In game languages

[zanzibar]

It makes sense Silly to put in a language and then ask players not to use it. I'll add a note however that English should still be the main language, and playing a character that only speaks your (anyone's) version of Enkidukai or similar, won't do.

Agreed. I like the flavour a few words can add to a conversation. That said, however, I would find it amusing to see a group of snobby enki sitting in the Kada-El conversing quietly amongst themselves in pure Enkidukai.

That's the kind of distasteful and exclusive behaviour people are hoping to avoid though.  It's like having a private discussion (group chat) infront of Harnquist, or having a loud "RP" infront of Harnquist but not letting others contribute or interact with it.

[Kalika]

than someone could politely inquire as to the meanings in conversation if they cared enough 

[Siofra]

That's the kind of distasteful and exclusive behaviour people are hoping to avoid though.  It's like having a private discussion (group chat) infront of Harnquist, or having a loud "RP" infront of Harnquist but not letting others contribute or interact with it.

I completely disagree. They would still having the conversation in public chat, and potentially others could understand if they had knowledge in the language. It would be in character with the world, whereas any group or guild chat is simplly OOC in my opinion. I have passed large guild meetings many times and wondered why a huge group of people were standing around in silence. If someone is having an loud RP in from of Harnquist and does not let anyone else interact, that is simply a bad RPer.

[Seytra]

First off, I don't think that one can actually have much of a conversation, given the limited set of words and phrases, let alone grammar.
Second, it shouldn't be overdone, as usual. Sure it's nice to drop a few phrases here and there, or to sprinkle some words into the conversation. However, the question that one must ask oneself is: "would my character actually do that?". The reason is simple: when you are brought up with two languages (one "local" one "universal"), and you talk to someone who isn't from your "local" group, would you not avoid using words and phrases from your local language, as much as possible, in order to reduce chances of misunderstandings and out of courtesy?

The way I see the NPCs in Ojaveda, for example, is that some words of the Enki tongue have migrated into their local dialect of Yliakums common tongue. I don't think they're merely unable to speak the common tongue properly (if this were the case, they'd have trouble with more complex phrases, not with the common ones like "tabei"!).

Even if it were different, it would not be good to de-facto require any player to learn an additional language simply to be able to play a specific race. If nothing else, it would more or less force players who have comparatively little time to play only the races with no own language, which we clearly cannot allow to happen.

Additionally, the use of full phrases in /say, especially if prolonged, may create the impression that foreign languages are allowed to be used in /say. A new player will be unable to see any difference between the Enkidukai language and any one of the many RL languages the player doesn't speak, quite possibly resulting in the formation of RL langauge groups. This will in turn add to the confusion.

The use in special, character- or quest-specific, occasions (like notes, etc.) is OK, but there must be a public and easily accessible dictionary at least, in order to not exclude players. It would be better to immediately provide the translation in brackets, and let the reader decide if / how well they understand it. I've come accross one player who does this (though IIRC with elvish).

Therefore, I think

As long as you're not writing out paragraphs

should be more like "as long as it's just a few words at a time".

[Darkmoon]

I think it's time I step in.

Enkien is a language I began developing while designing several hundred Enkis for Ojaveda a couple years ago.  At first, it was a simple smattering of a few words to mix into the common tongue in order for them to retain and display pride in their native culture.  It has since grown into what it is today, and is still growing.  I see nothing wrong with players using this language in-game, as long as other players don't feel ostracized by it (i.e.- using it exclusively in order to separate yourself/group from the rest).

I do come on IRC from time to time and drop a few words or phrases, which tends to cause confusionfor those who don't know and elation for those who know what it is and recognize it.  Overuse in-game is very frowned upon, but feel free to sprinkle words/phrases in your RP.

Here are some additions to what's been posted so far:

Mo samoti da rrrive topatendho - I am thankful that here you have arrived anyway.  (thankful you are here/have gotten here)
Mo dhorreti ento dhorretolo siino tonphrren - My language and your language are not similar
Ashreto-de - too bad/a shame
Noti venna dhorrhet - you don't know the language I speak
Not'Eso sebhtolo - you're welcome
Joh tiishme? - what is wrong?
Joh tiishmolo? - what is wrong with you?
Dajiil - indeed
Ajha - sure/okay
bonnhetolo - good for you
phonweh - place
jhu phonweh - this place
gwa - why
osghet - quiet
du - so/very
vaatholo - idiot (you)
vaatjho - idiot (general)
osghet - quiet
osghetholo - quiet, you; you be quiet
Taajho - stranger

This is still not everything, but represents 90% of it.  Have fun. 

[Siofra]

Here are some additions to what's been posted so far:

Wonderful! Thank you Darkmoon.

[Arka]

I for one, am all in favour of developing in game languages - my character is a linguist and inherited several notebooks from her mother on the 'lost' language of the Stonebreakers. So when I pick up smatterings of Enki or Elvish (as I have in talking to other characters) I am delighted - it adds to the realism for me.

There are several of us now that have brief conversations (in /tell) completely in Stonebreaker, there are also stories and songs written in Stonebreaker. I occasionally drop small phrases in 'open' speech, like 'Garamdor' (Thankyou) or 'Dol Garartth' (Good luck)

The logic is that we all come from different races, with different origins. Over time we will adopt the dominant language, Ylian in this case. But culturally we will have retained sayings and phrases from our hertage - this is one of our differences, as is our appearance, our psychology and our physical attributes - part of what makes this a diverse society. Language defines culture. Having the option to learn your ancestral language can only deepen your commitment to your race and build greater rapport between you and your IG character. This has to benefit RP, rather than distract from it.

As for Stonebreaker ('Pel Perrakithor'), the dictionary now has 500+ words and is still being developed, and there is a fairly full grammer structure. Those of you who are interested might want to PM me - I haven't gone 'fully public' with this as I wanted it to be more complete and I can't cope with mass teaching (although I have about 10 students in game who are making good progress).

I showed Talad the dictionary altough it was in the early stages then and he expressed some interest.

@Darkmoon - I'd like to exchange notes with you and will PM you my sources.

Let's keep an open mind on this - a lot of people are having a whole load of fun with this.

Dol Felim (Joy to you all)

Arka Garam
Praesidior and Head of Faculty, Language and Culture

[Peacer]

I've been speaking elvish for a long time now... the first one to use an in game language. (I think.)

The language is tolkien, a worked good worked out language. Until a lost book of yliakish elvish is found I will continue using this ^^.

aaye, oio naa eleala alasse' sut naa lle umien?

quel diola lle

namaarie ar' quel marth edan

[Akaye]

Absolutely awesome Darkmoon! Love the language. I have notice these enki phrases around lately and have been meaning to find out what they mean but love how they enter my roleplay. It isn't over done and it is very fun ... something new ... and something us players who have been playing planehsift awhile can appreciate because of it's ablities to add to roleplay.

I highly recommend that you trade notes with Arka as she has been working hard with others to create a dwarven language and has been successful with it.

[Hadfael]

It is always possible to develop sub-cultures, dialects, slangs, tongues, customs and such. It helps to feel part of community to know them.
Why not encouraging them?
To develop some kind of 1337|\|355 is not really the best thing to do in order to have a friendly welcoming community.
If the community becomes too communal or clannish there is little need to share a common server.
It is already enough to call people n00bs when they are only newcomers.

See the potential and evaluate the risks.

Don't forget that the main purpose of language to transport information from the one talking to the one listening. Trying to catch the listeners attention by hidding you message one thing. So unless you want to use cryptography in your dialogs you better use the common language.

[Peacer]

It is always possible to develop sub-cultures, dialects, slangs, tongues, customs and such. It helps to feel part of community to know them.
Why not encouraging them?
To develop some kind of 1337|\|355 is not really the best thing to do in order to have a friendly welcoming community.
If the community becomes too communal or clannish there is little need to share a common server.
It is already enough to call people n00bs when they are only newcomers.

See the potential and evaluate the risks.

Don't forget that the main purpose of language to transport information from the one talking to the one listening. Trying to catch the listeners attention by hidding you message one thing. So unless you want to use cryptography in your dialogs you better use the common language.

I do it because My character honours the elven traits and the tongue. and I usually put the translation in brackets, sometimes I don't maybe because I don't have time to type it. And sometimes I forget, other times I do it with someone I know who is very IC most of the time. Else most of the times I do put it in brackets everyone seems to understand... and I have put in my description that my character may speak elvish some times, and that is up to that player to decide if his character can understand it or not.

[drah]

In most cases where I've seen Enki use their own tongue, it's typically been the odd line here and there... and most commonly.. as a greeting or a farewell.

I've also noticed that Peacer, Siofra and others often post the english translation (in brackets) along with it when there are others around who are unlikely to know that particular language being spoken.  Thankfully

Still.. I'm going to try to remember some of the words and phrases... just so my Enki can be more Enki-like.

[miadon]

As I mentioned earlier the months in game have their own language inserted in them, its mainly a mixture of language from our own world and in game world. This is just my observation and understanding, some of it may be wrong, some of it is right.

Month - prefix - equivalent - meaning\reason

Unodin - Un\o - Un - as in one - (1st month)

Byari - By - Bi - as in two - (2nd month)

Treman - Tre - Tri - as in three - (3rd month)

Kravaan - Kra - ? - something to do with krans??? :s

Quintahl - Quint - quint as in the five - (5th month)

Azhord - Az - n\a - simply to do with the harvest season and AZure sun and the symbol for this month: AZriim (a symbol of a sun) so also comes from: AZure sun.

Ylaaren - Yl - ? - something to do with yliakum?

Dwanden - Dwa - n\a - to do with dwarves, symbol for month is about forging.

Novari - Nov - Nov\n - as in nine - (9th month)

Yndoli - Yn - ? -  one unit of ten - (10th month)

[Parallo]

As I mentioned earlier the months in game have their own language inserted in them, its mainly a mixture of language from our own world and in game world. This is just my observation and understanding, some of it may be wrong, some of it is right.

Month - prefix - equivalent - meaning\reason

Unodin - Un\o - Un - as in one - (1st month)

Byari - By - Bi - as in two - (2nd month)

Treman - Tre - Tri - as in three - (3rd month)

Kravaan - Kra - ? - something to do with krans??? :s

Quintahl - Quint - quint as in the five - (5th month)

Azhord - Az - n\a - simply to do with the harvest season and AZure sun and the symbol for this month: AZriim (a symbol of a sun) so also comes from: AZure sun.

Ylaaren - Yl - ? - something to do with yliakum?

Dwanden - Dwa - n\a - to do with dwarves, symbol for month is about forging.

Novari - Nov - Nov\n - as in nine - (9th month)

Yndoli - Yn - ? - one unit of ten - (10th month)

Wow! I didn't even notice. Nice! Good job! 

[zhai]

I'm all for developing in-game languages. The phrases provided in Enkidukai tongue so far are great and although they don't allow a fluid conversation (maybe for the better), if it is still work in progress I wish to volunteer, so feel free to contact me. I'm sure the community can rise up to the challenge and help out with a little creative organization, say for example phrase or particle making, given certain guidelines. The work of volunteers could then be revised, edited and integrated and bam, a sticky is born. Same goes for other languages that can take place in-game.