The Shaded Whisper

[Draklar]

Originally posted by zanzibar
On pencils and colour:  Colour does not exist except as an idea.  Colour only exists in the mind.  What light has is \"Frequency\", not colour.

To one person, a certain frequency inspires a certain colour.  To another person, the same frequency inspires a different colour.  The colour does not objectively exist in the pencil.  It is, literally, in the eye of the beholder.

Different perception of frequency is called colour blindness. Going all technical won\'t make your statement any more true. Use logic instead of fancy words.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Draklar

Originally posted by zanzibar
On pencils and colour:  Colour does not exist except as an idea.  Colour only exists in the mind.  What light has is \"Frequency\", not colour.

To one person, a certain frequency inspires a certain colour.  To another person, the same frequency inspires a different colour.  The colour does not objectively exist in the pencil.  It is, literally, in the eye of the beholder.

Different perception of frequency is called colour blindness. Going all technical won\'t make your statement any more true. Use logic instead of fancy words.

This is not going technical.

This is not using fancy words.

This is not illogical.



Light does not have colour.  Colour only exists in the mind.  Light has frequency, but different people can percieve the same frequency as different colours.  This is a pretty basic concept.

[Sangwa]

I am, by looking at history and basic human psychology.

*laughs*
I guess we\'ll see it then.

[Draklar]

Very nice, zanzibar. You expect discussion to move on by repeating what you said before without adding anything new? Here\'s a quote for you:

some people are born seeing colors differently or not at all; see color blindness

Sangwa: Yeah, go on and laugh.
But you predict that nothing will change because Seperot isn\'t offering his services to evil people only, based on... nothing.
While I base my prediction on history and basic psychology (which is exactly how things are done in marketing and economics).
Very good possition to laugh about anything there..

[Sangwa]

No... I\'m saying I don\'t think this guild will contribute that much to the presence of evil either ways. Because it\'s obvious that you must lack some moral to resort to the kind of services this guild offers. Just because you own a sword it doesn\'t mean you have to kill people with it.

If you told me you are predicting a \"possible future\" then I wouldn\'t be in a position to laugh. But you\'re saying you are a able to \"predict the future.\"
The only way you can take this smile off my face is by actually getting Seperot to fullfil this destiny you foretold.

[Father Sengus]

Hello...

I\'ve been reading most of your discussions (hard to avoid since they are to be found everywhere) and there are some things I don\'t understand.

Draklar said:

I am, by looking at history and basic human psychology.
Mirth is the goody-good guild which opposes all evil-doing and stuff, right? What did they do in the Cabal age, when spying was at its peak? They spied as well. So did Rangers. And the Dark Empire, despise opposing such form of spying at first.

It seems to me that this is an example of bad RP more than anything else. Did all these guilds spy IC or did they infilitrate the enemy guilds with alts? Cause if they didn\'t do it IC, I don\'t see how this would fit in a discussion on good and evil.

Also, maybe it\'s just me, but do these dicussions have to be everywhere? :/ You read about a guild and all of a sudden there\'s this neverending alignment discussion. For people who are just after reading updates about the guild and such, it can be quite annoying. I saw there is a good thread about this in the wish list forum so couldn\'t the discussions be held there?
And if it turns out I\'m the only one being bothered by this, I apologize.

[Sangwa]

Bah, go away. We\'re trying to have some fun here.

People have the right to report stuff to the moderators though, and they have the right to warn us. I guarantee myself and Draklar know how to behave after properly been told how.

Also, this discussion is not about good and evil. It\'s about Draklar\'s psychic powers.

[Father Sengus]

Also, this discussion is not about good and evil. It\'s about Draklar\'s psychic powers.

Oh sorry...I thought it was a  discussion on good and evil, which could have gone a little off-topic. But if it\'s about Draklar\'s psychic powers then it\'s ok I guess

If you\'re having fun then I won\'t stop you. It\'s what playing a game is about after all...

[Draklar]

We\'re discussing how Shadow Whisper could influence the world in case of good vs. evil, actually.

Originally posted by Father Sengus
It seems to me that this is an example of bad RP more than anything else. Did all these guilds spy IC or did they infilitrate the enemy guilds with alts? Cause if they didn\'t do it IC, I don\'t see how this would fit in a discussion on good and evil.

Yes, but that\'s part of my point. At first none of these guilds would do something like that, but once it became a common phenomenon, they just joined it.
\"If someone else does it, I can do it as well\". Plus, there was that factor of mistrust. It seemed better to send a spy to other guild, just to make sure you aren\'t spied on yourself. There was even case of double spy, I think I remember who that was, but I\'ll go shh ;)

Sangwa... Again, what I do to predict future is commonly used in economy. You can make fun of it, but it\'s important part of making any strategic decission. Good luck in guild leading if you lack the ability to do so...

[Father Sengus]

At first none of these guilds would do something like that, but once it became a common phenomenon, they just joined it.

Well I understand why more and more guilds decided to do it, but I still cannot see how it is connected to good and evil. Here\'s how I see it:

Some people who usually RP evil characters decided to start spying with alts, which is an OOC method and thus also bad RP.

Characters in good guilds heard about the spying and decided to take revenge by infiltrating enemy guilds with alts, once again bad RP. So it was not the good characters who decided to use of evil methods...it was bad RP:ers.

Do you understand what I mean?

I\'m not after showing flaws in your example but rather after getting a good example. Maybe the best way to do this is to give another example that involves good RP and where good people make use of evil methods just because they have become common.

Oh and about being tired of these discussions. I think they are interesting but just don\'t like seeing them everywhere. I never meant to make you stop the ones that are already in process but rather not to start new ones everywhere.

[Draklar]

Well, actually no.

1) Alt-spying despise being bad RP, was used as a form of role-playing. So people from good guilds were using it as a form of role-playing as well. And if they just role-played wrongly, then it is simple to assume bad RP will be repeated. Thus example stays correct.

2) People in real life, just like in game have their sets of morals. If we assume alt-spying to be ooc, then it had to do with moral values of the players. Values that were put behind because the phenomenon was becoming very common. Which again proves, that the example stays correct.

2nd point deals with the good vs. evil bit. Players just like characters choose between good and evil.

[Sangwa]

In economy one does not assume to know the future. Else, if something goes wrong, one loses much. Instead, you try to understand the variables that condition the future, in order to be ready for any kind of future.

And you\'re hardly apt to criticize my leadership.

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Sangwa
In economy one does not assume to know the future. Else, if something goes wrong, one loses much.

That would be called taking a risk, which as a matter of fact, is an important part of management. If you take a risk, success means gaining more than if you didn\'t take it. Now whether risk will turn out to be success or failure depends on the ability of planning and predicting customers\' behaviour. That\'s why researches are being launched and models like Spider\'s Web one (which by the way is all about using past to predict the future) created.
If you are good - you gain. Bad - you lose. Or you can decide to stay away from risking, but without risk you aren\'t likely to become better than others.
War is example of such risk. You are doing research on how strong enemy\'s forces are and look into the past to know how enemy does in battles. Then you make a decission - declare war or not. Depending on whether you predict to win or lose.
Woo..! Economics studies prove to be useful \\o/ :P

And I believe as long as I can well describe flaws in someone\'s leadership, I am in position to criticize it. Or do you see any reason that isn\'t a logical fallacy, why it isn\'t so..?

Don\'t think I need to discuss it any further. I explained where my assumptions about Seperot\'s move come from quite well. Now you are free to disagree with them, but laughing it out is just lame.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Draklar
Well, actually no.

1) Alt-spying despise being bad RP, was used as a form of role-playing. So people from good guilds were using it as a form of role-playing as well. And if they just role-played wrongly, then it is simple to assume bad RP will be repeated. Thus example stays correct.

2) People in real life, just like in game have their sets of morals. If we assume alt-spying to be ooc, then it had to do with moral values of the players. Values that were put behind because the phenomenon was becoming very common. Which again proves, that the example stays correct.

2nd point deals with the good vs. evil bit. Players just like characters choose between good and evil.

Alt spying is out of character if your main character is a kran and your spy is an enki.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Draklar
Very nice, zanzibar. You expect discussion to move on by repeating what you said before without adding anything new? Here\'s a quote for you:

some people are born seeing colors differently or not at all; see color blindness

Sangwa: Yeah, go on and laugh.
But you predict that nothing will change because Seperot isn\'t offering his services to evil people only, based on... nothing.
While I base my prediction on history and basic psychology (which is exactly how things are done in marketing and economics).
Very good possition to laugh about anything there..

If almost everyone was colour blind, then people who were born \"normal\" would be the ones percieved as different.  You\'re missing the point.  You said:


\"It\'s like when someone who is colour-blind says that a green pencil is red, the colour of the pencil automatically becomes relative \"

\"Different perception of frequency is called colour blindness. Going all technical won\'t make your statement any more true. Use logic instead of fancy words.\"


You\'re wrong on quite a few levels.  The colour of the pencil was relative to begin with because the colour isn\'t ~in~ the pencil, it\'s ~in~ the observer.  Such is true for all aspects of social reality, even if there\'s concensus on something.  We can all agree on something 100%, but it might still be relative.  And then you went off and said something about technical words and going fancy and repeating myself, which was just silly.  Maybe you should dedicate less of your posts to insults and more of your time to reading what you\'re replying to.  And no, I\'m not disagreeing with you for the heck of it.  I honestly disagree with what you\'re saying.