Author Topic: Sun Tzu  (Read 1077 times)

Suno_Regin

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Sun Tzu
« on: October 19, 2005, 03:49:55 am »
I saw a hockey commercial that had a quote from Sun Tzu about a warrior...When I read it, I wondered about him, so I googled his name, read a few websites and...I was impressed, he had layed out strategies in war and was very descriptive...

Heh, now that I think of it...I played one of the Dynasty Warriors games, and I remember Sun Jian (in game of course) claiming to be the son of Sun Tzu, the famous strategist of china...I don\'t know how much is real, or if Sun Jian is real ;P

Anyway, some people should read Sun Tzu\'s \"The Art of War\" book, very wise about war strategies and tactics...

Keyaz

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« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2005, 03:55:53 am »
indeed, a genious of warfare it is said, I have thought about reading a translated version of his work, but I feel it to be more fun if i were to learn the language and read an original copy ^^

Suno_Regin

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« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2005, 03:57:53 am »
Heh, read Chinese and English, see which one was translated wrong ;P

After all, theres always something changed differently :/
« Last Edit: October 19, 2005, 03:58:26 am by Suno_Regin »

zanzibar

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« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2005, 05:26:06 am »
Quote
He who is quick tempered can be insulted.

He who is moral can be shamed.




I\'m reading through an english translation of his book.  It\'s good stuff, there is a lot of interesting material

http://www.sonshi.com/learn.html
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JellyWerker

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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2005, 06:24:53 am »
read his essay\'s multiple times (the published books are a collection of his essays) An excellent strategic thinker, his work can be applied to almost all areas of life (almost :P)
Warning: Prone to common sense.


verideon

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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2005, 10:10:52 am »
ok now I know who Sun Tzu was :P. been wondering that since when I first built that wonder while playing Infrogames interactive\'s \'Civilization III\' as people may remember from one of my first threads which was a verrrrrrry long time ago :D
« Last Edit: October 19, 2005, 10:11:53 am by verideon »
yes... i\'m addicted to smilies :P:):D;), get me mental help peoples....

Zan

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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2005, 10:23:32 am »
If you like Sun Tzu you also might want to look up Myamoto Mushashi and his \"Book of Five Rings\". He is basically the Japanese counterpart of Sun. Though Mushashi works a bit more with battle strategies while Sun Tzu contemplated bits of wisdom with a more broader use.

Both books are a great window into oriental philosophy and definitely a must read if you ask me :D
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backeroo

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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2005, 03:20:50 pm »
And not to forget the Hagakure by Tsunetomo Yamamoto about the Samurai code.

regards
 

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ramlambmoo

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« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2005, 03:40:04 pm »
Make sure you get a good version of the book when you are reading the Art of War.  The actually \"book\" itself is very short- indeed only a few pages long.  However there are alot of commentaries on the work which add depth and explain what Sun Tzu means, and further strategies.  There are Eleven \"Standard\" commentaries, plus a host of others from random people.  The eleven standard Commentaries were written by Cao Cao (If you\'ve played dynasty warriers as someone said you should remember him, he is a very famous warrior / general who founded the wei? dynasty from memory), Meng Shi, Jia Lin, Li Quan, Du You, Du Mu, Zhang Yu, Mei Yaochen, Wang Xi, Chen Hao and Ho Yanxi.  Some of those people are famous, others are known only for their commentaries.  You can get editions with commentaries by many other people, for example I have one with commentary from Mao Zedong (uh...chinese history again- If you dont know, he was the communist leader of china Until his death in the 1970\'s).  I\'d also recommened you read the I Ching, a Taoist manuscript / book, which will help you understand the text alot better.  I cant read Traitional Chinese, so I cant give any comment on valid / incorrect translations.

Time for a favorite quote:

\"Therefore the victories of Good warriors are not noted for cleverness or Bravery.  Therefore their victories in Battles are not flukes.  Their victories are not flukes because they position themselves where they will surely win, prevailing over those who have already lost\".
« Last Edit: October 19, 2005, 03:44:49 pm by ramlambmoo »

zanzibar

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« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2005, 07:38:21 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by ramlambmoo
Time for a favorite quote:

\"Therefore the victories of Good warriors are not noted for cleverness or Bravery.  Therefore their victories in Battles are not flukes.  Their victories are not flukes because they position themselves where they will surely win, prevailing over those who have already lost\".




I noticed that sentiment as well, and it repeats in the book from time to time.  The problem is, what if you have a goal or order which you must accomplish, yet victory is not certain, or perhaps even unlikely?  These situations do exist.

Also, according to Sun Tzu, would the battle of the Masada be a victory or a loss?
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Suno_Regin

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« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2005, 07:42:13 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by ramlambmoo
Make sure you get a good version of the book when you are reading the Art of War.  The actually \"book\" itself is very short- indeed only a few pages long.  However there are alot of commentaries on the work which add depth and explain what Sun Tzu means, and further strategies.  There are Eleven \"Standard\" commentaries, plus a host of others from random people.  The eleven standard Commentaries were written by Cao Cao (If you\'ve played dynasty warriers as someone said you should remember him, he is a very famous warrior / general who founded the wei? dynasty from memory), Meng Shi, Jia Lin, Li Quan, Du You, Du Mu, Zhang Yu, Mei Yaochen, Wang Xi, Chen Hao and Ho Yanxi.  Some of those people are famous, others are known only for their commentaries.  You can get editions with commentaries by many other people, for example I have one with commentary from Mao Zedong (uh...chinese history again- If you dont know, he was the communist leader of china Until his death in the 1970\'s).  I\'d also recommened you read the I Ching, a Taoist manuscript / book, which will help you understand the text alot better.  I cant read Traitional Chinese, so I cant give any comment on valid / incorrect translations.

Time for a favorite quote:

\"Therefore the victories of Good warriors are not noted for cleverness or Bravery.  Therefore their victories in Battles are not flukes.  Their victories are not flukes because they position themselves where they will surely win, prevailing over those who have already lost\".
Cao Cao was real too? God...I guess Dynasty Warriors did have a realistic fantasy version of China back then...Just no real magic....

/me kicks Zhang Jiao

Suno_Regin

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« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2005, 07:43:58 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Zan
If you like Sun Tzu you also might want to look up Myamoto Mushashi and his \"Book of Five Rings\". He is basically the Japanese counterpart of Sun. Though Mushashi works a bit more with battle strategies while Sun Tzu contemplated bits of wisdom with a more broader use.

Both books are a great window into oriental philosophy and definitely a must read if you ask me :D
Actually Zan, his name isn\'t Sun, its Tzu...I think in China they have reversed names...or maybe they just do that to show what family they are from, something like that

(sorry for the double post, I always like to do some quoting here and there)

ramlambmoo

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« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2005, 11:21:59 am »
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Cao Cao was real too? God...I guess Dynasty Warriors did have a realistic fantasy version of China back then...Just no real magic....  


As far as i know (I.E, I played dynasty warriors for like 30 minutes 4 years ago and am basing my knowledge on that memory) all the people and battles in it are real.

Suno_Regin

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« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2005, 04:49:53 am »
Heh, I don\'t think so actually...

Now the main Officers \"Liu Bei, Sun Quan, Cao Cao, etc.\" might have been real, but the ones off to the side just had randomly generated names, I noticed in each name, a lot of them used \"Zhang\" and \"Guan\" was also popular, the rest were just two letters that could have also been used in other names as the first name...

/me kicks the random name generator

ramlambmoo

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« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2005, 05:22:54 am »
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Heh, I don\'t think so actually...

Now the main Officers \"Liu Bei, Sun Quan, Cao Cao, etc.\" might have been real, but the ones off to the side just had randomly generated names, I noticed in each name, a lot of them used \"Zhang\" and \"Guan\" was also popular, the rest were just two letters that could have also been used in other names as the first name...  


Of course, how are they going to have all the names of the officers.  But be careful what you say, they\'re all probablly valid chinese names, whether you think so or not :P