Author Topic: Please, just stop this bullcrap.  (Read 6177 times)

zanzibar

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Re: Please, just stop this bullcrap.
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2006, 06:38:16 am »
Harassment does not belong in game... call in a GM if there's any unwanted contact.  If no GM is around, make chat logs, take screen shots, get the names of people who witnessed it, then go offline.  Go to the IRC room #planeshift-gmtalk and get help there.
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Robinmagus

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Re: Please, just stop this bullcrap.
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2006, 06:45:48 am »
Well what are you roleplaying? Basically if you roleplay you're ok, but being a common pickpocket or mass-dueler is pretty much between criminal and nuisance.


Mass dueler? A dark part of your own history Suno?  :P
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Xillix Queen of Fools

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Re: Please, just stop this bullcrap.
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2006, 06:47:56 am »
While stating what is below i want it understood that i dont expect that a game in this stage of developement is capable of fulfilling all of what i wish for, and i count on the players to bring as much of this as possible into the game world.

e‧vil   - [ee-vuh l] 
–adjective
1.   morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.
2.   harmful; injurious: evil laws.
3.   characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.
4.   due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation.
5.   marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposition.
–noun
6.   that which is evil; evil quality, intention, or conduct: to choose the lesser of two evils.
7.   the force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin.
8.   the wicked or immoral part of someone or something: The evil in his nature has destroyed the good.
9.   harm; mischief; misfortune: to wish one evil.
10.   anything causing injury or harm: Tobacco is considered by some to be an evil.
11.   a harmful aspect, effect, or consequence: the evils of alcohol.
12.   a disease, as king's evil.
–adverb
13.   in an evil manner; badly; ill: It went evil with him.
—Idiom
14.   the evil one, the devil; Satan.

The reason I offer this is because much of what is done in the name of evil does fall under the definition of evil. Suno much of what you are saying here,

“Evil guilds should maybe have a leader, someone to command a small army, or wait and plan out some sort of attack that will endanger some peoples' lives and actually make an impact on Yliakum - something that the local guards won't be able to stop. Compare this with pickpocketing.”

expresses the difference between chaotic evil and lawful evil. Lawful evil is scheming insidious uses and manipulates the law etc. Pickpockets and serial duelists are more chaotic or neutral evil. However I agree that much of what is done in PS and called evil is really just doofyness.

The Problem of evil as defined above in relation to PS is difficult to define in few words.

1.   morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.

There is no moral structure to oppose. In the real world for instance, Charles Manson may be seen as evil only because he opposes a dominant Christian paradigm (which incidentally is semi present in Yliakum due to bleed over from players to characters) that exists in his culture. There is no clear articulated paradigm to stand in opposition to in Yliakum so even “good guys” seem to react in random chaotic ways to any self styled evil.

2.   Harmful; injurious: evil laws.

Those who are committing random acts of violence and theft are fine under this definition. There are no clearly articulated laws in place, whether good or ill, no known evil rulers officially recognized. [Dark Empire has good thematic development and writing and represents a relatively mature lawful evil.] The current rarity of evil Npcs and even the current state of npc development make it difficult to have a sense of being legitimized as an evil character or even an evil guild.

3.   Characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.

Some of roleplaying this is being done, and done well, poisonings diseases and the like happen all the time in Yliakum and sometimes stir things up for a while. The danger of overdoing these things or doing them only decently and often is that is has diminishing returns over time.

Here I would like to see a crystal eclipse or something of the sort, a time of darkness for evil to coalesce around. Evil characters might accrue wickedness and actually alter the terrain near them negatively. 

4.   due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation.

Evil is a title you EARN many guilds and the characters that are in them basically just hang a sign around their neck that reads evil and assume that is enough to actually roleplay being evil (sad to say same is true for good). Evil characters need to be the best of roleplayers not the weakest. I am not being critical of anyone currently playing evil in saying this, I mean instead that now that you are “evil” you have to respect that role and it cannot be done without a sincere pursuit of knowledge of the settings. If you think of your favorite evil characters in movies they are often the best actors as well, the same should be true here.

–noun

5.   marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposition.
 
Krook, nuff said.

6.   that which is evil; evil quality, intention, or conduct.

I feel that evil conduct is rarely played well, and I feel this is primarily due to unwillingness of players to put their characters in peril to another’s story’s harm. Better planning on the part of the evil guilds and characters, as well as greater OOC relations with the heads of “good” guilds would help with this.

7.   the force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin.

Does PS mythology even contain this? Is there a force in nature which compels evil? If so is it clearly defined in a dichotomy? One thing many of us struggle with it the difference between monotheism and polytheism. In Christianity all that gets somewhat confused but basically there is god and then there is an evil force that arises from pride and challenges the established order. How does a person define good and evil when in a polytheistic mode? Much of what we would call good and evil on earth is due to a clear simple dichotomy. Good and evil is more difficult to define and much more relativistic in Yliakum because the forces players currently know about in character have elements of their personalities we would likely attribute to good and evil, but in this mythology each entity has equivalence.

8.   the wicked or immoral part of someone or something: The evil in his nature has destroyed the good.

I have seen many people play out internal conflicts of this type and a few do it very well. Again the danger of this is too many doing it poorly.

9.   harm; mischief; misfortune: to wish one evil.

Consensual stalking roleplayed and a million other evils

10.   anything causing injury or harm: Tobacco is considered by some to be an evil.

More evil locations and items would be a blessing for rpers wishing to do evil. Hydlaa should very like not be the hub of good that it now is, but Ojaveda may well be a fine place to begin to generate a “culture of evil.” This culture is needed if evil is to be taken seriously or be consequential. This raises the idea that evil turns on itself, but while this is so, even chaotic evil organizations exist. An organization wherein the strongest and most brutal rule might be a good way to get your dueling out and promote an as

11.   a harmful aspect, effect, or consequence: the evils of alcohol.

More of this would be good drunkards addicts fanatics etc . . .

12.   a disease, as king's evil.

Aye.

–adverb

13.   in an evil manner; badly; ill: It went evil with him.

As in, Evil in PS is currently evil ;)

—Idiom

14.   the evil one, the devil; Satan.

Yes please.

I was a bit rushed i will clarify later.

Kalika

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Re: Please, just stop this bullcrap.
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2006, 06:58:08 am »
definition of evil when used in ps works...maybe

but not the way it was handled today...that wasnt evil..it was rude and stupid

on both parts

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Suno_Regin

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Re: Please, just stop this bullcrap.
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2006, 11:27:25 pm »
Well what are you roleplaying? Basically if you roleplay you're ok, but being a common pickpocket or mass-dueler is pretty much between criminal and nuisance.


Mass dueler? A dark part of your own history Suno?  :P

A part in my history that happened very long ago, mind you. =P

I learn as I go.

Peacer

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Re: Please, just stop this bullcrap.
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2006, 02:49:10 pm »
hmm, per definition evil is defined as doing which isn't right, and what is right is slightly to your own opinion. That's why no one say they are evil IC, they don't think what they are doing is wrong.

therefore, what you think is completely wrong and unethical to do is evil... simplicified
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Akaye

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Re: Please, just stop this bullcrap.
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2006, 08:23:21 pm »
Everyone interprets evil in different ways. Just because you don't veiw something as evil doesn't mean that everyone agree's or has the same point of view. You can't control how people roleplay, you can only add your own sense of roleplay style. That being said, if you don't like a roleplay don't join. It's that easy.

@suno: I have heard many people call serial killers evil. Killing people is evil to most. I don't know where you get that it isn't evil. To be in a frame of mind that doesn't regret hurting and killing people is pretty evil in my eye's.
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Kezzik

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Re: Please, just stop this bullcrap.
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2006, 08:38:55 pm »
Everyone interprets evil in different ways. Just because you don't veiw something as evil doesn't mean that everyone agree's or has the same point of view. You can't control how people roleplay, you can only add your own sense of roleplay style. That being said, if you don't like a roleplay don't join. It's that easy.

@suno: I have heard many people call serial killers evil. Killing people is evil to most. I don't know where you get that it isn't evil. To be in a frame of mind that doesn't regret hurting and killing people is pretty evil in my eye's.

that or you're in no fit mental state to realise what you are doing, claim insanity anyone? :]

the killers people are trying to RP are indeed evil, they're just not doing it well, in public places, in front of a large group of people, then miraculously escape unscathed, blablabla etc. yesm, this has been said before, I'll be quiet now :3

Monketh

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Re: Please, just stop this bullcrap.
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2006, 11:27:57 pm »
Evil is not caring about the negative consequences your actions might have on others, or willingly taking actions you know are morally unjust.
Thus: All criminal activity (unless the intent was to do good (a la Robin Hood)) is evil.  Also, deliberately harming people is evil.

What you're looking for is a group of persons who are absolutely diabolical.  Of course, diabolical is much more entertaining than petty criminal activity, and it takes a more skilled individual (or group.)
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lorina

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Re: Please, just stop this bullcrap.
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2006, 03:22:04 pm »
the whole fighting thing today was stupid

i was semi apart of it...i didnt fight, i watched almsot all of it and i had no IDEA why it happened

all i konw was that ms lorina decided to harass my guild sister and me nad my mother went to her aide when we found out that our sister was outnumbered and being harassed even more, the next thing i know there is a whole group of people yelling and shouting and then all of a sudden everyone is fighting


i mena...was there even a point to any of this nonsense or were people so desperate for entertainment they jus thappened to pick on the first fenki they saw?
we were kidnapping her and yes there was a pint to it

Kalika

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Re: Please, just stop this bullcrap.
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2006, 10:50:49 pm »
the whole fighting thing today was stupid

i was semi apart of it...i didnt fight, i watched almsot all of it and i had no IDEA why it happened

all i konw was that ms lorina decided to harass my guild sister and me nad my mother went to her aide when we found out that our sister was outnumbered and being harassed even more, the next thing i know there is a whole group of people yelling and shouting and then all of a sudden everyone is fighting


i mena...was there even a point to any of this nonsense or were people so desperate for entertainment they jus thappened to pick on the first fenki they saw?
we were kidnapping her and yes there was a pint to it

then how come no one happened to mention it??

anywho bygones are bygones meh

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Sangwa

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Re: Please, just stop this bullcrap.
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2006, 04:41:57 pm »
Evil: morally wrong or bad; immoral.

Moral: of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong.

This means you are evil once you break a sort of rule that is normally taken by the people you are interacting with.

Characters who kill, kidnap and steal are evil. Most of them are evil and annoying...
The bad part about "Evil" in PS is that people seem to personificate "Evil" as a way of life. That is rather unrealistic, as few people (i.e. mentally crippled) undertake the task of simply being evil without any cause or purpose. If we take a look at the majority of people who are considered evil (in realistic enviroments) we can conclude that they do it for their own benefit, because they are lazy, because they like to feel superior, etc. Most of these people don't go around saying "Yay. We are evil." Because that would be ridiculous, and because they are being good to themselves. (Some of them may be proud to be seen as evil by others, but that is because they despise those people's conduct and way of life, not because they are being evil.)

In my opinion the worst is having some people consider that there are two sides in PS: good and evil. That thought is degrading to PS's setting, as it usually drives people to ignore PS's potential and simply engage in futile feuds.

How to stop this "bullcrap:"
  • We must understand that there are no Alignments in PS and dissuade those who try to use them
  • PS's guilds should lean over their own interests: economic, military, magic, etc, instead of being orientated towards "helping everyone" or "killing everyone."
  • Everyone should pay attention to the information provided with the webpage and guides, so we can know how to take advantage of the lovely setting we've got
  • When roleplaying people should keep in mind that the setting is supposed to be "realistic" so they should come up with reasons for doing things.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2006, 04:50:07 pm by Sangwa »
Disclaimer: This is my opinion and I can be reasoned with. I'm probably right, though.

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Parallo

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Re: Please, just stop this bullcrap.
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2006, 04:56:08 pm »
Well said. And no, before you ask I am not, I repeat not, sucking up! Good job Sangwa. I was going to make a similar post but you beat me to to it.
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Monketh

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Re: Please, just stop this bullcrap.
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2006, 05:33:49 pm »
Indeed: most evil people have rationalized their course of action to themselves in some way, and believe they are good or at least "not evil."  The number of "evil" characters who are like this is low.  For an example on how this can work, think of the Sith from Knights of the Old Republic.
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zanzibar

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Re: Please, just stop this bullcrap.
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2006, 06:53:53 pm »
There are other ways to define evil though.  Some people don't see evil as something that is social in natures; instead, they almost see "Evil" as having its own kind of power and presense and reality.  To such individuals, you don't "break the social order", you "succumb to Evil".  They basically see the rules that Sangwa speaks of as natural or God-gievn, and therefore Evil is some sort of real life energy and force, and not just something that happens when we define some else a certain way because they live by different rules than we do.
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