Wipe

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Gentar
All I say is, thank you for them. Gets rid of all the exploits. Im not an RPer or a power leveler. I simply like to mess with everything the game has to offer. I especially like to take in the awsome design work. But it does bother me that people are out there picking up crazy good random weapons and getting their sklills so some insane level in about a week.

Huh?  What exploits are you talking about?

You\'ve just described an effect - you feel people are progressing too quickly.  So what do you believe are the causes of it?

A sure one is the widespread availability of fire, frosty, and dark weapons.  It seems that the devs have already made such weapons much rarer to loot, but the ones that are looted never leave the player base.

Once weapons begin to require repair after a period of use, I think that particular problem will disapear.  People will be much less willing to just give weapons away; their value will increase.

But that isn\'t an exploit.  Not in the slightest.  That\'s a matter of ballance within the very mechanics of the game itself.

So what exploits are you refering to?

[Verrliit]

Originally posted by Gentar
All I say is, thank you for them. Gets rid of all the exploits. Im not an RPer or a power leveler. I simply like to mess with everything the game has to offer. I especially like to take in the awsome design work. But it does bother me that people are out there picking up crazy good random weapons and getting their sklills so some insane level in about a week.

My dear Gentar:

I promise you, that maxing even a single skill takes over a hundred hours.  

What has happened is not that people are at insane levels, but rather that the distance between the extremes of mundane weapon (slash 1.0) and the most powerful (slash 540 or more), has been expanded.

Remember that most of the unfamiliar names you see doing big damage, are Alts or have the weapons on loan.  There are far fewer of them than it seems there are.

But if you think the new weapons have changed the world, you have seen nothing yet.

Wait until the only way to get a healing potion, is to buy one from a player who makes them.

Now,  that will be insane.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Verrliit

Originally posted by Gentar
All I say is, thank you for them. Gets rid of all the exploits. Im not an RPer or a power leveler. I simply like to mess with everything the game has to offer. I especially like to take in the awsome design work. But it does bother me that people are out there picking up crazy good random weapons and getting their sklills so some insane level in about a week.

My dear Gentar:

I promise you, that maxing even a single skill takes over a hundred hours.  

What has happened is not that people are at insane levels, but rather that the distance between the extremes of mundane weapon (slash 1.0) and the most powerful (slash 540 or more), has been expanded.

Remember that most of the unfamiliar names you see doing big damage, are Alts or have the weapons on loan.  There are far fewer of them than it seems there are.

But if you think the new weapons have changed the world, you have seen nothing yet.

Wait until the only way to get a healing potion, is to buy one from a player who makes them.

Now,  that will be insane.

I\'m sorry, but -- well, no.  I\'m not sorry.

Weapons with 400+ slash are bogus.  They only occur as freak accidents, and you have to be spending an insane amount of time in the arena before the odds say you get one.  I do NOT believe that\'s what the devs intend to be the norm, and therefore such weapons do NOT count as an intentional expansion within the game.

I think that Gentar has a point somewhere, and I would like to hear his reasoning, but I\'m pretty sure he isn\'t thinking about freak incidents and players who as much time camping rogues as individuals such as yourself.  The way he said it, he\'s thinking of a more general and basic issue more fundamental to the planeshift mechanics.

[Thoronador]

Originally posted by Xordan
I would guess that there will be at least one more wipe before version 1.0

Good old British understatement

Although I\'m not a dev, I can predict that there probably will be a dozen wipes or even more until version 1.0 is released.
Some might ask what wipes are good for: for testing new features, balancing the game (and it still needs a lot of balancing, especially magic vs. weapons), and (last but not least) to get rid of bugs and exploits.

Some people tend to overstress what they loose during a wipe: stats and the items in their inventory. But what do we get? More features, bugfixes, better game balance and much more.
I think this is more worthwile than stats and money.

[Constin]

I do see the good/bad points of a wipe. I have never played a alpha/beta game and had to really worry about it. I do see a need to do a wipe when others have advanced to quickly or if any form a cheating was involved. If that would be the case I see no problem.

As for them being paid.... I would donate to a game like this if it would keep it free for others. Or even to speed up the prossess to fix bugs. (how I hate not being able to attack) But maybe Ill enjoy the game a bit more, sit back have a few mugs of my favorite brew. Talk with the community a bit. Ahh heck let the wipe commence. I would enjoy a new challenge. Well im off to the tavern who will join me?

(Bows)
Constin Sr.

[DaveG]

Originally posted by zanzibar
Weapons with 400+ slash are bogus.  They only occur as freak accidents
...
I do NOT believe that\'s what the devs intend to be the norm, and therefore such weapons do NOT count as an intentional expansion within the game.

That\'s true, they were never intended.  Whatever problems that haven\'t been fixed yet, will be fixed eventually.

Originally posted by zanzibar
Why not to wipe:

New features are best tested by players who have the resources to take advantage of them.


Why to wipe:

To test solutions to ballance issues.

Yep; hit the nail on the head.  Sometimes wipes also have to be done because the new stuff that replaces the old creates incompatibilities.  If there\'s a big change to the db schema, we can\'t worry about preserving old data; we just need to make the changes and move on.  There\'s no need to preserve a \"score\" or anything.  Some sort of fixed amount of money per 6 months of being with PS sounds good to me.  (the preservation of MB crystals in spite of wiping everyone else annoys me...)  The oldbies that have stuck with us can skip the stuff they\'ve done a million times already, and let the new guys go with it.

[Toven]

Everyone has been speaking of skills and items.  Does this mean that Guilds will never be wiped?  

That would make the amount of money that it costs to start one into not so much of a barrier.  Of course I would still need to find a few more friends to join.

[Verrliit]

You were just begging for me to pounce on this, all teeth and claws and lashing tail, weren\'t you...

Originally posted by DaveG
That\'s true, they (400+ slash weapons) were never intended.  Whatever problems that haven\'t been fixed yet, will be fixed eventually.

If they were not intended, then they were a happy accident.  Never mind the loud complaints by the tiny few in the PS community, who are either jealous, or worshippers of dull and boring.

1. They are a wonderful grand prize in the Lottery of Looting.

2. Without such weapons, only large groups of mages will be able to do significant damage to the owners of enchanted armor and shields... and such owners will not even be able to damage each other.

3. Study of the existing enchantment system shows that such weapons are very much intended, although they would probably be named differently in a corrected system, than the ones that currently exist.

Originally posted by DaveG
There\'s no need to preserve a \"score\" or anything.  Some sort of fixed amount of money per 6 months of being with PS sounds good to me.  (the preservation of MB crystals in spite of wiping everyone else annoys me...)  

LOL.

You are funny, DaveG.  

You say there is no need, and then immediately propose a way to do it, and say that it is unfair to wipe CB players without migration.  You may not want to admit it, but you see the need yourself.


If RP is the holy grail of PS, then PS is not really a game.  It is a circus tent, a place to play, a stage upon which the players perform. The Devs only create the setting and the props.  The players do the rest of the work.

There must be a reward for putting in time and effort, or you risk losing the heart and soul of PS.  

It is the players who create the games and the fun. They tell the stories, teach Noobs how to RP, and entertain each other.  Somehow they have managed the miracle of creating a fantasy world, in spite of the broken code, low-res graphics and lagging chat.

You are right that time is the factor that is crucial.  But it is not six months, a week or a year, that should be the cut-off.  

It is very clearly the number of hours logged, that should be rewarded.  Once a player has played a character for 200-500 hours or so, they should be added to the migration database.  To be fair to those who play multiple characters, this should be based upon the total time a player account has logged on the server.  To automate that, should be trivial to code.  

It is also obvious, that a CB player who has logged 500 or even 3000 hours this year, deserves greater reward than one who only played for 100 hours in MB, and did not return to the game at all until last week.

Originally posted by DaveG
The oldbies that have stuck with us can skip the stuff they\'ve done a million times already, and let the new guys go with it.

Well they certainly do deserve to have an easier time of it, at least.

And a permanent method to do that, is a basic function that will be needed as long as PS lives. There will continue to be wipes, migrations, and bugged characters that need to be deleted and rebuilt, because the code will continue to evolve.  There is at least one elegant and simple way to do that, and I have thought of one which will also solve another problem simultaneously.   (PM me for that.)

If there is a technical problem that requires a wipe, before the introduction of crafting, farming, potion-making, armor, shields, hammers or melee weapons, and a temporary fix is needed fast; I propose that the Rings of the Past be expanded, with enhancement automatically increasing  for perhaps every 100 hours logged. This should also be trivial to code.


Yours Truly,

The Dark Lady

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Verrliit
It is very clearly the number of hours logged, that should be rewarded.

It is very clearly and easily exploitable, by logging in and then idling :) How do you propose guarding against this? Is it also a small coincidence that you are listed as one of the individuals with an impressively high amount of hours in-game? I would think that it be self-evident that such hours could be spent (by anyone) doing completely non-RP things. Rewards should be given for this why?

Oh, and:

If they were not intended, then they were a happy accident. Never mind the loud complaints by the tiny few in the PS community, who are either jealous, or worshippers of dull and boring.

Way to go, immediately stuffing those who disagree with you into dark little boxes of insignificance :)

[stfrn]

It is also obvious, that a CB player who has logged 500 or even 3000 hours this year, deserves greater reward than one who only played for 100 hours in MB, and did not return to the game at all until last week.

Would that not be elitism at it\'s worst? Personally, as a player I would expect no rewards for playing for over two years now. I only want for the game to keep going the way it has.
I\'ll say it once more, 400 slash weapons were a horrible mistake and are going to be removed. Weapon quality is never more important then skill, that is a rule.

[r.guppy]

My view on rewords for players is don\'t wont it don\'t need it thanks my reword is playing game, to earn what one has is enough for me i start with nothing and i am happy to work my bleep off getting back to were i was before the wipe, alone the way helping others as best i can.
 

  )

[Suno_Regin]

Originally posted by Verrliit
[ ENTIRE POST ]

Bleh, I can sum up this post in a few seconds. You don\'t want the 400+ slash weapons removed, because without those, you can\'t hit 1000+ damage. It makes things very unrealistic, and people always get 1-hit killed by them, which takes the fun out of dueling.

[Verrliit]

Originally posted by Karyuu

Originally posted by Verrliit
It is very clearly the number of hours logged, that should be rewarded.

It is very clearly and easily exploitable, by logging in and then idling How do you propose guarding against this?

Dropping a player from the server after long inactivity (no motion, no chat generated) is a pretty standard thing.  

If a  player goes to the trouble, just to add an hour to each login, they obviously care a lot about playing, want to continue for a very long time, and to keep something of their effort.  That is a good thing, for PS.

Passion is the whole point, Karyuu.

It does not matter if someone exploits this.

Someone who does that for a hundred logins might get a bit extra?  Who cares? Remember that this is only for the case of a wipe, not for short-term ongoing play.

Originally posted by Karyuu
Is it also a small coincidence that you are listed as one of the individuals with an impressively high amount of hours in-game?

It is no more a coincidence, than the fact that you have a high post count in the forums, Karyuu.  We are both passionately involved and spend a great amount of our time and effort caring about PS.

While I do not believe that I am the best Role-Player that PS has ever seen, I am very passionate about it, and work a lot harder at it, than thousands of other players.

Originally posted by Karyuu
 I would think that it be self-evident that such hours could be spent (by anyone) doing completely non-RP things. Rewards should be given for this why?

Non-RP things are part of the game.  Rewards should be given for playing, for the same reason that you deserve respect in the forums, Karyuu.  

Time and effort has value, regardless of talent or style.

Originally posted by Karyuu
Oh, and:

Originally posted by Verrliit
If they were not intended, then they were a happy accident. Never mind the loud complaints by the tiny few in the PS community, who are either jealous, or worshippers of dull and boring.

Way to go, immediately stuffing those who disagree with you into dark little boxes of insignificance

I only put a name to the boxes.  Those that inhabit them, did so, long before I said a word.


Verrliit

[Xordan]

Xordan says:

\"No rewards\"

People that like to play will carry on playing, without the need for rewards.

My view on rewords for players is don\'t wont it don\'t need it thanks my reword is playing game, to earn what one has is enough for me i start with nothing and i am happy to work my bleep off getting back to were i was before the wipe, alone the way helping others as best i can.

This is what I like to see.  

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Verrliit
It does not matter if someone exploits this.

But you see, it does. It matters if anyone exploits anything - for PS is meant to be a cheat-free zone in any and all ways.

It is no more a coincidence, than the fact that you have a high post count in the forums, Karyuu.  We are both passionately involved and spend a great amount of our time and effort caring about PS.

Ah, but I don\'t expect to get rewarded for it. I don\'t post saying \"Clearly people who spend a lot of time in the forums helping out others and furthering the growth of the community need to be given something in return for their time.\" Whatever I do here is purely volunteered, and frankly it doesn\'t matter whether I spend 100 hours a week contributing something or 5 - it\'s the content of my (and others\') contributions, something that you cannot measure with numbers, nor reward with numbers.

While I do not believe that I am the best Role-Player that PS has ever seen, I am very passionate about it, and work a lot harder at it, than thousands of other players.

And cheers to you for that :)

Non-RP things are part of the game. Rewards should be given for playing, for the same reason that you deserve respect in the forums, Karyuu.  

Non-RP things shouldn\'t be part of the game, and this is what we are striving towards - that everything has an RP reason for being, for existing. It\'s all fine and dandy that you try to give RP reasons for things akin to bugs and tests (such as the insanely high weapons) but you cannot honestly expect them to stick around, being, again, only a test. I also don\'t quite follow the reasoning behind that last statement of yours.

Time and effort has value, regardless of talent or style.

Both matter. Someone could put in time and effort to skill grinding, but we both understand that a person could enrich the community a lot more by doing nothing more than talking to others.

I only put a name to the boxes.  Those that inhabit them, did so, long before I said a word.

Tsk :) I never thought of myself as being part of the tiny few in the PS community, who are either jealous of your weapons, or worshippers of dull and boring. Try not to divide the community into \"us\" and \"them.\"