Peace Demonstrations

[Creathor]

I was very suprised by the peace demonstrations all over the world. I was very glad to see the whole world unite for once for a good cause. I seriously don\'t know what Bush and Blair are thinking if they still plan to go to war, I think it\'s prety clear that neither one of them is going to get elected if this happens.

It looks like there\'s still hope for mankind after all

[Link]

Yeah, my family is all Bush, They are retards, they actually believe Bush will run again and win again, yeah right. I don\'t think they will be able to go to war, if they do it will be without NATO or the support of the rest of Europe. I don\'t know what is with Bush, he has a crayon in his head or something. It is like he WANTS World War III.

[Keldorn]

Bush won\'t back out. Not with all the preparations he has allready made.

What I think is really amazing, is that the whole frigging world seems to be against it, except for a bunch of high-ups who rule those countries. And they don\'t give a shit about what the people they represent think. That\'s absurd.

I think it would be democratic if you let the people decide, afterall THEY are in fact the country.

[Kendaro]

I think it is so funny that the whole world is sayiong the US has no right to go to war with Iraq. Then as they protest for peace, American Embasies are fire bombed, an American plain is shot down and its passengers are taken hostage, a terrorist troupe is discovered in Sadi that were attempting an assult on Americans in the area... The whole world sits back and says we want peace whiole the entire time Americans are being killed.

[Canute]

Whoa! Americans are being killed! I guess american lives are more important then other peoples, considering 500,000 people in Iraq died from starvation after The US and UN applied sanctions on the country.

I guess its Saddam\'s fault because he didn\'t figure out a way for his people to eat oil or sand. Having barely anywhere to grow food is no excuse! He should invent new ways to cook sand.

And having all 10 americans killed in the Gulf war! What kind of lunatic thinks of killing the important americans besides americans themselves? Who \"accidently\" killed 100 of their own troops.

It\'s not like Iraqi lives are worth anything, because one american life is worth 100,000 Iraqi.


(Notice; this is sarcasm in reply to some person with below average intelligence implying previously on this thread saying \"Americans are being killed\")

[Pegasus]

Kendaro thats just the media that presents it that way - naturally as soon as an american is involved you will see any incident in your news. If they where just local \'natives\' there wont be a single peep on your channels about it.
Beside why are the iraqis the root of all evil? only cause they got a dictator that is just as greedy for power as Bush they are not all crazy terrorists.


Link when you do a headcount of Bush voters in your family you will probably find that it is likely to have \'Uncle Bush\' for another 4 years.
Fear is an excellent way to strengthen your power *points towards germany in the 1930ths*

Edit: Hmm Canute people havent got a below-average-intelligence only cause they trust the propaganda they hear everyday - its just that you cant make up your own mind if you havent got a good access to independent media.

[Kendaro]

We could sit here and talk about the evils of both countries and all that would come of it is the two or three of us mad at each other with no outcome at all. I could go on about the UN suplies poisoned by Iraqies so to taint the UN. I could go on about Iraq using Americans in their country as human shields for their military bases. I could go on about how Sudam horded food supplies for his inner circle while his subjects and outlining troupes starved. I could then go on about how American media is private owned while others are government run and only say what their politicians allow. Then you would reply I was just biased cause that\'s all my media\'s fault. Well the same can be said about other medias. No one is more right than the other.  You can\'t say I am non intelegent cause what I know is different that what you know. You base your opinions on what you are told and I base mine on what I am told. Each will believe we are right but niether can say one is better than the other. For the exact reasons you argue against me, I can use them to argue against you. It is a no win sittuation so it ends.

[Creathor]

the only Win/Win situation in my oppinion is to get rid of both Sadaam and Bush.

[FMiddy]

Originally posted by Canute
Whoa! Americans are being killed! I guess american lives are more important then other peoples, considering 500,000 people in Iraq died from starvation after The US and UN applied sanctions on the country.

when you live in america, your damn right that american lives are more important, some of those people were friends and family, and dont blame the dieing completely on us, they do have someone to lead their country, if in fact thats what hes concentrating on, or is he busy with blowing somebody up, I dunno, lets not take the chance.

Also I suggest this thread get deleted before it gets out of hand, I\'ve already seen it happen, it will turn mature people into what will appear to be morons babbleing on about their standings on the situation and not listening to others, only flaming.

[Kiern]

Originally posted by FMiddy
it will turn mature people into what will appear to be morons babbleing on about their standings on the situation and not listening to others, only flaming.

haha, thats exactly right...its sort of like when people argue about religion, some think the others are idiots for believing in something and others think they are idiots for believing in something else...when neither are proved right or wrong

but i dont think it should be deleted, its not against the forum rules to argue about politics, although if it get sout of hand it could always be locked

[Vengeance]

I won\'t delete it as long as it stays a real debate and doesn\'t devolve into a flame war.  That is what this OT forum is for.

I\'m an American and in favor of the war, as 70% of us are.  Here are my takes on it.

a) Bush says Iraq has weapons of mass destruction.  Saddam Hussein says he doesn\'t have them.  People who are against this war are simply choosing to believe a crazy dictator of Stalinist or Hitlerian proportions over Bush--who love him or hate him has never committed genocide or used nerve agents on his own people.   By supporting Saddam, you are making a choice about who you believe and what side is right and what side is wrong.  It\'s a sad day for the world that so many people think Saddam has more credibility than Bush.

b) It has been said that Bush is only doing this for the money, or because he wants to control the oil over there.  This is really the opposite of the truth.  The USA only gets 17% of its oil from ANY Arab country, and 0% from Iraq.  The countries who get oil from Iraq, and who have the most economic ties to Iraq at this point, are who?  France, Germany and Russia--the exact three countries who oppose this war the most.  THEY are the ones who care only about money and not about morality or the safety of the western world.

It is amazing to me that the same left-wing (generalization) people who rush to the defense of baby seals and endangered whales don\'t care one iota about the Kurds being wiped out by Saddam.  He is guilty of more war crimes than Milosevic ever thought about, and he is defended and his actions justified by the people most horrified by the crimes of others.  Why is this?

My personal opinion is that much of the world is simply reacting against America doing *anything*, and not really because they want to defend Saddam.  The rightness of the American position is almost irrelevant in that context, and Saddam benefits--sitting back and laughing at the crazy westerners letting him taunt the UN over and over.

If people are really just against America, no matter who America is opposing or what crimes those people have committed, then they are not our allies and we should stop pretending they are.  Kudos to Tony Blair for standing up for what is right instead of having his ego wounded by the fact that America is more powerful than him.

If the French are so convinced that Saddam is innocent and that he is in the right on this issue, they should send troops to Iraq and defend Iraq from us nasty Americans.  I\'m sure that if an innocent country were being wrongfully invaded by France, America would defend it...  Does France have the courage of its convictions or not?  I hear those Mirages are kickass planes...  ;-)

Respectfully submitted,

- Venge

p.s. I am sure this is going to change no one\'s mind, since everyone appears to not be letting the facts get in the way of their opinions here.  Still interested in reactions though.  :-)

[Keldorn]

you know venge, we of the free western world have got these rules. And i believe somewhere in those rules it says something like that in order to start a war the other side must pose an immediate threat.
Now, as much of dictator and evil man that Sudam may be. He isn\'t an immediate threat as of now.

Those rules separate us from the \'savages\'. We just don\'t attack people cause we don\'t like what they\'ve done in the past. We are civilised. If we deny those rules we become one of them so to speak.

And what are we gonna get out of this? I garantee that after two months of bombimg and thousands of innocent lives have been wasted, Hussein will still not be captured and Amarica will leave empty handed. All for nothing.

[Grey]

This whole thing makes me sick.  The majority of Americans are against a war and no other country supports it and some even are openly aggressive to the notion.  It stinks like shit.  There is no threat, and the worst part of it is that it is enacted to defend \'our\' (I use that term lightly because although I am born and raised in America, I definately do not consider myself an American) honour.  I go to a very liberal college that even demonizes Bush for what he is allowing to happen and the problem is not that people are judging him harshly, it\'s that they are right.  We\'ve been going steady in obeying our own laws in this peace thing for the past couple decades, why must we become more of an asshole now when evenness and patience are the greatest virtues.  That\'s the end of my rant.

[Pegasus]

Let me put it this way: Both Hussein and Bush should be convicted for their crimes against humain rights. Both of them are the same - the only problem is that Bush got slightly more weapons of mass destruction than Hussein ... so who do you think is more dangerous?

Venge its nice to make a list of what Saddam did - we all know those crimes and that doesnt mean we have forgotten about them but we dont want to let Bush do the same thing to civilians.

But lets face the fact that if the US wanted to kill Saddam they would have done it already - they are happy with him cause they can start a war against him every now and then and get the parlament to raise the budget for war (which in return creates many workplaces and help some people to stuff their pockets with more money).

Let me present you some numbers: The gulf war in 1991 cost a total 60.000.000.000 Dollar - if i remember it right around 10-20% where covered by the US  ... Germany itself paid 17.000.000.000 Dollar for this war and kuwait another big chunk of it.

Estimation for this war are 200 - 250 billions - so now take a good guess why Bush wants the UN to chip in? ah you are already getting a glimps of where i am heading? ... right - it will help america to get over another 10 years without having to deal with state dept(already reflecting my opinion again but i just cant help it ).

I just say we shouldnt discuss this matter to deeply or else it will split the community (and that is what we dont want do we?). Everyone has a dark past to talk about but we all should have learned from what had been done ...

[Raya]

Ahahaha

Yet another Bush topic on the net

Here\'s my opinion

America vs Irak is like Don Quichotte vs the WindMills. Not only it\'s a waste of time and money to attack Irak, but there are other ways to solve the conflit without killing hundred of innocent people.

Regarding the peace manifestations, as an expert said (and I agree with him), those manifestation wont change USA opinion, but showed to the other contries supporting USA (Italy and England) that they better rethink their position of helping USA in a military intervention.

Finally, I am WAY more scared (and I mean it) by North Korea than Irak, because North Korea has way more reasons to get into a war, because they have absolutly nothing to lose by doing so. They suffer from starvation and bigger problems than Irak can have, plus they have the stuff to make nuclear weapons and eventually launch em on america.

Finally, to all the Bush lovers, I\'d invite you to check out a website that I particulary enjoy to read

http://www.wage-slave.org/scorecard.html

Cheers