Free Energy Devices

[steuben]

how were you measuring the output? open circuit or closed circuit with a load? i find it odd. but let\'s try a simple test.

take a standard, heating element. hook it up to the electric motor/generator combo. put a pot of water on the element and see how long it takes to boil. repeat with the gas motor/generator, and simple mains power.  

[Hatchnet]

Originally posted by steuben
how were you measuring the output? open circuit or closed circuit with a load? i find it odd. but let\'s try a simple test.

take a standard, heating element. hook it up to the electric motor/generator combo. put a pot of water on the element and see how long it takes to boil. repeat with the gas motor/generator, and simple mains power.  

steuben your an itiot.

The output of the generator will be the same with both motors because they have the same mechanical output. However because exlposive force does not equal magnetic force the electric (or electromagnetic) motor is ran of of far less energy than the gasoline (or internal combustion) motor. In fact properly looped the device is even capeable of powering itself alongside its aplicational use.

[XpYtZ]

Lets see here...

Blueprints from DePalma: After scrutinizing them with my father inlaw (electrical engenier(sp)) they look like they would at least work mechanically so that\'s a point to him. Sadly the article that started this thread must be older than 1997 since that is when DePalma died. That\'s right boys and girls the inventor is dead.
The Japanieze fellow (or was it chinese? hell...) the asian fellow that was working on DePalma\'s research never was. He was in comunication with DePalma but says in a paper I found that DePalma\'s invention can\'t deliver...though he claims that with a couple of tweeks (and by tweeks he means drilling five holes down the core, in a star pattern and filling them with mercury.) he was able to boost the output to a point where it actually did carry it\'s own load and that of a telivision set. Not nearly the articles 50kW to 500kW (I know those are the wrong numbers I\'m lazy)
The papers also point out that the output is Hi amps Low volts which brings me around to Tesla.
Tesla\'s idea was that energy (much like static electricity) could be fired from one point to another without harming people as long as the draw was stronger between the two points, a theory that is sound. A falure in the system however could cause catostophic damage (not just calaterally) and so it was generally abandon. Tesla did infact descover that energy was somehow being increased between the jumps and proposed that the energy while jumping either A) drew another latent energy form from the air around it as part of an unexplained reaction or B) the collection modules themselves were so attractive that they drew (radical) energy from the air and held it untill the charge was large enough to jump to the next point.
DePalma claimed that magnets bent space and in so doing released small (radical) energy into the sorrounding space which cascaded untill meeting a collection plant (even humans can be collection plants in his scenario). He claimed that his Quadra-Homopolar generator (a homopolar generator that uses two sets of opposing magnetic fields) generated a large enough field of bent space to be mesured. The asian fellow mentioned earlier wrote DePalma shortly before his [DePalam\'s] death to inform him that he had solved a problem in the generator by which adding a load instantly instead of slowly caused a drop in the energy field which brought the generator to its knees.
Basicly DePalma\'s origional Quadra-Homopolar Generator came crashing down and needed a restart if a load greater that the origional energy imput (that going to the motor) was added.
Note also that low wats/high amps is much like the DC power shamble that happened when New York (USA) was first wired and was using DC for their power system. As I recall from history class people suffered sudden heart attacks and horses died instantly for no apparent reason untill someone figured out that the cables were not properly insulated and shut everything down.
All that to say: Sure DePalma\'s work was another step in the right direction but it needs serious research and funding to become plausable. Even if it ended up working eventually it would take a while to impliment in any culture since all appliances and wireing would have to be re-enginiered.

[steuben]

Originally posted by Hatchnet
In fact properly looped the device is even capeable of powering itself alongside its aplicational use.

have you tried that? or even simply just pumping the generated power back into the motor?

[Foresteer]

Well i didn\'t tone it down.. you just took what you thought i said as \"toned up\" i simply clarified by capitalizing MODERN for the added emphasis

Yes the modern apathy and loss of nation pride is a great blow :/ FDR was the shiz.. took us from dust bowl/Great depression into the single world suerpower (till russia got back on its legs) cant forget ole Teddy roosvelt

I\'m the same way gotta love a good debate, they are truely how the most things get learned in the least amount of time

Granted i can come off as a \"ignorant liberal\" but just because i\'m \"anti-conservitive\" doesn\'t make me liberal by default

Also you need a little backstory to understand me fully... i come from Texas.. not the desert but E texas.. i come from the far right side of texas (right policaly) so i have seen Nazi right-wing hatred and ignorance in all its fruition.. needless to say i left there to get away from that and i dont want to see that spread; hence my war on the right wing

Also \"Burn on me! i g0t pwnz0rd\" yeah i guess i came off that way (as average modern american) as you said.. so i concede that point... even i cant escape my roots fully sometimes ;(

Meh i had gotten done watching \"Super Milk chan\" so dumbass was just me being a smart one (smartass) if you took it as an insult then my bad XD guess i didnt word it right (i am usualy sleep deprived from study)

Actualy they are very important.. Oil is the current energy baron, itdoesnt WANT to be replaced. Congrats on not getting sucked in by religion, i never said that all christians are.. thats you feeding words in my mouth

And i\'m sorry you despise my kind *shrug* most of them deserve it though so \"if it dont apply let it fly\" and i\'ll let it fly

And this is a casual post/forum... if youd like me to take longer to throw ideas around but have it all grammaticaly correct i can do that i guess n_n;;

Hatchnet \"I am an American (and proud of it), and I am a republican (who belives that there is a conspiracy to support the big buissness known as the petrolium industry).\"

Glad you are, Nothing wrong with that (republicans have a lot of buisness sense.. it just 99% of the time seems to get the higher ups of thier party in trouble)

My only real beef with the AVERAGE republican is the \"Family Values over Personal Freedom\" you are the ying to my yang... But if \"Protecting you children\" Makes me have to join a list just to rent porn or other such nonsense i\'ve heard suggested  then i\'m gonna have to drop the hammer.. i\'m sorry

Most of the Average Republicans are just average joes trying to get by.. and there aint nothing wrong with that.. my real beef as i stated is with the family values over all other things and the high end rich republican oil barons who keep us poor and rip us off

And glad you\'ve noticed how oil always seems to get a big peice of our tax pie O.o

EDIT: well that was long.. if i missed adressing something just bring it to my attention... i edited because i have the nagging suspision i forgot to say/reply to something XD

[Hatchnet]

Originally posted by steuben

Originally posted by Hatchnet
In fact properly looped the device is even capeable of powering itself alongside its aplicational use.

have you tried that? or even simply just pumping the generated power back into the motor?

Well considering we had in pluged into one of the 220 lines in the turkey house while the power was out I\'d say yes. And yes it was powering everything in all three turkey houses as well as the turky house well house at the time no where near the generators  original capacity but just to give you an idea it was running 23 industrial fans (off of 220 lines), all the overhead lights, three feed hoppers (from the feed bins) three feed rails, and the well pump. And by the way the motor we put on there was a spare fan motor and actualy had a little more output than the gasoline motor we took off.

[XpYtZ]

Monkeths comment about religion was justified by your \"sunday school\" comment. Just to clear that up. I was also under the impression that you were refering to the church in general as the brainwashing academy of republicans in much the same maner as many churches regard the public school system as the brainwashing academy of the liberals. On that point i can\'t say that either view is wrong since people will always teach their viewpoint as fact instead of a viewpoint.
That said I have to point out I am not agnostic: My signature is from Luke (Hebrew names version) and I am wrather offended by the sugestion (no statements were made that I read, only sugestions) that sunday school has brainwashed many christians into being republican. Just so hapens that a recent pole found 76% of regular church atendees in my area to be Democratic so the sugestions are on shaky ground at best. MHO
Can we get back to what the thread is about?

[Foresteer]

No not quite what i meant. Of corse any institution that tells young impressionable kids any one thing is the absolute truth is branwashing (yes even school)

And well guess that was ya\'ll impression.. not my inferrence; cant be held for how ya\'ll take something, only how i meant it *shrug*

\'bout the last thing i can say is any offence you took was at at something you percieved.. while sorry you percieved my statement as you did i still dont take it back or apologize for it (i never apologize for what i say.. especialy if i meant it.. sorry im not a PC person so if you cant handle it then it sucks to be you).. i mearly meant \"sunday school\" as something right wing and for those who are immature and as i stated any offence you took was created by you and you alone XD would you rather i had said \"something that for children and that is right wing family value oriented that would lead you to believe the right has no flaws\"? i didnt think so.. so i shorted it to the nearest common denominator

Now as i seem to have taken some accute food poisioning i wont be posting for a few hours at even the  best case scenario ;(

anyway yes lets get back to the original topic (man i made one off-hand remark in the beggining of this thread and it takes the whole thread of course XD)

EDIT: fixed typos that being sick and al made me miss

[davo]

ok this is simple whatchama callit energy.

perpetual ? and it does exist.  though not as big and i couldent build it .  the hair is accurate though in my pic.



and there you have it

or if that doesent work

http://img213.exs.cx/img213/5818/magnet5ps.jpg


edit: no i seriously does work, just not as big.  you would have seen them at science fairs ect.

it just spins constantly....because you know how magnets repel each other ? well one on the top pushing and one on the bottom pulling makes it spin constanty and it is perpetual motion

[Foresteer]

wow that is a great machine davo... im gonna try building one now!! O.o i truely bow to your awe inspiring mechanical skills.. you are the next einstien the harbringer of a new age in scientific thinking, you are truely the now and forever god of all things intellectual i say we close the thread now... this whole free energy thing has now been solved

also \"PH34R M4 M4D H33L!NG SK!LLZ!!!1!!one!!11eleven\" i scoff at thee oh contaminated ham SCOFF AT THEE!! seriously i usualy bounce back pretty quick from sickness.. oh look a ham! mmmm ham XD (i dont place myself above it either, better throw that ham out after i post while im at it... and not forget and eat it again O.o well my tummy is all better yay...

A WINNER IS ME![/i]

[steuben]

Originally posted by Hatchnet
Well considering we had in pluged into one of the 220 lines in the turkey house while the power was out I\'d say yes. And yes it was powering everything in all three turkey houses as well as the turky house well house at the time no where near the generators  original capacity but just to give you an idea it was running 23 industrial fans (off of 220 lines), all the overhead lights, three feed hoppers (from the feed bins) three feed rails, and the well pump. And by the way the motor we put on there was a spare fan motor and actualy had a little more output than the gasoline motor we took off.

just so that i have things physically laid out. you have plugged all the mains power into the generator. after having thrown the appropriate switches so that you wouldn\'t be feeding back into the grid and killing some poor lineman trying to get the power back up. you then removed the gas motor from the generator. put the fan motor in its place. then plugged the fan motor into?

[JellyWerker]

I built one..., stupid thing almost killed me when I plugged it in.... I had everything measured perfectly, that thing was symmetrical and everything, and it just sat there, a waste of $80 bucks that I should have put towards computer parts. It is happily awaiting trash day now, which is actually in a few hours, woohoo!

[Foresteer]

Yeah... sure you did.. no seriously im not doubting you at all *snickers* well i gotta go do that thing... that i gotta go do o.o;

[Xantam]

This argument is pathetic. Do you honestly believe that a machine can create energy out of nothing? Hmm, why don\'t we just create another planet to live on while we\'re at it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect
The Casimir effect is energy from nothing (Not really \"nothing\", but rather due to quantum foam / ZPE).

It\'s a hoax. Energy cannot simply come into being.

Look up quantum foam & zero point energy. You also might want to see this.

even introducing the concept of quantum foam in to a closed system doesn\'t change the fact that in a closed system the amount of matter-energy doesn\'t change. in quantum foam the particles form in matter/anti-matter pairs. the change in energy from such a formation is zero. the change in energy after they mutally anhilate each other is still zero.

Antimatter is not composed of negative energy. These particle pairs are supposedly cancelled out by their own gravity, IIRC. Also, due to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, one might argue that you cannot have a truely closed system, as the ZPE would seem to indicate, effectively restricting closed systems to gedanken.
The question is not whether something can come from nothing, the question is whether we can exploit it for something more than we see with the Casimir effect.

There are devices that can be made which output a fair amount of power for verry little fuel when tweeked. GE just made a diesel turbine that works wonderfully, so I encourage anyone whith the time to go ahead and make one of these. If it works, hell we\'ve proven that all our physics knowledge is crap. If it doesen\'t we all know the article was crap. Why the endless verbal debate eh? Try it out for Gods sake.

I think most of us agree the article is bunk. The topic is worth debating though.

[steuben]

>>Antimatter is not composed of negative energy. These particle pairs are supposedly cancelled out by their own gravity, IIRC.

well yes and no. energy, for the most part, is an absolute value concept. however, anti-matter, or matter depending on which side of the mirror you live on, can have negative energy effects

>>Also, due to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, one might argue that you cannot have a truely closed system

one might, but they wouldn\'t be able to get very far. even with heisenburg you can still have closed systems. hesienburg say nothing about the conservation of energies. it only says about the ability to measure the speed and location of a particle.

zpe and quantum foam don\'t invalidate the concept of a closed system. simply because of the definition of a closed system. and for that matter the definition of quantum foam. the boundries may change but the concept still remains the same. a closed system will have no change in the mass-energy of it.


and i think i found the arctile refering to negative energy, it comes from the janurary 2000 scientific american.