RP and PL deliberation

[Ralas]

(brain = soggy so forgive me if i cannot properly articulate myself)

Gholmyrr, I think, has made it a habit to stand in the plaza almost all of the time, in an attempt to set a good example.  I, at times, have been there with him.  Now what we do is not exactly RPing, but it is all IC, which, I think, is a good example to set.  I think learning to be IC can lead to more proper RP.

Those OOC chats in the plaza are almost inevitable, as eventually someone needs a brief aside such as (arg another spam duel challenge), and then an entire conversation breaks out on the subject.
Sometimes when I am too tired, or uncreative,  to really be IC, I enjoy just chatting OOC with cool people, always, of course, using ().

I don\'t avoid the plaza because I am more likely to find friends there than in the tavern, which is usually vacant.  If I can\'t find anyone to RP with, I usually go kill stuff till I get bored, which doesn\'t take very long.

But yes, PLers, people with unsuitable names, and people who constaly speak OOC without () don\'t exist IC as far as I am concerned and my character usually ignores them.  Sometimes instead he considers them lunatics, depending on the situation and my mood.

Basically I talk to people I know are cool and ignore everyone else unless they speak to me IC.  This ensures that most of the time I am somewhat ostricized as I have to ignore 90% of the people I see, but it also makes for occasional good RP.  Now might be a good time to reread my opening parenthetical apology.

EDIT: arg, I can\'t type...

[Zan]

I don\'t want this to come over wrong but ...

Actually I think roleplaying was much more enjoyable back when you could find the RPers in the tavern. I \'m not saying that people who hang around the plaza are roleplaying badly or anything. Personally I dislike standing on the plaza for good roleplaying though since every two minutes either a new player comes asking for what to do or I get randomly challenged/invited into a guild by someone without exchanging a word.
I definitely don\'t mind helping people out who are new to the game but it still interferes with the roleplaying experience.

Ralas, you said that you \'d rather come to the plaza because you are more likely to find friends there than in the abandoned tavern. Which is true, no denying that .. but I \'m afraid that everyone is thinking like that. And because of that the tavern stays empty.
Personally I wish I could ignore those other people as well as you seem to be able to but I just find it more trouble than it \'s worth and it gets the fun out of it for me.

Anyways ignore my rambling here .. I \'d just like to see the tavern becoming occupied again like on the good old days

[Ralas]

hm well you\'re right Zan, it is better to be in the tavern, I just rarely have the patience to hang out there until someone shows up.  And when I do, I usually miss them being AFK.  But something neat happened yesterday:  I met Easton and JJairr in the plaza, and we decided to go get drinks.  Some decent RP ensued.  Eventually Jjairr had to leave, but not too long after that someone else showed up...someone I\'d never met, but who spoke only in IC.  Then he had to leave, and a while later it happened again.  I guess the point is hanging out in the tavern can weild surprising rewards, but sometimes you\'ve got to be patient, which I rarely am.

EDIT:  spelling, arg

[Karii_Winterwalker]

Originally posted by Karyuu
Hiya! First thing:

Originally posted by Neryam
[...] apperently there is a secret dev plan (pardon me) to make the game miserable for \"PLers\" by making enourmous amounts of PP and tria needed for each level.

May I inquire as to where you heard this? It doesn\'t seem like something the dev team would have in mind. Mentioning a specific source would help tons I\'m quite curious.

Then: I believe powerleveling as it is defined in Planeshift is not so different from the definition provided by you in the beginning. As I see it, powerleveling is the completely OOC grinding of skills and stats for very little purpose beyond building a sort of \"uber\" character - being the best, having the most, etc. The characters of most powerlevelers are nonexistant - the players themselves are doing all the killing or grinding, not the Enkidukai, or Dermorians, or Klyros or Hammerweilders, who all should have some sort of story behind them, some sort of personality, and a reason for every action that goes along with such.

A roleplayed character may very well have daily Trepor killing sprees, or spend hours upon hours with trainers. But he or she will always talk and handle him or herself in a distinct, IC manner, and have a reason for killing and a reason for training. Being the best swordsman is a perfectly valid goal, but what good is a best swordsman in Yliakum if he or she has no alignment, no definition of morals (barely there or held tightly in check), no enemies, no friends, and no plans besides being the best? It\'s the ties players form between their characters and the characters of others that make PlaneShift and all other true MMORPGs magical. When the goal is simply to kill sprites on screen and raise some numbers, that magic is destroyed.

At least that\'s how I see it.

I don\'t think anything more needs to be said.

[Cyrus Arckum]

I was and still am a Powerleveler, in Molecular Blue I didn\'t talk to others, in CB I stopped roleplaying months ago. Why? Because I feel that combat is more rewarding than sitting around and using PlaneShift as a chatroom with graphics.

[Kias]

Honestly, It sounds like you would be far better off in a single player game. The whole point of a Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game is both to interact with the many people and roleplay. You don\'t sound like you do either :/

[Cyrus Arckum]

In my opinion the focus of an MMORPG should be the online Economy and Government, not wasteing hours of codeing by just using it as a chatroom.

[Kias]

It\'s not wasting coding if the whole point of the game is to interact and roleplay. Oh, and your view of roleplay is completely wrong. How about going on an Ulbernaught hunt? Exploring the tunnels with new arrivals to the city of Hydlaa? Travelling with a band of players to the grounds of Ojaveeda? It\'s all about the journey, not the destination.

Putting a story behind killing monsters is what is needed, mindlessly killing for uber stats IS a waste of time because what do you get for it at the moment? A high number?

[Cyrus Arckum]

That\'s what I do. I gave my current Cyrus a reason for her to hate the beasts of Ojaroad, but I never say it, I\'ll be silent while killing, as that is my character.

[pwxyzg]

short time player/forum reader .. old school roleplayer
/you roll-eyes!?


reading these posts has made me think about the game, and it seems the RP\'s are all missing something.. the thing that Neryam has not quite said but is quite clear to me in actions not words :  a decision has been made at some point as to who the game caters to .. it is the PL\'s.


i shake my magic 8ball .. \'all signs point to yes\'  somewhere it seems the RP vision / mission / dream has been put on the back burner or gone astray; instances :
0> stats.. everything is stats and numbers, makes it difficult to get around trying to make someone stronger / faster to \"succeed\".
1> skills.. what skills are available and funcional?  ahhh...*thumb in the air* i\'ll say 95% of the currently functional skills are directed toward the battle aspects (what, you gonna use your spells to bake bread!? who / what is gonna use that bread? )
2> quests.. this is central to roleplaying.  no one roleplays sitting in a tavern (no one i know) i have done many of the quests in the game in the days (not weeks) i have been playing.. lets be honest, there are not enough, and they are not all so challenging.. and many are non functional!?
3> extras.. most are monsters, and of the NPC\'s, most are not active for conversation, they are like a bench or a tree!?

now there are solutions as i see it for roleplayers to take back the game..
(SPOILER.. see here for very similar ideas in much shorter form
http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=17220&boardid=11&sid=9fbdc7ac4d71df6e2886ae165efe7a7e
)
(NOTE : now, i\'m sorry that I am a bit ignorant to all the facts, which should make me keep my mouth shut, but regardless, here\'s a try at some solutions.. ALSO, I know they should probably be put into the wish list (although some could be done by the community NOT developers), but regardless, i feel it needs to be said HERE, I don\'t want to just complain)
forward > .. How live RP\'ng  (ones you sit around someone\'s table and roll dice) and this virtual RP\'ng differ is PEOPLE.  The people that are playing have a huge effect as to how it is played, when i was 12, we were PL\'ng!!  It wasn\'t until much later (after being bored due to the PL cycle and putting it down for awhile) that someone, a person, not just a storyline you bought in the store, but one that could weave and adjust the stories so that they captured and interested and challenged us.  This weaving aspect is particularly dependent on the skill of the GM. The GM that interacts to create, constantly fixe and adjust the mission and levels to the players intellect, skills and abilities.  This type of interactivity does not seem to be able to be automized in this type of medium (without a level of AI programming that to date i don\'t think has been made successfully (there is always hope in the singularity!?), regardless, it does not seem to be in the plans here).  So, it falls to people.  Honestly, if interactivity between gm and universe and players isn\'t somehow built into the GM interface it seems the roleplaying will always be 2nd fiddle (btw, just curious, what does the GM interface look like?).

0> stats.. stats are the basis of all RPGames i have played; but they were ultimately controlled not so much by the player but by GM\'s, by people, for \"worthy\" endeavors.
1> skills.. this is a touchy subject i am sure.  Of course the development of the other parts of the game need to coagulate to lead to more choices AND (hopefullY) interaction!  
2> quests.. let me tell you a story.  One day, i met a PL jerk & co at a big AND weak monster they were camping on (david and goliath, you know who was goliath!), after a short chat (i\'m new.. i was just wondering why they told me to get lost ) discovering their \"stats\" without really asking and finding out the monster was weak;  i teased them, saying they were quite manly to be so tough and pick on such a weak monster and then told them i thought it seemed boring to just kill the same monster and i was off to find some adventure or a quest.. one told me (/tell) \"i would really like that too\"  well!? ..ok, maybe they should just do it then!? but, where are the quests and guidance involved to help keep them challenged and in character!?

Lets face it, mike tyson needed don king.  (mike tyson =PL, don king = RP).  Maybe the RP\'s need to take a managing roll.  They can create quests / missions and the PL\'s should like it esp. as it gives them something else to brag about!  I think it is the mission / the quest is the glue that makes the PL\'s a part of the RP\'s universe!?

some ideas .. Perhaps every 2 hours, a group could meet and be selected for a \"special quest\" (eg put some low players against difficult monsters, the players will interact, probably as RP\'s, esp if the quest giver tags along!).  If PL\'s are not included they would obviously get bored (lets face it, to create a high level PL\'s quest, would be ridiculous, annoying for all other players and unchallenging in the universe as it is today and unfortunately, par for the course; something like \"get 500 items from monsters in 5 hours\", so maybe the PL\'s could go do their duels against eachother, it seems to be what they really want, a medieval quake arena (and here it isn\'t even about keyboard skillz, just levels and random luck (maybe we need a bookie trade/skill type to take wagers and odds!?) !?)!?) Another idea could be to create a class of known RP\'s that can actively create quests?  or maybe just a signup board for quests is all that is needed, if people want to get into one, the /tell the organizer and it puts their name into the pot and a giant die is rolled!?
3> extras.. here\'s an idea, give some people that are RP\'s a job to help keep the NPC\'s talking!? .. probably not possible / likely.  But, tying in with the rant above, perhaps all that is needed is that they could assume a GM role and could create missions or quests with some kind of rewards?  

I don\'t know... and i scrolling up, I have DEFINATELY said enough.
............................................................
now.. let the flailing begin.. ouch.. oowwww!

[Kias]

@ Cyrus Arckum: So then why do you call yourself a power leveler? If you have a story behind it, then that isn\'t power leveling.

Also, I don\'t think you see the other side to roleplaying. Yes, roleplay can be talking, but alot of the roleplay I do is exploring. I mean, me and some friends were in the tavern exchanging stories when I noted that on my first visit to Hydlaa I had slipped into the hidden dungeon entrance. We had an awesome time trying to squeeze around the wall to the warehouse. We had loads of fun.

Roleplay is alot broader than you think and I only have a problem with those people who kill monsters without any point to their actions.

EDIT: I agree with making quests, it usually only takes a little guidance to get people into roleplaying. When a newbie asks me a question, I reply in character and show them around Hydlaa in character. They usually pick it up quick and have a great time roleplaying.

[Kim]

I have to agree with you, pwxyzg. I really like your ideas.

I started playing a few weeks before the last wipe and found it quite hard to locate any sort of roleplaying. Possibly, it was the hours I logged on or maybe everyone left due to the upcoming wipe. There was never anyone in the tavern anytime I stopped by and I felt silly just waiting around for people to show up. The action in the Plaza didn\'t seem like roleplay either... more like random chatting in character for hours and nothing else. So I mostly just explored everything I could and showed other newbies around when I was asked for help.

Encouraging PLers by showing that RPing can indeed be fun and more than just sitting around talking (I even think this gets boring at times) is needed. The first time I RP\'ed I thought it was goofy getting in character, etc. But we had a great GM who pushed us and a few experienced players who proved how fun it is to get in character. If you\'re around a bunch of people who are RPing, you can\'t help but join, usually. It\'s addicting.

Quests and campaigns would be a big addition. Like I said, I don\'t want to sit around and just talk. I want to explore, hunt, and do things with other RPers and friends. The fun is in combining the talk with the action.

[Neryam]

Wow. Lots of nice looong additions while I was sleeping!  

Yes, I actually say standing around in the plaza is NOT RPing. It is chatting. :rolleyes:

RPing would, well sure, talking in the tavern, going on big moster hunt quests, doing other quests, hunting ulbernauts with your guild, and things like that. Well that\'s all that is possible right now. The thing is, later there will be more, much more options to RPing, so hopefully it will be much more fun and popular than PLing.

Things like.. constructing guild houses, buying guild land, mabye even building guild towns, discovering new land, Having guild town/seige wars, crafting swords, destroying evil castles with fireballs, charming monsters and riding pteausaurs, Storming a ruined land with many guilds in a huge collaboration and slaying the hundreds of deadly monsters residing there, aking the land and dividing it up between the guilds, inventing fighting forms and styles and fully customizing your attacks (Yes, this WILL be implemented) and so much more.

With all that, there is no excuse to NOT RP. RP will be SO much more fun than PLing to anybody. Even to the people who say \"0mg l00k 4t my |337 ha><0r bl4d3z yo\". They will want to RP also. And mabye those blades will cut the way to victory, leading the person\'s clan and that person will officially be a convert. And the PlaneShift world will glow, and will become the most popular MMORPG ever seen.  

[Quietus_Silivren]

Many people have characters who like to stand around and socialize. Of course, my character (who, incidentally, hasn\'t been seen in Yliakum for a while...) does that, and much more, as well. He might form a hunting party and slay ulbernauts, he might go to the arena and do battle with gladiators and mercenaries to earn money and hone his blades, he might spend his time in the hills of Oja Road, spell-slinging his way to greater glory, or he might go to Ojaveda and practice blacksmithing and swordmaking (might...any word on when this might be implimented?). He is an Elf, a swordsman, and a mage, with noble bearing and a common background. He has his own personality, his own interests, his own goals, and his own set of beliefs and morals.

It is true that much of roleplaying and character developement is revealed in the way that a character interacts with other characters, but also with the world; and it is also true that many things simply are not possible, yet, and this makes complete roleplaying difficult, as there is yet something lacking between what one can imagine for one\'s character and what is actually possible, but that will change in time, and I think it is important to try, at least, to make do with what we have, for the sake of the community. We shouldn\'t be bickering over this.

Power-leveling and roleplaying are not mutually exclusive, and while I happen to think that roleplaying is essential no matter what you do (because modern dialects, attitude, and culture have no place in Yliakum), I am saddened to see the issue tearing this community apart. I do understand that not every Planeshifter is a hardcore geek who LARPs (Live-Action Role Playing, for those of you who don\'t know. It means grab your tunic, breechers, and sword, and go camping and roleplaying with all the other escapist freaks ) at least once a year and knows what it means to roleplay in a world like this, and that\'s okay. I understand that this means not everyone is going to have their character speaking in a dialect that seems appropriate to me, and not only is that okay, it\'s not really my place to judge. I just want to get along with people (even if I don\'t get along with their characters) and have some fun. Am I right?

[Kim]

Hey Quietus, it\'s really nice to hear a balanced approach to the issue. I\'ll agree with you, because in the end, bickering like this is not going to help any. Instead I can imagine it pushing the RPers and PLers further apart.

Both will always exist, so it\'d be nice to find a common ground and just enjoy the game as best as we can with what we have. More will be implimented in the future, and when it does Planeshift will be that much cooler. Right now, I think it\'s great, tons of fun and I\'m really glad such a great team puts the time and effort into giving us this world to play in.