An Invitation to all Guild Leaders

[Sangwa]

Don\'t stray from the purpose of this topic. It\'s irrelevant to chatter about who has the right to post or not.
This topic is directed to the Guild Leaders, but since it is public, everyone else is free to post. However, the opinions from others besides guild leaders (unless they target possible modifications to the rules) should be kept away from this thread, for organization purposes.
It is up to guild leaders, or organization representatives, to express the guild opinions towards this issue. Personal opinions (may they be from guild members or freelancers) will have little weight in what concerns rule enforcement and will add only to a greater and unecessary number of posts often with the same ideas.
It is up to one\'s common sense if he should spoil or help. It\'s also up to one\'s common sense if he should care. Hopefully the Moderators will clean whatever is reported to be out of place.

Anyway, now to the on-topic part of the post.

While it might be good for new comers to have a clean Hydlaa, it might be unrealistic to forbid just any battle within its walls. Brawls and heated disputes happen often, even in our own communities. Let alone in a place where there are evil entities bent on havoc and chaos.
I think rule 5. covers the most important, and that the GMs should be the ones making sure rule 1. ins\'t abused (abuses consisting in pointless non-roleplayed or training matches in the plaza or overly repeated brawls and disputes inside Hydlaa\'s walls.)

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Pip
Which is why it should be incorporated. Incidentally, of which guild are you leader, Zanzibar?? And the death realm is not a suitable place for this behaviour as many newbies find their way there; unless you find a place well away from the bridge where everyone has to pass.

*sigh*  It would be best of you to avoid ad hominem attacks from now on, especially if you don\'t know the person you\'re making a miserable attempt to insult.  The death realm is presently the perfect place for training, because in training, people have a tendancy to die.  The way to discourage this would be to encorporate into the game a \"mercy\" function.  When the other guy gets down to almost no health, he looses the ability to attack, and you\'re given the option of whether or not to execute him.  If you choose mercy, he is free to run away.  If you choose to kill him, well we know what happens after that.  Additionally, fighting in the death realm distracts people from RP, but it actually helps the \"newbies\" because when they get stuck, they actually have people there who can help them out.

[Easton]

just popping my head in to give my two tria..

i don\'t think the Death Realm is a place in which RP dueling could be banned. It is after all the underworld. when i think of underworlds i think of a place that is somewhat chaotic, and lacking in authority or any form of normal laws. Hydlaa on the other hand is a nice, big city.. quite the contrast from a big bad death realm.  

as for sangwa\'s point- i think that heated disputes are bound to happen of course, but people must know the consequences of such fights. this way people can use their judgement as to the worthiness of the fight. if they don\'t mind paying a fine, or some form of punishment, then they can fight. if they decide it isn\'t worth the consequences, then they will pass.. and yes, GM\'s should be incharge of preventing random duels with absolutely no RP context in any way.

im trying to avoid all unnecessary confrontation by sticking to the point. i read everything every posts, but i only comment on what is strictly neccessary.. starting.. now..

Easton Ghent

[Sangwa]

As far as DE is concerned, I\'ll surely have this rules implemented, because the Dark Empire is lawful.
However we can\'t expect other evil and chaotic guilds to do the same.

I think the nicest thing for now, RPly and OOCly, would be having lawful neutral guilds watching for the mantainance of order in Hydlaa and Akkio.
This way they could demotivate and attempt punishing players who are engaging others in roleplay (in the peaceful and populated areas), while reporting abnormalities to the GMs.
It doesn\'t matter who leads such guilds. Corruption, unefficiency and unfair behaviour are realistic (In the roleplay enviroment. Corrupted and unfair people OOCly are just bothers and should be burned alive.) There should be more than one though, so that they would keep each other in line and to avoid having one guild with the monopoly of law.

[zanzibar]

Don\'t forget that corruption is usually exercised via corrupt laws.

[druke]

so what does this ahve to do with an invitation?

[Pip]

Originally posted by druke
so what does this ahve to do with an invitation?

The invitation is to enter the discussion regarding duelling, may I draw your attention to the first post.

[r.guppy]

I have posted the rules agreed so far in my own guild forum for opinions from members as i agree to all so far.
my thoughts on D Realm are for the present if you chose to fight there jump in pit, as i wish to point out that it is planed to expand DR in the future.

[Pip]

Originally posted by Easton
i don\'t think the Death Realm is a place in which RP dueling could be banned. It is after all the underworld. when i think of underworlds i think of a place that is somewhat chaotic, and lacking in authority or any form of normal laws.

There is no proposal to ban duelling in the death realm but I do think it is inappropriate to duel on the bridge where newbies have to pass. I was challenged more than once or twice in the death realm when I was new and found it inexplicable.

Originally posted by Sangwa
I think the nicest thing for now, RPly and OOCly, would be having lawful neutral guilds watching for the mantainance of order in Hydlaa and Akkio.
This way they could demotivate and attempt punishing players who are engaging others in roleplay (in the peaceful and populated areas), while reporting abnormalities to the GMs.
It doesn\'t matter who leads such guilds. Corruption, unefficiency and unfair behaviour are realistic (In the roleplay enviroment. Corrupted and unfair people OOCly are just bothers and should be burned alive.) There should be more than one though, so that they would keep each other in line and to avoid having one guild with the monopoly of law.

This is how I see it working too.

[Sangwa]

This is how I see it working too.

Can\'t we force someone into doing this?

[ramlambmoo]

Your members are not excluded from commenting, it is up to you, as leader, to bring those views to the forum.

This is entitled \"An Invitation to all Guild Leaders\" for a very good reason, which is to keep it streamlined and easy to compile. Guild leaders can discuss within their guilds as much as they wish. Individuals who do not belong to a guild are welcome to comment if they wish.

What if my members have conflicting views?  Who better to present a view then someone who came up with it?  If I were to present my views and those of others, I would surely mis-represent them (even unintenionally) through by own bias.
You are not a Guild leader, so perhaps you should keep quiet then so that we could \"streamline\" this discussion?  Frankly I dont think that it ever needed to be streamlined in the first place.  Everyone so far has provided their honest and constructive opinion.  If you only wanted hte Guild leaders, you should have sent individual PMs and asked them for the opinions of their guild, instead of Publically posting it and then belittling those who have the trivial difference of not nessecarily being the head of a Guild.

It is up to guild leaders, or organization representatives, to express the guild opinions towards this issue. Personal opinions (may they be from guild members or freelancers) will have little weight in what concerns rule enforcement and will add only to a greater and unecessary number of posts often with the same ideas.  

Yes, but how many guilds openly support behavior contrary to this?  The guild leaders all supported this type of behavoir (proper dueling) beforehand, and will continue to, but they arent the ones who need to change, are they?  Sangwa, for example, you have committed to this, but as you said It would be expected and hardly anyone in your guild does anything to the contrary anyway, so what is the use?  It is merely pointless discussion.  Which you are entitled to, I just thought I would warn you in case any of you harboured some notion of this actually acheiving anything further.

I think the nicest thing for now, RPly and OOCly, would be having lawful neutral guilds watching for the mantainance of order in Hydlaa and Akkio.
This way they could... ... attempt punishing players who are engaging others in roleplay.

Yeah, damn people engaging others in roleplay! Burn them! Make them suffer! Make th-... oh,.. wait?  I thought we were encouraging roleplay? *Goes off an reads PS guildlines*

[r.guppy]

Janner guild Leader of Janners Way: says i think you should read all of posts Pip is speaking on my behalf, i felt as a guild leader i would be seen as biased so asked Pip to speak for me, so as a guild leader i have a voice on equal level as other guild leaders.
 The reason this is on open forum is so that all involved may see comments and who said them.

[Sangwa]

I think I wasn\'t clear. I meant they would roleplay the law enforcers that would attempt to punish and demotivate the roleplaying troublemakers. That\'s why I added they woud report abnormalities, like pointless duels in populated areas.
I think it adds up to the RP enviroment having someone enforcing laws. Aren\'t you of the same opinion?

[ramlambmoo]

I think I wasn\'t clear. I meant they would roleplay the law enforcers that would attempt to punish and demotivate the roleplaying troublemakers. That\'s why I added they woud report abnormalities, like pointless duels in populated areas.
I think it adds up to the RP enviroment having someone enforcing laws. Aren\'t you of the same opinion?

Well the more I read it, the less clear it becomes, so I\'ll just go on what you stated just then.  Yes, having RP \"law enforcers\" would be a neat idea.  I thought the problem more was the OOC Duelers, personally, But its still good.  Then again, isnt a RP \"law enforcer\" just basically a GM?

[Sangwa]

RP law enforcers wouldn\'t have GM powers. They would have their bottoms kicked if they engaged with strong troublemakers and they would fail to catch running away thieves of good skill.

However, while doing their roleplay part, they could help GMs with their OOC duty (moderating irrational OOC duelers included.)