Author Topic: Your 3 most hated THINGS  (Read 19548 times)

zanzibar

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« Reply #210 on: April 09, 2006, 06:15:15 pm »
I oppose the meat industry not because it hurts animals, but because it is a danger to humanity -- and all of humanity, not just people who eat meat.
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.

lanser

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« Reply #211 on: April 09, 2006, 07:47:54 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by zanzibar
I oppose the meat industry not because it hurts animals, but because it is a danger to humanity -- and all of humanity, not just people who eat meat.


A pretty major statement to make, never really thought of myself as a danger to humanity. Care to elaborate?
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zanzibar

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« Reply #212 on: April 09, 2006, 09:07:25 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by lanser
Quote
Originally posted by zanzibar
I oppose the meat industry not because it hurts animals, but because it is a danger to humanity -- and all of humanity, not just people who eat meat.


A pretty major statement to make, never really thought of myself as a danger to humanity. Care to elaborate?




It\'s not you, it\'s your actions.

Is the purpose here to understand eachother\'s position, or is it to convince eachother that the other is right?  If we debate it, I\'m sure we\'ll go back and forth with good points but I doubt that we\'ll change our minds about anything.

Fact:  Certain practices of the meat industry hurt the environment, and this has consequences for human health and activity on the planet.

Fact:  The way people consume meat and diary products puts added strain on the healthcare system.

Fact:  Certain diseases such as mad cow disease and the bird flus are direct consquences of certain practices in the meat industry.

Fact:  Certain practices within the meat industry are cruel to animals, when we devalue life we devalue it not only for animals, but for ourselves as well.

That\'s the short list.
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StarsAndBars_1018

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« Reply #213 on: April 09, 2006, 10:27:21 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by zanzibar
but because it is a danger to humanity -- and all of humanity, not just people who eat meat.


ROTFLMWFAO

THIS guy, ladies and gentlemen, is the one who chastises me for \"refusing to make sense.\"

I wash my hands of this thread.

Zanzibar: Take yourself, your radical ideology, the bong pipe which I\'m betting you own. . .and GROW UP.


« Last Edit: April 09, 2006, 10:31:55 pm by StarsAndBars_1018 »
#43: Choose and judge your leaders, also called guardians, thus: Those who seek always to limit the power of government are of good heart and conscience. Those who seek to expand the power of government are base tyrants.

zanzibar

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« Reply #214 on: April 09, 2006, 10:49:42 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by StarsAndBars_1018
Quote
Originally posted by zanzibar
but because it is a danger to humanity -- and all of humanity, not just people who eat meat.


ROTFLMWFAO

THIS guy, ladies and gentlemen, is the one who chastises me for \"refusing to make sense.\"

I wash my hands of this thread.

Zanzibar: Take yourself, your radical ideology, the bong pipe which I\'m betting you own. . .and GROW UP.







\"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.\"
Friedrich Nietzsche


I said you were making no sense because the grammar of your posts was so bad that I couldn\'t understand what you were trying to say.  That\'s very different from disagreeing with your position.  And no, my \"ideology\" is not radical, even if it is new to you.
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Immaturity is FTW.

Cyl

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« Reply #215 on: April 09, 2006, 10:54:56 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by StarsAndBars_1018
Quote
Originally posted by zanzibar
but because it is a danger to humanity -- and all of humanity, not just people who eat meat.


ROTFLMWFAO

THIS guy, ladies and gentlemen, is the one who chastises me for \"refusing to make sense.\"

I wash my hands of this thread.

Zanzibar: Take yourself, your radical ideology, the bong pipe which I\'m betting you own. . .and GROW UP.


You do realise that you are acting infantile, not him.

While I dont agree with him on one point or the other, I am forced to agree with him on others, as they make more sense than my prior opinion.

Some practices (like the enormous keeping of livestock (for instance the ammount of cattle in americs) have _significant_ impact on the enviroment. Some others are perfect playground for diseases and viruses.

However there are, undoubtely less obvious, issues with pure vegetarian diet to, as to strong dependency on vegetables and fruits might turn out to be disastrous if there is a (more or less global, or at least continental) Funghi epidemia, as well as the fact that the human bowels tend to need a certain ammount of meat.

Out of my point of view balance is very important for the human diet. A bit meat, some vegetables, fruits. The (not to recent) junk food boom is something not only unhealthy but bad for the enviroment.

However, an absolutely contraproductive (and plain stupid) tendency is, that a (not to small) percentage of the meat that could be gotten from a piece of livestock is oftenly simply dumped for being \"inferior\". Bowels and inteties. It seems that a not to small percentage of the people tend to only buy/use the \"good\" meat (meaning muscle mass and partially fat) while refusing to eat the formerly mentioned\"inferior\" meat, just because it is \"Ewwwwww\".

Quote
Originally posted by StarsAndBars_1018
Also, I wonder what you have against people who dislike a company that has done every possible thing to earn hate, and then some?  


Care to explain?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2006, 10:58:44 pm by Cyl »
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lanser

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« Reply #216 on: April 10, 2006, 08:17:23 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by zanzibar

It\'s not you, it\'s your actions.

Is the purpose here to understand each other\'s position, or is it to convince eachother that the other is right?  If we debate it, I\'m sure we\'ll go back and forth with good points but I doubt that we\'ll change our minds about anything.

 That is one point we can almost certainly agree on

Quote

Fact:  Certain practices of the meat industry hurt the environment, and this has consequences for human health and activity on the planet.

I also agree in principle with this point too, intensive farming of cattle produces more CO2 emmissions than cars


Quote

Fact:  The way people consume meat and diary products puts added strain on the healthcare system.


Sorry but for every expert you can bring for this  I can find one of the opposite opinion and probably more

Quote

Fact:  Certain diseases such as mad cow disease and the bird flus are direct consquences of certain practices in the meat industry.


Mad cow disease or Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy is due to the practice of feeding animal by products back into the food chain that has been going on for centuries, and the human version CJD has been known for decades before it was identified in cattle. Avian flu is mostly prevented within intensive units it tends to prevail in the small backyards of asia with a few dozen birds running almost wild.

Quote

Fact:  Certain practices within the meat industry are cruel to animals, when we devalue life we devalue it not only for animals, but for ourselves as well.


Sorry but the very last thing the industry wants is to be cruel. Cruelty equals stressed animals which results in poor quality unedible, unsaleable meat.


[/QUOTE]

@ StarsAndBars_1018
I used to own a bong pipe and as you can see am diametrically opposed to Zanzibars point of view
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Robinmagus

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« Reply #217 on: April 10, 2006, 08:22:59 pm »
My 3 most hated things:

1. Really long posts with zanz all over them which I have no time to read.

2.Soy milk

3. cats

\\o/
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Valbrandr

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« Reply #218 on: April 10, 2006, 08:44:37 pm »
Quote
Mad cow disease or Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy is due to the practice of feeding animal by products back into the food chain that has been going on for centuries, and the human version CJD has been known for decades before it was identified in cattle. Avian flu is mostly prevented within intensive units it tends to prevail in the small backyards of asia with a few dozen birds running almost wild.


Your right but I just wanted to elaborate if I can.  Mad Cow disease is from feeding cow to cows.  As he mentioned about CJD which has effected some tribes in Africa and other places where people used to be cannibals.  Being cannibalistic seems to greater the chances of mutations in a specific species genes.  But from what I understand, the practice of feeding cow to cows is over.  Now pig is feed to cows and cow to pigs.  

And as for all of Zanz \"Facts\"... those are not facts... just statements with nothing to back them up in the same post.  Now maybe you can get some valid sources... but not to backup all of your claims.

Quote
Fact: The way people consume meat and diary products puts added strain on the healthcare system.


:P

Induane

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« Reply #219 on: April 10, 2006, 08:54:41 pm »
Quote
Fact #1: Certain practices of the meat industry hurt the environment, and this has consequences for human health and activity on the planet.

Fact #2: The way people consume meat and diary products puts added strain on the healthcare system.

Fact #3: Certain diseases such as mad cow disease and the bird flus are direct consquences of certain practices in the meat industry.

Fact #4: Certain practices within the meat industry are cruel to animals, when we devalue life we devalue it not only for animals, but for ourselves as well.


I\'ve numbered  the \"Facts\" for easier referencing.

Sometimes a list of facts is easily understood, other times more information is needed.  I\'m not looking for sources, cited in MLA format, or anything but I fail to see how all of these things are \"Facts\".

Lets start with fact #1.  Seems pretty straightforeward and I can\'t really disagree.  The meat industry does harm the environment, which in turn has consequences that are widespread.  However, the agriculture industry is just as, or more harmful.  To keep our food free of insects and other organisms, we spray millions of gallons of environmentally harmful pesticides on our crops, which runoff into streams, and eventually the ocean.  Some of this is even blamed for the deaths of certain coral reefs, species extinction, and drinking water contamination leading to birth defects and mental disorders in humans.


Fact #2 - I just want more information.  I\'m not saying right or wrong, but what do you mean exactly?  How does it affect the health care system more say pure vegitarianism, which can be harmful to some people?  What exactly is the issue with the \"way\" we\'re eating? Is it ammount/rate of consumption, or something else?

Fact #3 The practices that led to mad cow disease are now well under control.  We no longer feed dead cows to cows or dead pigs to pigs, thus eliminating the major way it spread.  This practice is long obsolete.  As for bird flu, I wasn\'t even aware that it was a prionic disease.  For it to be meat practices that are causing it it would have to be, because properly prepared meat kills bacteria due to the high heat.  Prions are a different sort of disease causing entity, and thus are subject to different conditions for transmision and control.

Fact #4 is really an opinion not a fact.  It is only a fact as far as yourself is concerned, and no matter how wholeheartedly you believe it, this does not make it a fact.  Still though, regulations are getting harsher as to animal cruelty, and there are more and more humane ways of putting the animals down now.  I know an autistic person who\'s entire job is running the corrals and helping them design animal friendlier slaughterhouses.   Also, how un-cruel is shooting a frightened running animal with an arrow, bow, or spear, spilling its blood till it collapses exhausted and bleeding only to be killed later by another arrow or by a rock to the head?  Hunting isn\'t pretty either, but what do animals do to each other in the wild?  Many high level predators begin consuming their prey before they are even completely dead.  Others simply hunt in gruesome fashion.  Others eat the children of their competition.  My point is really that humans are animals as well, and the animal kingdom is full of ruthless cruel predators, and violence in general.  Survival of the fittest is a term that has no bearing on the human race anymore, and as such when we witness it, it seems needlessly cruel to us.

Sadly, the people who are so extremely concerned for animals, while nice sounding, shows just how out of touch people are with nature.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2006, 08:56:48 pm by Induane »

Valbrandr

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« Reply #220 on: April 10, 2006, 09:03:47 pm »
*Points up

The only part I disagree with is a bit of fact 4.  It sounds like you are making an excuse for humans to do this/ act in this manner.  But as to nearly everything else.. ditto

Induane

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« Reply #221 on: April 10, 2006, 09:14:29 pm »
I wasn\'t making an excuse, only trying to place the current state of events into perspective with the natural violence of nature, and to show that we are a part of that as well.  You can\'t use that to justify actions, but you can use it as a reference to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

lanser

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« Reply #222 on: April 10, 2006, 09:19:12 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Valbrandr
 Mad Cow disease is from feeding cow to cows.


not strictly true the main source is believed to be from scabies infected sheep by-products



Quote

The only part I disagree with is a bit of fact 4. It sounds like you are making an excuse for humans to do this/ act in this manner. But as to nearly everything else.. ditto

If you meant my answer to fact 4 I can supply chemical and physiological evidence to back up my claim here is one link here
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Robinmagus

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« Reply #223 on: April 10, 2006, 09:20:13 pm »
Quote
Fact #4 is really an opinion not a fact. It is only a fact as far as yourself is concerned, and no matter how wholeheartedly you believe it, this does not make it a fact. Still though, regulations are getting harsher as to animal cruelty, and there are more and more humane ways of putting the animals down now. I know an autistic person who\'s entire job is running the corrals and helping them design animal friendlier slaughterhouses. Also, how un-cruel is shooting a frightened running animal with an arrow, bow, or spear, spilling its blood till it collapses exhausted and bleeding only to be killed later by another arrow or by a rock to the head? Hunting isn\'t pretty either, but what do animals do to each other in the wild? Many high level predators begin consuming their prey before they are even completely dead. Others simply hunt in gruesome fashion. Others eat the children of their competition. My point is really that humans are animals as well, and the animal kingdom is full of ruthless cruel predators, and violence in general. Survival of the fittest is a term that has no bearing on the human race anymore, and as such when we witness it, it seems needlessly cruel to us.


indy, baby! That\'s gold! I hate how people think that we\'re not part of nature. If you break it down, we\'re also just animals, who are meant to take part in the violence of nature to survive and keep the cycle going..
But I also agree with the other side, cause we are overdoing it...alot. I mean come on! Feeding cows to cows?! Nice...
« Last Edit: April 10, 2006, 09:21:50 pm by Robinmagus »
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Valbrandr

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« Reply #224 on: April 10, 2006, 09:25:57 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by lanser
Quote
Originally posted by Valbrandr
 Mad Cow disease is from feeding cow to cows.


not strictly true the main source is believed to be from scabies infected sheep by-products



Quote

The only part I disagree with is a bit of fact 4. It sounds like you are making an excuse for humans to do this/ act in this manner. But as to nearly everything else.. ditto

If you meant my answer to fact 4 I can supply chemical and physiological evidence to back up my claim here is one link here



Hmm I watched a documentary on the discovery channel.. and that was the given reason.. but if you have a link of information proving it can from sheep then I will have a look.  and the second part was a direct reply to Induanes post right above it :P.