art/music directory.  When you play the game, your track will play at the right time.

Where to put vocals? I don\'t know, probably not in the caverns or outside.  I\'d like to hear some ethereal vocals in the temple in a language I don\'t recognize, or something in the tavern might do well with vocals.  

Nick

11
General Discussion / Touche
« on: February 08, 2004, 07:56:18 pm »
You\'re right, I should have read more carefully allof the posts-- Karyuu is recording live.  Got it.  (I still say get Sibelius if you can afford Finale because the learning curve is much gentler.)  I was responding more than anything to Dalec\'s comment:

It [Finale] is perfect for theme music, especially games, since it plays back the music with each instrument sounding like they should...

I know I\'m going on and on, but...There are four different skills involved here: composition, notation (for printing), sequencing, and recording.  Finale and Sibelius are tools for composition and notation.  The other two skills require different software/hardware, a good bit of time, practice, and guidance to make something that sounds right.  

I hear a variety in the quality of tracks playing in PS right now which has more to do with the quality of the sounds being used rather than the style of composition (though that is apparent, too).  The title music uses low quality (i.e., low sampling rate) instruments, but the track works because the composition and sequencing are good.  The temple music uses much higher quality instruments and so, even though the composition and sequencing is roughly the same quality as the other tracks, the pure sound is much more enjoyable to me.  

The much-maligned cavern track is supposed to sound disjointed and disorienting.  I think it works pretty well because the first time you\'re there, you are lost in a maze for a while.  I think the track would work better if the cello sound were of higher quality.

Anyway, all the music on PS was produced on a computer and it sounds to me like very little if any of it was actually played in freely because of the metrical exactness.  A track with some live music would really be cool, but it is not cheap (money or time) to pull off a good-sounding live recording.

Done.

Nick

12
General Discussion / Heh heh
« on: February 08, 2004, 02:41:33 am »
How funny what we assume...

I stand by my recommendation that if you want to write a game track, you need to use sequencing software, not notational software, unless you are planning to record live music and plan to mix away from a computer.  If you are going to do your mixing with a computer, you most definitely need a sequencer that handles audio editing.

Nick

13
General Discussion / Sequencing vs. Music notation
« on: February 07, 2004, 08:47:14 pm »
Hey, Dalec,

I shouldn\'t have come down so hard on Finale.  It is still the industry standard in American music publishing and Sibelius is not available in a scaled down version, whereas with Finale you can get Finale Allegro ($200ish), PrintMusic ($50ish), and Notepad (used to be free, not sure what it is now).   If you are a college student, you can get deep discounts on almost all software of any kind, so all these things become pretty affordable.

You mentioned that you have a digital recorder-- what do you use to sequence?  I gather from your posts that you use Finale to play the synthesizer and that you record that performance with a digital recorder of some kind.  If I\'m wrong, tell me, but I want to steer musicians away from Finale as a sequencer because it has very limited functionality.  There are several programs ranging from cheap to expensive that do sequencing much better and handle digital recording besides.  As you and I agree, I think, Finale produces a nice looking page of printed music because that is what it is designed to do, but other, much easier to use  software can be found for handling sequencing.  If you haven\'t discovered some of the great software out there, you\'re in for a wonderful surprise.

Nick

14
General Discussion / Don't get Finale
« on: February 07, 2004, 03:29:56 am »
You don\'t want Finale for recording-- it is designed for music notation and Sibelius is better than Finale for that.  I\'ve used both extensively (literally hundreds of pages of music) and Sibelius is easier to use hands down.  If you need to record music, you want to get Sonar from Cakewalk or one of the home versions of that program (there are others someone might recommend).  ProTools is the industry standard, but that is VERY pricey.  Cakewalk will do everything you want, most likely, and will come in an affordable version.  http://www.cakewalk.com

I\'m recording some stuff for PS because I like doing game music, I\'m in between recording gigs, and of all the MMORPGs I\'ve seen online, this one seems to be the furthest along.  Judging from what I\'ve read, the new version will be even better, so I hope I can help out the project for some time to come.  Listen for my tracks in the new version in some of the new parts of the world.

Nick
http://www.nicholaspalmer.com

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