Guild Size Control

[Sangwa]

I think it\'s very important to have a system that controls guild size.

Why!?
Because this would demotivate mass recruiting guilds that ruin the game for guilds that are not mass recruiters. Check this thread\'s twin sibling.
Plus, in a realistic enviroment, guilds with many members would certainly have a bigger outcome (like companies with many workers).

Here, I\'ll even tell you how. I think there should be a (huge) fee once a guild reaches a certain amount of members.
Check out how I think it should be:

20 Members - 40000 trias;
40 Members - 60000 trias;
60 Members - 80000 trias;
80 Members - 100000 trias;
100 Members - 150000 trias;
Each member above 100 - 20000 trias.

[Nilrem]

I see your purpose Sangwa, but putting fees isn\'t the solution.

You just said, in the other thread, that those guilds are mainly formed by powerlevelers. Even if the fee is high, if they\'re in fact, powerlevelers, money won\'t ever be a problem for them.

What\'s the solution? the solution is fun.
Happily with the current stage of developing, killing an npc is, to say the least, not very challenging (perhaps there\'s a bit of challange to reach the appropiate stats to kill a gladiator, for instance, but, once achieved, there\'s nothing) and even with a complete version, clicking an attack button to defeat a monster computerly controlled will be also not challenging.
The solution resides then, in being able to show that roleplaying is not that it is the way to go, but also the most fun of them all, the one that allows to be less corseted; it can\'t be that hard, after all.

[Sangwa]

That is the utopic solution Nilrem.
The problem is: players are lured with trias and weapons. We don\'t have the oppurtunity to show them roleplaying is fun because they\'re quickly snatched from our hands.

What you mentioned is actually a reason for us to put more effort in ending Mass Recruiting. Players get bored after a while because they don\'t know what PS\'s true fun is.

Maybe its possible to have percentage fees. Everyone in the guild would lose 25% percent of their trias each time the guild earned another 20 members. 50% when they reach 100 and then 12.5% each time a player joined above the 100 count.

That plus the fees I\'ve mentioned. This way maybe they wouldn\'t be able to get 80000 trias to reach 60 players.

This would also be good because it would require the members to be loyal to the guild. Powerlevelers would become annoyed at the fact that their guild leader kept making them lose money, which would lead them to quit and maybe be attracted to the roleplaying community.

Yes, I think that\'s acceptable. I want the Empire to have a large amount of (role)players so these will fall upon me as well.

[Ecolem]

Maybe people can train Guild Management skills to obtain more members. For each rank you obtain the right to 1 more member. And eventually a maximum of 200 I\'d say. Now remember that it takes longer and longer to earn each rank so it makes sense that people would choose there members a lot more wisely. Meaning that the guild would have to work together to earn more members.

I like the idea though Sangwa and i reckon it should be implemented. *Gona poke*

[Sangwa]

That does sound better and less outraging to players.

But I think it should work differently. The guild management skill of a guild should be equal to the skill level of the recruiter members devided by they\'re number. (I can\'t recall the name of this formula.)
And, above level 100 you\'d need 2 levels to recruit one member .

[Nilrem]

I believe more in the teaching/didactive way rather than the one of harassments. Call me idealistic

Still, the point is that both harassing with wipes or implementing fees on forming guilds haven\'t stopped, neither the powerleveling or the mass recruiting.

To drive new players to the real and fun side of PS (rp or learning how to, or even watching how others do) is a matter that has to involve all the community. I saw a nice role of the RM team in that commitment, and I expressed that in another thread, but again, they don\'t have to be alone.

The community has to ask to herself if it really wants more roleplayers, or people willing to learn how to. If the answer is affirmative, and I\'m sure it has to be; then the commitment of each of us, is try to reach that objective; that implies trying not to only tell about the sewers and rat infestation when someone new comes, but a more dedicated effort to show what is the \"right\" way (that, I admit, isn\'t always easy, and it can be exhausting, but that\'s where the community takes part)

And if some \"powerleveler\" or one of the many newcomers that have been lead to a massive mindless npc killing is reading this: Go and hunt for roleplayers, there\'s more reward awaiting than hunting for trepors.

EDIT: I seem to understand (I guess I\'m wrong) that is a necessary requirement that those players leave their guilds in order to be \"spotted\" by the roleplaying community. I fail to see why, are those \"powerlevel\" guilds really so powerful as to blind all of their members?

[Sangwa]

Idealistic.

Most times I stumble upon new players I do my best to get them interested in roleplaying. But not everyone will do that, specially not the people who don\'t assume roleplaying as the most important trait of PS.

Those people need limits to be imposed on them. Plus, it would be a nice new feature. It\'s realistic to have guilds with better or worst managing skills.

I still think there should be something that would handicap powerlevelers though... Like a percentage fee when you reach 50 and 100 members ^^. It\'s also realistic to have a bigger outcome when you have a big guild

Nilrem: You\'re right... Players don\'t need to quit their guild to become roleplayers. Unless their guild has no roleplaying activity at all.
I am concencerned with the fact that other guilds (like my own) get no members, because they\'re stolen without a single thought about character background or role path...
It would also be a good incentivation to prevent powerleveling guilds from existing and luring other members to them.

[joke]Hmm... maybe we should send some roleplay priests to the arenas to convert them all. xD[/joke]

[shorty13]

also, you could make it so a person could not join a guild for like 5 days from character creation.  This means that the person will have a little bit of time to figure out who is who and how to play.  They will get a better idea of who to join.

[Ecolem]

shorty13 that would mean that people who are oldbies and want to create an alt character from scratch would have to wait for 5 days even though he knows how to play...

[Sangwa]

I think shorty\'s idea is really good! And oldbies can wait 5 days ^^.

Or better. If it\'s possible, once an account has its first character created, none of its characters can join a guild for a week
That way players with over a week of experience can create alts who can join guilds.

Hey, I think we\'re building up a nice idea here.

[zanzibar]

Stupid idea.

First, it\'s not a problem.  If a guild is huge, then good for them.

If you have difficuly attracting members, then maybe there\'s something wrong with your guild.

Personally, I think that there should be NO fee to start a guild.  Money comes from having a powerful character (powerlevelling), but guilds are supposed to help RP.  It makes no sense.


Edit:  Further, it\'s unrealistic.

[zorbels]

Originally posted by Sangwa
This would also be good because it would require the members to be loyal to the guild. Powerlevelers would become annoyed at the fact that their guild leader kept making them lose money, which would lead them to quit and maybe be attracted to the roleplaying community.

I have always thought it was to easy to make a guild. A newbie comes into planeshift, hacks n slashes a bit, maybe learns a little role play and then shrugs and thinks \"oh well, might as well start a guild because I have the money and I am bored. This may not be the case for everyone but I have seen it alot.

I agree Sangwa with your idea, it would make people think twice about starting up a guild, and make it known who the real guilds in Yliakum are. If we are going for realisim in Ps to then this helps it a bit more, you cannot just open a business in real life for free, so why should starting a guild be easy? Plus I like the idea that people might just stay loyal to their guilds.

[Edit] I also like shorty13 idea and Sangwa\'s add on to the idea!

[Cyl]

Originally posted by zanzibar
Edit:  Further, it\'s unrealistic.

Care to explain?

In reality, if you wanted to create a corporation, you would have to pay for creation, for officialty, for everything...

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Cyl

Originally posted by zanzibar
Edit:  Further, it\'s unrealistic.

Care to explain?

In reality, if you wanted to create a corporation, you would have to pay for creation, for officialty, for everything...

This isn\'t a corporation.  It\'s a guild.  I think that it should be free to make them, since at its least it\'s the equivalent of wearing a pin.

[goland]

Originally posted by zanzibar
Money comes from having a powerful character (powerlevelling), but guilds are supposed to help RP.  It makes no sense.

Exactly.  Introducing skills to be mastered to form a guild will just promote powerleveling in a different way.  Instead of constantly hacking and slashing the powerlevelers will be training their guild skill so they can make that huge guild.  It wouldn\'t fix anything.  The people who spend their time RPing instead of leveling will still have a hard time recruiting and the powerlevelers will still have large numbers.

Personally, I think the problem is inherent in the game somewhat.

When you\'re a newbie and create a character you end up in this big confusing city.  You hear it all day from newbies: \'Where do I go?\' \'What do I do?\'.  They\'re told to go to the sewers to hack and slash things to get money.  

BUT WAIT.  You guys are saying the game is about RPing.  Why is it that the first thing the newbies have to do is fight rats to get money just to have simple weapons or even buy a pickaxe to mine with?

The problem is, there are quests to do but newbies don\'t get into doing quests until they\'ve already gotten into the hacking and slashing bit.  Some players make the transition to RPing and others stay with the hacking and slashing.

Trying to lure someone away from hackign and slashing, which their comfortable with, to RPing, which they\'re not so used to, makes things more difficult than they have to be.  If the game is about RPing then RPing should be stressed heavily for newbies.  They should have to RP in order to get started, not hack and slash.

I propose that instead of worrying about guild sizes we cut the problem down at the roots.

Upon starting the game, newbies should be presented overwhelmingly with the need to do RPing.  Whether this is through a quest or whatever.  I believe that this would be a step forward to grooming players for RPing so that they can control guilds themselves without the need for any enforcement from game mechanics.