huge flaw in combat

[Vandel]

I was gonna keep this to myself, because it\'s really handy, and I\'m not sure if this is even fixable.

I can engage enemies, kill them, and not be attacked back.

I first encoutered this in the sewers with rat hunting.

If you can manage to them in a position where they cannot follow you, all you hav to do is approach them slowly and hit the attack button, there\'s a point where you are able to engage and attack, but the creatures do not retaliate.

second flaw.  I am able to do this now without getting a creature stuck.  If you approach them, engage, and step back the click engage, they stand in place.  You can then approach them slowly as if they were stuck in the previous example, and attack them in the same way without having to worry about being attacked back.

on a whole... I hope this can be fixed, or since this was posted, there\'s going to be an awful lot of people who are going to still be able to cheat.

It is very effective.  I can engage ubernauts with my super weak character.  I can\'t do any damage, but if I was slightly better I could take them on easily with no worries.  I had to develop the second exploit, as in the valley and such you can walk through trees so there\'s nothing to get creatures stuck on.

2 huge flaws, which need to be resolved in the combat system.

Also, I know there\'s an ambidextrous advantage, but with the cat race for some reason the left hand is the right hand.  The animations are backwards.  So it appears as though I\'m attacking with my shield.  And there does not seem to be any increase in damage when using weapons on anything other than normal.

Also, it does not seem to be taking into consideration attacking with two weapons.  This also goes for mining, I have to put a pick in my left hand.  When it\'s in my right hand the game tells me I do not have pick in my right hand.  So I put it in my left hand and it\'s fine.

[Suno_Regin]

Thats the same with Klyros, we attack with our sheild, I think it also happens with other races, but so far these are the only 2 i heard of

[Externals]

Yea, iv seen this happen lots of times. Not a big issue if your actually hitting with your sword and it looks like you are hitting with your shield. But if in fact, you are hitting with your shield and your shield is the one doing the dmg, well, you wont be hitting hard now will you? Should try to be fixed. Have you tried shifting your weapon and shield to the opposite hand? i think its inverted.

[MaidenIndigo]

Originally posted by Externals
Should try to be fixed. Have you tried shifting your weapon and shield to the opposite hand? i think its inverted.

Aye, the female Enkidukai models are left-handed, whereas their equipment menu displays the sword on the right-hand side and the sheild on the left.

It would probably be quite cumbersome to change the model animations, though, so I\'m thinking that\'s low on the priority list.  I mean, there are still rather large glitches in scenery (transparency issues with the trees just outside Hydlaa Plaza), and equipment issues (armour and the like).  It\'ll probably be done eventually, but there are more important things to be fixed first.

The animation doesn\'t have anything to do with damage and defense calculations (yet?).  I believe damage dealt is the same whether you equip your weapon to your left or right hand, just as defensive properties are the same with your sheid on your left or right hand.  I haven\'t noticed any difference, but if I\'m wrong, please correct me.

~Indi

[Externals]

Well, I believe you hit with your right/left hands. So one hit you might be doing 10+ dmg, the other like 2 dmg (since its a shield). As for the bugs, iv made a thread about every single bug there is to be corrected.

[MaidenIndigo]

Originally posted by Externals
 As for the bugs, iv made a thread about every single bug there is to be corrected.

I wouldn\'t go that far...did you even visit the bugtracker that Acraig linked in the post to which you are referring?  There is even a reported bug that sounds like the one being described in this thread.

And just try equipping a sword in your right hand (or paw), and a shield in the other.  Now try the opposite.  There is no difference for me (female Enkidukai with base stats).  I think I recall reading about a proposal to make Right/Left hand-sensitive equipment. You know, if your character is right-handed you would do more damage when you equip a sword in that hand.
So far I don\'t think such a thing has been implemented (my search was far from exhaustive, though).

~Indi

[Vandel]

The major flaws I was mentioning which seems to be lost... is the ability to kill huge monsters, attack, and otherwise without having to worry about being attacked back.

I thought this would have been extremely prevelent as it\'s easy to build up characters quickly.

Later if monsters will be dropping items, and being able to attack say a Tefusang, Trepor, or otherwise with a really low character and have success with no worries of being attacked back, then you\'re going to find characters leveling quickly.

The biggest problem with super stating isn\'t the progressions points, in two days killing gobbles and rogues in the sewers I was able to accumulate 86-102 (some got used for training) progression points, or whatever.  Sure...

Progression points are useless without money.  However, if you can attack larger creatures which drop items of value, and give you gross amounts of experience, you\'re going to have people jumping levels and stats very quickly, legally, which will be almost impossible to check.  You can start out with rats, progress to gobbles, then to rogues, trepors, and even with a weak character you can engage ubernauts in the ruins by getting them stuck on walls and fighting them in the way described in the beginning of the thread.

Even if you were tracking kills, to experience, progression points, or whatever, everything would checkout, even human intervention looking over this would technically not be able to see a problem, as the character in all fairness exploited a combat problem, which should register progression points, kills, a loot if there was an item to loot, and everything checks out.

Money is tight, why waste it on potions of healing and otherwise...

I\'ve seen posts where people are waiting to fight ubernauts until they can grab glyphs of fire and much much higher skills.  Why? Fight them now... when you can fight and not get hit.

[DivineLight]

Yes vandel this is a problem. PS has some major balance issues, like much progressoin points, less money to train etc. They\'ll be fixed after the great blade WIPE, i think.

[Externals]

It doesnt have anything to do with balance.. have you not read his post? Its a glitch that lets you attack and not be attacked back. Thats a serious mistake that can be taken advantage of.

[Vandel]

Exactly, this has nothing to do with balance, but an exploit in the combat system.

[DivineLight]

Sure it\'s the exploit but look on the other hand.

don\'t we have huge progression points but very less money to train. So isn\'t it a balance issus.
If NPCs give more loot and less exp, then we can use our progression poitns as we accumulate.

[Vandel]

If it\'s not corrected and at a later time when creatures, or during the period occuring after the wipe and things are added, start dropping things of value, it\'s going to make a mess.  People can identify creatures known to drop quality, or high value items, and wait for them to spawn the same way lower level characters do for rats.

this totally defeats the need to fight in groups.

[Mercat]

What I would like to see would be this.  More creatures... rats are fine, but 6 coin a pop is ok, but not exactly something in where you can get wealthy off of.  The next level is the Fefu... which is 16...

You got mining which will give you anything from 2 to 12 per piece...

If they are going to fix the bug they have to fix the loot problem.  For I can imagine a great exodus the minute this bug is fixed.

I can kill clackers, and low level rouges... but I get nothing out of them. I can kill the low level tefs as well and get 16 for each tooth... but what I\'d like to see would be something like this.

Rats = 6 per fur (as is now)
Clackers  = 10 per shell piece
Tefs = 10 for each tooth (weak ones first in the coliseum) , 12 for medium, 16 for the hard, and go 4 up on each step...

The other creatures I don\'t know but more creatures should have an item they drop that should be worth an amount per their level of difficulty.  Such as the rouges and others... in where starting rouges go for 10 a pop, and the hard ones go for 30.

Ubers would go for 30, starting, etc...

If you are going to fix a bug you need to allow people to buy things easier then... for there are rats, but it takes forever to get enough rats to buy anything worth buying.  

Not to mention there aren\'t enough rats to keep everyone happy either.

[darkerdreams]

Mercat; I think you\'re getting issues confused.  you *always* need to fix bugs.  Playability issues will always suffer when bugs go unfixed and are they tend to be harder to fix than things like adding loot (done some programming elsewhere, so I\'m making assumptions here).  attempts to improve the loot/progression is underway elsewhere (trust me; I\'m worried about the magic system cost/reward ratio), but not pertinent to the discussion of whether or not there is a bug, and bugs always need fixed simply because they aren\'t supposed to be there.
If it weren\'t a bug, and were an intentional balance system your discussion of loot might be in order- but I don\'t think anyone will ever intentionally institue a situation (outside of ability/spell/etc use) where monsters can get attacked without retribution.

[Mercat]

Originally posted by darkerdreams
Mercat; I think you\'re getting issues confused.  you *always* need to fix bugs.  Playability issues will always suffer when bugs go unfixed and are they tend to be harder to fix than things like adding loot (done some programming elsewhere, so I\'m making assumptions here).  attempts to improve the loot/progression is underway elsewhere (trust me; I\'m worried about the magic system cost/reward ratio), but not pertinent to the discussion of whether or not there is a bug, and bugs always need fixed simply because they aren\'t supposed to be there.
If it weren\'t a bug, and were an intentional balance system your discussion of loot might be in order- but I don\'t think anyone will ever intentionally institue a situation (outside of ability/spell/etc use) where monsters can get attacked without retribution.

I\'m not saying don\'t fix bugs (trust me I\'m working on my own MMORPG) I know bugs are to be a pain, but the issue is this... if you fix bugs, you need to balance out what that bug fixes if it\'s in a situation such as this.

With the limited income the game produces such as it is, they either need to tweak the kill/reward ratio, or work on a way that will allow progression in certain levels so you won\'t need money to spend on purchasing such upgrades...

Such as if you have 10% of your body covered in light armor on, for every 10 hits you go up 2% in that skill.  If you are wearing 50% you get 4% every 7  hits.  If you are wearing full protection you get 6% every 5 hits. (each hit has to cause damage)

In the long run it will even itself out, for the more you fight the weaker creatures the harder it will be for them to hit you, so by that time you will be forced to go higher up in the creature ranking so you would be able to raise your skills.

In that same time as you are fighting your endurance will go up, your agility, strength, etc... all slowly, but they will go higher.

You will have the chance to use your PP to go higher faster than normal because of training in it, but you will still be able to rank faster in real combat experience.

So you will always be progressing, only if do they give you more of a chance to get more money out of each creature should that not happen... but I think if they want to make it more realistic it should.