OOC chat

[Moogie]

Well, I just don\'t see the point of an OOC channel if its range is only something like 5 meters, is all. People who want OOC talk want it primarily for reasons which require a more global or area-wide communication, for example in finding people to group with.

[Leeloo]

Leeloo, those of you who never roleplay do not belong in Planeshift. I will be blunt. Either learn to adapt, or find another game

Well sorry that I happen to like the same game as you, without playing 100% the way you prefer.

There aren\'t that many other free MMOPG-games (R deliberately left out), I have checked happypenguin several times before I found Planeshift, which is amazing compared to the other game I used to play.

[Kunisch]

Well, if this is implemented, and there is a need of \"forcing\" OOC\'ers to roleplay a bit more, then you could do it like this:

a: variabel that counts lines of OOC Chat
b: Variabel that counts RP chat lines.

Then simply make the client do the following:

a/b=c

Then one would only be able to write in OOC chat if c is below a certain value.


NOTE. This is not a representation af how i think this problem shuld be solved (personally i really don\'t know), but more like an idea for dooing \"some\" OOC control


/Kunisch

[Nilrem]

Honestly, an algorythm based on counting lines won\'t ever work. That would only enforce spamming lines.
\"I don\'t have enough lines of roleplay? Don\'t worry:
a
b
c
d
e
f
g
Ok i can now go back to the OOC tab\"

Besides, adding more tabs doesn\'t mean that things get more organized. We\'ve enough tabs right now, and some of them aren\'t used at all, and others perhaps need some name changing...
/me thinks of Auction channel where lots of people think they can post their \"action\" because they don\'t know about the /me command.

[MaidenIndigo]

Seriously ? an OOC-only chat would be a bad idea.  Do you really need to have entire conversations about OOC subjects that desperately?  Then keep AIM, MSN, or Trillian open while you play PlaneShift.  Being OOC 100% of the time isn\'t playing kinda against the way others like to play.  It\'s completely against why PS\'s fanbase enjoy the game so much.

I mean, I will frequently be out of character because I enjoy helping new players a lot, but I will use parenthesis or /tells to answer their questions. (and then promptly tell them about the advisor system )

And really.  Are two little parenthesis symbols that complicated and time-consuming to append to your chat text?  That\'s like saying you don\'t care if typing \"u\" makes you look stupid because typing \"you\" takes too long.  I mean, if you\'re playing a role-playing game, you might want to actually try to conform to the standards of RPing next time.

I must say, I agree with Karyuu.  Before this game, I never role-played before.  At all.  But slowly I am now able to stay in-character for a longer period than when I first started playing.  I\'m working on my character\'s background and try rather hard to stick with it while I play.  If you haven\'t even tried working on your role-playing abilities whilst playing PS, I really must wonder why you are here. o.0

~Indi

[Platyna]

Problem is that I rarely see people really Role Playing in Planeshift, I see some
attempts to do so but they are usually disrupted by OOC talk non stop,
everywhere. So, since we can\'t ban for OOC, if we will not find any method to
take OOC chat fom /say I am afraid Role Playing will die in Planeshift. ;(
I still like the idea of OOC chat as a good compromise between OOC and IC
people and your arguments are not convincing me to be honest.


Regards.

[Leeloo]

Originally posted by MaidenIndigo
And really.  Are two little parenthesis symbols that complicated and time-consuming to append to your chat text?

The idea was to help those who like to role play. Those who don\'t like to role play don\'t need those parantheses, it\'s the people who only want RP that needs/wants them, but they are not the ones who type them, they want to dictate that other people do so.

What I suggested was meant to help these people by allowing them to not see OOC chat at all. Not by ignoring everything in parantheses, but by their screen not showing it. Then they wouldn\'t need to get mad everytime someone mentions something that didn\'t exist in the dark ages.

Someone who doesn\'t like role playing wouldn\'t generally care about this, he or she will just keep on chatting, while you get mad. But someone who wants to see only role play should be happy to get a chance to completely switch off OOC chat.

Oh, and for your question (literally): I am a programmer, and the whole purpose of being one is to take repetitive things that can be done by a computer and make the computer do it. So, yes, it is too time-consuming, even if it\'s two characters (which it\'s not, it\'s two characters per line/sentence, which happens to be quite a bit more). Everything I do on the computer belongs in one of two categories - fun or making repetitive things automatic. Typing parantheses don\'t go under fun (or Word would be considered a game), so it goes under things that should be made automatic.

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Leeloo
Well sorry that I happen to like the same game as you, without playing 100% the way you prefer.

That should have been \"Well sorry that I happen to like to abuse your game, by not playing it the way it is meant to be played.\", because frankly, that is what you are saying.

Originally posted by Leeloo
There aren\'t that many other free MMOPG-games (R deliberately left out), I have checked happypenguin several times before I found Planeshift, which is amazing compared to the other game I used to play.

The fact that you left out the \"R\" proves that you are not PS\'s target audience. Therefore, you don\'t belong here. Either play by the rules, or not play at all. Quality of the game is no justification. I wonder how long you would be accepted on any golf course when you are just having a BBQ there \"because the landscape is so pristine\". Furthermore, by being a parasite to PS, you are reducing the quality of the game for everyone, because RP is a big factor in the quality of an RPG.

Originally posted by Platyna
Problem is that I rarely see people really Role Playing in Planeshift, I see some
attempts to do so but they are usually disrupted by OOC talk non stop,
everywhere. So, since we can\'t ban for OOC, if we will not find any method to
take OOC chat fom /say I am afraid Role Playing will die in Planeshift. ;(
I still like the idea of OOC chat as a good compromise between OOC and IC
people and your arguments are not convincing me to be honest.

There is a lot of RP going on, just not in the places that are constantly swamped by OOC gibberish. The plaza is the worst place for RP, obviously. You don\'t see RP, you do it.

I was once advocating an OOC chat, but I have come to the conclusion that any catering to OOC will indeed be seen as invitation. Yes, OOC might vanish from the chat, but there will be lots and lots of people just logging in to chat OOC-ly, with their chars just standing around all day in the same place, clogging people\'s rendering engines and adding to lag. Not to mention that people standing around without ever moving is disrupting to RP as well, especially in the great quantities I expect.

Originally posted by Leeloo
The idea was to help those who like to role play. Those who don\'t like to role play don\'t need those parantheses, it\'s the people who only want RP that needs/wants them, but they are not the ones who type them, they want to dictate that other people do so.

Precisely. OOC has no place in PS, and the only acceptable means of having it ingame is by designating it as such. Also, by making it inconvenient the message is clear: OOC is, at best, endured, but certainly not embraced.

Originally posted by Leeloo
What I suggested was meant to help these people by allowing them to not see OOC chat at all. Not by ignoring everything in parantheses, but by their screen not showing it. Then they wouldn\'t need to get mad everytime someone mentions something that didn\'t exist in the dark ages.

You are phrasing it a little like you are looking down on RPers. \"These people\" are the only ones that are wanted in PS, and the only ones who should be accepted in PS.

Originally posted by Leeloo
Someone who doesn\'t like role playing wouldn\'t generally care about this, he or she will just keep on chatting, while you get mad. But someone who wants to see only role play should be happy to get a chance to completely switch off OOC chat.

May I be so bold as to suggest kicking people who don\'t care about RP?

Originally posted by Leeloo
Oh, and for your question (literally): I am a programmer, and the whole purpose of being one is to take repetitive things that can be done by a computer and make the computer do it. So, yes, it is too time-consuming, even if it\'s two characters (which it\'s not, it\'s two characters per line/sentence, which happens to be quite a bit more). Everything I do on the computer belongs in one of two categories - fun or making repetitive things automatic. Typing parantheses don\'t go under fun (or Word would be considered a game), so it goes under things that should be made automatic.

Precisely why again should we make something that is not wanted in PS fun or even more convenient? The tedium of parenthesis sends the clear message \"What you are doing is not liked well\". Any catering to the OOCer will dilute or even turn this message into the opposite.

[Leeloo]

I am absolutely not phrasing it as if I look down on RP\'ers, if it sounds that way, blame the small nuances of language that may be lost by someone not speaking her native language.

I am sure that if the only difference between golf and barbecue was the words one used, that golfers wouldn\'t mind someone playing a couple of rounds of barbecue. But apart from that, you just moved RP\'ers down a couple of points in my eyes - around here, golf has the status of being played by people who like to think \"Look at me, I\'m special, you are not\", while they go pay several thousand just to get permission to PAY for playing.

Did you consider the possibility of actually role playing in The Plaza, if you could just turn off OOC chat? Then new players (like myself) would actually have a chance of seeing how people role play, and learning, instead of just getting threatened with a kick. So far, the only roleplay I have seen here is \"Draklar raises an eyebrow\", some people ordering in the tavern, and the bartender replying. Well, if that\'s the level (and it does look that way) of roleplay wanted, I can do that while explaining how to write a quick-sort in Prolog (ok, forget about the Prolog part, it\'s been too long since I touched that language). I have this strange feeling that people want it to be much more than that, but as long as role players feel they need to stay away from non-RP\'ers, we never get a chance to learn.

[Cha0s]

Non-RPers can learn pretty quickly what it means to roleplay if they\'re interested. The concept is not very difficult: act like you really are your character.

The problem is that most people who join Planeshift don\'t care about RP, don\'t want to learn to RP, and don\'t care if RPers are unhappy. If their mentality changes, they can learn to RP pretty easily.

I\'ll reiterate what I said before: OOC chat really doesn\'t belong except as a utility to encourage roleplay and community (this includes new player intros, discussions with GMs, etc.). All other OOC discussions don\'t belong in PS.

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Leeloo
I am absolutely not phrasing it as if I look down on RP\'ers, if it sounds that way, blame the small nuances of language that may be lost by someone not speaking her native language.

In this case, I apologise.

The difference betweenOOC and IC is not just the words, but also the content.

As for the golf part: it was an example. I have seen golf courses with very very small admission fees, like 3$, including equipment, and 1$ per golf ball. You don\'t have to have one of these high-priced golf clubs to want the golf course for playing golf. I agree that these clubs are more about prestige than enjoyment of a game, and didn\'t mean to apply that to RPers.

As for you being a new player, and for you being interested in learning what RP is supposed to be: you came accross as someone who doesn\'t care about RP and just wanted a graphical chatroom or, at best, chat with people you know:

Originally posted by Leeloo
Other people just like to chat, and don\'t want to roleplay.
(...)
but those of us who never role play
(...)
Well sorry that I happen to like the same game as you, without playing 100% the way you prefer.

gave that impression to me.

As for RPing in the plaza: as I said, I, too, have been advocating an OOC chat for that very reason, but have arrived at the conclusion I posted in my previous post.

I agree that RP in plaza and tavern usually is not very deep. It cannot, AMOF, because for RP to become meaningful and interesting, the chars need
1) a well-defined personality
2) a well-thought out and believable history / background story
3) a reason to interact with each other

Even with both conditions 1 and 2 met, condition 3 is a high hurdle. In conventional PnP RPGs, it is eased by the fact that the chars have some need to interact with each other, and something to work on together, usually a quest. In a MMORPG like PS, this easement is not there, because there is no overall plot that gently forces chars to interact. (The overall plot exists, but doesn\'t rely on the chars.)
Thus, the reason must be found by the RPers themselves. I can say that chance was what made my char come into contact with other chars. Things also can start off with doing similar things, like mining or exploring. RP very seldomly stems from killing. I have once met a RPer killing in the arena, but our chars did not have any real reason to get to know each other, so we basically walked our ways pretty quickly. Knowing the player OOC-ly doesn\'t help much with that.

So if you wish to have the chance of observing some real RP, you must avoid
1) the newbie areas
2) places with more than a few chars in them: RP seldomly involves >4 chars
3) as paradox as it might be: you should state OOC-ly that you are trying to observe the RP going on, because otherwise you will be regarded as being IC-ly snooping in matters you aren\'t supposed to snoop in and avoided.
4) RP doesn\'t always take off. It requires the players to be not only in the mood for RP, but also in the mood to RP the given situation. It takes all RPers to notice if it works or not and if not, seemlessly finish the current situation and move on to another RP opportunity. Some handle this by using alternate characters.

I have been part of RP sessions that went on for several RL hours straight, and some even continued on several RL days.

If you are really interested in RPing, you definitely should read X\'s guide to Role-Playing.

@ Cha0s: precisely.

[Karyuu]

I think Seytra hit all the points I would\'ve wanted to make, so there\'s less frustration for me

Leeloo, welcome to Planeshift, the MMORPG where roleplay comes first and everything else will hopefully in time fly out the door. As Cha0s stated previously, \"I\'d rather have smaller quantities of obtrusive OOC chat than larger quantities of unobtrusive OOC chat,\" and I agree wholeheartedly. It is not hard to learn to roleplay, but it requires a bit of work and effort that you should be willing to put in. If you have no such desire (as your previous posts have led me to believe), then this is not the game for you, no matter how much you may like the pretty scenery or nice OOC people. I hope you\'ll give it a try at least once, in any case

[Leeloo]

I would like to learn to roleplay, but I\'m not sure that I will be able to. My brain is simply too logical (think Spock or seven of nine here (good thing IC is not required for the forum )). Yes, the concept is simple, it just feels weird.

At the moment I have no intention to roleplay, but as I said, I would like to learn. But at the same time, I assume that people do meet new friends here, even if they are role playing, and then they would like to chat, and not everyone has MSN... But maybe group chat will do, I didn\'t think of that - I don\'t remember who suggested it, but thanks anyway. It could be used in the same way as my original suggestion (oh no, don\'t say that, now the RP nazis are going to demand that group chat be removed, along with /tell).

[Ralas]

Originally posted by Leeloo
It could be used in the same way as my original suggestion (oh no, don\'t say that, now the RP nazis are going to demand that group chat be removed, along with /tell).

Don\'t forget guild chat!

Seriously, though, RP here can be difficult.  I have years of experience with PnP RPG\'s, where there is someone in charge, who has written a set of possible storylines that the players play out.  The GM knows where all possible paths lead, but the players do not.

In PS, it\'s harder, beause there is no GM, not in that sense of the word.  I am still learning.  All I can do is play my character to the best of my abilities, and try do develope him somewhat.  Hopefully, with time and practice, I will be better at RP in PS.

Sorry if I\'m rambling here I\'m tired.

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Leeloo
But maybe group chat will do, I didn\'t think of that - I don\'t remember who suggested it, but thanks anyway. It could be used in the same way as my original suggestion (oh no, don\'t say that, now the RP nazis are going to demand that group chat be removed, along with /tell).

You\'re welcome ;) /tell and /group are perfectly fine for OOC chat. Even /guild is. /tell is an OOC command for the most part anyway. The key is as long as you don\'t stand in the plaza (or anywhere else, for that matter) and talk publicly about RL, you\'re fine. As for roleplay, I\'ll have to try to drag you into an RP session sometime, definitely :P

Seytra already posted this link, and I second the recommendation that you should give it a thorough read, if you\'re truly interested in learning to roleplay. It has great useful suggestions, tips, and guidelines. Have fun! :)