Second wipe

[Neryam]

I don\'t really mind these wipes. I\'m fine with them but..

I did just now realize that each wipe does take precious time away from the devs. Also, If there are any high-level skills later (like in magic or smithing) wipes would prevent anyone from getting to that level and testing them.

As stated, this as pre-alpha so if there are bugged characters, exploits, and crazy rich characters, it shouldn\'t matter as long as theres nothing that makes the server crash or something. We can just have one big total wipe right before the full release and everyone will be happy! :]

[Kias]

I think you guys need to understand that having people on an even playing field is needed until there are multiple, non-buggy ways of building a character. At the moment we can kill rats (and more once the loot system is sorted out) and mine... not exactly a big list, is it?

A wipe is good because:

a)It will allow the devs to correct bugs that have appeared. For those who don\'t know, fixing bugs is a major part of moving the development process to a better playing experience for all

b)Allow Mac and Linux users to have the same playing experience as Windows users.

I don\'t see why a second wipe could be bad. It\'s not like there are a lot of things to do with high stats (Most are not implemented). Also, roleplaying is a big big part of PlaneShift...doing another wipe won\'t exactly take away from roleplay, it will encourage it more.

If we can build a community of roleplayers at the start of the game\'s life, that community will grow as the game grows. If Power levelers are allowed to exploit bugs atm it may seem harmless now, but it sends the wrong idea to newbies.

[Neryam]

I agree, but why is a wipe needed for the devs to fix a bug? And the high level things will appear later.

Besides, right now, What exactly can you roleplay? From what I\'ve heard many of the quests are a little whack, sure you can talk, but what else to \'roleplay\' except fight? No new places to explore, no castles to build, no guild houses to buy, no guild wars to participate in, no treasure to discover, no spells to create...

And without the wipe linux and mac users would be on an even field in other areas, why would it ruin bugfixing capabilities to be on an uneven field? This is a pre-alpha, so it shouldn\'t really matter that some people have an \'unfair\' advantage because of fixed bugs. It just means that when expensive things happen like pteuesaur riding implementation, there will be more of those \'exploiters\' to buy em (because they are gonna be expensive) and ride em quickly, and find all the bugs quickly.

Wipes are fine but once you think about it, they are just a little pointless during a pre-alpha. :rolleyes:

[Kias]

I don\'t see them as pointless. Lets say that we don\'t have a wipe at all (All tria, loot, etc. is kept). Some people decide they want an Uber char and level their stats a lot. Fast forward to next update with cool features and they find some bugs (ones that come out when it is released onto the actual server). Some people exploit, roleplaying isn\'t usefull when you can go club rats for an hour and raise your strength stats easily.

Sure, you can fix these bugs, but the damage will already be done. This is where the wipe comes into play. You let the PL\'s keep the massive amount of loot and stats, then it makes more PL\'s join because of the easy way of exploiting and getting off scot free. Wiping will show that exploiting bugs is pointless.
If we have a second wipe now, soon after the first wipe, then it won\'t be as bad if the wipe came a few months down the track.

[Valbrandr]

I just want us all on an equal playing field.  No this game is not about the stats... its about the community as a whole.  

Its late though so I will leave with one last statement:

Basically I despise cheaters.. They cause others to have to cheat to keep up with them.  Its not fair.. and please no one post after me saying \"Well, life isnt fair.\"  There is a difference... we cannot always control what happens in rl to make situations fair... but we can in the realm of PS

[Eolius]

Originally posted by Kias
I don\'t see them as pointless. Lets say that we don\'t have a wipe at all (All tria, loot, etc. is kept). Some people decide they want an Uber char and level their stats a lot. Fast forward to next update with cool features and they find some bugs (ones that come out when it is released onto the actual server). Some people exploit, roleplaying isn\'t usefull when you can go club rats for an hour and raise your strength stats easily.

Sure, you can fix these bugs, but the damage will already be done. This is where the wipe comes into play. You let the PL\'s keep the massive amount of loot and stats, then it makes more PL\'s join because of the easy way of exploiting and getting off scot free. Wiping will show that exploiting bugs is pointless.
If we have a second wipe now, soon after the first wipe, then it won\'t be as bad if the wipe came a few months down the track.

There are many reasons i disagree with you, Kias.
First of all if i\'ll get \"ulber stats\" as you say (although, i repeat, if you would have trained you would know that is impossible) i\'m not getting those stats to kill you, i\'m getting those stats to be able to kill a clacker or other monster. I must repeat, this is not a player versus player game. So having stats and skills brings me in the position of beiing advantaged? Nope, i don\'t think so.
Having some stats will only help me to fulfill my guild duties better and be able to help others.
PL have been discussed in other threads and it is different than leveling, see this. Exploiting bugs isn\'t good but players that try to keep away from this will be bored of so many wipes.
To wipe us all so the mac users can be at the same level is fair but weird... Let\'s do a wipe everytime a new player joins so we can be all equal.
I really don\'t care if there are players thougher than me, i don\'t duel so it is really not that important.
I\'m not against the wipe, i\'m against a full wipe because i\'ll have to rebuild my char and my guild again waiting again for members to come online so i can invite them and so on.
I also camped a rat when the looting system was messed up so i can get 10 gold falchions as presents for my friends ingame. That is because i have nothing against a inventory wipe but i think a full wipe is a bit radical.

[miLosh]

i agree partially with eolius and valbrandr. yes, cheaters ruin everything but on the other hand - why care? most likely they wont be in a (to be respected) guild nor can they do any harm to me if i dont duell them. let them have as many trias as they wont, soon enough they will quit playing anyway out of boredom - or does any of you play simply to be listed on the stats page at laanx? guess not...

on the other hand, for me not being one of the lucky users that remember their character from MB, every wipe hurts much. im no PL (well, actually im polish hehe) and my main motivation is to RP with others. but i want to be able to do some magic, for thats how i play my character. i mean, what kind of a mage am i without knowing a single spell? sure i can RP to \"charm all around me with a freezy cloud\" but heck, i dont need to login to PS then and rather join a IRC RP channel. in addition it is quite hard to become a decent  mage when you start from zero. sure, if you have friends like valbrandr things go a little bit faster but in anyway, you will most likely spend days killing rats and other stuff before you get enough experience in one way to no longer depend on sword skills... but from my point of view, thats a design flaw in PS anyway. it should be possible to become a mage without having first to kill monsters with the sword (or the hand for that matters).

[Arkumin Delvrim]

Oh please. I\'ve never seen anything so funny! It\'s some kind of pre-Alpha/beta test that\'s open to the public so it can be massively tested but no discussion of bugs because the PL\'ing cheaters will get more powerful than the RPG\'ers who can\'t keep their community together because the wipes have to delete their characters, stats and guilds.  Big secret here folks! It\'s a bug, but it has to be kept secret! You\'d think that the NPC AI being bugged would be something they want tested to death so they can fix it. So BOO!:
If you attack and then walk past or any direction from a mob you\'ve just attacked until you are out of range, then walk back to it and attack it again before it moves, it acts like you aren\'t there while you kill it. Many variations on this, but most people can figure this one out pretty easy.
There. Now lets move on to more important things. If you are really concerned more about new people wanting to stay and play this game, the movement and sticky spot bugs need to be fixed. Getting stuck in the DR without being able to get out with /spawn has to be the most effective deterrent to a new person continuing to play this game that I\'ve seen. Much more important than your precious \"get rid of all the PL loot falchion cheaters cause they have more money than the crystal hoarders from MB\" concerns.
Yes, a wipe should be done. Hell, a wipe should probably be done before each update. I\'ll go even further. GM\'s or special testers should be given massive PP and Trias, or just maxed stats so they can test the upper end of things too.

As for Role Play, if you really want substantial RPG community continuity, persuade the Devs to figure out a way to wipe everything BUT the names and Guild memberships. That\'s really all you need to have RP continuity, right?

And any RPG\'er that exploits the knowledge that guilds keep to themselves about how to work the Quest engines, how to create and use macro\'s to equip potions,  how to do magic, how to exploit terrain bugs, how to do anything without figuring it out for yourself is Power Leveling. So go cry in yer spilt milk.

/me Drinks some more Ale and shakes head with amusement

[zanzibar]

Arkumin Delvrim, I think you\'re right about everything.


Sidenote - key dragon council members are definately guilty of those power-levelling strategies.  I\'m not saying it\'s good or bad, I\'m just saying it is happening.

[Neryam]

I just realized something. IF powerleveling is so discouraged, and you are supposed to just keep the stats you started with, what the heck are Trepors made for? What are Super Tefus Made for? What is the entire arena made for? What is the ULBERNAUT made for? There is no way in yliakum a player with the basic stats would stand a chance against any of those. Heck, the only think it can take is a rat! Seems awfully pointless to me.  X(

On to more important matters.
If cheaters have tons of money and hordes of PP? Why should you care? I don\'t. I hve absolutely no tria and no way to use the PP, but I don\'t really hate those crazy rich cheaters? They don\'t hurt me, I don\'t hurt them, They can have fun killing ulbernauts and using the flying bug, I\'m perfectly happy doing other things! More come, But that doesn\'t really stem the flow of noncheaters does it? When the Full version is done, they can just be banned if they still try to exploit bugs after a wipe. What\'s the big? If you don\'t powerlevel then you shouldn\'t care that half of the community in PS is stronger than you.

Actually though, I do want the wipe I noticed I kinda screwed up my character and I want to start fresh with everyone else.

But that I say is have one now and Have one total wipe right before the full release! No big bugs to exploit, and everybody starts fresh and on fair ground to enjo the complete and enoumous world of PS!

[leji]

/me votes for a wipe every two weeks, it will keep the PLers away, then add a few days (what about 6 ?) in each week when NPC cant be attacked, and RP will be enforced

[Neryam]

Ugh. Every two weeks? Did you not read my post? What, are we just supposed to stand around and talk or something? Is that what RP is? You can already do that in IRC thanks..  :O

RP is supposed to be roleplaying your alternate self. Going on grand quests, getting rich, famous, making lots of freinds. RP is not chat.  

[jorrit]

Originally posted by leji
/me votes for a wipe every two weeks, it will keep the PLers away, then add a few days (what about 6 ?) in each week when NPC cant be attacked, and RP will be enforced

That would prevent me from roleplaying my character. I play a magic using person. In two weeks I barely have enough time to get sufficient skills to practice magic.

Greetings,

[TheMinority]

every two weeks wouldn\'t work for me. even though i RP, i still like to train and collect as well to evolve my character. it would be a competition with every other player to get the rats first, as well as erase everything i\'ve worked so hard to get.

i vote: wipe only when necessary. time itself drives away the PLs anyway. although you can never really get rid of them all. there will always be PLs, no matter what we do.

they\'re kind of like cockroaches: kill one, and two more take it\'s place. and nuclear bombs don\'t work... you need Raid. lots of Raid!

*goes off to get some PL Raid*

[zanzibar]

If you make your character right at the beggining, you can give him level 7 in swords, or level 3 axe, or crystal / dark way in the teens.  If you do that, there\'s no reason for you to ever touch a rat.