Lost Interest...

[Suno_Regin]

I have completely lost interest in Planeshift over time...All we can do is Roleplay, or PL, and both of them are boring at this point. With Roleplaying, we can talk with other people, and create stories and our own personal quests...But the problem is, none of the skills that would greatly help is roleplay are implimented yet. Also, with PLing, all you do is stand there and camp on an NPC, keep hitting, looting, and selling.

Also, guilds have gotten boring too. It seems that no guild can be unique, each has a purpose, a high member count, a website, and people...Theres nothing special about any of them, and regardless of what people say, they are all the same in the inside. Even Evil Guilds, which normally have a very heavy plot (world domination, chaos, activity basically) are the ones that get the most boots, the point of them is to spread chaos, and destruction. For them, it shouldn\'t be the same for a GM to say \"No dueling in the plaza\" because they are SUPPOSED to be killing, and fulfilling what they were meant to do. For the guilds trying to stop chaos, this would also be a good, new activity for them, to add a plot to their guilds, other than OOC plots helping a newbie find the sewer, or telling them how to play the game...

I think that we should at least have Real-time events in-game, that give problems that need solved, and special reward that can make someone unique, and at least stand out (only one person can get one reward, then the event ends) this would add interest into the game, and a good storyline to unfold. I would guess these should happen once a week, each one being different, or fold into a series of events that lead into a deep plot.

As I see it, all we can really do in this point of the game is find bugs. Even at that, theres a problem...When we find bugs, it seems as though the Devs put it off, and keep putting it off (or maybe take a long time to fix it, I\'m not trying to cause an arguement about this, but it just seems to be put off) and its only fixed after the problem reaches its peak, and causes players to quit. Also, as more things are implimented, they cause more bugs, and make everything unstable, so we have about 27 bugs to worry about at once, and none of them are taken care of.

The Devs work hard on the game, and use their own free time to create this game, and I\'m glad they do, its been very fun...But its just gotten dull, and overtime its just been bug after bug, each causing problems for people to endure.

I know this is Pre-Alpha, and almost nothing is complete now that will be complete in a few years, but, though it is our job to find bugs, it should be the Dev\'s job to make a test server, and find these bugs and fix them BEFORE implimenting new things. For us, we should be finding the OVERLOOKED bugs, and reporting them so they can be fixed shortly, but we have overwhelming bugs all at once from each new thing implimented, and it makes things very corrupt and unstable. It seems the biggest worry is keeping the server stable, but what should be fixed first is:

1. Server lag (rearranging the server cables caused this problem a month ago...Still hasn\'t been looked at)
2. Bugs that might cause the server to become unstable
3. Ahead-of-time warnings of when the server will be shut down for repairs (so we don\'t get thousands of complaints from people asking \"When will the server be up!?\" or something...)

There, I said what I wanted to say...

[Moogie]

Devs constantly fix bugs, so I have no idea where you got this idea of \"putting off\" from.

Guilds are boring and unimaginative, but that\'s nothing devs can fix. Guilds are constructs of the community, so blame them.

Real-time events require the proper GM tools, which is being internally discussed and developed.

\"As I see it, all we can really do in this point of the game is find bugs.\" Ah, someone knows the purpose of a tech demo! Spread the word, it seems many people arn\'t aware they\'re just testers here.


1. Server lag : This was caused mostly by the Updater server being on the same machine, which was changed months ago.

2. Bugs that might cause the server to become unstable : Bugs are fixed when they are found or pointed out.

3. Ahead-of-time warnings of when the server will be shut down for repairs : Now do you want things to be fixed, or do you want devs to spend every moment of their time giving warnings about down-time? Isn\'t it more important for their free time to be spent addressing problems, rather than giving you a little extra \'comfort zone\' that you could do without quite easily?

[Suno_Regin]

Well, you have a point...Accept for the bug fixing when seen part.

Do you remember the first time the black glitch appeared? That was put off for such a long time, when all it really needed was an automatic relight (I think...seems to be the same with the current one to me) or the day time in-game to change

Yet, after the wipe \"The Huge Bug Fix\" it turned out, was actually a \"Bug Dump\" that dumped new (and old) bugs into the system, and it even re-introduced a new black glitch, that came in different colors of the rainbow this time ;P

Even now, a few of those Wipe Bugs haven\'t been fixed entirely, solutions have been found, but not implimented...To me, I think to fix the black glitch would be to have an automatic relight implimented during the first moments of loading the game, to make sure this doesn\'t happen again.

[Moogie]

If you know solutions to bugs that havn\'t already been fixed, feel free to let us know on the Bugtracker. That\'s what it\'s there for, after all.

The blackness bug wasn\'t ignored, but it did take a long time to figure out why it was occuring and what to do about it.

Keep in mind that there are approximately 100 bugs fixed ready for the next update (which should have happened today, don\'t know whether it did or not?). Most bug fixes are not implemented immediately. They come with the bi-monthly \'big\' update.


Edit: About your relight solution: I think we\'d actually prefer to fix bugs, rather than add hacky bits of code to make them \'invisible\' to players.

[Suno_Regin]

Thats interesting, I look forward to this update :D

Also, I\'m going to post my view of the darkness bug in this thread, and later in the bug tracker.

As I see it, when we load the game, it loads the maps, and colors, everything we could need...But, if there is a server crash, or an instant logout and login in your client, it will become black glitched. The reason is, because of the sudden crash and reload, it sees the map as already loaded, and leaves it the same, when really it wasn\'t loaded. To fix this, we need an automatic relight when loading the game (maybe one of those small steps at the top left corner like \"Loading Gui\" etc. Just with this one, it should say \"Loading Map\" then \"Reloading Map\" or \"Relighting\")

Remember, this is only a guess, so I could be right or wrong on it, but it seems logical in my eyes.

EDIT:

Originally posted by Moogie
Edit: About your relight solution: I think we\'d actually prefer to fix bugs, rather than add hacky bits of code to make them \'invisible\' to players. :)

Thats why it should be temporary UNTIL the bug is fixed, so we at least don\'t have to suffer from the bug ;)

[Valbrandr]

The best point you had Suno is about the guilds.. Im not an elitist or a Noob hater or even ever  use the word noob... but if you stay ingame too long you will see a hundred different guild that were created because \"we are friends and we thought it would be cool\" and that fine but there are serious guild out there as of now.  atleast 15 or so that are established and are unique in many ways.  I believe that part is one of the funnest aspects.. setting up guilds.. Its what I like to do.  But also, the only reason I get ingame is too see my friends and to RP when I can.  You have to find what you like because who knows when everything is going to be implemented.  If you cannot except what is.. then you will have a hard time being here.

[Suno_Regin]

Talking with friends is fun, but most of the time I just want to talk with them without roleplaying, but keeping the /me commands and things, just to have fun without having to act in character and be completely serious...We should have an OOC Chat Channel and a Roleplay Channel

EDIT: Heh, got my 350th post, I feal special :D

[Moogie]

Despite holding a contrary side of argument to you, Suno, I do agree with you overall that CB doesn\'t hold its own for long, and its hard to pinpoint the reasons (I had a go in Talad\'s thread MB vs CB).

I didn\'t mean to sound overly argumentative, because it\'s not like your points arn\'t at all valid or fair. So I\'ll say this: if you decide to stick around, good for you. If you decide to leave, good luck, and hope you find a nice alternative.

[DaveG]

Honestly, once I read the title of this thread, I was expecting to read a flame war here.  I\'m quite happy that this turned out so nice and friendly.  

Frankly speaking, PlaneShift is not currently something with infinite replay value.  There\'s simply not enough to do in game to keep someone\'s interest forever, at this point in its development.  The best thing to do when you run out of new stuff in-game, is to make some more yourself.    Try and organize stuff in-game, and/or fix some bugs.  But if that isn\'t your thing, just check back every few months for new stuff.

On the subject of bugs:  We fixed allot of crap for this update.    This is the first time I\'ve seen the client\'s open bug count under 170.  (there\'s allot of minor stuff, and many non-\"bug\"s in there; trust me, that\'s low)  This update should fix a bunch of people\'s complaints.

[Suno_Regin]

I\'ve noticed people talking about this new update a lot, I hope it fixes as much bugs as said...(Also DaveG, good job on becoming a WTB Member :D)

Also Moogie, I\'m not going to quit, because I have too many friends here that I can\'t leave behind, and I don\'t have too many better things to do ;)

[zanzibar]

The problem isn\'t bugs.  The problem isn\'t power levelling.  The problem isn\'t the weapon system, new maps, or anything else of that nature.



The problem is more fundamental.  Characters need a fundamental motivation, something to work towards or fight for or struggle against.  Right now, people can invent motivations through RP, they can simply explore the game and try new things, or they can try to be the richest and most powerful.  I think that all of these are valid.  Hate on power levellers, but I think they\'re an important and valid part of the game.  For instance, if Hydlaa was being invaded, we\'d need great warriors.  An ulbernaught doesn\'t really pay attention to /me commands.  Examples of self-motivation through RP includes the Community of Valnorsomething as created by Valbrandr, Mitaki\'s personal war with his memories, Amheh\'s and Karsier\'s drive to cause choas and misery due to their personal histories, and so on.

The thing is, these pursuits and stories aren\'t systemically enforced or encouraged by the game.  In other RPGs, there\'s something which is an actual part of the game which you can choose to react to.  There are guild wars, but they\'re usually fickle and don\'t have root causes except fun or personal grievances.

Once the economy is more player-based and all the kinks and ballances are worked out, I think that will add another dimension to the game and will help meet that goal of giving people an in-game goal.  But there are more complex conflicts to explore, and as much as RP as it exists in planeshift right now is as good a thing as it is, I think that those conflits should be systemically encorporated into planeshift in some way.  In single player RPGs, it\'s easy --- usually a fight between good and evil, and a main quest which is broken up into discrete chunks which you can accomplish one at a time.  Throughout, there is this theme or idea or enemy which encompasses the whole effort.  Does planeshift have this?  Should it?  What should it have instead?

[Seytra]

I disagree that the evil guilds being punished without reasons. As long as there is no RPable power of actually countering evil, evil mustadhere to the same rules as good. This means that unless there is 1) a real guard / police, and this police has 2) real power beyong RP value, \"evil\" and \"chaos\" would keep being abused by players who merely want to PvP or otherwise disturb the game, i.e., completely OOC morons or troublemakers. This would not be IC evil, it would not further RP, have no value to the game and instead detract from RP due to the spam. The very few actual IC evil duels do by far not outweigh the OOC ones, and they can also be RP\'d or taken elsewhere if need be.

Edit: @Zanzibar: PLs aren\'t in any way needed. RP wariors are. These are two completely different things.

[Suno_Regin]

I think he means we need Warriors that don\'t hit 20\'s ;)

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Seytra
I disagree that the evil guilds being punished without reasons. As long as there is no RPable power of actually countering evil, evil mustadhere to the same rules as good. This means that unless there is 1) a real guard / police, and this police has 2) real power beyong RP value, \"evil\" and \"chaos\" would keep being abused by players who merely want to PvP or otherwise disturb the game, i.e., completely OOC morons or troublemakers. This would not be IC evil, it would not further RP, have no value to the game and instead detract from RP due to the spam. The very few actual IC evil duels do by far not outweigh the OOC ones, and they can also be RP\'d or taken elsewhere if need be.

Edit: @Zanzibar: PLs aren\'t in any way needed. RP wariors are. These are two completely different things.

This is one of the rare times where you\'re wrong on something.  The way people are evil, from what I\'ve seen, goes far beyond PVP.  Because there\'s so little to do, people have become much more creative.


As far as power levellers, even the \"role-playing warriors\" get labelled as power levellers, including yours truly.

[Suno_Regin]

/me is amazed at how much more mature Zanzibar is acting now