Thoughts on co-existance.

[Asenuth]

Is it possible that power levelers and roleplayers can co-exist?
If it is possible, is it doable?

Can the GMs spare the time to moderate every fight? Can they keep watch of every dispute?
Can they keep track of that is important to both? Do they even number that high?

What of the Developers? Can they make the call for each feature? Can they accept that what the Levelers may love, the Roleplayers may hate? ...or the other way round? Can they spare the time to check that each feature spurns neither one?

And if that was so, should we try?

Everquest, Tibia, Lineage, Runescape, DAoC, etc. These are the places where the levelers are. In each of them is space for every Leveler, Playerkiller and Non-roleplayer that ever did live. In each Roleplayers scrape out their marginal existence... Perhaps the levelers fight even though they have already won? Perhaps they simply do not understand...?

Perhaps, I say, that PlaneShift is where the Roleplayers are? Perhaps in this place is where the levelers are lost? Perhaps in the dungeons of Yliakum is where a dragon of geekish fury slumbers...? Perhaps planeshift is where the roleplayers out-number the levelers, perhaps this is my home?

Then again, perhaps I am merely the voice of a lonely child, who has been here barely a week...?

What say you?

[Draklar]

Hard to say, as it largely depends on the place.

Plaza - many trolls
Arena - many levelers
Tavern - many roleplayers

[mikewsnc]

Originally posted by Draklar
Plaza - many trolls
Arena - many levelers
Tavern - many roleplayers

In MB the rp to pl was maybe 5 to 1
With the induction of CB rp\'ers have lost there
grab on being the majority it would seems more
like a 30/70 split with us on the rp side losing out
and losing ground rapidly.

but on that same note, I\'ll meet you in the Tavern.

[Asenuth]

Originally posted by mikewsnc
In MB the rp to pl was maybe 5 to 1

I suspect that the lack of, well, anything made it rather hard for Levelers to avoid dieing of boredom. Roleplayers, conversely, tend to manage with considerably less features, requiring only enough to anchor a reasonable concept of the game world upon.
It seems was right to think MB would of suited me.

With the induction of CB rp\'ers have lost there
grab on being the majority it would seems more
like a 30/70 split with us on the rp side losing out
and losing ground rapidly.

Nevertheless a far better ratio than is presented on most other games. One can only hope that it turns in our favor, or at least descends no further...

but on that same note, I\'ll meet you in the Tavern.

*Yoink!*

[TheRedMonk]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
With the induction of CB rp\'ers have lost there
grab on being the majority it would seems more
like a 30/70 split with us on the rp side losing out
and losing ground rapidly.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Nevertheless a far better ratio than is presented on most other games. One can only hope that it turns in our favor, or at least descends no further...

Well that is if those numbers are true. I go ingame a lot and get this feeling that it\'s more like 10/90...
Hopefully, people will soon get bored of just leveling and go back to good ol\' RP

[mikewsnc]

ratio may be that out of wack i dont know. me i preaty much just hang in the gathering sections of town so most the people i know are not running around saying \"hey how many rats i gotta kill to lvl\" or \" man we need more monsters im tired of rats\".  so yeah theres probly alot more PL\'s out there than i think, i just dont associate with them. i say leave creatures the way it is right now and add features. i wanna be a smithy for crying out loud. but alas it would seem what i want is much further off.

[Bardialus]

We are already co-existing.  youve proven that to yourself with this thread.

Rp\'ers and Levellers can survive together, they can alos leran from one another.

There just has to be place designated where they can enact these sociopathic activities.
There is already an arena to fight in, all we need is a sperate place where PvP can happen if it needs to.  
That way they are out of sight out of mind, they may also learn RP actions like dealing with groups of challengers to themselves for a change.

You get a reputation as a big man, lots are going to want to come and take that place, eventually it\'ll get on your nerves receiving all those challenges and you look towards the other way of life...RP.
Congratulations you have just had a conversion

[Asenuth]

(I feel I should note at this point that if it seems I\'m on my high-horse, well, I started this thread so I wouldn\'t be on my high-horse in other threads, at least not without warning. I\'m normally more... pragmatic.)

Originally posted by Bardialus
We are already co-existing.  youve proven that to yourself with this thread.

My point is that we are co-existing with the Levelers in much the same way that one has a relationship with one\'s enemies. You do ...technically.

It also seems that we Roleplayers seem to spend an awful of time writing and answering threads like Moogie\'s A moral speech or Seperot\'s New disease sweeping out lands..., Who know how many more just like them are in the archive.

Rp\'ers and Levellers can survive together, they can alos leran from one another.

I can survive a great many things, very few of which are in any way beneficial to me. It seems strange to me that, in a game that is slated towards its \"Core-Roleplayers\" that those same roleplayers are \'surviving\' while the levelers seem to be booming...
I can\'t help but feel that this is somehow... backward.

There just has to be place designated where they can enact these sociopathic activities.
There is already an arena to fight in, all we need is a sperate place where PvP can happen if it needs to.
That way they are out of sight out of mind, they may also learn RP actions like dealing with groups of challengers to themselves for a change.

You get a reputation as a big man, lots are going to want to come and take that place, eventually it\'ll get on your nerves receiving all those challenges and you look towards the other way of life...RP.

Thus generating prestige for levelers (prestige that would otherwise belong to a Roleplayer), taking up bandwidth(1) (ditto), most likely increasing the number of duels in hydlaa plaza (not only a potential threat to realism but potentially scaring off less combat-inclined players), putting the bulk of Planeshift\'s Tria in the hands of the Leveling population (thus, effectively, PlaneShift\'s economy as well.)
Sounds brilliant, where do i sign?

Additionally, those self-same events could happen in another game, with the same basic results. including...
(which brings us to...)

Congratulations you have just had a conversion

I agree that some can be converted, but there is heaven only knows how many games out there that prove \"there\'s plenty more where that came from.\"

Currently there is no reason for new players to even expect that Planeshift is meaningfully different from any other mmorpg out there. There is no indication in the game or on the website of the position that the moderators, developers and elders have been stating over and over: Planeshift is geared towards roleplayers.
Until such an indication is visible we can expect an endless influx of levelers.
Worse, theres no reason for any Roleplayers to think that this game is any different from, say, Rune scape.

That alone should chill you to the bone.

---
You know you\'ve written a long post when you have footnotes...

1.  Admittedly, I recall reading that server bandwidth is no where near full capacity and that theres a rather long list of potential candidates willing to donate additional servers...

[Bardialus]

How many posts will it take to make people learn the true meaning of RP?

In the beginning of RP people like \'levellers\' were independent from the game to the extent that they did achieve prestige.  However through many reviews and updates of the D20 rules those people became equal tothose kind of Char that thrived on the RP aspect of having to deal with things.

That is their aim in this game, to become more powerful.
Real RP is in its core makeup comprised of this effect, and thus different \'paths\' were created for a Char to choose from.

RP is an amalgamation of all the aspects of life within the RP world, once you understand this you understand RP.

[dimaq]

Originally posted by Draklar
Hard to say, as it largely depends on the place.

Plaza - many trolls
Arena - many levelers
Tavern - many roleplayers

Tavern - many lifeless rpg\'ers lost so deep in their obsession that they don\'t ever go out even in a virtual world (i.e. stay in the tavern), in short, dim-wits (pun intended); more like.

I suppoer every sane roleplayer wants to complete quests and explore the furthest corners of the world, and the game should require some levels up to do that...

[Draklar]

Huh, no... they just step inside for a pint or just to talk. Tavern is the place where adventurers go to talk and have fun. And if you see that as a sign of being lifeless, well, no comments :rolleyes:

And for people thinking roleplayers could learn anything from levelers: RPG was never about anything close to leveling.

[Darakus]

Why are you all describing role playing and levelling as fundamental opposites, they are not, I admit to like the levelling bit because it allows me to talk about my killing of two ulbernauts instead of just pretending, it allows me to show the wonderful sword I just made instead of just acting as if I was a smith, it allows me to build the house I imagined, instead of just stating I am a builder, but none of this actually forbids me from acting my part or rather the part of the character I decided to play.

Of course if I don\'t know you I\'ll probably walk past you without saluting you but ask yourself this question, would it be in character to stop and salute someone in the middle of the street if you did not know him ?

In other words, I believe the current separation in PS is

10/60/30  

10 % of the players are what I would deam actors, they don\'t use the game, they just act out the character they imagined
60 % of the players are part actors, part levellers

30 % of the players are pure levellers and not interested by anything else

And that is not such a bad thing, you just have to take the time to address people, you\'ll mostly be surprised to see how much they will do to play their part if you do play yours, of course don\'t expect the same level of acting with all of them as with expert roleplayers, most of the player you meet online have never done much of the paper role playing and have grown used to what game magazines pass out as role playing games )

Then again I might be an optimist but up until now all people I\'ve stopped to talk with took the time to act normal or in character as the case may be.

[Draklar]

Darakus, let\'s point out the fundamental facts. Killing one or two ulbernauts is not leveling. Killing them all day long and doing nothing else is.

[Vengeance]

I haven\'t heard any coherent descriptions of what the RPers want.  What do they want?  What are they missing now?

[Draklar]

Mugs.
No, really that\'s only thing I want now :|
Everything else seems fine so far.