Free Energy Devices

[Icefalcon]

This argument is pathetic. Do you honestly believe that a machine can create energy out of nothing? Hmm, why don\'t we just create another planet to live on while we\'re at it.

It\'s a hoax. Energy cannot simply come into being.

[steuben]

even introducing the concept of quantum foam in to a closed system doesn\'t change the fact that in a closed system the amount of matter-energy doesn\'t change. in quantum foam the particles form in matter/anti-matter pairs. the change in energy from such a formation is zero. the change in energy after they mutally anhilate each other is still zero.

which brings us to hawking radiation. occastionally such a matter/anti-matter pair will form near the event horizon of a black hole. sometimes one of the member of the pair will fall into the black hole. the other member will head off to somewhere else. the black hole becomes slightly smaller as a result of this particle heading off.

but all of this is based on the concept of a plank interval. basically a plank interval is the shortest amount of time that anything can happen. additionally between the two ends of the plank interval you can violate which ever laws of phsyics and thermo you want. just as long as you are not in violation of them at the end of the interval.

there is no such thing as free energy. it always comes at a cost.

[Foresteer]

Originally posted by Icefalcon
Hmm, why don\'t we just create another planet to live on while we\'re at it.

Actualy our own government (American and the EU) is looking into terraforming mars in a few years so

Originally posted by Icefalcon
It\'s a hoax. Energy cannot simply come into being.

then how did you {any of us} come to be talking about this?

anyway.. wow that was what i was hoping for Xantam/Steuben other people with a good knowledge of the topic putting well thought out debate (not to mention putting some of the more far out physics stuff into terms i can understand.. i think mechanicaly, ethereally and in terms of multiverse.. so i find physics is be both hard and not relative most of the time ;( )
 
the last few posts have made this thread exactly what i hoped it would be.. by all means continue

[leji]

Just another note: I hadnt noticed before but the first post mentions a 100kW production, let\'s imagine that this phenomena really exists, knowing that to produce 100kW with a \'standard\' synchronous generator you need quite a big machine (I would say about 2meters high), and that this is the most productive machine we know.
This concept would therefor produce a huge amount of energy per cube meter (according to the photos I\'ve seen on the Internet), this means it would be great to supply mobile units (submarines, planes...) so there :

Show me anything working like this and I\'ll find the funds and political agreement to develop it, I leave in France so dont worry they will not confiscate anything, I know that every scientist just need money and a network to have their inventions work, so here, I\'ll supply money and industrial processes, just give me something that works !
Start by this :

1) post detailed construction diagrams, assembly instructions and photos of the work in progress.
2) post them to me and others via PM, and only then on the net, just in case the conspiracy theory is true (After all, governments constantly prove that they can\'t be trusted).
3) produce a film of it working, at full load, for an extended duration, ensuring that all possible questionable circumstances are removed, though a movie can be easily manipulated.

I disagree with the \'produce lots of them\' thing cause then I could loose the market

Best regards

[Foresteer]

Oooooh france i can think of no better nation to make sure all nations get access to it (i mean that non-sarcasticly just to clear up any potential confusion)

Now if only i had some spare money for building XD (That \"food\" thing doesnt buy itself.. i wish it did though )

Also with a forein power and EU member there is little to no chance of suppression.... as over on that side of the pond they dont listen to our government anyway

Originally posted by leji
I disagree with the \'produce lots of them\' thing cause then I could loose the market

hehe i like the way you think leji **

EDIT: my thought as well.. not needed to fuel planes or ships as they carry thier own electric fuel. not needing to expend so much time and manpower to getting oil and generating electricity would leave mankind to do many more things we couldn\'t previously... such i device could lead to the dawn of a new epoch

[Foresteer]

EDIT: man i need to go to sleep already.. this is my 2nd time doing this ;( please delete n_n;;

[Icefalcon]

Originally posted by Foresteer
then how did you {any of us} come to be talking about this?

It certainly wasn\'t by a machine... But thats getting into religion, and religion tends to be deleted on these forums.

[Foresteer]

Well the question was retorical... if energy cant come into being.. then how did we (being made of energy) and everything else come to be?

and whats not to say it wasnt by some machine we dont know.. of course it wasnt by THIS machine but still begs the question O.o

[XpYtZ]

Ok, I got tired of reading ad dropped the last, oh...7 posts. So I\'m probably out of context but.

A: I have had a number of friends who\'s inventions I have seen working (in one case actually tested) that have been bought by various companies and have never seen the light of day because they might bring an accepted way of buisnes to its knees.
B: \"free energy\" is a buzz word. There is no such thing as an \'infinite energy source\' that we just haven\'t tapped. All things are finite (leaving Deity out of this) and so if there is an untapped energy source it is the finite remanant of another energy source -though that cycle could go on for an incalculable finite period.
C: Magnetic propulsion works untill the magnets (either electro magnets -pointless in this particular experiment since they consume large amounts of power- or naturally occuring) reach zero so you can\'t call any magnetically driven device an infinate motion device...it will eventually need to be replaced.
D: The government would not wait for him to turn it on...they don\'t have to...they can take it at will and leave no one around who remembers it. (There, enjoy your conspiracy theory.)
E: I like bombs! I once made one out of some batteries, nails, baking soda, salt, eye drops, asprin and a grip of vinagar. I\'m sure some of those theings did not need to be in the jar but the stump I put it in sure as hell hated me...as did the neighbors cat. (good idea; making a bomb. Bad idea seting live bait in the testing zone...in a cage  8o )

Now that I\'ve said all that. There are devices that can be made which output a fair amount of power for verry little fuel when tweeked. GE just made a diesel turbine that works wonderfully, so I encourage anyone whith the time to go ahead and make one of these. If it works, hell we\'ve proven that all our physics knowledge is crap. If it doesen\'t we all know the article was crap. Why the endless verbal debate eh? Try it out for Gods sake.

PS: \"infinite improbability drive anyone?\"

[Foresteer]

Yeah i know what you are saying.. i purposly titled this incoreectly becuase \"finite homopolar electronic generating devices\" wouldn\'t have garnerd near the attention needed to keep te disscussion afloat

A: yeah arent they fun to watch?

B: true... refer to top of post

C: Granted but you can quickly give a magnet back its charge by rubbing other magnets on it so its a VASTLY cleaner and more replenishing power source then oil

D: that was what monketh took all out of purportion and went on a \"holier-then-thou\" rampage about.. i just made the connection between republican oil lobby (proven to exist i will laugh you all the way back to your right wing brainwashing sunday school if you can tell me otherwise with a straight face XD )

And the fact that one of our biggest parties (and richest and not afraid to use its muscle to intimidate) would lose its funding if these things where to become mainstream.. therefore unless another nation markets it and puts out info all over so it cant be disclaimed or somebody just runs onto live news and forces them to demonstrate it.. i see no way this can happen in america at the moment O.o

and i do enjoy my conspericies.. i have since my first \"Para\" book \"Cryptozoology and the ET connection\" at age 8

E: who the F*** doesnt like bombs ?!

Originally posted by XpYtZ Now that I\'ve said all that. There are devices that can be made which output a fair amount of power for verry little fuel when tweeked. GE just made a diesel turbine that works wonderfully, so I encourage anyone whith the time to go ahead and make one of these. If it works, hell we\'ve proven that all our physics knowledge is crap. If it doesen\'t we all know the article was crap. Why the endless verbal debate eh? Try it out for Gods sake.

i could grow to like you very quickly i tend to think mechanics is the only physics.. i mean this gear turns that Gear... it has worked and will till we all blow ourselves up :O . You know i think ive figured out why science is in a  rut lately... its this damned \"this is impossible because our flawed to hell \'Physics\' says so\" mentality amoungst the scientific community oh well.. my rant is now done n_n;

[Draklar]

Hmm... it would be great if this would be actually possible. Can\'t say whether I believe it or not, I guess I\'ll simply live on and see what happens.

But when I look at the posts from most of the people with physics education here, this quote comes to my mind:

Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it.
-- Stephen Vizinczey

I mean if saying that something isn\'t possible because physics (A thing that was proven wrong countless times already) says so, isn\'t sheer stupidity then what is?

Eh, I\'ll end with quote from someone that I truly admire:

\"Our quest of the highest theory,
Is controlled by that theory,
So the way we think
Is the closest link?
An expedition through different views
Gives us richly faceted clues,
Let us focus on some of the elements
That\'s a source for endless experiments\"
-- Vintersorg

[Monketh]

Originally posted by Foresteer
I am american.. its not an \"assumtion\" its my day to day life throughout SEVERAL states are all americans bad? nope.. are most.. again no, they still can be intolorent, unwilling to change OR think outside the box... hence \"MODERN americanism\"

Good, you\'re willing to tone it down.

\"old\" americanism is probably the best thing to happen to the world has a whole.. refer to FDR\'s presidency ;) (not truman though talk about riding the coat-tails of anothers sucess)

FDR was good, modern apathy is unfortunate.  I recall hearing that just as many in proportion deserted WWII as Vietnam, as Iraq2.  Ditto for casualty rates.

\"\"if i cant win i wont try...\" I would win, but like I said, it nags me to leave an argument unfinished and I\'m leaving on vacation. \"
\"I had planned to argue you into submission because you\'re just spewing worthless anti-republican rhetoric.\"

wow for never saying anything to me that abouts to more then \"OMG i r0xx0rz j00 suxx0rz\" you sure are confident O.o

Yes, I am confident.  I am argumentative by nature when it comes to politics, and in this case, I feel I\'m right.

\"Don\'t expect a reply for a while.\"

cool then maybe i can have a good disscussion in you absence :P

You could have had a good discussion if you didn\'t insist on complaining uselessly about the republican party.

also your edit must have seemed cool when you wrote it but it actualy proves what i just said.. you used your original quote in EXACTLY the context that my quote countered.. in the buisness thats what we call \"Self-Ownage\"

You said that if I didn\'t have the common sense (ie: intelligence) to see a republican oil conspiracy, you didn\'t want to deal with me.  (which amounts to \"You\'re like a typical americanistic who says:\'You are dumb, I am smart, so I shouldn\'t have to bother with you.\'\")  And by that you are a \'typical americanistic\'.
The qoutes may not have been used in the way you saw them, but the display of your hypocrisy stands.

Also funny how you never admited there could be a flaw in YOUR common sense.. i will openly admit 8 days a week my judment, mental state/health and sense could be full of holes XD

I never said there couldn\'t be.  Also \"I can call anything common sense\" is applied to a possibility of me calling something that isn\'t common sense common sense.
No fault here.

Also \"you are one of the vast population of \"Ignorant Liberals\"\" i am a libertarian who sometimes goes green.... thats a moderate dumbass :/ i loathe republicans and the right wing only some (ok quite a bit more but whatever) more then i hate the far left wing.. once i see the right fascism in smolders the left commy one will be next in ye \'ol tyme crosshairs (still if i had to pick i\'d pick a stalin over a hitler any day)

1.\"dumbass\"  You got angry that fast?  I mean, calling names is so a mature thing to do.
You can be libertarian and liberal at the same time.  Also, being libertarian does not necessarily make you moderate.  That much is obvious.
Stalin killed more people than Hitler, but a Stalin would be easier to get rid of.

Anyhowdy i lost the link but i found something about wireless transmission of electricity and how tesla found some kinda \"electric feedback\" from that form of transmission that created more energy then he sent originaly, that sounds like the most plausible form of a free energy device i\'ve found so far

*shrug*  I don\'t keep track of these things since I\'ve yet to see one of them work.

a later post...
Actualy our own government (American and the EU) is looking into terraforming mars in a few years so  

Define \"a few years\".  Bush told NASA \'Mars er\' bust!\', but not terraforming.  That doesn\'t exist at a necessary level yet.

As for your reply to D:Oil connections exist but are of negligible importance, and you can\'t laugh me back to a sunday school as I\'m agnostic.  Plus, what the heck makes you think most christians are republicans?
Anyway, I positively despise conspiracy theories and theorists.  It\'s easy to yell that there\'s no proof because it\'s hidden by the government/big-business, but it\'s hard to convince them to go look for it.  I find it funny how anti-business and others are given te benefit of the doubt nearly always, but never the government.  Bleh.

Anywho, if you\'re american I can harass you about your lack of capitalization.  :P

Oooooh france :) i can think of no better nation to make sure all nations get access to it :D (i mean that non-sarcasticly just to clear up any potential confusion)

I object vigorously!  Donnez-le a les Quebecois, ils parlent francais aussi.
:P (Yes, I\'m just kidding.)

[steuben]

thinking back to one of the statements in original article. if he turns it on the then the government will come and take it and him away, or at least words to that effect. as i think about it two questions arise. one, how does he know if it will work, if he hasn\'t turned it on? two, how will the government know if he does turn it on?

[Draklar]

...

turn on can mean display to the publicity...

[Hatchnet]

While I have yet to do any reaserch into zero point energy; I will tell you this:

If you replace the gasoline motor of an electric generator with an electric motor of the same mechanical output it (the generator) will produce far more electricity(as in a HELL of alot more) than the electricity required to run the electric motor.

In short scientists are idiots, there is a definative set of physical laws we just don\'t know them yet, and there is no such thing as common sence because just like common knowledge everybody has there own version.


P.S. Replaceing the motors on the generator actually works (I\'ve tried it), I am an American (and proud of it), and I am a republican (who belives that there is a conspiracy to support the big buissness known as the petrolium industry).