Wings for Diaboli and other suggestions for them

[Kias]

I personally thought Klyros wouldn\'t fly due to the desciption about them in the player guide which states that the wings don\'t seem to be functional. Sure, Klyro\'s would be able to glide short distances, but flying from a stand still position or flapping the wings in mid air shouldn\'t be possible.

[Bnm85]

Hopefully, it\'s not or it will be a huge advantage. However, with all the talk of them gliding instead of flying, this is a quote from their description:

\"implemented in future releases: Nightvision. Fly for short time. Breath underwater. Due to they nature they can\'t wear any kind of Heavy Armor.\"

Unless that\'s what gliding means in their view.

[Kias]

I take that as a glide...personally, with the Klyros being as big as they are and able to handle stuff like swords, I doubt that their bone structure is light enough to be carried by their wings at their current size.

But hey, we live under a crystal in a huge stalactite. Anythings possible

[Talamir]

Originally posted by Bnm85 Hopefully, it\'s not or it will be a huge advantage. However, with all the talk of them gliding instead of flying, this is a quote from their description: \"implemented in future releases: Nightvision. Fly for short time. Breath underwater. Due to they nature they can\'t wear any kind of Heavy Armor.\" Unless that\'s what gliding means in their view.

Meh. might mean anything. but as you said, you could buy yourself a pterosaur. And that qoute pointed something else out. They cant wear heavy armor. So that might have locked your decision, if you were planning on wearing the stuff.

EDIT: *wipes a tear* I love your sig Karyuu. Made me laugh this whole thread.

[Lordbug]

You want to fly with other char than the Klyros right?
There\'s a \"Fly\" Glyph if you check your art folder Maybe it makes you grow wings and fly!
I still want my feline abilities!!!


Oh and... you never know a new race may come up from a portal!!!

[Bnm85]

Originally posted by Talamir
And that qoute pointed something else out. They cant wear heavy armor. So that might have locked your decision, if you were planning on wearing the stuff.

Well, I\'m not quite sure yet whether that would be a huge disadvantage or not. From playing other MMORPGs, it\'s not always a big minus when you have something else to compensate with (ie spells). So, who knows...

[Bnm85]

Originally posted by Lordbug
You want to fly with other char than the Klyros right?
There\'s a \"Fly\" Glyph if you check your art folder Maybe it makes you grow wings and fly!
I still want my feline abilities!!!


Oh and... you never know a new race may come up from a portal!!!

Hehe, well, whether it\'s fly or glide, depending on what Klyros will turn out like. And where did you get the idea about a new race from a portal?

[Talamir]

New race from a portal. PS history. All races except the kran and lemur came through a portal. Krans and lemurs were made by laanx and talad.

[Seytra]

Well, 1st, the Diaboli are maybe a bit like demons, but certainly not intended to be an exact copy.

2nd,

From Diaboli description
Starting stats: STR 40, END 40, AGI 58, INT 48, WIL 68, CHA 96

Nightvision. Bonus saving throw vs. elemental spells. Suffer double damage from blessed weapons and blessed magical items.

From Klyros description
Starting stats: STR 55, END 55, AGI 55, INT 55, WIL 65, CHA 65

Nightvision. Fly for short time. Breath underwater. Due to they nature they can\'t wear any kind of Heavy Armor.

As we can see, the stats add up to the exact same figure, which is 350 for all races. Don\'t miss / underestimate the high CHA. This will surely have a big effect on NPCs, as it has in other PC-RPGs.

As you can see, you get the double damage for diaboil but compensation in the extra saving throw vs. elelental spells which will be the most common types, like freeze and flame burst. I\'m not sure how summon missile will fit in, though.

Klyros get to \"fly for short time\" and breath underwater in compensation for being unable to wear havy armor. Given that
1) both flight / gliding and underwater breathing (which, BTW, is also possessed by several other races) are of only limited use in most professions, and
2) the presence of both flight and swim glyphs makes this available to everyone

, this isn\'t that much of an advantage. It is quite clear to me that Klyros are comparatively unsuited for some professions, like any sort of close combat. They aren\'t terrbbly good as mages, either. That leaves crafters, merchants, scouts, explorers and maybe rogues.

As for you not liking their reptilian appearance: do you want the Enkis to have human faces, too, because they have this catlike appearance? Seriously, this is one of the things that differentiate the races from each other. They are not humans with fur or humans with wings, they are cats and lizards that walk upright and talk.

I am not going to re-hash the flight discussion again. All I\'m saying is that I think they can fly but, without serious training, only for a short time and glide a bit. Just look at the effect stamina is having on running!
Therefore, it seems to me that a lot of Klyros will not actually use their wings, but instead a fly glyph, because this requires less training for more gain. Especially if they are already using magic, it\'s just another spell which is easier to learn than a whole new skill. Thus, I think flight is over-hyped. It will (and should) take very serious effort to get it to real usefulness, thereby obviously taking away resources for training the more commonly used skills.
Add to that the effect of weight in the inventory, the weight of the light armor that is available, and it looks like a flight glyph is even more effective for almost all purposes that would make flight interesting for the broad population.

@ Bnm85: As for the portal / race thing: did you read the setting?

Edit: Also, in almost all cases, the char will eventually end up wearing heavy armor, even in the more mage-like professions. Thus, this is quite a limitation in the high area of things, whereas a mage will easily use the flight glyph. Obviously a Klyros mage can use armor spells to compensate. As usual, some races are more suited for some things than others. There is no reason to put all advantages into one race, which looks like you are trying to get the Diaboli to be.

[Bnm85]

Originally posted by Talamir
New race from a portal. PS history. All races except the kran and lemur came through a portal. Krans and lemurs were made by laanx and talad.

No, you misunderstand. Yes, the races except Kran and Lemurs came from portals or became cross-breeds. My question was where you got that idea considering that the FAQ states there will be no more additional player races in the game.

[Bnm85]

Originally posted by Seytra
Well, 1st, the Diaboli are maybe a bit like demons, but certainly not intended to be an exact copy.

Well, giving them wings would not make them an exact copy. That\'s what stats are for.

As we can see, the stats add up to the exact same figure, which is 350 for all races. Don\'t miss / underestimate the high CHA. This will surely have a big effect on NPCs, as it has in other PC-RPGs.

Not underestimating CHA at all. Also, I did not mean that the INT stat should be increased, while keeping CHA as high but rather slightly higher by default, taking a bit away from CHA (but not too much).

As you can see, you get the double damage for diaboil but compensation in the extra saving throw vs. elelental spells which will be the most common types, like freeze and flame burst. I\'m not sure how summon missile will fit in, though.

I\'m not so sure it\'s such a compensation. For example, if I\'m fighting a Diaboli in PvP, I simply won\'t set myself up as an elemental spell fighter/mage whatever. I\'ll make sure I get blessed and/or magical items to fight against them. What will a Diaboli do against Klyros with blessed/magical items/weapons/spells etc? Klyros\' light armor may not be such a huge deal if they\'re dealing double-damage on Diaboli. Just IMO.

the presence of both flight and swim glyphs makes this available to everyone

Yes, I\'m hoping that will be a compensation.

They aren\'t terrbbly good as mages, either. That leaves crafters, merchants, scouts, explorers and maybe rogues.

How so? It doesn\'t state that they have any limitations on training every skill to the max. And they\'re good in elemental ways. So, what\'s stopping them from developing everything a mage can have to the max, even if it does take longer than for some other race? I mean, in the end, it\'s archievable.

As for you not liking their reptilian appearance: do you want the Enkis to have human faces, too, because they have this catlike appearance? Seriously, this is one of the things that differentiate the races from each other. They are not humans with fur or humans with wings, they are cats and lizards that walk upright and talk.

Yes, I do. :D But that\'s just personal preference. I\'m all for difference appearances and such but it\'s hard for me to take a walking humanoid animal seriously in games. I\'d prefer variations in body type, facial expressions, age, height, skin color, ears (pointy and such). The whole Enki thing reminds me too much of an adult furry fantasy thing, which I never found particulary appealing. But I know that others like it, and I don\'t want to step on their toes because of it, so I have no problem with them running around. I just wouldn\'t use one for myself.

I am not going to re-hash the flight discussion again. All I\'m saying is that I think they can fly but, without serious training, only for a short time and glide a bit. Just look at the effect stamina is having on running!
Therefore, it seems to me that a lot of Klyros will not actually use their wings, but instead a fly glyph, because this requires less training for more gain. Especially if they are already using magic, it\'s just another spell which is easier to learn than a whole new skill. Thus, I think flight is over-hyped. It will (and should) take very serious effort to get it to real usefulness, thereby obviously taking away resources for training the more commonly used skills.
Add to that the effect of weight in the inventory, the weight of the light armor that is available, and it looks like a flight glyph is even more effective for almost all purposes that would make flight interesting for the broad population.

I feel the same way and hope it\'ll all be balanced in the end.

@ Bnm85: As for the portal / race thing: did you read the setting?

Yes but as I stated in my previous reply, you misunderstand. I meant, why is that idea still alive considering the FAQ\'s statement about no additional player races?

There is no reason to put all advantages into one race, which looks like you are trying to get the Diaboli to be.

Well, your conclusion is wrong. I was not trying to give Diaboli more advantages over other races. I wanted to see more than a single race having wings, especially because it suits Diaboli a lot. If that somehow gives them a huge advantage then that\'s what discussions are for, where a compromise can be found on what else to change to keep them in balance. At the moment though, I see Diaboli as having slightly more disadvantages than others, simply because one can make a special setup in PvP against Diaboli, since they\'re always vulnerable to blessed/magical weapons. Whereas some other races can be more unpredictable and more of a guess on how to set yourself up when fighting them. And before anyone says, \"well, now you want them to not suffer double-damage and still keep all the advantages\", no, it\'s not what I\'m saying at all. I\'m saying that because, obviously, that disadvantage is here to stay, it might be ok to add something a little extra as a counter. Such as devestating unholy weapons/spells, or some sort of blessed damage reducer.

As always, just IMO, so if you disagree, that\'s fine.

[Robinmagus]

Errr..double posting is a bad thing right? You evil evil man

[Bnm85]

Originally posted by Robinmagus
Errr..double posting is a bad thing right? You evil evil man

What do you mean? Those are two seperate replies to different people.

EDIT to the original topic: Ok, I\'ve been doing a lot of reading of the older forums topics and different magic ways, and it seems that INT isn\'t necessarily required for all magic. It seems, for example, Crystal and Dark ways only need CHA, which means INT can be ignored completely if one sticks only to those ways. In that case, maybe current CHA for Diaboli is all right. But we will only know for sure once the magic system if finalized.

[druke]

..none of it is \'reqired\', all the stats help together, some just help more so.

[Bnm85]

Oh, ok, so, how does STR help with Azure, Blue, Red, Brown, Crystal, and Dark ways of magic? Stats like INT, CHA, WIL are \'required\' if you want to be good at certain ways of magic.