Dueling Etiquette

[daehaz]

There are magic duels, and there are weapons duels.

A magic duel v.s a Weapon, Magic always wins, no contest, Why, because you can shoot from far away and kill in 5 hits.

Weapon v.s Weapon, Even.

Magic v.s Magic Even.


If you want to be honorable, and if you want a fair fight, you express which duel you would like.

OR ELSE, you get a free for all.

It's obvious suno, Magic will always beat Weapons.

I used Potions to even the odds.

Why? Because it was a free for all and the man obviously didn't want a fair fight.

~~Datruth

If you seriously think that magic vs weapon always wins you need to practice your duel skills. Magic takes time to cast, and when you're casting you need to move slowly. That gives you enough time to run up to the guy and whack him. Using potions in any duel is cheating unless the players agree to it. Your posts sound as if you had the authority to rule over this when you don't. So, get a grip. You panicked and cheated and you should've lost. Next time pick your arena, state your rules of engagement before the duel and don't think that because a player "won't require any effort to defeat", you'll always win.

That player didn't do anything wrong. You did, no matter how you rationalize it.

[Karyuu]

Using potions in any duel is cheating unless the players agree to it.

It is..? >.> To me it's just another tool.

[neko kyouran]

There was a discussion about that topic awhile back karyuu.  The argument was, the way it is now, you can chug a couple hundred potions in a very very short amount of time with hotkeys, so they call it cheating.  I simply call it "using a underdeveloped game mechanic" myself.

[Drahlian]

Datruth,

Using potions in a duel is not "technically" cheating, in that you will not get kicked by a GM for using them in a duel. However, I have participated in hundreds of duel over the last 6 months (it takes a lot of duels to get 410 duel points), and the general consensus is that using healing potions in a duel is completely without honor, skill, or scruples. It takes absolutely no skill to carry 100 Greater Potions of Healing, and takes no skill whatsoever to down them with a single keypress. I've seen you around for a long time, Datruth, and you should know this by now.

I can tell you've had very little dueling experience since you think magic has the upper hand. It is very easy to kill someone who is using nothing but magic. They can't run while casting, only walk slowly, and even the strongest mages have to hit you 7 or 8 times to kill you. How hard is it to hit a practically stationary mage in the 60 seconds it takes them to cast?! I've spent many hours dueling with very skilled duelers in the Death Realm, and I can tell you quite confidently, magic-only NEVER wins against anyone who knows anything about dueling. The only time it was a factor was to pick off someone who was nearly dead from your weapons. But since 3.015, we all do much more damage, so every hit from a trained character will kill in one hit.

Now it sounds like you were not only fighting against someone who only uses magic, but also a noob. So let me get this straight... this noob was most likely using Summoned Missiles, since it takes so long to train to be able to use Energy Arrows... that means to get you to 10%, he must have hit you, what, 15 times? In all that time, you were unable to hit him just once?! Then, to top it off, after this noob clearly bested you with skill, you had the audacity and cowardice to mash your "/use greater potion of healing" key?

Yet here you are, in the forums, attacking this "horrible noob" who didn't follow your imagined rules of "no magic." You kill him dishonorably and cowardly when it sounds like he worked hard to earn a victory... then you come here and whine about it.

You seem to lump magic with potions, yet they are not even similar. Potions take a single keypress, instantly take effect, take no training to use, cost very little, and cannot be defended against. Using magic missiles/arrows takes many, many casting to kill someone as strong as surely you are, and can only be successful with a great deal of skill. Training Crystal Way is very time consuming and expensive. So what I'm saying is, potions take no skill or effort, while magic takes much skill to use, and much investment in time and trias to get even somewhat strong with.

Stop your whining, Datruth, and stop using potions in duels, particularly with much weaker players that clearly bested you any way you look at it. I'd like to know who this noob was, so I can congratulate him on his victory.

-Drahlian

[Datruth]

There was a discussion about that topic awhile back karyuu.  The argument was, the way it is now, you can chug a couple hundred potions in a very very short amount of time with hotkeys, so they call it cheating.  I simply call it "using a underdeveloped game mechanic" myself.

That wasn't the case though, i used three, that's it. I wouldn't have used a million either.

And Arrows are very fast Daehaz, after you press the hotkey on them, you can move all you want before they trigger. You do not have to stay stationary. The only part you do is the beginning and End, in between you can run like crazy, which he did.

And no, Daehaz, YOU CANNOT quickly whack a person in PVP using swords.

There is a Delay, in case you have ever dueled you know about this delay.

I agree with Karyuu though, why am i so mad at him, he could have been inherently bad and sneaky.

To tell you the truth, i don't know what his RP was, he just called me a coward outright for no good reason while i was walking away.

So again, it might have been his RP, so i shouldn't be so mad.

I'm not saying what he did was wrong, he initiated a free for all, anything goes, just like Suno said.

I reacted and used his same logic. And again, 3 potions, not a million. And i didn't hotkey them, i dragged them from my inventory. And they were only Regular Healing potions, nothing special. I used all 3 at the beginning, and then i didn't use any more.

It's not like he hit me, and i used one, he hit me, i used one. It wasn't like that. It was like this, he hit me 3 or 4 times, i was at 20%, i used 3 potions, and i went after him, he nearly killed me but i chased him down for 3 minutes.

End of story.

He choose to run away and use magic, initiated a free for all, and i responded the same way, just as suno said.

~~Datruth

[daehaz]

And Arrows are very fast Daehaz, after you press the hotkey on them, you can move all you want before they trigger. You do not have to stay stationary. The only part you do is the beginning and End, in between you can run like crazy, which he did.

And no, Daehaz, YOU CANNOT quickly whack a person in PVP using swords.

There is a Delay, in case you have ever dueled you know about this delay.

Yes, in case you're wondering Datruth I do duel a lot. Do you? Looks like you don't have much experience in dueling with magic either. As both Drahlian and I have explained, when you're casting you can't run. You can walk, yes but you won't go far. Worried about your timing? Then don't run up to your target and hit your attack button there. Do that at 2 secs of distance. Sure, it won't be precise 100% but the person won't be able to do anything if they are still casting, otherwise they will interrupt their cast, which gives you enough of a window of opportunity to attack a few good times. There you go, Whack 101. Now, you would know this if you dueled more but that's not the point. Using potions, be it 1 or 100 is not honorable (especially if you can one hit-kill and your opponent can't).

[Datruth]

Now it sounds like you were not only fighting against someone who only uses magic, but also a noob. So let me get this straight... this noob was most likely using Summoned Missiles, since it takes so long to train to be able to use Energy Arrows... that means to get you to 10%, he must have hit you, what, 15 times? In all that time, you were unable to hit him just once?! Then, to top it off, after this noob clearly bested you with skill, you had the audacity and cowardice to mash your "/use greater potion of healing" key?

He clearly used energy arrow, and his Crystal way was max. He is what i consider a pure mage, Doens't train Weapons much but has trained his magic to the full. That means CHA, INT, Crystal way, and probably END was full.
He used only 5 arrows, at most, drahilian.

Yet here you are, in the forums, attacking this "horrible noob" who didn't follow your imagined rules of "no magic." You kill him dishonorably and cowardly when it sounds like he worked hard to earn a victory... then you come here and whine about it.

I didn't just stand there smart one, I did go after him. And who keeps saying he's a noob, No one said he was. The only place he can be considered noobish is his melee skills or his Knowledge of dueling.

And what's with this aggressive language drahilian, no need to be so rude, "dishonorably, cowardly, whine about it".

Can we discuss this like humans, and not mud sling at each other. I'm sure i could call you a few words too, i choose not to though.

You seem to lump magic with potions, yet they are not even similar. Potions take a single keypress, instantly take effect, take no training to use, cost very little, and cannot be defended against. Using magic missiles/arrows takes many, many casting to kill someone as strong as surely you are, and can only be successful with a great deal of skill. Training Crystal Way is very time consuming and expensive. So what I'm saying is, potions take no skill or effort, while magic takes much skill to use, and much investment in time and trias to get even somewhat strong with.

Magic has an inherent advantage over Melee, in all cases. Imagine a fully trained Mage, starting the duel and running away from their opponoent, they are now far away from you, you turn around and you get hit with 2 arrows, you run at them and you get hit with 2 more. You are now at 20%.

PLUS, You can cast a spell, MOVE, and then when it's about to go off stand still. So NO mages don't have to stand still the whole time. I saw him do it and i myself have done that in the past to get away from NPCs.

Stop your whining, Datruth, and stop using potions in duels, particularly with much weaker players that clearly bested you any way you look at it. I'd like to know who this noob was, so I can congratulate him on his victory.

-Drahlian

Get the facts strait drahilian and stop mud slinging. We all know bad words, some choose to use them, others have a bigger vocabulary. You don't know what you're talking about, you weren't there, and this was no victory by him.

He choose to get rid of all rules by using magic, without stipulating it at the beginning. Therefore i used 3 potions at the beginning to even the odds.

And i'm sorry, but any Mage Versus a Sword fighter will have a Distinct advantage.

~~Datruth

[Drahlian]

And Arrows are very fast Daehaz, after you press the hotkey on them, you can move all you want before they trigger. You do not have to stay stationary. The only part you do is the beginning and End, in between you can run like crazy, which he did.

Datruth, it takes 30 seconds to a minute to kill a strong player with missiles or arrows. More for missiles, less for arrows. It is obvious that you have never once used magic in a duel, as you cannot "run like crazy" while casting. The moment you run, your spell is broken, though you are still vulnerable and cannot attack while the spell finishes. You can slowly walk, but not run.

And no, Daehaz, YOU CANNOT quickly whack a person in PVP using swords.

There is a Delay, in case you have ever dueled you know about this delay.

Again you are wrong, Datruth. The speed on a short sword, as you surely know, is 2.0. This means there is about a 2 second delay from when you press attack, to when your weapon hits. Considering a missile/arrow takes around 6 seconds to cast while standing practically stationary, Daehaz is correct... A sword can "quickly" take out someone who is vulnerable while casting their pea-shooter.

I reacted and used his same logic. And again, 3 potions, not a million. And i didn't hotkey them, i dragged them from my inventory. And they were only Regular Healing potions, nothing special. I used all 3 at the beginning, and then i didn't use any more.

It's not like he hit me, and i used one, he hit me, i used one. It wasn't like that. It was like this, he hit me 3 or 4 times, i was at 20%, i used 3 potions, and i went after him, he nearly killed me but i chased him down for 3 minutes.

I have a feeling you used 3 potions because 3 potions was what you needed to heal. Had he shot you with more arrows, would you have then let him shoot you to death, or used 3 more? And then three more? I'll bet he started running right after you used potions. I think I know why... he knew it was futile to try to beat you again and again and again until you ran out of potions.

If I were in your position, Datruth, I would have /yielded when I was nearly dead, and congratulated him on his skillful fighting. But that is because I value honor above winning. I sleep better that way.

-Drahlian

[Datruth]

And Arrows are very fast Daehaz, after you press the hotkey on them, you can move all you want before they trigger. You do not have to stay stationary. The only part you do is the beginning and End, in between you can run like crazy, which he did.

And no, Daehaz, YOU CANNOT quickly whack a person in PVP using swords.

There is a Delay, in case you have ever dueled you know about this delay.

Yes, in case you're wondering Datruth I do duel a lot. Do you? Looks like you don't have much experience in dueling with magic either. As both Drahlian and I have explained, when you're casting you can't run. You can walk, yes but you won't go far. Worried about your timing? Then don't run up to your target and hit your attack button there. Do that at 2 secs of distance. Sure, it won't be precise 100% but the person won't be able to do anything if they are still casting, otherwise they will interrupt their cast, which gives you enough of a window of opportunity to attack a few good times. There you go, Whack 101. Now, you would know this if you dueled more but that's not the point. Using potions, be it 1 or 100 is not honorable (especially if you can one hit-kill and your opponent can't).

How many duel points do you have Daehaz?

Let's see how much you duel, I am pretty sure i have much more than you.

And no, what you described will not work because again while they are casting they can move, only at the beginning and end do they have to stop.

And have you heard of missed slashes? These are very frequent and 2 of them can cause in a loss.

[daehaz]

Looks like you need a demonstration. Fine, add me to your buddy list. See you in game.

[Karyuu]

The moment you guys start to base your experience on duel points is the moment all hope is lost. Numbers are meaningless. Someone could yield all the time but know a lot more about duels than someone who kills their opponents. I think Bilbous raised a really good point in this thread however - does your character really mean to kill anyone who calls him a coward? That's rather extreme.

*edit*

Datruth, please use the quote tag. Reading one giant quoted mass like that is extremely difficult.

[Datruth]

And Arrows are very fast Daehaz, after you press the hotkey on them, you can move all you want before they trigger. You do not have to stay stationary. The only part you do is the beginning and End, in between you can run like crazy, which he did.

Datruth, it takes 30 seconds to a minute to kill a strong player with missiles or arrows. More for missiles, less for arrows. It is obvious that you have never once used magic in a duel, as you cannot "run like crazy" while casting. The moment you run, your spell is broken, though you are still vulnerable and cannot attack while the spell finishes. You can slowly walk, but not run.

You agree movement is allowed, well guess what, all you really need to do is move a little, remember Swords need to be within close range. And they miss often.

And no, Daehaz, YOU CANNOT quickly whack a person in PVP using swords.

There is a Delay, in case you have ever dueled you know about this delay.

Again you are wrong, Datruth. The speed on a short sword, as you surely know, is 2.0. This means there is about a 2 second delay from when you press attack, to when your weapon hits. Considering a missile/arrow takes around 6 seconds to cast while standing practically stationary, Daehaz is correct... A sword can "quickly" take out someone who is vulnerable while casting their pea-shooter.

Drahilian, you yourself said a mage could move, they don't need to run quickly away, Swords need to be in close proximity to the player to hit. You running at him and him walking to your right shoulder will cause you to miss the slash and have to turn and run again.

I reacted and used his same logic. And again, 3 potions, not a million. And i didn't hotkey them, i dragged them from my inventory. And they were only Regular Healing potions, nothing special. I used all 3 at the beginning, and then i didn't use any more.

It's not like he hit me, and i used one, he hit me, i used one. It wasn't like that. It was like this, he hit me 3 or 4 times, i was at 20%, i used 3 potions, and i went after him, he nearly killed me but i chased him down for 3 minutes.

I have a feeling you used 3 potions because 3 potions was what you needed to heal. Had he shot you with more arrows, would you have then let him shoot you to death, or used 3 more? And then three more? I'll bet he started running right after you used potions. I think I know why... he knew it was futile to try to beat you again and again and again until you ran out of potions.

If I were in your position, Datruth, I would have /yielded when I was nearly dead, and congratulated him on his skillful fighting. But that is because I value honor above winning. I sleep better that way.
-Drahlian

3 wasn't all i needed, i needed atleast 2 more but i couldn't drag them fast enough, he would have hit me.

He didn't use skillfull fighting, he was shady and didn't stay to the rules of engagement, he started his magic without warning me, which triggered a free for all.

You again assume i would have used infinite potions, in all reality i wouldn't because i would have told myself, the surprise is over now i know he has magic and now we have a fair fight.

~~Datruth

~~~~~~~~~~
edit:

Fine daehaz, have it your way, next time we're in game, we'll meet up in the DR, and have a best of 5 Duel.

Better start training now.

~~Datruth

[Karyuu]

There are no "rules of engagement" - I think you keep missing this point. Using magic without warning your opponent is fine. How is it more fair when you know he has magic? You state that magic is impossible to beat anyway, and you don't train it.

[Datruth]

There are no "rules of engagement" - I think you keep missing this point.

There are rules of engagement, althought they arn't enforced by you karyuu, consider it player rules.
I think all the players agree with this point, although we disagree when it comes to use of potions.

I say potions are o.k in a Free for all to get over the surprise magic attack.

Using magic without warning your opponent is fine. How is it more fair when you know he has magic?

Yes, because the intial surprise is gone, when you see him running away from you, you won't ask why. You already know why and know what he is about to do, you understand his technique.

You state that magic is impossible to beat anyway, and you don't train it.

THAt is a COMPLETE LIE. I'm sorry but there is no truth to that.

Magic can be beat, if you know it's coming and you have a plan. Surprise magic is harder but still possible, just very rare.

And yes i do train magic, Crystal way, and my CHA is nearly max.

Please don't make false assumptions.

~~Datruth

[daehaz]

Magic can be beat, if you know it's coming and you have a plan. Surprise magic is harder but still possible, just very rare.

*sigh* I think you're taking this a bit too personal when it's not and in doing so you are being stubborn. You can't beat someone using magic? You need practice. That's all. I can't run 10k but if I practice I will. No point in claiming it is impossible just because you can't do it.