Guild Size Control

[Induane]

I\'ve thought about this problem and what we need is a self motivating way for people to keep their guilds active.  I think it would be prudent for the guild leader to be constantly generating revenue from its active players. Inactive players would reverse this process.  I\'d just call it guild revinue - and have it automatic.  

10 trias a day for each member who is considered \"active\"  Different accounts with the same players should not count - i.e. one player per internet connection.  This would help prevent cheating.

For every member considered inactive the guild revinue would be docked -15 trias per day.  

From there there are two ways to go.  Initially I thought that a guild should never be generating negative revinue - just not getting any at all.  This would make it profitable to have active players.  Then I thought of another angle which is that it indeed does take away money from the guild. (not sure if all this money is going to the guild leader or to a guild bank account.. I\'ll assume guild leader for now.)  If a guild leader has so many inactive memers that he doesn\'t remove he will start to lose money.  Eventually he will be forced to try to make money to keep the guild alive - fine at first but no one is going to keep that up forever. They will either remove the inactive members or the guild will plunge into debt.  Upon reaching a certain level of debt the guild would automatically disband and would need to be recreated - fee and all.


Stupid idea?

lol let me know.

[Xordan]

Induane\'s idea isn\'t that bad. I\'ve already got a whole guild redesign written up, so I might add something like that to it. I can think of a good rp reason for it that fits into my idea as well. I\'ll carry on reading and see what other people think.

[Father Sengus]

I haven\'t thought very much about this idea yet but as I see it now, it looks really nice Induane.
Though there will be some obvious consequences that need to be taken into account.
First off, a lot more guilds will be created since a lot of people will think that they have what it takes to make a profit out of it. Many of them will probably fail but it won\'t stop these new guilds from taking recruits away from other RP oriented guilds. So I don\'t thinkthat problem will be solved without making some modifications to the current idea.

Also:

They will either remove the inactive members or the guild will plunge into debt. Upon reaching a certain level of debt the guild would automatically disband and would need to be recreated - fee and all.

Like you said, guild leaders will recruit and then kick out inactive members when times get rough. Hopefully, they will have learned a lesson and avoid mass-recruiting the next time they create a guild.
But in the learning process, the guild leader will have caused many players to go inactive and maybe even leave the game. I know that people come and go...but still.
You understand what I mean?

Also, a litte response to Zanzibar\'s:

However, if it\'s just powerlevellers who are \"succumbing\" to these mass recruiting guilds, then what\'s the loss?\"

Though I believe both Sangwa and Karyuu made good replies to this already, some things are worth being repeated.
It is nost powerlevelers that are succumbing, but just players with the potential to become RP:ers. It is first when they\'ve \"succumbed\" that they have a big chance to become powerlevelers...

[Nikodemus]

I haven\'t read through the whole topic, simpl because of lack of time, but i have few things to comment.
We wan\'t game where people roleplay, so we wonder how develop it to achieve our goal. But before that we should think in what environment can we rp. We need world ruled by logical laws. Maybe rather semi logical in some ways, because magic is one of these things which you can\'t really explain with current knowledge which we have from real world.
A world where we know what may possibly happen after we cross a road. Because we can for example create a world where everytime you cross a road, you got hit with broken jar . It all depends where you put the border of what we consider a semi logical world.
A world where i wan\'t to roleplay don\'t inlcude most of suggestions of this topic, if things like these will be included, i will most likely stop playing because Yliakum won\'t be for me environment where i can roleplay.

Suggestions like recent ageing or this, another fees for guilds are things which are supposed to serve rp, but in the wrong way. This are ooc solutions, because they were made by ooc needs. IC is what your character do and OOC is what you do.

You can\'t make world where your char can live if you define it by OOC rules and not IC.

[Father Sengus]

You can\'t make world where your char can live if you define it by OOC rules and not IC.

There are lots of OOC rules already, and just like you don\'t let them bother you, you shouldn\'t let this one bother you either. We don\'t have to come up with an RP rule to why a guy called \"Bigass Killer\" gets his name changed. It bothers RP and therefore an OOC rule is created.

Also, unlike many OOC rules, this one could be given a good RP explanation. Just one from the top of my head.

\"After a crisis meeting aiming to put an end to the recent guildwars, Our Octarch and the Vigesimi have decided to put a tax on guilds based on their member count. This is the first step in a process of disarming the guilds and minimising the damage caused by these conflicts.\"

It\'s nothing like trying to explain a name change or whatever...

[Ecolem]

Originally posted by Waylander .
But the ideas in here,  guild management skill is a skill and what makes you think the powerlevelers won\'t powerlevel that?

The fees, as has been noted before, would also just help the powerlevelers because they gain a lot of tria while powerleveling.

Neither of these will do anything more than limit the size of roleplaying guilds...

What your saying is inevitable. Everything can be \'power leveled\'. But an idea could be to space it out, only allow 1 rank per Planeshift day (i assume that\'s a few hours) or better still per real day.

Now people, it doesn\'t make sense for people to wait 5 days or whatever to join a guild. People get completely lost and if i were to wait just 2 or 3 days it would get on my nerves having to ask the help channel every two seconds.

You want people to start to Role Play right away yes? Then how is waiting days for a newb going to help him. It wont. In fact i reckon it would lead to the small few who get fed up of not being a part of anything and leave.

Remember if people want to power level, that\'s there choice. It happens it EVERY game and its impossible to stop unless PS have a very good system in place. And i wouldn\'t count on it being implemented anytime soon.

[Nikodemus]

Originally posted by Father Sengus
There are lots of OOC rules already, and just like you don\'t let them bother you, you shouldn\'t let this one bother you either. We don\'t have to come up with an RP rule to why a guy called \"Bigass Killer\" gets his name changed. It bothers RP and therefore an OOC rule is created.

Yea, just like all the other so called MMORPGs... But because of some weird reason i play so unfinished planeshift instead of other much more finished products.

As i told every ooc interferece, make the semi logical factor in the world wider. The wider it gets the more people may feal the place which they called home once, is no more and they go away. Others will come instead of them, but in my opinion the type of people who come will be less valuable.

Originally posted by Father Sengus
Also, unlike many OOC rules, this one could be given a good RP explanation. Just one from the top of my head.

\"After a crisis meeting aiming to put an end to the recent guildwars, Our Octarch and the Vigesimi have decided to put a tax on guilds based on their member count. This is the first step in a process of disarming the guilds and minimising the damage caused by these conflicts.\"

And it is the thing which should be base of the whole idea.
Unfortunately the rp reason which you have given, lack connection with the game events. I know you gave it as example, but i just couldn\'t accept it as fully valid explanation.
It is just saddening that people sugesting things which reason is ooc, don\'t really try to come with fully proper rp explanation.
And it is exactly what is happening in all MMORPGs what i heard of a bit more and it is why i don\'t treat them as games where i can RP.
I don\'t wan\'t PS to be such game, because i play PS only because we can RP here a lot more than in some other MMORPG.


EDIT I like the idea that a person ask to join a guild instead of being asked. I believe that would make more people wonder to which guild they want belong instead random invitations.
Guild leaders and people permitted to accept invitations would have to to put more efford on talking to the candidate.
More roleplayers would join rp guilds and powerlevelers will join always the same guilds.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Sangwa
Mass Recruiting guilds have few roleplayers and as such they will not defend hydlaa against anything... maybe they\'ll even endager it by driving monsters to extincti

I mean that a mass recruiting guild one day might form in order to defend Hydlaa.

Originally posted by Sangwa
The currrent idea is to have a Guild Management skill (which is realistic because different people have different managing skills)

That\'s an absolutely horrible idea.  Skills like that should be naturalistic in nature.  If the player is good at it, then the character will be good at it.  Why?  Because it\'s human interaction.  It\'s your personality, and your ability to organize and lead.  You can\'t just express something like that with a stat!

Further, it\'s saying that if you want to RP, you have to (power) level up your character.  Is that a good thing?

Originally posted by Sangwa and, what I think will work better, a feature that doesn\'t allow new accounts\' characters to join a guild until they\'ve been ingame time enough.

I like that idea.

[Karyuu]

*nod* Adding yet another skill to train in hopes of stopping powerlevelers and massrecruiters seems counterproductive.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Karyuu
*nod* Adding yet another skill to train in hopes of stopping powerlevelers and massrecruiters seems counterproductive.

Powerlevelers simply cannot be stopped!  The only way to do it is to get rid of ALL skill advancement period.  And even then, there will STILL be people who work with the same mentality.  Memorizing the best spawn sites, sharing the best shortcuts, having the best weapons, spending most of the time spawn camping as opposed to interacting with other players.

It simply cannot be done, and people should stop caring.

Instead:

Make a game which is fun for the role-players!  Don\'t worry about how other people will abuse the game, as long as they aren\'t doing it in a way that hurts others.  And to you players?  Don\'t worry if someone is more powerful than you!  It isn\'t important, and there\'s no reason that such a thing should threaten your enjoyment of the game.

[goland]

All that applying a \"guild tax\" would do to big guilds is slow the powerlevelers temporarily and shut the roleplayers out almost completely.  It does nothing to promote RP.

Creating a waiting period for new characters would allow newcomers to see the guilds in the game and not just join the first guild they see.  This is good for guilds who actually have something to offer players...but not good for the ones who don\'t.  

Newcomers can survive without joining a guild the first few days and it will let them learn things for themselves and appreciate things more.

I don\'t know why guild leaders are so focused on snatching up newcomers anyway.  Maybe it\'s because they\'re easy to recruit?  A good guild would be able to convince players with more experience to switch to their guild.

[Hellios]

Originally posted by goland
I don\'t know why guild leaders are so focused on snatching up newcomers anyway.  Maybe it\'s because they\'re easy to recruit?  A good guild would be able to convince players with more experience to switch to their guild.

when i started my first guild ever, i was maybe 3 weeks into the game. I didnt really enjoy RPing like i do now,all i cared about was lvling(thankfully not anymore) but the reason i recruited newcomers is because i wanted to train then so they could become better players, not because i wanted 100 members. I taught them to hunt for hides and make trias to buy a weapon and i showed them how to ask other players IC for help beyond my teachings.Eventually i got bored and left PS for a couple months. but now ive been back i havnt lvled 1 lvl, all i do IG is work on the new guild my partner and i started and RP with other players standing around.

[goland]

Originally posted by Hellios

Originally posted by goland
I don\'t know why guild leaders are so focused on snatching up newcomers anyway.  Maybe it\'s because they\'re easy to recruit?  A good guild would be able to convince players with more experience to switch to their guild.

when i started my first guild ever, i was maybe 3 weeks into the game. I didnt really enjoy RPing like i do now,all i cared about was lvling(thankfully not anymore) but the reason i recruited newcomers is because i wanted to train then so they could become better players, not because i wanted 100 members. I taught them to hunt for hides and make trias to buy a weapon and i showed them how to ask other players IC for help beyond my teachings.Eventually i got bored and left PS for a couple months. but now ive been back i havnt lvled 1 lvl, all i do IG is work on the new guild my partner and i started and RP with other players standing around.

First off, it\'s great to see that you came back and enjoy RPing.  It\'s too bad you left in the first place though.

You\'re saying you were a powerleveler, recruited newcomers to teach them how to be \'better players\', but didn\'t care about RPing at all?  I don\'t see how teaching newcomers only to hack and slash, level, and get strong weapons is much of a service towards the RPing community.  So are you agreeing with what I said?

The point is, now you want to RP.  You said you haven\'t leveled at all and concentrate on your guild.  Guild taxes, guild management skills, and other things like that wouldn\'t allow you to do this.  This is a perfect example of why adding these restrictions to guilds are the enemy of RPing.  

Edit: You\'d be spending too much time scrounging for money and training your guild management skill than you should be if all you want to do is RP.

[Ecolem]

Originally posted by zanzibar

Originally posted by Sangwa
The currrent idea is to have a Guild Management skill (which is realistic because different people have different managing skills)

That\'s an absolutely horrible idea.  Skills like that should be naturalistic in nature.  If the player is good at it, then the character will be good at it.  Why?  Because it\'s human interaction.  It\'s your personality, and your ability to organize and lead.  You can\'t just express something like that with a stat!

Further, it\'s saying that if you want to RP, you have to (power) level up your character.  Is that a good thing?

Ehh am i like being ignored here?

First of all the Guild Management skill was my idea, why are you quoting him?  

Second you and Karyuu seem to have this Role Playing business WAY over the top. You guys need to relax with the RP...not everyone likes it!
So give people a chance to express what they want and stop dictating saying that RP is the way to do EVERYTHING cause by the sounds of it all you guys wanna do is RP. Might as well have a game with out anything but a chat box.

I\'m not saying that i dont like RP, i should be setting an example but your giving imho really stupid (repetetive) excuses to ideas that are very good (not only mine).

[Drey]

Second you and Karyuu seem to have this Role Playing business WAY over the top. You guys need to relax with the RP...not everyone likes it!

PlaneShift is all about RP.

Also just quickly skimming over what was written I saw mentions of things like fees or taxes, but as I see it the powerlevelers/massrecruiters are likely to be the ones with heeps of tria.