Author Topic: New Character Creation Process  (Read 1664 times)

Kixie

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New Character Creation Process
« on: August 11, 2005, 12:01:27 am »
I have had an idea for the character creation process that I think is a pretty good idea. I don\'t know if it\'s completely unique, but I\'ve searched rigeriously through the search button and found nothing on the subject as of yet.

To begin, I think that the creation process is not completely usless. The whole process of mapping out your life at the beggining of creation goes pretty seamlessly if you know what you\'re doing. You can create new ideas behind the roleplaying of your character, simply by filling out the forms and clicking buttons. All of this is great, except for the fact that you are majorly limited by the fact you can\'t pick whatever you choose, and you have to choose fields based on how many creation points your character still has.

That little fact just inhibits so many from creating a character already vigerously plotted out; however that isn\'t my true argument with the system here.

To come completely out, my idea of Character Creation consists of this:

All characters start the game with a random generator. It\'s kind of a leap, but just bear with me.

All characters will have types of characters to create. Perhaps you want a physically fit character: Simply click under physical state, \"Physically strong\". The random generator will randomly pick a number for your attributes but of course, picking higher numbers in strength and constitution, but keeping lower numbers for intelligence and will. This process will include a number of sets for attributes including:

\"Pious\"
\"Aware\"
\"Balanced\"
\"Dexterous\"
\"Good looking\"
\"Healthy\"

After creation, you can of course still train your attributes. HOWEVER, after randomly rolled, your attributes are set in stone untill you train them. All the attributes will add up to a certain number, as to make sure no one is cheated with 1\'s in every catagory.

Now after attributes are created, you go on with creating the backstory of your character. This allows you to have infinate choices in creating your characters past, since it has nothing to affect your attributes or skills.

The character is created at this process, and I deliberately chose to skip skills for a purpose.

Skills, will be at 0 when you create a character. You will have absolutely none when you begin. Another major change is given here. Basically this simulates you coming of age at 13 or 14, and finally leaving your parent house, or whatever your roleplay choices you choose apply now.

You start at 0, and you are confronted at this point to make a choice. You may take an apprentice ship in a number of schools and choices. You may become a bartender, and gain Charisma and appropriate skills. These skills are determined through events that happen during you\'re job through bartending, via text. An encounter may go something like this

\"A customer walks in a with a sullen look upon his face. You ask him why he looks so sad, and he explains that his father of 45, died suddenly from a freak wagon accident. He tells you his father has given him an inheritance of over 4600 tria, but at the loss of his father figure.\"

You are given choices that could include:
A)Give the man a drink on the house, and have a conversation with him to ease his grief (+10 Persuasion, +5 Charisma)
B)Spike the man\'s drink, and ask him where he kept his inheritance. (+4600 tria, +5 intelligence)
C)Cheer the man up with a song and dance. (+10 performance, +5 Charisma)

There would of course be many other options, but those are all I can think of at the moment. You could be offered 5 scenarios, before graduating apprenticeship. Of course there would be many many scenarios created, so one would not encounter the same scenarious as other characters.

This system would in theory let the character create whatever background he desired, without limiting him in any way. The character would progress, and still keep a bit of reality to it.

What do you think?  :)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2005, 12:03:19 am by Kixie »

dfryer

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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2005, 12:22:29 am »
Interesting.

I definitely think there should be space for backstory, although we need a mechanism to prevent \"I was raised a half-demon dragon vampire ninja pirate, my parents died, and consumed with rage I became the greatest necromancer ever\".

Stats wise.. it would definitely be good to make sure things are balanced, but I personally want to avoid \"fine control\" of stats (or even, maybe, visible numerical values, just vague quantifiers).

Arm wrestling matches would be cool if you didn\'t know who was gonna win, but it was based on str + some random factor.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

odd2k

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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2005, 12:33:05 am »
I think I\'m getting an headache. There are so many things that need to fit for the char creation to be good. And a lot of these things clash.

I tend to look at it this way: You have two main things to make a good MMORPG, theres realism then there\'s balance.
By realism I mean stuff like how you can choose your character\'s past, job, etc. By balance I mean the game should be fun to play(not too easy, not too hard).

Ok, first about the stat allocating part of the char creation: You should definately be allowed to have some control over your character\'s stats, maybe not 100%. And even more importantly, you should not be able to hit small plus/minus buttons to tweak your stats, that\'s stupid and unrealistic. I say hide the numbers. All of them!

I agree, skills should be stripped away from char creation as you\'ll be learning those in game as an apprentice. About the roleplay part of the creation (Like choosing your parents etc.) I think they should be kept separate from the actual underlying numbers. What I mean is, it should not interfere with your actual stats. If both your parents were lumberjacks it does not neccessarily mean you are a very strong person etc. However, I suppose you could have things like how healthy, strong and good looking your character is. In text, no numbers! And adding a small random change to each stat would just make each character more unique. So, I pretty much agree with everything here. Sounds like a good idea.

Kixie

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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2005, 12:41:18 am »
Quote
Originally posted by dfryer
Stats wise.. it would definitely be good to make sure things are balanced, but I personally want to avoid \"fine control\" of stats (or even, maybe, visible numerical values, just vague quantifiers).

Well this is definately a good idea, and my idea could be altered that you never actually see your attributes after they are randomly generated, and choices you make in careers dont give away what you will recieve for making the choices.

Quote
Originally posted by dfryer
I definitely think there should be space for backstory, although we need a mechanism to prevent \"I was raised a half-demon dragon vampire ninja pirate, my parents died, and consumed with rage I became the greatest necromancer ever\".

Exactly why I think the background settings as they are, should be kept. The points thing should just be cut off, and they shouldnt affect skills or attributes.

Xordan

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« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2005, 12:53:24 am »
I would like to get rid of the end screen completely which shows what stats and skills you get and replace it with a char description window which gives you the basic description (Birth, life events etc.) and allows you to write the description for your character yourself. You find out what stats and skills you get after you login.  One of the things which definately needs doing is allow a wider choice of options so (optimisically) everyone can select options which fits their background story.

Keyaz

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« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2005, 01:06:13 am »
if you had your way xordan everyone would just get dark way skill and be your minion :P

I honestly like Kixie\'s idea, although scrapping everything altogether would be good too ;)

the less chance people have to compete for power the better ^^

zanzibar

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« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2005, 04:37:51 am »
I think that it\'s not a horrible system the way it is now.  I\'m almost done reverse engineering it, so I can now make characters that start off with level 17 dark way, or a crystal way in the high teens, or an elf with level 120 endurance, or a character that starts off with level 7 swords and level 5 light armour.

It\'s not to power level -- it\'s to make things easier at the beggining, and it allows me to test the potential of various spells.
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Suno_Regin

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« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2005, 05:35:20 am »
/me claps

Very well thought out

A+

Externals

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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2005, 06:53:04 am »
Pretty nice ideas guys.. Love the thinking.. seriously the GMs should put some thought into this thread.
Of course you should fight fire with fire, you should fight everything with fire.   :P  Xantherus Icer  :P

Kixie

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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2005, 10:44:34 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by zanzibar
I think that it\'s not a horrible system the way it is now.  I\'m almost done reverse engineering it, so I can now make characters that start off with level 17 dark way, or a crystal way in the high teens, or an elf with level 120 endurance, or a character that starts off with level 7 swords and level 5 light armour.

I think that\'s exactly what everyone here is trying to avoid. Reverse engineering your character\'s process to make uber characters that have a distinct advantage over all starting characters is not only boring, it\'s also kind of unfair.

When you know all these stats, it takes you completely out of the role. I think the developer\'s (I think, I could be wrong) are trying to focus Planeshift in the direction of Roleplay. Really, I agree with the direction they are taking.

Seytra

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« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2005, 08:43:49 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Kixie
Quote
Originally posted by zanzibar
I think that it\'s not a horrible system the way it is now.  I\'m almost done reverse engineering it, so I can now make characters that start off with level 17 dark way, or a crystal way in the high teens, or an elf with level 120 endurance, or a character that starts off with level 7 swords and level 5 light armour.

I think that\'s exactly what everyone here is trying to avoid. Reverse engineering your character\'s process to make uber characters that have a distinct advantage over all starting characters is not only boring, it\'s also kind of unfair.

When you know all these stats, it takes you completely out of the role. I think the developer\'s (I think, I could be wrong) are trying to focus Planeshift in the direction of Roleplay. Really, I agree with the direction they are taking.

I seem to be the only one to not like this idea, then. I hate not having complete control. Maybe it\'s because I usually have a clear idea of what it is that I want to RP, and thus of what it needs to be like. I am completely opposed to any form of randomisation. This idea is even worse than the one about the \"Naturally gifted chars\". :tdown:

I think the idea of separating the life events from the creation is double-edged. There will be a lot of people just skipping it because it doesn\'t serve any purpose anymore. Yes, it can give you ideas, but for that you don\'t need a char creation thing, but a page in the manual would suffice.
Furthermore, the char editation already provides the opportunity to do all the abuse that has been mentioned.
Also, I think that none of your char ceation choices should ever go into the description. This is completely unrealistic. How would someone be able to tell from looking at you when you were born, how many sibling you had, what your parents did and what happened during your life?
What belongs there is a visual description, things that everyone who looks at you and maybe observers causally can see / deduce, not an FBI file of your history!

As for the \"realism\" of a numberless /randomised creation: There already is no realism in giving you any choice at all! For realism, you would have to click \"create char\" and it would create a completely random char, including a completely random name and appearance, because that\'s what RL is. And seeing how many people are whining about not being able to use their standard names everywhere, something I find ridiculous, I do see a lot of reason to not at all like the remaining randomisation that is being proposed here!

And yes, while I did not completely reverse-engineer the creation, I did struggle with it until I ended up with something that reasonably closely resembles what I wanted.

Ivniciix

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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2005, 06:31:34 am »
I like the idea of no visible numbers at all. As yet, I\'ve not even been able to play so I haven\'t seen or experienced the interaction of the backstory screens except in the User Guide. Hopefully, the guy who runs my website & email will call me tomorrow with the passwords so I can check my spam filter which is probably where my authorization is languishing!

At any rate, there is a saying that I think applies here, and to PS in general, which I quote from Dr. Amir Bose (the guy who designed those little, overpriced radios amongst other things):

\"To be good, something must be different\"

The problem with no visible numbers, as already expressed in this thread, is that players want to play a certain profession (usually) and would like to know that the new character they just \"rolled\" is suited to that profession.

I think that can be solved in two simple ways:

1) Have profession be the first thing in the character creation screen so that the initial raw stats reflect a bias towards that profession. The next screen, Race, would add or subtract from those numbers. As you built your backstory, additional pluses and minuses would be added but these would not be fixed numbers. They would be random rolled within a narrow range (X =/- 2 or 3...or whatever makes sense for the actual numbers being played with). This reduces, if not eliminates, \"backwards engineering\" the scheme so as to defeat it. I suppose you could bypass building the backstory yourself still and have it all lumped together at the end but where\'s the fun in that? :)

2) The end result would be that every player had fractional modifier to the PP cost of raising every skill. If a tiered system of weapon skills or crafting is ever included, these modifiers could extend through the entire list with  \"affinities\" underlying all skills. A particular player might end up having a easier time with a shortsword than he would with a Claymore etc. None of this ought to be preclude anyone from actually following any path the choose but it would randomize and personalize characters while making any absolute number comparisons less and less important. Trainers could make pointed suggestions to players about what might be better (easier or cheaper or faster) to learn but I think the fun would be in learning those things yourself over time.

This all ties into  another thread about weapons not having visible stats and schemes by which players could \"discover\" how suited a weapon was for them. I like all this stuff...It\'s different and reinforces RP.

hereticalfaction

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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2005, 07:22:20 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Kixie
 Reverse engineering your character\'s process to make uber characters that have a distinct advantage over all starting characters is not only boring, it\'s also kind of unfair.




A noble sentiment as soon as the chargen system is tweaked to prevent all the unplayably weak charachters which can arise from it. It is way to easy to start with a guy who cant punch the broad side of a barn, has no skills, and takes damage like a jello mould.

I am not in favor of a \"point-buy\" system where you can dial down one attribut a point to get a point for another attribute, mind you. I am just saying that the problem isn\'t that people reverse engineer chargen, but that chargen is engineered to produce both wussy losers and Ubermensch.