How to RP a Trial in Yliakum.

[zhai]

Ok, I'm posting this here in the RP Events area because this is tightly related to a current event (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=24578.0).

Given that:

- Yliakum is a civilized society. Medieval world, yes, but there is social order.

- Crimes and civilization have always had a way to meet balance, thus, in a civilized society it is for granted that there would be one "justice system".

- The settings (http://www.planeshift.it/setting_overview.html) don't specify anything related to that and maybe we can take this opportunity to discuss for this particular case and try to come up with a first practical example (that obviously would need lots of work and adjustments).

- The topic's not new and here are some (old) related ideas as reference: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=16508.0, http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=9543.0, http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=11142.0...

Now, my point is: for this particular case, what do you think would be the best way to RP this?

If we manage to trap the killer, I personally think it would be more fun to RP a trial. So here are a few ideas we could apply. This topic will affect game settings so it's better to try to reach an agreement on how it should be handled or if it should take place at all. (here's another post concerning settings I found very interesting: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=24692.0).

What I feel we could agree on is:
- How would a trial work?
- What (IC) punishments would there be?
- If we make room for this "applied" justice system, how do we keep consistency for future RPs?
- EDIT: Where should a trial take place? (thanks Siteri for the idea!)

Here are some initial ideas:

How would a trial work? In my opinion these are the roles that should be "cast":

- Someone to rule and moderate the process. It could be a judge or a group of "elders" or wise, well respected characters.

- Someone to evaluate the case objectively. In other words a jury. Having "jury dutty" could be fun and it can invite more people to participate in an event they have not been related to. Their job would be to determine if the defendant is innocent or guilty or maybe the kind of punishment that should be applied to them.

- Someone to prosecute. it could be the victim or someone appointed by the victim or "the people".

- Someone to denfend? I'm not sure about this... it would strike me more as a "modern" concept that one.


What (IC) punishments should there be? Here, I'm thinking of RP potential as well...

- Death. How about 10 "executioners" shooting arrows at the criminal? or casting flame burst?

- Prison? Where? Dungeons? A bit anti-climatic maybe.

- Banishment? Only if agreed OOC that the evil doer should disappear after the event. Same with death.

- Transmutation? How about being turned into a Groffle for a while?

- All punishments should be IC and fun to roleplay.


If we make room for this "applied" justice system, how do we keep consistency for future RPs?

- A sticky with what we agree on for future reference?

- Guild responsibility? If so, which guild? Or is it better to have a cross-guild organization? If so, what about new guilds? How could they participate?

*   *   *   *   *

Well, I hope we can come to an agreement that we can apply. I think the serial killer plot does make it important to go beyond wish lists and utopia. We should be able to RP something that would resemble justice and that would not contradict settings. If any GM or dev. team member could give their opinion on it, it'd be of great help too.

[Siteri Kidachi]

I definitely want to see a trial done, because I love Law & Order and Phoenix Wright, so it would be cool to RP being in a trial, although it's not going to be anything like either of those (although with the way PW games are biased against the defendant, I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up a lot like that!)

Hope to see some "OBJECTION" being shouted.

Also, a good place to hold the trial would be one of the conference room places in the Bronze Doors area (with the tables).

[Peacer]

i just think that we should rp IC and see what happens with our characters inteferrence and not discuss it ooc

[LARAGORN]

I think an elected pannel would workout better than a jury type trial.
Lets say a pannel of 6 or 8 of well known and respected charactures.

A deligate could stay in the tavern, and people could go to them with their nominations, for the pannel member.

The nominations and voting could go on for a few days so the people living outside the city would have time to come in and vote.

As for the council to represent each side, I do believe they would need to be volinteers with a very strong characture.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Peacer i dont think winging it and making things up off the top of your head is the way to handle this

Zhai it is a great idea and could be great fun. I think jury decided guild or innocence and judge decides sentencing. I wolunteer to act in the trial in whatever capacity i am needed. If you are going to hire a "cast" to play certain roles I suggest listing the needed roles and people put their names in.

All in all i must say conceptually this is a great rp and i would love to see it come to a fantastic and memorable end

[incidently Siteri and Zhai you make me very proud to have been your early trainer, you have done great work in roleplaying keep it up]

[miadon]

Long Time in prision then death.

[Allive]

i think it should go to trial.

[francisvolh]

I support Zhai's idea for a trial. But as a medieval world, as Zhai pointed out, something more medieval should be done, not a trial itself with elders or judges, or someone enlightened giving the final sentece, but maybe to hear the voice of the townsfolk and the families or friends of the victims. some kind of town meeting, with people shouting for justice and of course some moderator or elders to guide the thing, but the decision of guilt or incocence, i believe should  made by the townspeople. let the voice of the town be heard, something like that. that sounds medieval to me 

i'll be glad to be part of it or check it out however it's decided to be.  . Nice idea Zhai.

[Einnol]

Thinking along the lines of a jury, what if you allowed people to sign up (volunteer) to be in a pool of possible jurors.  Out of the pool, jurors could be selected to serve on a pre-determined size (8, 10, 12?) jury panel by using one of these methods:

1.  Random:  Each potential juror is assigned a number and let die rolls determine the jurors by their assigned number.

2.  Interview:  Probably more time consuming than the first option, but allows for more RP.  Let the assigned prosecutor and defense advocate ask each juror a question or two and either accept or dismiss them from jury duty.

Either way, the jurors should be as impartial as possible and not know a lot of the specifics of what has happened so they can base their judgements on what evidence is presented during the trial, in my opinion.

Now, about the punishment.  I think that if execution is used as punishment, it should be RP'ed as close to the settings as possible.  If the suspect goes to the DR, he should not be spotted in Hydlaa 2 minutes later (if ever).  I would think that if he ever found his way out of the DR, it should be closer to maybe 2 months of real time (a year in Yliakum).  In the meantime, there could be the possibility of the suspect roaming the DR as he tries to find his way out.  Possibly he could vow to get revenge to every 'dead soul' that passes by him.  Of course there is still the (likely?) possibility that he never escapes the DR and is never seen again at all.  But, these ideas are slightly beyond the scope of discussing the trial and punishment themselves.

As Siteri suggested, the Bronze Doors could provide a great backdrop for the trial.  I also see the potential for an interesting method of execution (if that is the punishment).  How about make him stand 2 paces away from the edge of the eagle's head (facing away from the fortress) and taking 3 steps forward? 

[Myrthe]

punishment is easy. take all their stuff and trias.

[zhai]

Removing the char's belongings or deleting him would be an OOC punishment and a bit unfair since we'll be punishing IC, and we can always use more bad guys . I agree, though, that he can't come back from the death realm two minutes after his execution. He can dwell in the DR for a long enough period like suggested.

I also agree with Xillix and Einnol about the juror/judges. Once we have a "casting list" we can post "inscription forms". Obviously, attendance will depend on day/time we schedule for the event and might need backups. that's why i'd keep the jury with no more than 8. I think it's best this way. Inviting "respected citizens" would be, I think, a good way to go too. This validates guild presence and acknowledges those players who have been around and contribute to RP all the time.

About the venue: if the vespers allow it, the temple does have potential to host a trial. the eight jurors in the center nook, the defendant facing them, the temple chairs occupied by the townsfolk/raging mob crying for his execution, and the judge. witnesses can stand on the other side of the nook, facing the defentant.

I like Einnol's idea of free fall from the eagle head. The execution with arrows or flame burst won't be possible until they fix all the PvP and combat bugs ( we suffer but we know it's being taken care of, thanks devs ) so this one could make a good show. Another could be "feeding him" to the ulbers by oja. the crater allows witnesses to enjoy the masacre.

[Allive]

yeah i think we should have a trial if nothing else it will allow at least all involed tell there storie and we can all hear it once and for all and it means more rp. I also in my own evil way like the idea of the ulba feadings.

[zhai]

Since the idea of a trial is appealing beyond the RP of the Killer of the Sewers, it's better to rename this thread to open up the discussion. I welcome all opinions regarding the recent events with the Thieves vs. the Vespers, the Civil Patrol and all other events that might make good use of what we can come up with.

[Kaerli]

As far as keeping the perpetrator from running through the DR in 2 minutes, respawning, and wreaking more havoc goes, how about making it so when he/she dies, he/she spawns in an area that is off the map, hence trapping him/her in an infinite loop?  (This would require GM/Dev help and is just a suggestion.)

[zhai]

Certainly, the crimes punished with the death penalty should certainly keep the character from respawning too soon. Given the medieval context, I believe punishments should be harsh (death, cutting limbs off, whipping, etc.). Of course that should depend on the crime at hand. Which should lead us to talk about:

- What are the crimes worth sending a person to trial?
Having a trial every week might wear this concept off, so by giving the law-enforcement guilds/victim of the crime the authority to punish certain misdemeanors we could bring justice ingame without burning the idea too fast. Let's say we can claim the "Right of Retribution" if we have been victim of a certain crime, which allows us to duel the perpetrator in the name of justice. This could be done by the victim or a champion they trusted.

- What punishments do we need for each case that goes to trial?

- And how is the trial to be held? (venue, roles to play, etc.).