Author Topic: The DR (for RPers only)  (Read 6099 times)

sardit

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Re: The DR (for RPers only)
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2006, 10:15:34 am »
If i'm not mistaken there is a bit in the settings / future developement part of the site stating that "Powerfull wizzards are capable of entering and leaving the death realm without actually dying"

To me that clearly states that the Deathrealm is an other world ( like roman mythology, where some dude walks into the deathrealm to get his beloved back, and is allowed to do so if he can leave it without looking back once. He gets out but at the entrance looks back and loses her forever.

The idea that you can return from the death is not very uncommon, in PS its just a fact aswell. If players would simply stop making jokes about it. Taking revenge on others soon after death or using it as a shortcut there really isn't a problem with it. I don't think that the mechanics of the DR need to change in order to achieve this. Simply look at all the players posting here, if we all roleplay the deathrealm a bit more seriousely and show the new players how to do so aswell the problem is solved

Something like this would solve the problem of an accidental encounter after a death.

Char 1 : Soo you're back from the death again? Care to take another journey there?

Edit : // does this make sence at all?
Char 2 : Please no ser, i still have the shivers of the dreaded place,  If you don't mind i'll just be on my way enjoying the blissfull light of the azure sun on my body again. My bones are still cold from that cold and murky place.
Char 1 : So you've learned your lesson then? You finally see killing dwarves is a crime and will leave them alone
Char 2 : I can't promiss that, but for now i will consider the ordeal i put them through.
Char 2 grins " though i do like the pain and sorrow it might cause them "
Char 1 : Be gone fool, before i slay you again !
Char 2 bows politely, " by your leave ser "

If both players simply gloss over the short amount of time that goes between it then it doesn't ruin the atmosphere at all. You could always state as a character that the amount of time you spent there felt like years, the dust in your mouth, lack of water and sun and all. Who is to say how long YOU experienced your time there? It could be very plausible that time moves around diffentely in both realms. Just as long as a player doesn't mess it up deliberately you can always roleplay a fix to a situation. As soon as you go barging in on players completely ignoring the whole deathrealm though, then you're ruining the whole game for others.


Ralas

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Re: The DR (for RPers only)
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2006, 06:10:52 am »
I don't think you're taking the DR nearly seriously enough.

Quote

Char 1 : Soo you're back from the death again? Care to take another journey there?


And so on.  For PS to be worthwhile, our characters must have a lasting fear of death.  Extreme situations in which it is overcomeable may be acceptable, as discussed before, but the character in your example merely wander back out of the DR.  This doesn't work.

<.< And it was Greek Mythology first... 
Yliakum, a really big crystal. These are the voyages of the Explorers Guild.  Its ongoing mission: to explore strange new maps, to seek out new life and new NPCs.  To boldly glitch where no one has glitched before.

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Peacer

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Re: The DR (for RPers only)
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2006, 04:51:11 pm »
If i'm not mistaken there is a bit in the settings / future developement part of the site stating that "Powerfull wizzards are capable of entering and leaving the death realm without actually dying"

funny, peacer did that sometime, but that was near the nolthrir spawning point where he met someone he would like to train dark way with and took that person to dr with him, the cold place meant nothing because he was with this special person :P
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Alhana

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Re: The DR (for RPers only)
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2006, 01:51:55 am »
When I did a role-play with Alhana, that was her home.

Well, not so much as to say a home... more of a domain she resides within along side the other far greater beings and evils than herself.


Zorbels knew Alhana was evil and I had something to role-play with and be afraid of.

Boo!... did I scare ya?
Who knows what tomorrow may bring :devil:



Now that she is not in planeshift allot .... I really have nothing I can role-play out.

Alhana was always about... in one form or another ;D.  She travels within you now as she does with all whom have been in contact with her.
Things just kinda died within that RP and I think its fair to say it was time for something new for both our characters.
As I said before... you never know who you are speaking too... the next time your talking to a stranger, ask yourself... could this be her?! :devil: besides, she has no reason to bother you... for now.... MHAHAHAHAHHAH!!!!

I love the Deathrealm which is why I spend so much time there.  Its somewhere you can think and absorb all around you, including the atmosphere.  It fuels my desire to make Alhana all she can be.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2006, 01:53:42 am by Alhana »

Nilrem

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Re: The DR (for RPers only)
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2006, 03:38:52 pm »
Nice topic title, I wonder if the "for Rpers only" part really prevented anyone from posting in here. I guess not, or at least, not anymore  :devil:

I'll try to express ideas about the DR, at a low rate.

The first thing, that I think, we've to wonder about is:

Why do we have a Death Realm?

I'll try to express my view on why the game has a place such as the "Death Realm".
When you design a game, even if it's with a fantasy background, you want it to look somewhat realistic. It adds to its consistency, and looks better finished. In that sense, if you implement fighting, or falling, is reasonable to give those actions a health penalty if things go wrong.
So, for the sake of realism, when a monster hits your char, it has to be somewhat reflected (loss of health points) and when you fall from a height, the same happens. Otherwise, it would all be considered a joke, so that method is adopted, I'd say, by all games.

What happens with this? There's a moment when the health points end. At that moment, again for the sake of realism, you've to decide what to do with the char the player's playing. You've the option of showing a screen saying "Game Over" and force the player to start all over again. Needless to say, that would not be very liked by almost any player, so noone adopts this solution (and even if that was the team desire, it would be bad to apply it right now, considering that lots of deads can happen merely for in game bugs, due to an early stage of development) commonly, you've to give the player another chance. It's how it has to be. You'd knock the char down, and make it stay there, not moving for a certain amount of time, but that would be very boring for the player and possibly noone would like that solution. Commonly, another place is created. A place where you teleport all chars that have died, and where you allow the player to return to the normal world. The playing ground.

The origin of the death realm is, then, entirely OOC.
Currently, I've seen lots of efforts to "justify" the DR from an IC perspective. Make no mistake, it's always harder to fit into any background something that was borned with only OOC reasons, than anything that was invented purely from imagination.
I've seen too, too many efforts to empower the DR presence,  making it larger, crowding it with NPC, even imaginating battles between both "realms"...

Planeshift originality doesn't reside in it's Death Realm. But in it's real world, Yliakum. The only world that really comes from imagination, with a purely imagination origin, and not imposed by the fact that a game is being created. Let's all focus then on empowering that world, the unique world that the game is offering to us, there is where the excitement has to be, there is where life has to be. It would certainly be a pitty, that, with the effort of us all, a "world" whose origins are purely OOC, overpasses in excitement and thrill, the one that comes with the original, primary idea, the one thanks to whom all the other things exist.

[I think the post is currently lenghty enough, so I'll leave it be now. If there are replies, I'll try to keep adding my points after them. If there aren't I'll try to progressively edit this post, so all ideas are expressed. Unfortunately, I haven't yet said all I had in mind.]
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Thoughtcrime

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Re: The DR (for RPers only)
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2006, 10:07:52 pm »
I always kind of pictured the Death Realm as kind of a Valhalla of Yliakum, where only the most worthy could go and have the chance to be reborn. It would obviously be a place for warriors, since usually a merchant- or such-type character would not go into battle often and wouldn't have as much chance of being killed. To prove themselves worthy of being reborn, a warrior would have to go through monsters, mazes, and mischief (oh how clever I am ::)) and get out of death. It could be a places for warriors to recuperate, as Valhalla was for the ancient Norse. Therefore, it would be nicer to see more NPCs of people stuck in the Death Realm, or just people waiting for their time to be released to the world to fight some big evil.

I think we kind of belittled the Death Realm and made it into a joke. It has the possibility of many RP moments — maybe the army of the dead planning to breach the gate into the wold of the living? Maybe Orpheus-the-Enki is trying to get his lovely wife back from the clutches of death? The only thing I've seen has been the DR race, which was a one-time thing. Sometimes I stick around the DR just to make an RP moment, maybe be a Charon for the newbies (sorry, I'm having a mythology overdose) and guide them on their way back to their own realm.

So in conclusion, impatience and just sheer laziness has kept us from using the DR to its fullest potential, and I for one would like to try and fix this. *nods*

Nilrem

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Re: The DR (for RPers only)
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2006, 02:27:13 pm »
Let's try to keep giving more feedback.

Anfa has a point when she says that a quest sends you to the DR to make another step in order to complete it, and, to complete it at full, you've indeed to come back to the living realm.
This wouldn't be the first case when NPC sentences collides in some way with the background settings of the game.
But then again, this has an explanation. Probably, the one designing that quest did only want to bring more fun to the ones trying to make it, and thought about using the DR too, as a spicy effect for the quest. I won't blame the designer for that, as it was with the best of intentions.
I'll do say, however, that quests hardly can be roleplayed properly, and this one, isn't an exception. But this quest IC/OOC discussion, is off topic in here.

All seem to agree at one point. DR is a place hard to get out from (even some state hard to get into)
I've seen replies that state that, currently, the DR isn't finished, and that it will expand with time. I've no doubts about that.
BUT
Attempting to design an ingame DR as it is intended to be in the setting, would be an error, and cannot be considered an objective of design, to my eyes.
Let's assume we've a DR map, that is as hard to get out as the "real" DR is intended to be. That means that hardly anyone, when entering that place, would be able to get out. See how this collides with the original objective of the DR, that is giving the player the chance to keep playing his/her char as long as he/she wants. But, for now, let's assume that map is indeed implemented.
If a char of mine dies, and I get teleported to that map, from where you've very little chances to get out, I would have 2 options. Delete char and start a new one (perhaps same name) in the living realm and pretend nothing has happened (and for this solution, there's no need to actually implement any larger DR, as it can be done right now) or keep the char, trapped in the DR. Considering the amount of accidental (that is, non player desired) deads that your char suffers (cliffs, bugged attacks...) sooner or later DR would be populated with "trapped" chars. Oh, but I never make my char to fight, so probably I'd stick still in the living realm. Most of people uses the combat system. Chances are that, soon, the majority of chars would be "trapped" in that DR map, perfectly mimeting the extreme difficulty that exiting the DR has. In order to RP, you need the players. And if they've their chars trapped inside the DR, you'll end killing your char to RP with them. In other words, strictically implementing ingame the intended DR, would switch realms. DR would become the "living" realm (at least where action is) while the living world would be almost desert (people finding noone around, knowing that people is trapped inside the DR, if they want to play, they switch world) obviously this is such an extreme view. But I hope the point is clear.

The DR will never be, in game, as hard to get out as it's supposed to be. Period.

How to act, then? Common sense, logic, and consciousness.

Indeed, if your char dies IC (if you player, agree to your char dieing) then you've the option to RP it trapped inside the DR, or, as Under the Moon said, delete it completely. You've also the option of playing a resurrection spell (a highly skilled crystal or dark way mage on the living realm casting it) but that, definitively, isn't the rule (there can't be a big amount of skilled enough magicians, and casting such an spell wouldn't be like going to buy rat hides).

Does that mean that if your char is sent to the DR you've to delete it?
Absolutely not.
I fully understand Zorbels point, as mine is exactly the same. I too won't kill Nilrem. I know it, people knows it. He has never been into the DR, nor been killed.
And that you've the right to do, because you player ultimately decide when your char dies.

But, then again, common sense. If you find yourself in the DR, and exit, but you didn't from an IC perspective were there, simply, don't roleplay that dead. I've sometimes the feeling that certain people sees this things as "obstacles" in their RP that they've to "surpass" and that, when they do that, they become better roleplayers. I disagree with that. If your char is sent to the DR, accepting that IC and playing a resurrection later won't make you any better roleplayer, to my eyes. If your char was not meant to die, it simply didn't die.
Sometimes this can be fun, you fell off a cliff and are teleported to the DR, and then an idea pops to your mind, and you think ok, I'll RP my char fainted, and fell on the ground. But in any case, you'd never RP it indeed died and resurrected. And still, while I agree you can RP your char fainted, you're not forced to use that always. Your char died for a bug, or your distraction while talking IRL with another person, or because you went away of keyboard... whatever the reason is, it's OOC, you don't have any need (and "succeeding" on that won't make you any better) to justify that IC.
Also, please refrain from using this to play the superhero type of char. "Since I decide when my char dies, I go around like a superhero because noone will effectively kill me". That's not the point. Let's all try to act logically.

So then again, if you don't really have to, don't roleplay your char deads. Examples have been given of ingame situations. Wars are one of those situations. There have been wars played in game, some have been tried to be roleplayed. After the war's over, the reports are done, praising the value of those that fight and all. Please, let's all refrain of naming someone that died two times in a battle. Or prevent also the one telling the war story from saying he/she was also killed, but now it's telling the story...

This, as almost anything in RP, is a matter of conscienciation.

[Then again lenghty post... same rule as my previous one applies  :-X]
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Siteri Kidachi

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Re: The DR (for RPers only)
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2006, 05:46:58 pm »
There are two problems with RPing accidental deaths as fainting and then just coming back like nothing important happened:

1. People don't usually just randomly faint for no reason. You'd actually have to come up with a reason why you would faint, such as a sickness or a curse or something.

2. You still respawn back in your home city. So you have to essentially go into "OOC mode", run back to where you died, then go back to "IC mode" and say you just got up off the ground. It looks silly.

Nilrem

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Re: The DR (for RPers only)
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2006, 07:38:34 pm »
I fully agree.

I just said that, sometimes, when you've that accidental slip, it can pop you an idea.
You fainted, or you can even decide you really felt, and hurt slightly your toes. I am not saying that each time my char goes to the DR I roleplay a faint, that would be stupid, as yo well say, and it's certainly not the message I wanted to transmit in my post. If that's what came across, my mistake. I merely ignore those accidents, they simply never happened.

Seeing this "issue" with how players roleplay the dead, and having been a concern of mine, widely spread it seems (hi Ligh :D) to the whole community as a player that has been always reluctant about any DR roleplay, having seen what I saw... and indeed, having lost RP chances due to that concern, and said fame that I acquired (not really aiming to) I decided to stop trying to state my points OOCly to those that had the patience to want to listen to them, but try something else.

In that sense I created a char (prior the creation of this whole thread in this forums) to whom I assigned the job of an "undertaker" ( sort of a gravedigger in RL. The one that deals with the disposal of the corpses into the burial wells in PS, and all what is around that) with that char, I have explored the world, and sensed the roleplay around dead.
I've to admit I've seen some things that could have been better left unseen, but I also have the hope, or at least this was my intention when creating the char, that I've been able to "hit" some players mind, to think a bit more deeply how they're playing their chars deaths.
With an OOC objective in mind (player conscienciation) I used the tool I thought was going to be more effective to let the message come across, and that was no other than roleplay, but not a roleplay where I set the example killing my char (deleting it) when it really dies, but trying to find a new approach to the issue, with a job that has to exist in Yliakum necessarily, with a guild that most likely exists too, to try that, with that figure in the world, some pause would be done, and reflexions made about this topic.
I'd like to take the chance to express my sincere gratitude, to all the players that, agreeing or disagreeing IC with Belun's message (as that is his name) have taken their time to express me my support OOCly, about the idea, and the objective, and thanks also to those that have taken their time to talk a bit about it.
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Alfonso Knaf

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Re: The DR (for RPers only)
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2006, 06:09:22 pm »
One more opinion :-) :
The first big problem for me is, that, as this thread shows, there is no written rule, as what the DR should be seen. This has to be changed in a RP focused game. Not because I love rules so much, just because there has to be a common base.
My simple approach would be that the DR isn't actually the DR it may be a realm between the world of us living and the actual DR.
So whenever someone is nearly dead he is transfered to this realm, now he has to show if he has the will to live (go to the exit) or if he is to weak, so he won't find the exit and ends a little later up in the real DR. So whenever you die a engine death, you aren't dead you only are really close to it.
But why do you still have all your worldly possesions and why don't you have to search for them near your old body? Well thats simply ooc, whenever you roleplay a engine dead, you do not have to mention this...
Btw I also think that most of the deaths currently happening in PS are totaly ooc, clipping, attacking, whatever caused deaths shouldn't be roleplayed. If you are in a heavy RP situation, just telle something like you got lost - if it is in Kada El's tell you wwre on the toilet... be creativ :-)
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AThousandYoung

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Re: The DR (for RPers only)
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2006, 09:56:40 pm »
Just another case of a game that wants to emphasize roleplaying yet having game mechanics that are not compatible with that. It's tough to reconcile death making sense in the setting with having a playable game. I was thinking a Valhalla like setting could pull it off.