Skills Combat System

[Faolach]

Ok... Up front, i'll just say that this would be REALLY hard to implement. It would require changing the entire combat system. But it seems like a good idea.

Here's my idea: Change combat to a list of skills. You target a monster, then click a skill to attack. You are put off balance for a second or two and can't attack. You then click another skill to attack again, etc. This would mean getting rid of the whole auto-attack system, though auto-defense would stay because it would be very hard to block AND attack at the same time. The fight just goes on like this. Same basic idea with ranging. Here's a screenshot with a basic idea of what the window for skills might look like (in the real version, the skill name would pop up on mouseover. For example, that boot at the bottom would have a name "Kick" pop up when you moused over it.)



The "basic attacks" are the attacks that everyone has ie. downwards slash from left to right. the "skills" are the special attacks that you learn through training ie. a blade twirl. the "standard skills" are other fighting skills that don't relate to your current weapon ie. a kick. The other thing that would work nicely is if dexterity/agility could be used to tell how long you are off-balance for. Also, some moves could be chained together ie. slash downwards from left to right, followed by a stab, which would put you off-balance for a longer time but do more damage.

Well, that's the idea, however hard it may be to implement. What do you think?

[Parallo]

It's a nice idea but then it makes it about player's skill when it should be about charcter's skill. What if someone with slow reactions in RL is playing a great warrior. Would the old system not be easier as when it comes down to it the fighting is about stats. Plus as you said it could be hard to implement.

[Faolach]

That's one of the reasons that the "off-balance" idea seemed so good. While your character is off-balance, you have some time to get your mouse on the button/hand on the key. It just adds some depth to the combat system and requires some skill from the player. Besides, fighting should be about player skill, not the numbers (imho). Just clicking and attacking is so easy. Deciding on skills to use and which attacks to use when is much better (like carrion fields vs. aetolia for all you MUD players out there). Also, I forgot to post my customary short-term/long-term list. Here it is, from easiest to hardest to implement:

1- add skills like blade twirling and kicking, but keep the main fighting system the same. You just click the skill to do it during the fight.
2- add the complete fighting overhaul and with skills and basic attacks, as suggested here
3- do #2 and add a special stat for balance
4- replace the health system with different body sections, which impairs your fighting. This goes with the bleed-to-death suggestion I saw a while back.

[Parallo]

True although it all depends on how long your of balence for. too long and its slow and boring, too little and you have to struggle to keep up. In retrospect I think it may work well.

[Pestilence]

Well I like the idea, but there is one flaw in what you have said so far.

Fighting should not be about playerskill

This is a roleplaying game after all were the roleplaying should play more of a role then in games like guildwars.

The fighting therefor in my opinion should also depends more on the skills of the role you play then on the skills of you as the player.

That is why I feel this idea is good but it might not suit Planeshift.

[Krann Omins]

It would be pretty 'cool' if combat was mortalcombatlike. if that sort of thing were done it would need each move do equal damage to the rest, and the damage would stay proportional to the skill rank, at higher ranks maybe to unlock new animations etc, combos--but make the amount of damage etc the exact same... in that way all you have to do is 'button-mash' to do full amount of hitting, your likelyhood to take damage would also be based on skill just like currently, as opposed to adding a block, keeping stances etc... that would avoid the whole playerskill vs rpskill question...

tho, to be honest playerskill plays a pretty big role in rpskill --an expert mage with the skills to match still needs to know the best way to move when using various ranged spells, has to know what order works best, mana consumption, when to use a potion (not to reopen the can of worms on potions, please don't take it that way --pretend i am talking about combat with a npc, or a potion of greater mana), having foresight... all those things are reliant on playerskill... so to leave things as they are its almost to say armed combat should be braindead playerskillwise, but to rp as someone who also uses magic you need more real skill to roleplay it...

[Faolach]

I agree with that. I only use swordfighting, so to train, I click on a somewhat hard enemy, then go read a book. It's really boring. Adding the element of skill would make it more interesting. Even if everyone hates the playerskill element, then skills like kicking or blade twirling could still be an option. Also, lots of games rely on the skill of the player, not the skill of the character. In fact, every game type except MMOs and some RPGs use some sort of playerskill element. "Skilled" players in this game have basically been pointing and clicking for a long time.  No offense. Adding a real skill element would make the fighting more interesting. Mages already have a system like this, with different choices of spells.

[Quitarias]

just to make a pointer some skills like kick should give you a decicive (i know its speled wrong) advantage if your enimy is on the ground you would have tobe pretty pathetic to be able to do litle dmg
also a defense/block skill would be usefull for tactics because you could counter attack the opponent after you block his hit simple and sweet the Quitarias touch    (couldnt resist)

[Faolach]

Part of my idea was that in the end, a block and an attack would be the same thing. In the meantime, however, the only skills I was thinking of were skills like a blade twirl, a kick, or jump kick+slash. These skills would be added on to the system in place now.

[Exor]

Ok the idea seems like a good one, except it really is too much of a hastle to click different buttons one after the other just to attack. What if your computer runs the game slowly so you have a lot of lag. That would make pointing to the right button a pain in the but  . I say sure some clickable skills could be implemented. Like say after training in swords at a certain rank you gain a new skill (maybe a skill where you use the sword as a sort of boomerang or maybe a triple slash?) but changing the whole battle system to click the whole time is tiresome and not very convenient to players with lagging computers.

[John80sk]

I rather like this idea.  IMO though we should simply keep the current skill system and simply have abilities be unlocked when you reach certain ranks.  It'd definately be nice to add some depth to the combat system, although I think special attacks should provide more of a situational advantage than anything else.  For example slashing with a dagger against chainmail would be rather ineffectual while stabbing with it would work quite well.  It would also be nice if attacks became less effective each time they were used, forcing people to plan their  attack combination in order to achieve the best results.  Also more realistic as if all you had to do was block a single attack eventually you'd get keen to it.  To expand on that, it'd also be sensible that if certain attacks followed others they'd be more effective, such as switching from a high slash to an upward stab to the gut.

[Xurtio]

To reply to John80sk above, I think the skills should all be innate (that is, anyone can attempt them) but your succes will be depend on your attribute (your stats, like STR, AGI) as long as your skill is 0, and your success/dmg rate will still be somewhat low compared to someone who has some training in the skill and an equal attribute.

also, I posted this in another thread, didn't notice this thread, sorry.

much like spells, these would be commands that you could link to a short cut so that you could perform them in combat with a click of a button on your traget.

Some example ideas for skills:

kick: basic combat skill, low STR req, does some damage in addition to regular combat rounds.  Boot quality decides damage.

trip: relies on AGI, knocks opponent down, temporarily impairing combat rolls

stun: relies on STR, stuns opponent temporarily, (simliair to freeze, but non-magic)

circle: depends on AGI, steps behind opponent and allows window for backstab

headbutt: depends on END, extra damage in addition to regular combat.  Helmet quality factors damage.

confuse: depends on CHA, similar to stun, but for charismatic characters.

intimidate: depends on WIL, lowers attack rolls of enemy.

[dying_inside]

I like these systems, it allows for a lot of character expansion as planeshift isnt limited to classes and such.
Also it livens up the combat ALOT. At the moment its very point click and watch. Skills give you more to do, and they add an elenent of statergy to your killing. I know this because i play another game with this type of system and i havnt gotten bored of the combat yet, but as I'm restricted to three classes I have a set perimiter, even if that is a wide one.

Having no boundries is wonderful, you do what you'd like to do and if you decided to switch to somthing else you can. Your tactics change constantly with your skills and styles.
However the NPC's would also need to be able to use skills too, buffs and spells, just keep things more balanced and  players on their toes. May not seems like such a big deal now but when you and a rogue are facing off, both nearly dead and your not hitting him, that "bloodletting" skill you learned in daggers earlier could come in useful

Just my thoughts.

[Zan]

Like people have said, I suggest we keep the basic combat system as it is but this type of thing could be used to expand on it. I'm mainly thinking on forms of martial arts being implemented, with each their own special moves and abilities. Your abilities would depend on the weapon and combat skill .. and then there could be combos, chains of abilities that can be executed one after another for even stronger effects.

All nice and sweet.

[bilbous]

This is all very nice thinking but where is the money going to come from to pay for the sensor laden modelling equipment that will make implimenting these animations effective? I am sure we have all seen how the big boys do it and it doesn't look cheap. No offence to the development team but generating smooth animations for complex actions may be beyond their abilities without access to such equipment. Any of you college age people planning on going to a gaming school where you can access this equipment and submit this stuff for credit?