Author Topic: Carkarass  (Read 6127 times)

Rilar

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 117
  • GRRRRR
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2005, 11:51:07 am »
Quote
I don\'t think experience loss is a good idea, imagine a griefer who takes a target and kills him/her repetitively to get his/her stats down as much as possible. It would be really annoying to have a char with 1str...
\"Experience\" is for progression points, not stats. I don`t like loosing stats neither.
Quote
I think the best solution is to make thee DR a maze with a \"dark town\" that can only bee reached through thorough exploration.
Cool!  :D
Quote
I don\'t think it should take 15 mins to get out though. 15 mins is a LONG time wasted. 5-7 mins sounds ok to me
That is why I suggested the thingy with the individual chamber and the choice to skip the fight with the carkarass. If you want to be back as quick as possible, pay for it! You pay, you get to the portal which leads back to action. If you dont want to pay, you have to fight...
Before I suggested to random teleport the looser out of the DR far away from the point he died. That could be modified: In both cases, victory and defeat you are teleported into the DR. But: If you win, you will be teleported near the portal which leads back to action (perhaps the same spot where you get teleported when you skip the fight), if you loose you will be teleported far away. With a big DR with a whole city in it that would the best solution, I think :)
And with a carkarass which strength  adapts to the opponent, that would be a fair fight.

amogorkon
What is a king without folk? A man with a crown on the head. - Rilar

Rieto Peyuzar

  • Wayfarer
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2005, 04:02:28 am »
Quote
Originally posted by amogorkon
\"Experience\" is for progression points, not stats. I don`t like loosing stats neither.


Aren\'t PP gonna be shot anyway? levels doesn\'t sound any better than stats, right now the massive gap is between money and PP, how ironic would it be for it to become PP to money?

Quote
That is why I suggested the thingy with the individual chamber and the choice to skip the fight with the carkarass. If you want to be back as quick as possible, pay for it! You pay, you get to the portal which leads back to action. If you dont want to pay, you have to fight...


But then you have ?ber-high levels who die on purpose to fight a monster that is challengeing to them and gives them a decent amout of experience when all the hordes of everywhere are bugwash to them.

Quote
Before I suggested to random teleport the looser out of the DR far away from the point he died. That could be modified: In both cases, victory and defeat you are teleported into the DR. But: If you win, you will be teleported near the portal which leads back to action (perhaps the same spot where you get teleported when you skip the fight), if you loose you will be teleported far away. With a big DR with a whole city in it that would the best solution, I think :)


The best solution according to me is item loss. your body should be lootable by everyone (promoting party hunts with people you trust, like your guild) that way a high level with massive skills won\'t be able to use the carkarass as a training guy whenever he wants and it satisfies the need for some penalty for death.

Rilar

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 117
  • GRRRRR
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2005, 06:08:38 pm »
Quote
how ironic would it be for it to become PP to money?
Why ironic? PPs would just get some purpose for its existence.
Quote
decent amout of experience when all the hordes of everywhere are bugwash to them
Experience? XP are PP or am I wrong? Apart from beeing mad to get a million pp and nothing to use it for, I would even propose that the carkass dont give any loot or xp at all!
Quote
=> [The DR] shouldn\'t be nice.

Quote
[...] training guy whenever he wants
With my proposal anyone could fight at any time the carkarass if he wishes...
Quote
your body should be lootable by everyone
[irony] Nice... \"Hi buddy! How many newbies have you killed today?\" \"Oh, about 20 already... since you can loot them, griefing is more fun than ever!\" [/irony]

amogorkon

EDIT: Don`t take me wrong: the carkarass should not be there for amusement! It should take some minutes to get rid of it... loosing TIME is the punishment.
And if you dont pay attention, you have to walk a _long_ way back to action.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2005, 06:14:47 pm by Rilar »
What is a king without folk? A man with a crown on the head. - Rilar

Rilar

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 117
  • GRRRRR
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2005, 06:24:31 pm »
Quote
The best solution according to me is item loss. your body should be lootable by everyone

And BTW: I proposed in the thread \" Wish list ? PvP,PK and Thieving ? to all those in support of open PKing (my first last and only opinion)\" that when you get killed, you loose a certain amount (percentage) of your money which will lie then outside of your body, free for everyone to get. Diablo 2 implemented this solution and it is a really good compromise between beeing able to loot everything and nothing. And since it is a percentage, everyone is being treated fairly halfway.

amogorkon
« Last Edit: June 30, 2005, 06:28:08 pm by Rilar »
What is a king without folk? A man with a crown on the head. - Rilar

TiagoTiago

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 23
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2005, 02:19:41 am »
hello
I don\'t play ps as often as I would like, but I felt like expressing my opinion on this matter


about death realm exits and exit gates \"camping\"
instead of a fixed location for exiting the  dr, there would be several \"gate keepers\" (mostly monsters, but perhaps some npcs), diferent gate keepers, the harder to beat ones would send you to somewhere better when beaten than the easy ones, and it would work somewhat like this (on my idea of it)
you start fighting a gate keeper, if you beat it from his \"corpse\" would emerge a bright floating something (with as much cool specialfx as possible without being too much) this floating bright thing would try to float at your directio, with lots of inercia (think newtonian physics space flight) you would be able to dodge it if you want to for a little while, but it will start lossing mass and become more precise in its movement and when it hits you you get teleported, if you loose the fight against the gate keeper you would become a \"ghost\" (semi transparent) but would still be able to move, (but not interact with the world in any way, pickinup items, attackting somthing else etc....) and would start to get chased by something similar to the bright floating thing but which would look very menacing, perhaps a black cloud which shrieks, which would behave the same way the bright thing, but would send you back to some random other point on the death realm
if you fall or orthewise get killed on the dr the shrieking cloud will come  too


perhaps a more interesting effect would be  not one normal sized bright thing/shrieking cloud, but a swarm of it, if possible with flock like behavior ( boids etc...) the ones that hit you would  become attached to your boddy where it hitted, after a number of it have attached to you you would bright up/darken (perhaps with texture, or with light) and you would get teleported

the bright things would explode from inside the gatekeeper\'s body in all directions or perhaps in a fountain like manner, the shrieking cloud would come from every direction from shady or dark areas, or just from random far away positions, but they would be able to not overshoot you by spiralling like a water in a drain when the reach a radius from the player, when inside tthe radius they won\'t be able to leave it,  they wll hit the edge and will start to loose momentum as it goes around the \"sphere\", as they loosse enough momentum or mass they will aim closer and closer to the player.


perhaps to avoid getting some of them stuck and having the player locked on that state there would be a constant rate of them comming (out of the gatekeeper or from the dark places) and in the code there would be a check to see it one was on the same place or area for too long and if so it would be  killed for recycling of memory
« Last Edit: July 03, 2005, 02:22:09 am by TiagoTiago »
Quote
Originally said by Someone I can\'t remeber the name
\"I disagree with everything you say, but will defend to death your right to say it\"

frostwolf10

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2005, 04:58:52 am »
Maybe the DR could be like another world. Maybe an evil twin of Yliakum (imagine Harnquist swindling you out of your money...) Maybe we could take ressurection take like 20 seconds to cast so the ressurecter could be killed within that time.

Maybe, assuming Carkarass is a guard, we could do an errand for him and then he would let us into the portal.
Also, the god council could give you a difficult task that you could do to be instantly next to the portal and not have to do Carkarass\' task every time you do for a certain amount of times. Newbies should be protected from griefers in my opinion. Just not sure how to do it.
Characters: Wolf Rocner


Rilar

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 117
  • GRRRRR
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2005, 12:37:29 am »
Quote
perhaps to avoid getting some of them stuck and having the player locked on that state there would be a constant rate of them comming (out of the gatekeeper or from the dark places) and in the code there would be a check to see it one was on the same place or area for too long and if so it would be killed for recycling of memory
Hey thats great! Money-Monsters! I imagine a swarm of bat-like little mobs which hunger for trias. They appear constantly in random locations with a relatively high frequency. Every money-monster has ~30 hitpoints, but is very quick, so it is very hard to kill one. They swarm around you and follow your movements, and with every hit they consume about 10 trias instead of hitpoints. As long as you run with high speed, they wont attack you. But are you moving below a certain limit, they will attack.

The idea about the portal coming out of a creature is certainly a good one... but for the DR I think it is a bit too late. There are portals implemented yet and it would be again hard work to change it :-/
Maybe they will make a special \"boss-monster\" with that effect...

Quote
Maybe the DR could be like another world. Maybe an evil twin of Yliakum (imagine Harnquist swindling you out of your money...)

An evil Harnquist? Maybe that idea is better in the wishthread about the \"dreamworld\"! (dont know the exact url right now) I like this idea however, its like the shadow-world in Zelda :)

Quote
Newbies should be protected from griefers in my opinion.
Yep, I think we have the protection thanks to TiagoTiago :) Running around to protect themselves from beeing hit by the money-monsters they wont think about griefing ;)
In the city, special fields could protect certain buildings from those monsters.

Quote
Maybe we could take ressurection take like 20 seconds to cast so the ressurecter could be killed within that time.
Yep, and maybe there could be a sort of inverted necromancing-spell to get directly to the DR-city, without the obstacles.

amogorkon
What is a king without folk? A man with a crown on the head. - Rilar

DaveG

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2058
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2005, 02:58:54 am »
Quote
Originally posted by amogorkon
I imagine a swarm of bat-like little mobs which hunger for trias. They appear constantly in random locations with a relatively high frequency. Every money-monster has ~30 hitpoints, but is very quick, so it is very hard to kill one. They swarm around you and follow your movements, and with every hit they consume about 10 trias instead of hitpoints. As long as you run with high speed, they wont attack you. But are you moving below a certain limit, they will attack.

I don\'t think there should be a penalty to loitering in the DR.  If Dark Way trainers and the like are put there, that would be way too annoying.  The carkarass riddle/fight, maze = annoyance, & recent stats/skills learned penalties are more than enough.

Quote
Originally posted by amogorkon
Yep, and maybe there could be a sort of inverted necromancing-spell to get directly to the DR-city, without the obstacles.

Good idea.  If there will be legitimate reasons to go to the DR, there needs to be a way to get there without the penalty.

::  PlaneShift Team Programmer  ::

Rilar

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 117
  • GRRRRR
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2005, 04:44:11 pm »
Quote
recent stats/skills learned penalties
:-/ Some time before I proposed a loss of progression-points instead of skills, and I still think thats a better idea.
Maybe the swarm-idea as it is now is a bit too harsh. Perhaps the swarm could follow in a greater distance and attack only few times. So the feeling of beeing hunted is there, but not too annoying.

amogorkon
What is a king without folk? A man with a crown on the head. - Rilar

DaveG

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2058
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2005, 04:33:40 am »
Quote
Originally posted by amogorkon
Some time before I proposed a loss of progression-points instead of skills, and I still think thats a better idea.

The general consensus amongst people I\'ve talked to is that PP need to be done away with at some point, training at NPCs will only be done when you\'re learning a new skill (aka an apprenticeship), and skills should progress naturally with use.  What I\'m saying here, is that you should lose a bit of the advancements that you made just prior to dying.  In other words, you shouldn\'t be rewarded for training that results in your death.   :P

On the subject of money, thieves are a good idea at some point, but a swarm of thief bats isn\'t that appealing.  Money needs to be downplayed... allot.  We don\'t want money to be as crucial as it is now, so we shouldn\'t have to worry about losing it this much.

::  PlaneShift Team Programmer  ::

Ecolem

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 379
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2005, 05:44:02 am »
Quote
Originally posted by leuxast
The death realm will be huge and that will be punishment enough.
Supposedly, eventually you will go before a \"council\" of gods and you can either give them a magical item or be transported to the death realm (that takes about 15 mins to get out of)


This is the fact...sorry i missed like the rest of the thread...to long :O

But yeh Leuxast is right, it will be expanded and I\'m sure thats better then loseing all your items (witch was taken from WoW...dont try and copy other games) on the spot were you died, trust me it wont be the old boring DR you know now. As  I\'m sure its been said before the DR will be another world all togther so in one sence it will be good for some people(unique items will be sold there ect.)

Ralas

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 255
  • Explorers Guild
    • View Profile
    • Reincrownation :D
(No subject)
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2005, 09:19:03 am »
WoW is actually not the first game to employ that tactic.

Maybe the DR should be so amazingly hard to get out of, that most people just wouldn\'t bother.  This way you could come back from the dead, but it would not be commonplace.  If this were implemented, though, you\'d have to just get knocked out most of the time instead of dying.  You\'d only die when you\'re killed by something that eats you, which should also not be common.  To sum up:  getting knocked unconcious should be commonplace, but death should not, and neither should be coming back from the dead.  Death should be avoidable in almost every situation.  The problem with the DR as it is, or as something that you can just walk out of, even if it takes 15 minutes of work, is that it is difficult to RP around.
Yliakum, a really big crystal. These are the voyages of the Explorers Guild.  Its ongoing mission: to explore strange new maps, to seek out new life and new NPCs.  To boldly glitch where no one has glitched before.

www.reincrownation.com :D

Rilar

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 117
  • GRRRRR
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2005, 02:46:29 pm »
@ DaveG
Quote
What I\'m saying here, is that you should lose a bit of the advancements that you made just prior to dying. In other words, you shouldn\'t be rewarded for training that results in your death.
Good point. However, how would you explain the loss of exactly those skillpoints which were gained shortly before dead, and not random ones?

@ Ralas
Quote
The problem with the DR as it is, or as something that you can just walk out of, even if it takes 15 minutes of work, is that it is difficult to RP around.
Not if you assume a god of death which takes you into his realm (literally, not just the spirit). To get out, you could assume that the other gods of the world are powerful enough to penetrate the DR to give the dead the possibility to come back. Its a bit like the question of theodicy in RL ;)

bye,
amogorkon
What is a king without folk? A man with a crown on the head. - Rilar

DaveG

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2058
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2005, 04:07:53 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by amogorkon
@ DaveG
Quote
What I\'m saying here, is that you should lose a bit of the advancements that you made just prior to dying. In other words, you shouldn\'t be rewarded for training that results in your death.

Good point. However, how would you explain the loss of exactly those skillpoints which were gained shortly before dead, and not random ones?

How do you explain the ease of resurection?...  :P

Let\'s put it this way, dying hurts... allot... so you should be \"injured\" in what you were using just prior to dying.  This wouldn\'t be that hard to implement.  The server would just have to look at a log of recent advancements, which it would already need to have to look out for bugs and exploits.

::  PlaneShift Team Programmer  ::

Rilar

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 117
  • GRRRRR
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2005, 05:13:40 pm »
Quote
The server would just have to look at a log of recent advancements,
I dont think there is such a log...
Quote
Let\'s put it this way, dying hurts... allot... so you should be \"injured\" in what you were using just prior to dying.
Then why not loosing hitpoints? In Baldurs Gate there is a similar system. The moment the char is ressurrected, his constitution determines how much hitpoints he keep. If he has a constitution over 18, he keep 100%. The lower the constitution is, the more he loose. If he has 3 constitution, he looses about 50%.
In PS it would be even easier to implement. But not to prefer fighters, I suggest to base the calculation on endurance and will.
With 100+ endurance you keep 100% hitpoints. Same for will. Each point less (starting from 100 endurance and will) gives you a 0,25% penalty.
Maybe the body-development could be taken into account, too...
Perhaps the necros in the DR could make some sort of ritual to restore the hitpoints (but only within a day or so, after that the hitpoints are fixed) or even a \"blood ritual\", in which you can pay mana-points to higher constantly your hitpoints or the other way round, a ritual in which you pay hitpoints to gain manapoints.
What is a king without folk? A man with a crown on the head. - Rilar