Disheartening to say the least.

[Efflixi Aduro]

sashok there is a warning and it is a persons choice if they wish to see it or not so just leave it
And even if people can\'t do anything I feel they have the right to be informed, i sure would want to be

[Foresteer]

Originally posted by JellyWerker
btw Foresteer: people like you are part of the problem, gullible to the point of violence, man\'s greatest piece of literature , the bible, says what? for man to be masters of the earth. No animals life is worth that of a humans, they don\'t have souls, nor a conciense(sp) They may feel pain, but the feel it stupidly, e.g.: \"ow, this thing is hurting me!\", not \"why are the people persecuting me?\" Think about it, if you are an evolutionist, this is actually a good thing, it is survival of the fittest, the humans, dominating other species that aren\'t \"fit.\" You need to look at a thing from all viewpoints before you can give it a true judgment. And if you start handing out \"tickets,\" you\'ll be arrested, because there are still sane people on the earth that think humans are better than animals.

Oh ho ho.. oh man.. i havent laughed that hard in a LONGGGGG time.. oh hehehahahi XD

Mans GREATEST peice of literature? oh man.. you must have only read the the first four books of the new testiment.. and didnt read the rest.. Joshua was ordered by god to do some \"Ethnic Cleansing\" of the palestinians in the book of exodus something we consider a war crime to day.. \"god\" has ordered stuff just as hanous as \"allah\" the bible is the qouran (spelling?) just another flavor.. Best peice of.. *giggles* oh man *wipes tear*

\"Think about it, if you are an evolutionist, this is actually a good thing, it is survival of the fittest, the humans, dominating other species that aren\'t \"fit.\" You need to look at a thing from all viewpoints before you can give it a true judgment. And if you start handing out \"tickets,\" you\'ll be arrested, because there are still sane people on the earth that think humans are better than animals.\"

Actualy i mean that retoricaly but if i thought i could get away with it i would.. My killing them would just be me \"evolving\" past my other men..  besides with your logic if they cant defend themselves from me.. \"Goodbye... you are the weakest link\"


also if it was a third world country like most fur farms are thier governments wouldnt do shit to stop me anyway so

That stuff actualy happens and if you support it then you my friend and others like you are the \"viral\" strain of humans Agent Smith spoke of in the matrix**

I prefer being a mammal who lives in equalibrium with nature... not using it.. if you listen to that \"masters of all the beasts\" then you are a sad sad induvidual who takes a 2000 year old work of literature (not a religious text) wayyy to seriously

** The quote

originally said by Agent Smith

Agent Smith: I\'d like to share a revelation that I\'ve had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you\'re not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plague, and we are the cure.

[Efflixi Aduro]

Foresteer you are forgetting one thing, THESE ANIMALS ARE ALIVE!!!! Tell me somthing is it \"survival of the fittest\" to take 5 seconds of you life to kill a poor animal with a knife before you skin the poor thing then leave it alive? How bout I get a bear to eat a couple people alive and call it \"survival of the fittest\", I will be charged for murdur and thrown into jail or put to death.

[Foresteer]

XD i knew i forgot to address something... i never said it was ok or good.. (im the fanatic green remember? )

Fur is completly wrong in my opinion.. USLESS the fur is off a animal that you are going to eat or use as much as possible ANYWAY that is natural balance... its not wrong to kill and meat ISNT murder.. excessive meat and fur harvesting IS

[Hatchnet]

There are alot of different view points posted about this subject but being from a mixture of farm and city life I can understand both sides of the issue here. However there are some very important points about this subject I would like to make.

(1) PETA is a dangerous extremist group not to be trusted or belived.
(2) Real animal fur is a necesity in much of the world as the synthetic freezes and breaks at the the colder temperatures even as far south as the US Canada border.
(3) Much of the way these animals were treated is illegal in most of the world. THIS INCLUDES LIVE SKINNING!
(4) These animals were bread and raised for their fur.
(5) This video was more than likely staged for several obvious reasons (point number three amoung them).
(6) I may have raised and slaughtered animals for meat and hide but if these animals are actualy being treated the way they are in the video (which is just wrong; no animal even those being killed for meat and hide should have to endure that kind of torture) tell me where so I can go \"collect a few scalps\"

[sashok]

Good points Hatchnet. Another thing I would like you to see is that under the video, Peta has a link \"donate now\" so that if you are on top of your emotional climax sorta speak you will not miss the button to give them money.  
I can\'t stand any organization , whether it\'s help children, help poor, help victims of tsunami or animals that do that.. particularly show some sad pictures/video and ask you to donate.  Sure, they need money, but the way they collect it pisses me off.  PISS off PETA and take your cruel videos with you and beat off to them yourself.  damn video ruined my night time sleep.  eeeh should have read the warning...

[Kixie]

Interesting points, and I agree it is definately good to take videos by an organization with an objective, with a grain of salt. But the fact of the matter remains. This does happen. It happens alot. I for one am not going to sit around with my fingers up my you-know-what and trick myself into forgetting this happens. It\'s wrong by my beliefs, and I\'m not the kind of person who can ignore such an unbelievable lack of humanity.

You can make your own decisions after you watch this. It\'s your life to live, not mine. However, all I ask is you actually watch this for as long as you can, and tell me that something doesn\'t need to be done about this.

[Socrates Demise]

Just my two cents

I must agree that this video is disturbing... but I don\'t believe it... It just dosen\'t make sense why would anyone make more work for themselves by trying this while the animal is still alive?

I would also agree with Jellywalker that tis video was probably staged by PETA.

I cannot belive that they are still in existance.  The leaders at PETA are... well... Insane.  I have been personaly threatoned with my life by a member of PETA.  Because I hunt and fish.  I tried to explain to them that as a hunter and by following the laws put down by the department of wildlive I am helping the deer and elk population.  We have taken away much of their habaitat and natural preditors.

I consider myself a good stuart of the land.  I will not kill something I do not inted to eat.  It sadens me to see \"Trolphy Hunters\" I remeber one time I was hunting and found a carcas of an els with only the head removed and I felt verry angry at whoever did that.  

Sorry about the rant... I just get verry upset when I see PETA I agree that what was in that video is verry disturbing.  But I don\'t feel that it is something that happens everyday.  It is much easier to skin an animal when it is not alive.  PETA loves to make people feel bad by showing things like this.

Just look at the messages posted so far about this.  Thiese reactions are the natural reaction to something like this.  It might be different if people (as a whole) didn\'t feel that this is worng... but they do.  It is not normal for a person to do what is dipicted in this video.  It just dosen\'t make sense.  This was either staged or at the least it is a rare occurance.  It\'s just to unnatural.

[Foresteer]

yeah im not as extreme as PETA.. more along the lines of greenpeace.. anyway Hatchnet made a good point.. most of all if you are going to raise a animal to kill at least USE ALL OF IT just raising a life to use one part is just the same as the argument over stem cells so there

[faldrok]

That is well, simply put, horrible and inhumane. The skinning part doesn\'t bother me if they did it right after they killed the animal. Or, at least kill the animal after you skin it to put it out of its misery. I, like some others, think that humans and animals should be considered equal, or at least humans just a little above in the chain. Like the famous quote, \"Treat others as you would want to be treated.\" I think the same should apply to animals.

Also, like others, the people at PETA are pretty well, crazed and obsessive. All living beings should have the right to not be tortured, and when they die, hopefully it will end quick.

That\'s about all I have to say on the subject. Just about everything has been said, and I didn\'t want to repeat too much.

[Hatchnet]

Originally posted by Foresteer
yeah im not as extreme as PETA.. more along the lines of greenpeace.. anyway Hatchnet made a good point.. most of all if you are going to raise a animal to kill at least USE ALL OF IT just raising a life to use one part is just the same as the argument over stem cells so there

Damb can\'t prove me wrongs takeing things out of context.

Forester are you going to eat a racoon, or an ermine, or a fox, or a badger? About the only edible animal I saw in the video was a small bear. Use what can be used of the animal but don\'t gripe about the discarding of what can\'t be used.

Also you aparently missed one of the other points. These animals were raised for the purpose of being skined for their hides. And while this does not make the way they were kept or skined right; it does mean that there is nothing wrong with the fact that they were skined.

And one more thing this and stem cells realy don\'t compare well as an argument. Now on the other hand if we were talking about simply cloneing the animal hides from animal stem cells then it would, but that is a comepletely different topic and of topic for this thread so we won\'t go there.


Edit: And by the way Kixie this isn\'t all that graphic just disturbing to \"human\" sensibilitys of how something like an animal should be treated. I would suggest you never watch a how to video were they actualy show the complete process of skining and/or butchering an animal; now that\'s graphic.

[Foresteer]

you could eat all of those.. in fact i dont know of a mammal that CANT be eaten (even small squirles can be eaten) bones can be used for crafting Skin for the obvious and the rest can be used as animal feed

I wasnt griping O.o last i recall (and these being MY words i should know ) i said used all that is possible i mean all of it could be used but some just isnt practical (like tendons)

And yeah they are the same.. raising an animal just for its fur is the same as raising a fetus just for its stem cells

i agreed with you (or at least what i gathered from your wording.. it was a little ambigous though) and i get snapped at XD

(man the normal Ps forum high Intelligence has taken a downward spiral in the area of comprehention in this thread it seems.. maybe we\'re all tired :/ and just not getting what each other is saying)

[Hatchnet]

In response to your last post Forester I can think of only one thing to say and unfortunatly it is a flame.....




CITYSLICKER


You can not eat predaters, and the majority of the time it is not wise to eat scavangers. You show how truly little you know by claming that we could eat animals like mink, fox, and ermine. And while in some circles coon is considered quite tasty; I would suggest that if you try it you carefully moniter what it eats before you slaughter it.

[Socrates Demise]

Hatchnet

You can eat all of those... they just arn\'t the most nutricious or delicious things to eat because they are on the second tier of the animal food chain and humans are not equiped to live on a strictly carniviorus dies none the less on a strictly carnivourous diet if carnivours.

[Hatchnet]

Originally posted by Socrates Demise
Hatchnet

You can eat all of those... they just arn\'t the most nutricious or delicious things to eat because they are on the second tier of the animal food chain and humans are not equiped to live on a strictly carniviorus dies none the less on a strictly carnivourous diet if carnivours.

Your right we are not equiped to deal with meat because it does not provide any of the necesary protiens that come from the herbivors and omnivors consumtion of plants. You can eat predaters but if you do unfortunatly YOU WILL GET SICK. Only certain types of animals are equiped to eat the meat of carniverous animals and you will notice that the predaters that are not will leave the carcase of another predater alone.