Fellow PSers, take a second and make a difference.

[Efflixi Aduro]

Hi my fellow planeshift players. I\'m posting this thread asking for all of you guys who live in the U.S. to please complete this form. But before you do let me give you a little background on what this is and why I\'m posting this.

From about 1900ish-1915ish the Turkish Ottoman empire commited genocide on the Armenian race. They killed over 1,500,000 Armenian men, woman, and children. They also made sure to specificly target our intellectuals and such. Armenia then seeked help from the USSR who did end up protecting them from the Ottomans. But still, In result the Armenian people were almost anialated as well as the home country Armenia got reduced to about 10% of its original size. This is because the Ottomans originally took about 130,000sqkm of the 200,000 Armenia originally had. But since armenia had fallen under the control of the USSR because of they favor the USSR did they now had full control of the armenian land and reduced the size of the country to about 20,000 sqkm (about 10% of what it was and it now stands like this). After world war 1 armenia was supposed to get most of its land back because of the paris peace conference but as ww2 broke out it got pushed aside and was never brought up again. Now today armenia is locked in by Turkey and Azerbajan which both countries are keeping all trade out of Armenia.

On sept 27 the well known group lead a protest in mighagan asking for Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert to allow a vote in the house to recognize the Armenian genocide. If this happens Turkey (and most probably Azerbajan) will have to pay reparations. If this happens Armenia will most probably have access to the black sea again which will make their economy skyrocket. But more importantly they will have much of the land that the Armenians lived in before recorded history.

Now, why do I care about this? Well one if it isnt clear yet, I\'m Armenian. All the members of System of a down are also aremenian and as far as I know (there may be more) 2 more of your fellow psers (robinmagus and karyuu) and also Armenian. So please simply write down your name and whatever it requires and press the button. Reparations for the Aremenian genocide are almost in reach with this. Europe is now also talking about this. My dad told me the other day that most of Europe was ready to force Turkey to admit genocide. (yes they still deny it...-_-)

I could probably write a book on the genocide but I think you guys have read enough to know what\'s going on.

So here\'s the link:
http://capwiz.com/anca/mail/oneclick_compose/?alertid=8041966

Thanks for your time,
-Efflixi Aduro

[ramlambmoo]

Well Im not american, So unfortunatly I cant sign the form and support this effort.  I certaintly had heard a bit about this previously.  Im a little sceptical because just because America Recognises the genocide, it doesnt mean Turkey Is obliged to pay reparation- The only body who could try and make such a demand would be the UN.  Plus, America has very good relations with Turkey, and has been trying to improve its relations with them due to their strategic positioning, by doing them favors like pressuring the E.U to allow Turkey to join.  So Im not sure what real chance there is of success... But I wish you luck all the same.  Hopefully they will have to pay for the atrocities they committed.

[ajdaha]

I\'m Azerbajanian.
Lol. Although I actually live in England.
I don\'t actually want my country to pay anything, seeing as its got a pretty small economy already.
Can you at least explain to me why Armenia is on Azerbajanian land? By Naxchivan? Was that originally Armenian land or ours?
I\'m no historian, and I never bothered learning the truth.

[Valbrandr]

I filled one out and sent it.  One of my college professors is Armenian, from Armenia.  She attempted to explain what happened to Armenia and their problems with Azerbajan and how she along with other Armenian professors and Azerbajan professor are trying to help the situation (because I guess the people on each side basically hate eachother from what she said though I have no idea)  by bringing together students from each country and letting them sit and talk with eachother.  I sure hope this can get done but with American ally Turkey on the one side.... Its going to be a helluva fight to get this done.  Ill email a few of my friends to see if they can help im sure Induane will get on it.  Best of Luck.

[ajdaha]

Well, I don\'t think they hate each other.
There are MANY Armenians living in Azerbaijan. And I\'m sure the same is true vice-versa.

[Efflixi Aduro]

Originally posted by ajdaha
I\'m Azerbajanian.
Lol. Although I actually live in England.
I don\'t actually want my country to pay anything, seeing as its got a pretty small economy already.
Can you at least explain to me why Armenia is on Azerbajanian land? By Naxchivan? Was that originally Armenian land or ours?
I\'m no historian, and I never bothered learning the truth.

Your country didn\'t even exist before ww1. That was all armenian soil but after the genocide most of the turkish soldiers just stayed there and called the new place azerbejan. You\'re basicly turkish, there\'s really no difference. Azerbejan and turkey have armenia locked down. If you go near the border, you\'ll get shot, which means no trade can reach armenia from land.

Map of historic armenia the orange is what we had before the genocide, as you can see, no azerbejan.
Heres another map

Pictures of some victims of the genocide
Also, there are armenian living in azerbejan because it WAS armenia until the soldiers took over andgave that area a name and stuff. But, there are few if any azerbejanian people living in armenia, why? Because their economy sucks. ajdaha I know that you obviously arn\'t that educated about what actually did go on during the genocide but the country azerbejan stands as a mockery to the armenians who are almost completely surrounded by turkish people.

Oh and thanks a lot Val. Oh ya Armenians basicly hate Azerbejanians and Turks, but wouldn\'t you hate a country that killer 1500000 of your people then denied it?

Edit again: adjaha I dont hate you in any way btw. I do hate your government and I wouldnt mind seeing every single one of them burn in hell, but im sure you wouldnt support the crimes commited

[JellyWerker]

I think this is stupid, this is like the \"my great grandfather was a slave so give me millions of dollar things\" Sure, the ottomans presecuted them, but there is no ottoman empire anymore, and it wasn\'t anyone elses responsibilty except armenia to protect armenians. I think what happened was horrible, but it is in the past, they are not being perscuted now, and those that did so no longer exist, nor do any that where persecuted.

[Efflixi Aduro]

Jellyworker be more respectful. 1,500,000 of my own people died and you\'re calling it stupid. Could somone please deleat his post, it seriously offended me. I just lost any respect I had for you...

[Makratok]

he has a valid point, although the wording oculd be better.

the past is the past, can\'t be changed, no matter how much you want it to, learn form mistakes, and plan a better future, its all you can do. this isn\'t doing so, its kinda holding a grudge from generations ago and whining about who owns what, its bickering on a global scale and we dont need it.

[Efflixi Aduro]

When youve had that land for 4000+ years and a country comes and takes it from you you tend to want it back. You could never understand how I feel because you arn\'t armenian. Most of our churches are now burned, the old capitals recide in turkey with all traces of armenians previously being there removed. The mountain named in like 1/2 of all our storys and has SO much to do with our history is now in Turkey.

As far as I\'m concerned its NOT a valid point and not a SINGLE Armenian will let this be \"part of the past\" until reparations are payed.

Edit: And jellyworker if there is no longer an ootoman empire then shouldnt we get the land the fallen empire took from us back? You don\'t know 1/2 the story man so find out what Turkey and Azerbejan are STILL doing to Armenia then talk. Tukey has been cought bribing collages and universitys to teach their students that the armenians did this to themselvs. Why would they do that if the ottomans were the ones who commited genocide? Simple, its the same people in control, just a different name for the government.

[Cha0s]

Regardless of whether or not reparations should be payed for moral reasons, for political reasons, it\'s a bad idea. Anyone else thinking of WWI, the new German government, forced to accept blame for a war fought before its existence and in which it took no part? That led to bad things... i.e. WWII.

Yes, the Genocide was bad and yes it needs to be remembered, regretted, and learned from. But forcing a government--especially one that is barely, if at all related to the government that committed the genocide--to pay for the genocide will not lead to good things.

EDIT: clarified

[Efflixi Aduro]

Chaos its not \"barly related\" it IS the government that did it. If you read the posts above you\'ll see one of the many way turkey is trying to cover this up. The Jewish people got Isreal as reparations to their genocide and the armenians havn\'t recived anything. All were asking that we get the reparations we where SUPPOSED to get after ww1 but the french and us never came through on getting us the reparations. I cant actually belive you guys are taking turkeys side on this, I feel sick.

Edit: Paying for the genocide and giving some of the land back which is ours will lead to better relations with turkey. Heck once they reparations I wont have anything against the country anymore.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Makratok
he has a valid point, although the wording oculd be better.

the past is the past, can\'t be changed, no matter how much you want it to, learn form mistakes, and plan a better future, its all you can do. this isn\'t doing so, its kinda holding a grudge from generations ago and whining about who owns what, its bickering on a global scale and we dont need it.

He was wrong.  Yes, it happened in the past.  But there are current, real consequences that affect people who are living today.  If we keep it in strictly economic terms, the familes of victims are poorer today because of the actions of the Turkish government.  We can\'t deny that.  Therefore, the argument that \"the past is the past... just forget about it\" is bunk.

[Hatchnet]

I agree that something needs to be done (should have been done a long tima ago but the USSR probably didn\'t want to take on the Ottomans in full). However I don\'t know enough about the situation to know if reerations are currently warrented all I can say is that the Armenians Do need help. Perhaps a donated airfleet and an enforced right of way through Turkish air space would be the better solution; again I don\'t know enough about the situation to know if that is the truth though.

[Valbrandr]

Oh and thanks a lot Val. Oh ya Armenians basicly hate Azerbejanians and Turks, but wouldn\'t you hate a country that killer 1500000 of your people then denied it?

Efflixi reread my post.  You misunderstood everything I said.  I was talking about what my Armenian professor along with Azerbijian professors were trying to do about a bad situation.  Because if I am not mistaken not that long ago the two countries went to war against one another?  I understand this situation effects you more than me.. but read with your eyes not with your heart.. Im on your side.